Transmission and Turning process

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
Post Reply
Tock
Pack Member
Pack Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:40 am
Custom Title: Dark Moon, the time of humanity.
Gender: Male
Mood: Indifferent
Location: Australia

Transmission and Turning process

Post by Tock »

I've always wondered, what do other people think of the classical Hollywood stereotype of biting as a transmission, followed by a suspenseful wait for the next full moon, and then a drawn out and painful transformation sequence.
So, how do your werewolves transmit the disease, if at all, and what is the turning process like? Is it painful, is it quick, does it take place at the next full moon, does it happen after a certain amount of time?
"Sometimes, when the moon is full, I feel invincible..." -- Markus
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Terastas »

Just so you know, these are just my answers based on what I wrote in Inhuman. They may or may not reflect the views of the Pack overall.
Tock wrote:So, how do your werewolves transmit the disease, if at all,
Predominantly through biting and scratching. The virus is only transmissible through blood, but a werewolf's gums and cuticles bleed during the shift, so bites and scratches are infectious because they have trace amounts of blood in their mouths and under their fingernails.
Tock wrote:and what is the turning process like?
The new virus's host doesn't automatically become a werewolf, so to speak. The virus instead undergoes a conditioning stage, which typically lasts three to four weeks.

Phase 1: Adaptation. The virus (for lack of a better word) tours the body and familiarizes itself with the host DNA. The host shows no symptoms during this phase. Typically lasts three to seven days.
Phase 2: Purification. The virus overrides and reconditions the immune system. It begins by "flushing out everything it doesn't like," the symptoms of which are vomiting and diarrhea, as well as dehydration if the soon-to-be werewolf doesn't take in enough fluids during that time. The "trigger-happy" immune system is a permanent symptom, but the initial "cleansing" stage generally only lasts for a day or two. A werewolf's increased healing starts to develop during this stage.
Phase 3: Chemical adaptation. The virus will begin "modifying" the host from a human into a shape shifter. Both the chemical and physical adaptations occur (presumably) at once, but the chemical adaptations surface (and pass) sooner. The body's chemical components are altered (they think) to that of a shifter. Symptoms are most prevalent in the brain and are generally limited to headaches and dizziness, but can also include strange dreams, hallucinations and impairment. Other symptoms include blurry vision, unusual taste sensations, twinges and muscle aches, restlessness and "skin crawling" sensations. This can last anywhere from a day to a week.
Phase 4: Physical adaptation. The host's actual physical body transitions from solid human to shape shifter. Moderate to severe bone and muscle aches, spasms and "poltergeist symptoms," such as feeling like one's arm is being pulled at and twisted. The host is only severely disabled for one day, but the symptoms linger and resurface for a week.
Is it painful, is it quick, does it take place at the next full moon, does it happen after a certain amount of time?
The shift is incredibly painful, so much so that it can be fatal if it occurs while the werewolf is weak, injured, or not fully developed into a shape shifter. Whenever a werewolf intends to infect someone, they typically do so a few days before the full moon to maximize the newcomer's chance of survival, IE: letting the first full moon pass over while the soon-to-be werewolf is still in Phase 1 so they can shift during the second. The first (involuntary) shift can last up to ten minutes; self-induced shifts can (but don't always) take half that time.

The first shift takes place at the next full moon. Nobody knows why, but the theory is that an already-existing chemical reaction that humans get by looking at the full moon (werewolves often describe seeing a "light at the end of the tunnel" while shifting) which triggers the shift. Since the human body has no capacity for a "shifting reflex," it occurs all by itself regardless of the werewolf's input. Once they live through the first shift, however, they become familiarized with the process, and gradually may learn the "reflexes" that allow them to suppress or force a full moon visualization.
Image
User avatar
Scott Gardener
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:36 pm
Gender: Male
Mood: Excited
Location: Rockwall, Texas (and beyond infinity)
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Scott Gardener »

In taking a hard science approach, I ended up dropping the idea of the full moon altogether, having that simply being a (mostly Hollywood) myth.

Given that a virus needs to replicate often enough to take over a body made of ten trillion cells, but must replicate in a way that does not destroy a significant enough number of these cells in the process, I made a number of educated guess assumptions and came up with an incubation period of 8-14 days until the first shift. Someone who shifts in eight or nine days from the initial infection either got a huge bite followed by prolonged slobbering licks or was bitten in numerous places at once--perhaps by a whole pack, meaning the person was either both very lucky and unlucky at the same time, or the pack wanted that person converted. 14 days, or maybe even 15-16, but probably not any longer--is for an inoculation that was just enough to seroconvert--an accidental needlestick by a health care worker, or one night with someone, without using protection...
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
User avatar
Berserker
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:11 pm
Gender: Male
Location: GA

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Berserker »

I like the idea of a bite or scratch transmitting lycanthropy, along with the classic Hollywood tropes of waiting anxiously for the full moon, slowly gaining more wolf-like characteristics and foibles of personality until the fated moment of transformation. The transformation itself should be difficult, if not painful: the transformation is not only literal, but symbolic of an ultimate evolution into a new state of life (either beautiful or terrible.) Such a life-altering change shouldn't happen easily; that cheapens the impact of it.

However, I shy away from hard scientific or purely medical reasons for the transformation. The majesty of the creature is that it is preternatural; it's origin is not fully understood and is presumed to be mystical, but could also proceed from some strange and unexplored aspect of nature. Lycanthropy as an identifiable organism makes the werewolf less astonishing to me.

I far prefer the deliberation of a curse as the cause of werewolfery (or a blessing, if you want to be post-modern about it.) A skilled practitioner or another werewolf can transmit the transformation not just through a bite or scratch, but from a manifestation of sheer will itself. For example, a foreboding stranger on a dark street captivates you with an evil eye; his stare pierces into what could only be your soul, and that night, a dreaded metamorphosis begins. Such a thing seems far more interesting to me than hypodermic needles and petri dishes.
Image
User avatar
Uniform Two Six
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Hayward, CA

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Uniform Two Six »

The scientific/medical explanation works very well in a horror setting, however. It's perfect for a science-run-amok story ala Resident Evil. I'm drawing a blank at the moment, but there's a novel by *somebody* Kitteredge where there is an attempt to "unlock the secrets of lycanthropy" via the old secret laboratory trope, and of course, things go horribly awry. Good book.
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Terastas »

Berserker wrote:I like the idea of a bite or scratch transmitting lycanthropy, along with the classic Hollywood tropes of waiting anxiously for the full moon, slowly gaining more wolf-like characteristics and foibles of personality until the fated moment of transformation. The transformation itself should be difficult, if not painful: the transformation is not only literal, but symbolic of an ultimate evolution into a new state of life (either beautiful or terrible.) Such a life-altering change shouldn't happen easily; that cheapens the impact of it.
True. For me, one third of the horror of becoming a werewolf is the anxiety. Chris Rock once said that he damn near went mad waiting five days for his AIDS test; the results for the "lycanthropy test" can take five times longer.

Another third of the horror is that it's symbolic, not just of evolution, but of the unknown. A lot of people have preconceptions about what it will be like to live as / become a werewolf, but just like the expectations they had about adulthood when they were kids, those beliefs are usually way off from the truth. There is no accurate way to describe what it feels like to have your body distort into another form altogether in an instant, or what it's like to experience the world with a set of eyes, ears and nose different from the one you were born with, so even veteran werewolves who have gone before you can't give you any more assurance beyond the knowledge that whatever is going to happen can be lived through.
However, I shy away from hard scientific or purely medical reasons for the transformation. The majesty of the creature is that it is preternatural; it's origin is not fully understood and is presumed to be mystical, but could also proceed from some strange and unexplored aspect of nature. Lycanthropy as an identifiable organism makes the werewolf less astonishing to me.
Something doesn't necessarily need to be supernatural for it to have that affect. Even if there was some sort of scientific explanation to it, Lycanthropy would, if exposed to the mainstream, turn the scientific community into a frenzy. It would be like the organisms that were discovered which had arsenic instead of phosphorus in their DNA -- it would stand in contrast to even the most basic principles of our present schools of thought and force the scientific community to completely rewrite its theory of life (before the religious nutcases pounced on it and used it to discredit them).

While I absolutely agree that Lycanthropy is a curse (I'll get into that in a minute), I'd have to draw the line at something extranatural like transmitting it via a gaze. To me, that would be going too far in the opposite direction: Denying a possible scientific explanation, but outright confirming a spiritual, potentially religious connection. Lycanthropy shouldn't stop being symbolic of the unknown after the werewolf has shifted for the first time. Part of what I suspect would make it so unsettling is that even the oldest, most seasoned of werewolves don't even rightly know the basics of the basics; don't know how much of (if anything at all) lycanthropy is natural and/or supernatural in nature. So even though Lycanthropy completely defies the natural order of things as we know it, I still think there should be some semblance of natural order to Lycanthropy itself.

There should presumably be some sort of scientific explanation to Lycanthropy, albeit nothing that "needles and petri dishes" could ever hope to provide.

My own take on lycanthropy as a curse is not literal, but just in the sense that, one way or another, something is going to absolutely suck about it. If you're newly infected, the curse is that you're going to painfully transform into some sort of furry man-wolf abomination, the process of which might drive you insane if it doesn't kill you first. If you survive, good for you, but now you're no longer human. Everyone is suspect; before you let anyone into your life, you have to ask yourself the same questions of them that your predecessors must have surely been asking about you. And the immortality? That might be a perk, but if you think watching the world pass you by and everyone you know and love grow old and die isn't such a big deal, consider this: Lycanthropic healing isn't instantaneous, therefore it's still possible for a werewolf to die. I (and the werewolves in my writing) tend to see lycanthropy, not as a promise that they will live forever, but a promise that their eventual death, whenever that may be, will be very painful and very bloody (because if it were anything less, they would live through it).

Something doesn't need to be a curse in the literal sense for it to function like a curse. But I do agree that it functions like a curse.
Image
Alteron
Pack Leader
Pack Leader
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:32 pm

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Alteron »

User avatar
Volkodlak
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:05 am
Gender: Male
Mood: Bored
Location: Slovenia

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Volkodlak »

My take:

Virus is extremly toxic so bitten needs too surivive first 30min and is only transmited trought saliva and it also needs too be in active mode, but if its not bittens body will discard it and virus is only active when werewolf is changed so if werewolf in human form bites you would not be infected. If Bitten surivives first 30min his body will surivive the change. After 30min things would calm down only things that would be out of place is light body pain during the night and more food consumption, but severity of this depends on how far away from full moon the bite was, If you were bitten less than 20 days before full moon you skip this full moon and you would fell less pain and eat less food than the one who was bitten 20 before full moon.
First change is extremly painful and some pass out after change is completed, but others are lying on ground for about 5 minutes exsousted and waiting that pain goes away then they normaly freak out, but after this only second shift hurts, but not as much as first and other shift are painless.
Last edited by Volkodlak on Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Meeper
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:07 pm
Custom Title: Friendly Neighbourhood Meeper
Gender: Male
Additional Details: Wannabe mad scientist.
Mood: Busy

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Meeper »

I seem to have glossed past this thread. may as well toss in a thought dump while I'm here.

I generally concur with the bulk of Scot's basic transmission/incubation theory. Two things I'd add are: The specifics of the infection vectors, which I have down as either a two pronged or multi-pronged vector, where components parts for successful transmission arrive in different ways. For example, one or more intra/extra-cellular viruses, and the proverbial "hair of the dog" providing genetic material, plus some other magic ingredients that I'm not clever enough to think of which might make the meeting and blending together of human and wolf bits go smoothly. This can lead to "partial carriers", which can cause all sorts of interesting plot devices, such as two apparently healthy people conceiving a werewolf child together, and not knowing why.

The second thing I'd add is probably more time before the first transformation occurs. Human bodies are tremendously tough things, I should know, I've beat the crap out of mine. I also know that because of this, while an infection may take approximately 2 weeks to dig in, causing physical changes is a much more intractable challenge. I cite my personal experience with severe physical injuries, such as when I was attempting to bicep curl an 85 pound dumbbell, I went through several 4-6 month lay offs to basically rest and heal from strains to the inside of my elbow, totaling about 2 years of training and injurious failure before I made a successful injury free lift. Now while it's assumed that a werewolf is going to be like the movies, the good stuff messing with your body magically makes it heal faster and everything, I don't buy into that. I could make a case for a transformation happening in 5 minutes, but I have a hard time convincing myself that the end result would be everything one expects, maybe 1 or 2 out of 3-4. So we have a dramatic transformation, but you get a quite fragile werewolf as a result, or you can have a very powerful werewolf, but it would be more like Oliver Reed in Curse of the werewolf, mostly human form beefed up a bit.

My bet for a convincing all round werewolf turning (I presume you mean "transformation") would be a 24+ hour affair, the closest to a Hollywood type but without all the magical "it just works because the script requires it" transformation, would be about a 3-5 hour cycle from human to werewolf body type for the initial step, it wouldn't be a case of you suddenly switch to wolf mode and go on the prowl, you change as you go, getting more an more beastly till you end up wherever a transformation goes. Now the transformation in reverse has some potentially faster things going for it, such as programmed cell death, which would come in handy for dumping the dozens (maybe even hundreds) of pounds of body mass you might have gained during your wolfish feeding binges, the excess body mass simply dies and decays, and is either excreted fro the body via mechanisms such as the usual calls of nature, or it could just drop off the same way as a skin tag you strangled with a bit of cotton.

I have some theories about how to handle skeletal transformation, but whether it's done via bone softening or fragmentation I see it being a really dicey proposition with considerable risks. Fine particle erosion, redistribution, and deposition is probably my personal favorite, where bones are partially dissolved into a fine granular form suspended in a fluid, which can be squeezed into different shapes like toothpaste, and shaped like poly-filler. The fluid is drained, and then the bone hardened by whatever method, I don't know what biology might help with that, but it seems to be the least problematic and potentially most efficient way to reconstruct bone mass, not to mention probably painless, and lacking the juicy joint crunching and bone cracking sounds, probably more like sloshing and squelching.

The Meeper.
While the empty can may rattle the most, of equal or potentially greater import is what the reputably quiet cans are really full of.
All names are but souvenirs, in the end. Make good of your stay, so that they hold happy memories ~ Some guy.
Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something.
To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
User avatar
Volkodlak
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:05 am
Gender: Male
Mood: Bored
Location: Slovenia

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Volkodlak »

Meeper wouldnt be easier if all mass needed for the change is all the time in body instead of gaining it back before the change and dumping it when you change back?

fixed do you understand now
Last edited by Volkodlak on Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Meeper
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:07 pm
Custom Title: Friendly Neighbourhood Meeper
Gender: Male
Additional Details: Wannabe mad scientist.
Mood: Busy

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Meeper »

Lovec, you finally did it, your grammar finally broke my brain, I've no idea what you just asked. Rephrase please.
While the empty can may rattle the most, of equal or potentially greater import is what the reputably quiet cans are really full of.
All names are but souvenirs, in the end. Make good of your stay, so that they hold happy memories ~ Some guy.
Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something.
To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
User avatar
Volkodlak
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:05 am
Gender: Male
Mood: Bored
Location: Slovenia

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Volkodlak »

fixed
Image
User avatar
Meeper
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:07 pm
Custom Title: Friendly Neighbourhood Meeper
Gender: Male
Additional Details: Wannabe mad scientist.
Mood: Busy

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Meeper »

I'm going to assume the question is this: It seems more problematic to acquire mass after transformation from human to werewolf, and then shed the acquired mass during transformation from werewolf to human. Wouldn't it be simpler and more efficient to only use the existing body mass?

Both ways have potential merits, advantages, and potential limitations and problems. I cited it simply to give an example of how a transformation process might go, in order to make a vaguely coherent point. I intentionally didn't to pursue detailed analysis of these merits, and I'm not going to.

The Meeper.
While the empty can may rattle the most, of equal or potentially greater import is what the reputably quiet cans are really full of.
All names are but souvenirs, in the end. Make good of your stay, so that they hold happy memories ~ Some guy.
Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something.
To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
User avatar
Volkodlak
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:05 am
Gender: Male
Mood: Bored
Location: Slovenia

Re: Transmission and Turning process

Post by Volkodlak »

Well i was alittle thinking about this and come up with this:

I prefer that only first two full moons couse a transformation and after that you change becouse of high level of adrenaline or very severe emotional reaction, but you can and probably will learn to change at will.

0-30min after the bite: you feel the same as if you were bitten by normal wolf there is nothing that indicate that wolf is not normal wolf, but inside of your body virus is stealthly positioning and preparing itself for takeover imune system does not know that here is virus in the body and its dealing with potential infection of bite wound.
30-60min after the bite: virus strikes your imune system and atempts too take control of it this attack lasts about 30min and if attack is sucessful you surivive if it cannot do it virus will attack everything and causes cellular degradation, damages DNA and other key molecular structures within the cells in various tissues death follows in 30 min. If you in 40min do not expirience Vomiting,Nausea,Fever,severe Headache and Diarrhea it means you will surivive.
60min-25days after the bite: In this time virus starts to modify your body on cellular level bones, muscles, tissue, organs, nerves,sensory organs and everything else is modified slowly in 25 days so you do not suspect infection or any other illness. Virus will also during this 25 days period change your metabolism by making you more hungry than usual but nothing alarming and you will go to do your number 2 every third day.You may notice some odd stuff like your strenght, speed and sensory sensetivity will keep slowly increasing while you will not train at all or you will become faster at faster rate than others who train running or sprinting with you or you will become stronger at faster rate than your weight lifting friends and you will slowly getting better reflexes also, but only thing that will be visual by eye will be your muscles that are more visible and abbs will apear, but im not sure many people will go see a doctor if their body is becoming athletic.
25days- Full moon: in this period virus will rest and wait for full moon and in this period your metabolism will become normal again.

First shift: is wery painful and it last for about 2:30min
Image
Post Reply