Would you Willingly turn someone?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by ABrownrigg » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:47 pm

I love this thread.

:) Episode 2 of freeborn is based all around this topic. :)

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:18 pm

ABrownrigg wrote:I love this thread.

:) Episode 2 of freeborn is based all around this topic. :)
no spoilers please
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by ABrownrigg » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:08 pm

I share nothing but what would be teased at in episode 2 advertisements. :)

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Uniform Two Six » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:59 am

Terastas wrote: Assuming lycanthropy does entail increased regenerative possibilities (which it would have to in order for werewolves to survive the shifting process), it could be sought after purely for medicinal value, and no matter how great the drawbacks were, a lot of people would consider it a worthwhile sacrifice in exchange for the regeneration...

(Blah blah blah)

But the thing is that, no matter how many drawbacks there were to being a werewolf, or how well they were understood, there would still be people out there who would consider it a worthwhile tradeoff for the regeneration.

And if I'm being honest, I'm one of them.
Okay, I'm with you there, but turning someone against their will (or simply without their consent -- if, say unconscious due to injury or whatever reason) is really creepy. I'm sorry, but that's just a purely jerk-move.

Allow me to make a somewhat more cogent argument: I'm going to go way out on a limb and issue the pure conjecture that a significant percentage of participants on this site are at least somewhat taken with the basic idea of the werewolf. Ergo, the prospect of being magically transformed into one most likely is met with a rather more favorable reaction than the average person would. Now, let's change this slightly to -- say -- vampires (I personally like this one given how vehemently people around here hate vampires -- especially the sparkly kind). :D Much of the argument for transformation into a werewolf still holds, so how would you feel if somebody decided that you needed to be a vampire and executed that decision for you without asking you in advance? "Oh, you liked going out during the day? Oh -- well -- sucks to be you, then."

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:21 am

i agree, i would be angry at him but there will probably be price to pay:i youst save your life now you will join/help me or else
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Thylo » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:05 am

Oh I would definitely willingly turn someone. If you were a Werewolf, why not share your gift with others?
"There is no good or evil...there is only power, and those too weak to seek it."

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:11 pm

Thylo wrote:Oh I would definitely willingly turn someone. If you were a Werewolf, why not share your gift with others?
its a gift or curse but for turning someone i woud only do it if i know the man im turning very well and he know positive and negaitive sides of it and i forget he needs to agree on it
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:38 pm

I would turn someone under very specific circumstances. If a friend of mine were to be in need of power ( let's say that a powerful gangster killed his sister or something), then I would tell him that I could give him a certain power, but if he weren't strong enough, then it would consume him from the inside out.

If he expressed serious interest, then I would explain the specifics and then tell him to think carefully, as if he couldn't control himself, then I would kill him. If he accepted the offer, then I would turn him, let him take his revenge/get justice, then watch him carefully until I felt he was under control. If he denied, then I would basically say if you talk about me, you die. No one would believe you anyway. Werewolves? Ridiculous! :wink:
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Uniform Two Six » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:30 am

Kaged Tiger wrote:I would turn someone under very specific circumstances. If a friend of mine were to be in need of power ( let's say that a powerful gangster killed his sister or something)...
From a pragmatic standpoint, however, even this brings up some sticky issues. First off, encouraging and empowering someone to go on a murderous spree (regardless of provocation) is really pretty creepy in and of itself. More to the point, if (hypothetically), you're a werewolf and value the human race not knowing that your kind exist, is it really wise to intentionally create a situation in which anybody who escapes the dude's rampage is going to rant to anyone who will listen that werewolves exist... and anyone who does not escape will wind up as a dismembered, clawed-up mess on the floor? Even if you don't really mind, what about the other innocent werewolves whose lives you are now endangering by risking the secret of werewolves? Do they get a say?
Kaged Tiger wrote: If he expressed serious interest, then I would explain the specifics and then tell him to think carefully, as if he couldn't control himself, then I would kill him.
But, if he was really into the self-control thing, why would he need to become a werewolf and go on a wild, bloody, killing-spree in the first place?
Kaged Tiger wrote: ... If he denied, then I would basically say if you talk about me, you die. No one would believe you anyway. Werewolves? Ridiculous!
:eyebrow: Except, you just made him into a werewolf who can shapeshift in front of a TV camera if he so chose -- just to f*** you over. ??

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:44 am

Uniform Two Six wrote:
Kaged Tiger wrote:I would turn someone under very specific circumstances. If a friend of mine were to be in need of power ( let's say that a powerful gangster killed his sister or something)...
From a pragmatic standpoint, however, even this brings up some sticky issues. First off, encouraging and empowering someone to go on a murderous spree (regardless of provocation) is really pretty creepy in and of itself. More to the point, if (hypothetically), you're a werewolf and value the human race not knowing that your kind exist, is it really wise to intentionally create a situation in which anybody who escapes the dude's rampage is going to rant to anyone who will listen that werewolves exist... and anyone who does not escape will wind up as a dismembered, clawed-up mess on the floor? Even if you don't really mind, what about the other innocent werewolves whose lives you are now endangering by risking the secret of werewolves? Do they get a say?
Kaged Tiger wrote: If he expressed serious interest, then I would explain the specifics and then tell him to think carefully, as if he couldn't control himself, then I would kill him.
But, if he was really into the self-control thing, why would he need to become a werewolf and go on a wild, bloody, killing-spree in the first place?
Kaged Tiger wrote: ... If he denied, then I would basically say if you talk about me, you die. No one would believe you anyway. Werewolves? Ridiculous!
:eyebrow: Except, you just made him into a werewolf who can shapeshift in front of a TV camera if he so chose -- just to f*** you over. ??

good post Uniform Two Six.

one thing too add killing doesnt solve problems in real life but adds them:
1.) you taken a human life so what will stop you now from taking another one you youst changed your morals with first one you killed.
2.) you will be hounted by hunters and police and one will get you
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:17 am

Uniform Two Six wrote:
Kaged Tiger wrote:I would turn someone under very specific circumstances. If a friend of mine were to be in need of power ( let's say that a powerful gangster killed his sister or something)...
From a pragmatic standpoint, however, even this brings up some sticky issues. First off, encouraging and empowering someone to go on a murderous spree (regardless of provocation) is really pretty creepy in and of itself. More to the point, if (hypothetically), you're a werewolf and value the human race not knowing that your kind exist, is it really wise to intentionally create a situation in which anybody who escapes the dude's rampage is going to rant to anyone who will listen that werewolves exist... and anyone who does not escape will wind up as a dismembered, clawed-up mess on the floor? Even if you don't really mind, what about the other innocent werewolves whose lives you are now endangering by risking the secret of werewolves? Do they get a say?
Kaged Tiger wrote: If he expressed serious interest, then I would explain the specifics and then tell him to think carefully, as if he couldn't control himself, then I would kill him.
But, if he was really into the self-control thing, why would he need to become a werewolf and go on a wild, bloody, killing-spree in the first place?
Kaged Tiger wrote: ... If he denied, then I would basically say if you talk about me, you die. No one would believe you anyway. Werewolves? Ridiculous!
:eyebrow: Except, you just made him into a werewolf who can shapeshift in front of a TV camera if he so chose -- just to f*** you over. ??
This is one of those instances where your ideas don't really translate well into words. There's also the problem of how everyone's definition of werewolf is different. My ideal werewolf has a healing factor in all forms. Thus, you wouldn't have to do the job looking like a beast. The main idea was that my friend could survive being shot, which is obviously important, and he/she would have enhanced senses, physical abilities, et cetera, making it much easier to quietly sneak in and kill one well-protected individual, not go on a killing spree.

I'm also assuming that there are very few other werewolves, if any, besides me, as I tend to go for the curse rather than the virus, so that there doesn't have to be a living werewolf at all times. In other words, werewolves can completely die off for decades and then be brought back when another person is cursed. Also, you seem to have missed the if they denied of the last part. I wouldn't have made them a werewolf because they denied.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:37 am

Kaged Tiger wrote: This is one of those instances where your ideas don't really translate well into words. There's also the problem of how everyone's definition of werewolf is different. My ideal werewolf has a healing factor in all forms. Thus, you wouldn't have to do the job looking like a beast. The main idea was that my friend could survive being shot, which is obviously important, and he/she would have enhanced senses, physical abilities, et cetera, making it much easier to quietly sneak in and kill one well-protected individual, not go on a killing spree.

I'm also assuming that there are very few other werewolves, if any, besides me, as I tend to go for the curse rather than the virus, so that there doesn't have to be a living werewolf at all times. In other words, werewolves can completely die off for decades and then be brought back when another person is cursed. Also, you seem to have missed the if they denied of the last part. I wouldn't have made them a werewolf because they denied.
he would go in combat as human but wouldnt adrenaline rush make him wolf out at least in my view it would?
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Terastas » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:44 am

Uniform Two Six wrote:so how would you feel if somebody decided that you needed to be a vampire and executed that decision for you without asking you in advance? "Oh, you liked going out during the day? Oh -- well -- sucks to be you, then."
I'd probably shove a stake through his heart if I hadn't already shoved it up his a**. Though to be fair, my reaction to being given lycanthropy against my will probably wouldn't be much different.

If I became a vampire against my will, the vampire would get the crap beaten out of him.
If I became a werewolf against my will, the werewolf would get the crap beaten out of him, then berated about the fact that he could've just asked.

Even if you (were a stupid person and) considered being a vampire and/or werewolf to have thousands of benefits and no drawbacks, you'd still have to concede that it's a very different lifestyle to what you're living now. That in turn means you should never expect anyone's reaction to being infected to be positive.

For all the creative liberties it took, that was one of the few things I felt like Hellsing got right. Even when the alternative was death, Alucard still didn't turn Seras until she'd made the choice.

Sure, I think the whole "werewolves are not human" thing is an utter load of bull. But nobody died and crowned me the final authority on what makes a man, so I'll have to respect the opinion of anyone who disagrees.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:29 pm

Terastas nice post ,but i think most humans fear death so most of us would accept this offer if give us ability too live on.

if somebody without my will bit me even if it would be like my ideal WW i would be pissed at him and dont want too have anything too do with him because even if he ask me there is 80% chance i would declined his offer.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:12 pm

lovec1990 wrote:he would go in combat as human but wouldnt adrenaline rush make him wolf out at least in my view it would?
Eh, he'd go about half wolf, which is half as noticeable and half as memorable. Besides, people aren't going to believe on the testimony of a few shady criminal-types. Provided that he could still control himself somewhat, it wouldn't be as much of a mess as you might think. Of course, I will admit that there are a lot of factors that can't be perfectly predicted, but I'd still want to help my friend rather than not.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:15 pm

i would help my friend too but not like you would because it isnt right
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:38 pm

lovec1990 wrote:i would help my friend too but not like you would because it isnt right
Says who? What's your standard for that statement? A feeling? A religious belief? If people want to act like everyones' beliefs are just as legitimate, then who's to say what "isn't right"? Moral philosophy aside, you'll notice in my original post that I did say that he had the option of turning them in to the police like Batman or something. In fact, I find that preferable.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:45 am

ok,look if you think your way is good its good and im not saying you need change your idea but that it isnt right in my way of looking at it.

explanation:

yours friends familiy member was killed by gangster your friend is emotionaly compromised and i think he cannot make right decisions so you offer him power that give him ability to get revenge and in current state he would accept it because he dont care about anything but revenge.
New powers wont help him if hes gona go right after he acuire them he would probably die because hes not used too them and i dont think he will wait that long so he gets used too them.
avenging familiy mamber wont bring them back and satisfaction wont last long but powers with downsides would last your entire life now.

why did you bring up batman,because he follows an ideal and has morals, but i dont think your friend will have both when hes facing his primary target.

you know you could do it yourself it will be better than giving power too your friend because you will think clearly he would not.

im youst saying that your friend wont be thinking clearly and giving him this condition is wrong in my point of view.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:54 pm

lovec1990 wrote:avenging familiy mamber wont bring them back and satisfaction wont last long but powers with downsides would last your entire life now.
That's why I'd urge them to seriously consider. Seriously. I'd let them consider for at least a month.
lovec1990 wrote:you know you could do it yourself
It's not mine to do. I have no responsibility or satisfaction(well, maybe a little satisfaction) in it.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Terastas » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:30 am

K.T. has the right of it. Our opinions are just that: Opinions, and with little to nothing beyond speculation to base them on, we can't expect them to ever be treated as anything more than opinions.

The opinions of others, however, may be wildly different. I might think lycanthropy, with all its drawbacks, would be worth it for regeneration, but someone else might consider becoming a werewolf to be a fate worse than death.

For that reason, regardless of the circumstances, willful infection should never occur without consent. It doesn't matter how much it would benefit them or how much they could be trusted with it. If they don't want it: End of discussion.

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:03 am

Terastas wrote: For that reason, regardless of the circumstances, willful infection should never occur without consent. It doesn't matter how much it would benefit them or how much they could be trusted with it. If they don't want it: End of discussion.
i agree but not all can be turned in my point of view you will need to remind them of this.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kaged Tiger » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:47 pm

Terastas just hit the nail on the head. We can move on to a different topic now, he has finished this one so totally and completely that his post should be left as a memorial to the next generations of how to completely close down a topic and save everyone valuable time. I applaud you, Terastas.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Terastas » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:04 am

lovec1990 wrote:i agree but not all can be turned in my point of view you will need to remind them of this.
Never said otherwise. In fact, that was one of my earlier points. :x And I resent the implication that I ever argued to the contrary.

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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:29 pm

Terastas wrote:
lovec1990 wrote:i agree but not all can be turned in my point of view you will need to remind them of this.
Never said otherwise. In fact, that was one of my earlier points. :x And I resent the implication that I ever argued to the contrary.

if i offended you because i dont quite remember when you stated not all can be turned im sorry.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Scott Gardener » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:38 pm

Whoa... breathe, everybody. The Pack has always been a place for civil discussion. Part of the beauty of this place is that we don't devolve into flame wars. (Please don't ask for a definition of "Furry"!)

Yes, ethics is very much about opinion, but that by definition makes it open, not closed, to debate. We also have to be careful not to misinterpret intention. Something typed as a joke could be mis-read as sarcasm, since we can't include vocal inflections and facial expressions when we type. (Though we can depict werewolves being knocked unconscious with rubber duckies as a fall-back.)

:knockedout:
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...

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