Satanic...?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.

Evil or not?

Yes
1
2%
No
6
10%
2 - Doesn’t really care either way
48
79%
3 - They’re pretty cool I guess, but they aren’t an obsession
6
10%
 
Total votes: 61

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Morkulv
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Post by Morkulv »

Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
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Post by Renorei »

Morkulv wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.

:sarcasm: What a tragedy.
Last edited by Renorei on Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jamie »

Morkulv wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.
It depends on what legends you are talking about. In folklore, the idea that werewolves are satanic is based on the following chain of reasoning:

1) All "miraculous" or "magical" events not caused by God or the saints are works of the devil.

2) People who are closely associated with the causation of such events are either saints, victims of the devil, or victims of witches.

3) Saints are too holy to turn into animals.

4) Therefore, people who turn into animals are either witches or victims of a witch or victims of the devil.

5) Most such people were defined as witches, not victims, by the Catholic Church during a certain time period that is also heavily referenced by persons who write about werewolves today.

6) Witches, by the above definitions, get their powers from the devil.

7) Therefore, people who turn into animals are partnered with the devil.

The above line of reasoning only applied during certain time periods, and only washed with some people. Even when the above line of reasoning was at its strongest in the culture of Europe, there were plenty of tales about werewolves who were not defined according to that model.
Frankly, folklore is often heretical, and average peasants often can't understand convoluted theological reasoning processes. Just look at fairy legends from the same time period. At that time, it was heretical to believe in fairies as such. You were either not supposed to believe in them at all, or you were supposed to believe that all of them were demons masquerading as fairies. Yet a large percentage of the rural population not only believed in fairies, they also tended to think of them as a neutral third realm of magical beings, not good like the angels, but not evil like the demons either. Even priests sometimes believed this. Nor did such people think of themselves as heretical, even though their clergymen were constantly trying to get them to modify or drop their fairy beliefs.
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Post by Morkulv »

Renorei wrote:
Morkulv wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.

:sarcasm: What a tragedy.
:sarcasm: Be carefull what you say! Maybe God doesn't let you into heaven, you never know.
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
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Post by Renorei »

Morkulv wrote:
Renorei wrote:
Morkulv wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.

:sarcasm: What a tragedy.
:sarcasm: Be carefull what you say! Maybe God doesn't let you into heaven, you never know.

I'm just pointing out the fact that whether or not our view of modern werewolves conforms to old legends is hardly something to be concerned about.

As it turns out, plenty of old legends have turned out to be untrue.
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Post by Morkulv »

Plenty have turned out to be still unexplainable.

Please, just stop being such a terrible pessimist. Thats the main-reason I keep bugging you when you say that scientists allready explained this and that and blablablablalbla...
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
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Post by Renorei »

Morkulv wrote:Plenty have turned out to be still unexplainable.

Please, just stop being such a terrible pessimist. Thats the main-reason I keep bugging you when you say that scientists allready explained this and that and blablablablalbla...
I'm not a pessimist. Suggesting that it's ok to deviate from a legend in which werewolves are evil Satanists is hardly pessimistic. In fact, that's pretty damn optimistic.

But, whatever. You have your views, I have mine. I have respect for the knowledge that scientific research has gathered, you don't. We're both just going to have to be ok with that.
:)
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Post by bloodwolf_345 »

I voted other. It really depends on the personality of the human. Do they crave power. In a transformed state they may have the capability to acquire it. If someone is seeking a promotion at work, would they kill the competition. If someone is running in an election, do they try and scare their opponent(s) out of the running. If a Werewolf is truly evil, then the death by silver thing would have to work. A pure metal like silver would burn and be unbareable to someone with an unpure heart in wolf form.
If someone is really big on helping people, then the same would follow in wolf form. A person who is a firefighter or law enforcement official could use the wolf form to assist them in their daily tasks. The invulnerability of the werewolf could allow a firefighter to charge into a burning building and save whoever is inside. For an officer, he/she would not have to worry about putting their life on the line. Someone who works with animals everyday could truly understand how the think and feel. A veteranarian could properly diagnose a problem with any animal just by talking to it in it's own language. An SPCA representative could find out just how cruel or nice an owner is, once again, by talking to it.
It all depends on the person, not the wolf. The traits of the person would carry over into the Wolfen form.
A fractured psyche is not always a bad thing. In the world of Werewolves and Otherkin, many can exist in one host very peacefully. I am a great example of that. I have 6 different Fursonas
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Post by Jamie »

Renorei wrote:
Morkulv wrote:
Renorei wrote:
Morkulv wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.
But not according to the legends.

:sarcasm: What a tragedy.
:sarcasm: Be carefull what you say! Maybe God doesn't let you into heaven, you never know.

I'm just pointing out the fact that whether or not our view of modern werewolves conforms to old legends is hardly something to be concerned about.

As it turns out, plenty of old legends have turned out to be untrue.
And, in addition, old legends are often contradicted by other old legends. Because, unlike in a werewolf novel, one writer is not responsible for all old legends. Furthermore, when in the history of the world have all people ever believed the exact same thing?
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Post by JoshuaMadoc »

Jamie wrote:And, in addition, old legends are often contradicted by other old legends. Because, unlike in a werewolf novel, one writer is not responsible for all old legends. Furthermore, when in the history of the world have all people ever believed the exact same thing?
Some of us still believe in some but not all of the things written in the old folklores. Okay, that's a VERY strong assumption for me to make, but i'm basing this off inheritance of behavior throughout generations.
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Post by dnl »

I thought there was a legand some were of a werewolf helping St.Patric.
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Post by Apokryltaros »

dnl wrote:I thought there was a legand some were of a werewolf helping St.Patric.
You mean that one Irish archbishop who was asked by a talking wolf (who was actually a man cursed to be a wolf) to give his mate (his wife who was also cursed to be a wolf) her last rites before she died?
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here a good werewolf legand

Post by dnl »

The Benandanti Werewolves
This case was tried in 1692 in Jurgenburg, Livonia, situated in an area east of the Baltic Sea, steeped in werewolf folklore. It involved an 80-year-old man named Thiess.

Thiess confessed being a werewolf, saying his nose had been broken by a man named Skeistan, a witch who was dead at the time he had struck Thiess. According to Thiess' testimony Skeistan and other witches were preventing the crops of the area from growing. Their purpose for doing this was to carry the grain into hell. To help the crop to continue to grow, Thiess with a band of other werewolves descended into hell to fight the witches and recover the grain.

The warring of the werewolves and the witches occurred on three nights of the year: Saint Lucia, Pentecost and Saint John (the seasonal changes). If the werewolves were slow in their descent the witches would bar the gates of hell, and the crops, livestock, and even the fish catch would suffer. As weapons the werewolves carried iron bars while the witches used broom handles. Skeistan broke Theiss' nose with a broom handle wrapped in a horse's tail.

The judges were astounded by such testimony, for they had naturally supposed the werewolves were agents of the Devil. But now they were hearing the werewolves were fighting the Devil. When asked what became of the souls of the werewolves, Thiess said they went to heaven. He insisted werewolves were the "hounds of Gods" who helped mankind by preventing the Devil from carrying off the abundance of the earth. If it were not for them all would suffer. He said there were werewolves in Germany and Russia also fighting witches in their own hells.

Thiess was determined in his confession, denying he had ever signed a pact with the Devil. He refused to see the parish priest who was sent for to chastise him, saying that he was a better man than any priest. He claimed he was neither the first nor the last man to become a werewolf in order to fight witches.
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Re: here a good werewolf legand

Post by Jamie »

dnl wrote:The Benandanti Werewolves
This case was tried in 1692 in Jurgenburg, Livonia, situated in an area east of the Baltic Sea, steeped in werewolf folklore. It involved an 80-year-old man named Thiess.
The Benandanti were Italian. The Thiess case is from the area that was once the Soviet Union. These two varieties of werewolf have many themes in common, and likely sprang from a much older, Europe-wide lore of benevolent, witch-fighting werewolves, but classing the Thiess case as one of the Benandanti is just not accurate.
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Re: here a good werewolf legand

Post by Apokryltaros »

Jamie wrote:
dnl wrote:The Benandanti Werewolves
This case was tried in 1692 in Jurgenburg, Livonia, situated in an area east of the Baltic Sea, steeped in werewolf folklore. It involved an 80-year-old man named Thiess.
The Benandanti were Italian. The Thiess case is from the area that was once the Soviet Union. These two varieties of werewolf have many themes in common, and likely sprang from a much older, Europe-wide lore of benevolent, witch-fighting werewolves, but classing the Thiess case as one of the Benandanti is just not accurate.
Yeah, since when do Italians vacation in Latvia, anyhow?
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Re: Satanic...?

Post by wolfboy410 »

hey the pentagram was origanly a good symbol so what does that tell you :?
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Re: Satanic...?

Post by Apokryltaros »

wolfboy410 wrote:hey the pentagram was origanly a good symbol so what does that tell you :?
The upright pentagram (with one point upward) is a fertility symbol used by Wiccans and various other pagan groups. Christians, and later, Satanists, claimed that the inverted pentagram was allegedly a symbol of the Devil, often with a caricature of the head of the goat-faced demon Baphomet drawn inside of it. Wiccans sneer and or laugh at this idea, given as how, while they do acknowledge the existence of evil spirit, Wicca has no concept of a Devil leading a unity/legion of evil.
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