How strong?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.

How strong a (gestalt form) werewolf should be?

Like a human of the same size/build would be
9
17%
Pick up a pony
12
23%
2 - Doesn’t really care either way
20
38%
3 - They’re pretty cool I guess, but they aren’t an obsession
9
17%
4 - I like werewolves a lot but wouldn’t want to become one
2
4%
 
Total votes: 52

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How strong?

Post by Merrypaws »

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before. Please direct me to appropriate thread if there allready is one.

How strong you think a werewolf should be? I think we all agree that they are stronger than an average Joe, but how much stronger? Talking about the gestalt form, of course.
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Post by Short Tail »

I think they should be able to pick up a small car, but they should be strong enough to pick up a horse. yeah that sounds about right to me
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Post by Renorei »

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... 57b2d3fb54


This thread covered this topic already.
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Post by NarnianWolfen »

I think they should be strong enough to lift a small car, but not CARRY it. They'd need someone else to balance it cos a car is an awkward thing to carry, like trying to carry a big screen tv. One guy might be able to lift it, but he'd need someone on the other end to stabilize it.
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Post by Renorei »

Yeah, cars are pretty cumbersome things. :D
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Post by Figarou »

You don't need to be super strong to lift a car. I do it all the time.

*picks up Matchbox car*

See? :jester2:
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Post by Fenrir »

oh 2 can play at this. You can lift that excrutiatingly heavy match box car, but can you throw it.
*throws match box car at Figarou*
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Post by Vuldari »

: off topic :

...you are bringing back painful memories from my childhood. Tossing Matchbox cars isn't funny. My bratty little brother used to do that when he was in a bad mood. ...those don't need to be thrown hard to draw blood. ...and he usually aimed for my head.

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: on topic :

I didn't vote yet becasue I'm not clear on the context.

My answer would be different depending on the origin/setting of the werewolves existance.

What I expect of:

Werewolves in Freeborn: -option 1.5. Impressively strong...but ponies are heavy. Could lift a pony, but is still difficult, and could flip a car or small truck over easily, but not lift it entirely into the air.

REAL Werewolves. (If there was such a thing): -Option 1. Only as strong as thier musculature makes them. ...no super strength.

Werewolves in an Action film/ Videogame/ Comic book (graphic novel)/ cartoon series: -all of the above. I like the full range, from mysterious "lightweight" werewolves to rampaging SuperWolves.
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Post by Renorei »

Don't forget about the other thread that dealt with this issue.


(as far as context...I think it's most likely for Freeborn)
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Post by Vuldari »

Ah...but in the other thread, I think that someone said we were NOT speaking about Freeborn, but general preference instead.
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Post by Renorei »

Vuldari wrote:Ah...but in the other thread, I think that someone said we were NOT speaking about Freeborn, but general preference instead.

hmmmm...I don't remember. I was just pointing out that there was already a thread for this topic.

As for me, general preferences and what I want to see in Freeborn are the same thing. I don't have different criteria for werewolves when they are in different movies, books, or comic books. I have the same thoughts about what they should be like for pretty much everything. So to me general preference vs. what should be in Freeborn doesn't matter much, but I can see how it would to you. Apologies. :D
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Post by Terastas »

We did have a previous thread, but... Well, the poll options in this one are a little more variable.

I'm not sure about picking up a pony, but I chose that option because I think the werewolf gestalt should at least be somewhat stronger than the human form.

My reasoning is that there have been plenty of reported instances of normal human beings exhibiting additional strength in times of need, lifting cars off of trapped loved ones and such. What I figure is that it's not so much our inability to manage such feats as it is our inability to endure the tension/pain involved in these acts, at least not without some incentive that outweighs our physical tensions.

Werewolves, on the other hand, have enhanced regeneration, which may allow them to more thouroughly endure said tensions and perform at a higher capacity under normal circumstances. A werewolf could certainly flip a car over (or turn a hard-top into a convertable I suppose), but unless we're talking about a go-kart or a Geo Metro, I'd draw the line at lifting a car over his head Superman style.
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Post by Vuldari »

Terastas wrote: A werewolf could certainly flip a car over (or turn a hard-top into a convertable I suppose)...
Car tops are not exactly held on by a bit of elmers glue. It would take an incredible display of super strength to rip two welded chunks of metal apart with ones bare hands (paws.) Image

...but yeah...lifting one end of a car up would be plausable...but holding it above the head would remain the realm of Superman and the Incredible Hulk. ...not your "average joe werewolf".
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Post by Stone Wolf »

umm... it isn't hard to brake a weld... even a good one at that... I know.. I've done it before....
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Post by Trinity »

not to mention that most of today's cars are not made entirely out of metal, and have been -designed- to crumple and crush in order to take more of the impact enrgey out of a crash incident.

Now if they are made of metal, newer cars are made out of an aluminum hybrid composite metal.

If you are talking about, ya know, classi cars, yeah solid sheets of metal would be heavier and harder to damage. Soild metal frames would also add to the weight.

But even my DAD, who has three slipped disks in his back and isn't in the best of shape, has moved cars in a fit of rage. Its all about leverage really.

A pony on the other hand is kicking and biting and trying to get away. Changing the center of gravity on itself constantly, thus makign it difficult to handle.

As for weight wise, I think that with the hybrid form of the wolf, they'd be more able to rip and tear into things with the neck, jaw, and fore claws. Maybe a good jumping distance too.

But for lifiting, tossing and throwing, unless it was with the jaw+neck muscles, it would go as far, IMO.

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Post by Vuldari »

There is a device that rescue workers use, commonly known as the "Jaws of Life". It is an incredibly strong claw-like machine which is used to force gaps open, and to cut metal to help people escape from car-wrecks and the like. It NEEDS to be very strong, because a great big pair of hand cutters and a jack (even with the added leverage they provide) would not be sufficient to rip apart and/or bend the car parts quickly.

Sure...parts of an average car roof could easily be torn off, even by a wimp like me, but ripping the whole top off in one big chunk would be another matter.

On the other hand...if you were to give a person/werewolf a full minute or five to work at it, I imagine one Could remove a good deal of the cars top, bare handed. ...just not in one mighty tug.
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Post by vrikasatma »

Humans can overturn a car — you see it in violent protest demonstrations all the time. But they have to work together as a team and utilize the power of physics — rocking a car back and forth until it gets air on one side then using that upward momentum to flip it up and over.

Once in my crazy salad days I helped move a car. The four of us got one at each corner, urrrrrrggggghhh, picked it up and moved it out of the way. it was a little compact car, we only managed to lift it two or three inches off the ground and I'm surprised none of us ruptured any internal organs, vessels or bones. But we did it. Heh! Crazy kids...Anyway, for a werewolf in gestalt to be five times as strong as the average semi-hale twentysomething, makes sense to me.

As for the pony...I saw a pasture fight between a half-Arab gelding and a mini. The former grabbed the latter's neck in his teeth and threw the pony ten feet away, spinning her like a frisbee. He would have killed her if we weren't right there and caught a hold of him and my horse hadn't run over and got between the gelding and the pony to protect her [beaming with pride...what a gooood boy :)].
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Post by Figarou »

Hmmmm..I know adrenaline has been mentioned several times.


What would be the case here? Would adrenaline make the werewolf lift the car over its head a lot easier?

I know adrenaline does incredible things to the human body.

How about the werewolf when it comes to strength.
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Post by Trinity »

I don't see a werewolf being able to easily lift something over its head. Biological make up of teh super structure ( bones ) and the musculature of teh thing wouldn't make it easy. Gorillas can do it I'm sure.

But they have a different phsyical build then a werewolf would.., unless you want your werewolves to LOOK like wolfy gorillas. :P

Its all about how the shoulders are built.

Even if it were w more human hybrid, with the ability to lift soemthing over its head.., i don't see it tossing cars. Small copmpact s maybe something they can lift. up....

OR, it could be a case by case, where some werewolves are just "built better" then others. *shrugs*

The hybrid anatomy, even with a more human like frame, wouldn't offer as much strength as some are suggesting ( IMO of course ). More then your average human yes, but a lot more? eh..,

One of the reaons why so many predators are scaryy, isn't just the fact that they are stronger then us physically, but they are stronger in ways that we have no natural defenses against. A Wolf could feasiblay snap out arm bones in half with a bite. They can easily rip the flesh from our bodies.

Add that to a thinking human like form, on the same level of a human thought process that is..., and you have one scarry, and strong, mo-fo. o.O Using the brian in additon to the strength can create more damage. A well placed srtike does more then a wold swing does after all.
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Post by Vuldari »

The capacity for one to lift something changes drastically, depending on how far the object must be held from the body's center of gravity.

Take lifting a very heavy box, for example. If you try to reach out and lift it with your arms fully extended, it is unlikely that you can get it even an inch off the ground. However, if you get right up next to it and try to lift it with it pulled right up to your chest, you will have far greater luck.

Likewise with a team of four people lifting a car. (Which I've seen) in that scenario, each person stands with their body touching the side of the car, and then they lift that portion straight up, just like lifting a box. However, lifting a car single handedly would require one to spread thier arms wide to balance the large, uneven object, thus drasically reducing thier ability to support that weight (without snapping off the outstreached limbs).

So...standing at one corner and lifting really hard and fast (with enhanced strength) could allow one to flip a car up and over, perhaps even an inch or two off the ground, allowing some travel...resulting in the very impressive feat of a tumbling automobile. However, even with the equivilant strength of five normal humans, balancing an object that large and heavy on ones own is just not feasable. Also...when the object you are trying to move weighs considerably more than you, the laws of physics make achieving that goal considerably more difficult...as when you push or pull on that thing, unless you are braced against something even heavier, you will only succeed in moving yourself around instead of it, regardless of how impossilbly strong you may be. (Comic Book Physics LIE.)

The Arab was able to toss the Mini like that becasue it weiged at-least as much (the more the better) as the smaller horse. Since a Werewolf weighs considerably less than a Pony or an automobile, it is higly unlikely that one would be able to toss either "like a frisbee".

Assuming the person/creature HAD the strength neccesary, it still would not really be possible unless they got underneath the car somehow and lifted straght up from directly under the vehicles center of balance/gravity, effectively bracing oneself against the the entire earth.
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Post by Trinity »

*nods*

I would see the wereolf bulk as being at least as much as a pony ( NOT a horse ), if not the same sort of mass as a gorillia ( maybe more then a pony and almost as much as a horse? not sure. Gorillias are built heavy. ).

Muscles weights more then fat, and bone more then both. Since the wereowlf ( in teh movie ) is gaiing some extra mass, they'd be at least heavier and more muscled then ayour average human.

The question then is.., how much more?

As this, *points above* is directly proportional to how much one can shove around. :)
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Post by vrikasatma »

Like the man said, it depends entirely on *how* you lift.

To use another horse example...

I saw a video of a man who did a liberty act with two full-grown Andalusian horses. He was fairly buff, not hugely so, but definitely of the weight-lifting frame. During the act, he did something that just blew me away: he got under the horse, between its front legs, put his arms around the legs, his legs under his centre of balance, and <i>lifted</i> the horse's forepart off the ground! :jawdrop:

No, the horse didn't freak out: he was obviously very very well-trained and the human had established a good rapport with him. The look on the horse's face was something like, "Oh, this is fun. I get to ride for once!" :lol:

The way the human body is jointed, I would imagine a stunt like that would be very doable. It's the getting there — the kinetic strength required to snap the joints into position — that's the tricky part.
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Post by Vuldari »

Trinity wrote:Muscles weights more then fat, and bone more then both.
Bone is very, very light...it floats even (unless it fills with water).

As for the mass being equal to a Pony or a Gorrilla...that is a matter of personal opinion, based on your individual peception of how BIG a werewolf is, so I can't really agrgue or dispute that.

Muscle IS heavier than fat, though, so a heavily muscular Werwolf would be very heavy, and therefore have far more leverage to work with, on top of greater strength. I think that is why the "strongest man in the world" champions look so bulky and big in the middle, and not so much like the Mr. Universe guys. You need more "bulk" if you are trying to move alot of weight around.
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Post by Lupin »

Vuldari wrote:
Trinity wrote:Muscles weights more then fat, and bone more then both.
Bone is very, very light...it floats even (unless it fills with water).
Where are you getting that? Bone has a specific gravity higher than water (1.7-2.0) and would usually sink.
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Post by Trinity »

Bone is also made up of holes in its center. Not as much as a birds, but its there.

While alive it typically has added "weight" in the form of marrow. :)

When "dead" and well dried, it can float, if its center is large enough to hold enough air to for displacment to occur. As long as teh air remains, it floats. If it fills with water it sinks fast ( cause its heavy ). Physics of displacement. *shrugs*

Its why a totally iron ship made of cast-metal, three feet tick on all sides, can flaot on water. Don't believ me? Talk to my Physics teacher. *points to... general direction of her college*

But over all bone, I still say , is heavier then muscle.

WHY do you think steak or any form of red meat with bones Costs More? Its because it goes by weight. :) My mom taught me that. ;) *chuckles* A leg of lamb costs more then a boneless roast of lamb of the same size. Ribs are typical of this. If you take the same amount of meat, and compare it to the pork ( or beef ) ribs of the same size.., the ribs would cost more.
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