Would you Willingly turn someone?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Uniform Two Six
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Scott Gardener wrote:Whoa... breathe, everybody. The Pack has always been a place for civil discussion. Part of the beauty of this place is that we don't devolve into flame wars. (Please don't ask for a definition of "Furry"!)
You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny! Oh, and while I'm at it, my definition of a "furry" is...
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Terastas »

Scott Gardener wrote:Yes, ethics is very much about opinion, but that by definition makes it open, not closed, to debate.
. . .No it isn't.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak »

im doing it again, because it got me thinking: In some cases werewolf would willingly bite someone too save his life because of injury or poision, but would it really save him?

in my opinion it could save him in case of poison, but he would have too be at least 1 hour from death, but he would die if hes injured and not forget that WW virus has 1% surivival rate.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Terastas »

lovec1990 wrote:im doing it again, because it got me thinking: In some cases werewolf would willingly bite someone too save his life because of injury or poision, but would it really save him?

in my opinion it could save him in case of poison, but he would have too be at least 1 hour from death, but he would die if hes injured and not forget that WW virus has 1% surivival rate.
This is another situation where your mileage may vary. In Inhuman, it takes days for the virus to circulate throughout the body and adapt to it. And even then, the benefits of regeneration don't kick in immediately.

So in my case, it's not a complete fix-all. It's certainly a possibility, but it would only suffice as the long-term solution: Immediate medical care would still be required.

That said, the original points about trust and consent are still valid. In fact, caution would be strongly advised when considering passing on the infection to people who are in pain or worse, as they will be much more prone to thinking irrationally.

A-la:

Yesterday:

Werewolf: "I could give you lycanthropy, but I should really caution you that-"
Patient: "Arrrrgh! Yes! Shut up and bite me already!"
Werewolf: "Umm. . . Kay."

Today:

Patient: "You gave me lycanthropy?! You son of a-"
Werewolf: "Because you asked me to! Ow! Stop hitting me!"
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Volkodlak »

Well here is kinda shown how each of us has his own view and i like it.
Terastas wrote:This is another situation where your mileage may vary. In Inhuman, it takes days for the virus to circulate throughout the body and adapt to it. And even then, the benefits of regeneration don't kick in immediately.So in my case, it's not a complete fix-all.
It's certainly a possibility, but it would only suffice as the long-term solution: Immediate medical care would still be required.
I agree, in my view faster healing manifests slowly in 25 days plus in my view healing speed is just doubled they dont heal extremly fast, but they also have three times toughter bodies example: You create 1 cm deep slash wound on human but you do only do 3,3mm on a werewolf.

well in my view werewolfs need to consider 1% surivaival rate.

and i agree about dying people being irrational and nice example
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Mr_Atrox »

The entire argument is moot. A Werewolf isn't interested in "turning" anyone.

There is no possibility of infection outside of the actual bite.

And if you're dying, well then, infection from a fresh bite matters very little.


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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Drachona »

Someone said "not if it was against their will". I do not disagree with that at all. However, there are so many people out there who want to be "turned" or "changed" that it's ridiculous. I probably get requests to "turn" someone almost once a month. It gets really tiring to deal with, but I never stop responding to those requests because I feel it is important that those people understand two simple facts. First, I am not (nor are any other wolves that I know) aware of any way for someone to "become" a werewolf. What we are cannot be transferred like a virus. My study of werewolf anatomy is still lacking, but it seems that we possess multiple unique developments that aren't as trivial or ridiculous as hairy palms. The development of speech areas in the brain allow for a wide-range of sounds to be produced. At any moment, I can switch flowingly between complex human language and grunts, growls, or even body language which comes naturally to me but is atypical among humans. I've actually found a funny conflict when singing songs that have howling in them. There is a distinct difference between how humans howl and how wolves howl, and my physical tendency is to perform the latter type, meanwhile the former still feels strange (for example, making an "o" shape with your lips like the sound "ooo"). But I'm getting off-track. Aside from unique physical factors, the concept of "becoming" a werewolf glazes over the unique psychological and social developments that you can't just acquire. Being born as a werewolf means that you have a cognitive foundation on which to build. "Becoming" a werewolf would mean somehow going back and restructuring that foundation. It's not just a change in physical appearance. Arguably, a person who could just appear as a wolf or as an anthropomorphic wolf would not be a true werewolf. Being bipedal and using language are not the only things that make a human human, so being able to shift is not the only thing that makes a werewolf a werewolf.

Secondly, I can think of no reason to "change" someone, even if I had the ability. I always ask people why they want to be a werewolf, and I have yet to hear a good answer. "I want to be free" is a common one, or "my life sucks". Being a werewolf is not a fun and freeing experience. I would argue that being a werewolf, especially in todays world where we are not really believed in and still demonized to some extent, can make a person stronger through seeking a greater understanding of what makes one unique. I became more secure within myself by understanding not that being a werewolf is my fault or everyone else's fault, but instead by understanding that it's no one's fault. I am different from a lot of people, and that doesn't make me bad. That ultimately made me wiser and stronger, but I was lucky. Many never come to that realization, or don't have the same kind of support that I did. I was really lucky to have parents and friends who were willing to consider the idea. Now, it's just an accepted part of my life. But even still, I find myself moaning and complaining on occasion about being a werewolf. I struggle to understand a human, one of the dominating species on this planet, being dissatisfied with their position. Sure, you may not be rich and you may not have the greatest people around you, but why would you want to be a part of a group that is slowly falling apart? Why would you want to look back on your heritage and see only fire, death, and mere fragments of culture; whatever was left after Christianity obliterated it all? I understand the desire to be "free". It sounds nice, but neither I nor others like me know it. We haven't known what could be called freedom for over 10,000 years, since before humanity started turning against us. It's not a horrible existence. Like I said, I believe it has made me stronger as a person, but I cannot imagine why I would put someone in this situation, even if I could. I'm sorry this is so long, but it truly baffles me. I understand it, and yet it confuses me to no end. I know that, in the end, it is the result of ignorance; reacting to the "cool" werewolves in movies and books, and perhaps we could do something about it if we ever cared enough to establish an in-person community OUT IN THE OPEN. I know it's risky, but the alternative is the slow destruction of our history, our culture, and our own minds.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Kveldulf »

Now, there's one of the great ethical questions of being a lycanthrope...

If I were asked, and if I had great trust in the asker's competence and emotional stability...after full disclosure of the risks, difficulties, pack laws and structure, and so forth...I would probably then still require a sort of "apprenticeship" period where they worked with both natural wolves (say, in a sanctuary) for a period of time, and also got to know the pack and really understand how it functioned. Despite a lot of not-so-brilliant fantasy novels, not everyone is going to turn out to be super-Alpha after changing (the vast majority aren't, and a very good thing for pack function and survival that is too!), nor, curiously, do ordinary-looking young women automatically get chosen as soul-mates by the inner wolf of the hunkiest Alpha male of the pack. This is not something into which one should go with romantic expectations. More like expectations that you might wake up the next morning in desperate need of a shower...and not just to get the blood off; ye all *know* what sorts of things one likes to roll in when one is a wolf (hey, that rotten meat or other substance that humans find untowards just smells awesome to a wolf's nose, okay?).

Given those conditions, I might well turn someone who was stable, well cognizant of all the details involved, and compatible with the pack, because "The strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack". And one can always use an extra set of paws and jaws on the hunt, especially if going for larger game like elk (American moose) or if one lives where one might have to run a bear off one's kills or the like.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Of course, the ethical issue of turning someone gets rather more complex if the person is incapacitated and terminal (say from a severe injury) and turning him/her is the only plausible means of saving their life -- and even more complex if the person is someone that the werewolf deeply cares for.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Chance »

No. I wouldn't even for a minute consider it. The situation surrounding the question would make no difference in my decision.

Why? Well, because. Firstly you're subjected to pain in an amount you can't even bring words to( I say that because nothing in any natural state could transform that way without it) , being a werewolf would in some drastic ways shelter you from people and places. Then there's the possible anxiety over "if" someone would find out about you. There are just to many variables that would or could limit your life and the ability for you live it fully engaged. Essentially taking the life of another. In a few words , a life sentence.

Plus I don't really care how cool other poeple think it would be ,to be a werewolf. I personally think it would be pretty terrible, all those fun things we can fantasize about , being and living as a werewolf are fantasy. Make it a real world situation and all the real world pain of living like that would smack you in the face pretty quick.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Well, that sort of assumes that the benefits of lycanthropy are not worth the costs. If existence as a werewolf is a living hell, then it sort of answers the question for you (I mean, unless you really don't like the person you're thinking of turning, want him to suffer -- for whatever reason -- and don't really care if he decides as a werewolf to kill you for it, or reveal you to others and get you killed).

I sort of assume that the question implies that lycanthropy is a condition more akin to AB's script. I.E. some down-sides but on balance the cool bits at least even out. At that point, the question gets more interesting (and morally sticky).

Ultimately though, the issue you bring up revolves somewhat more with how you conceptualize the werewolf, than the circumstances of the scenario.
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Re: Would you Willingly turn someone?

Post by Chance »

Uniform Two Six wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:54 am Ultimately though, the issue you bring up revolves somewhat more with how you conceptualize the werewolf, than the circumstances of the scenario.
Perfectly said :thumbsup:
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