Satanic...?

[Terastas]

You really can't trust a Christian definition. For a lot of people, anything is either Christian or Satanic. Evolution, for example, is counter-creationism, therefore there are plenty that regard it as the teachings of Satanism.

Werewolves would be just one of a million misinterpretations of "if it isn't Christian, it's evil."

And yes, the pentacle was actually a Christian symbol in origin. The five points represent the four elements -- earth, fire, wind, water and spirit (spirit is always the upward point) and the ring represents the light and protection of God. This is why when the Devil's Star was concieved, it was made without the ring and with the spirit point at the bottom. But again, it's a symbol used in association with Wicca and Islam as well, and for a lot of people, if it isn't Christian, it's Satanic.

[Fenrir]

Who's to say what is "satanic" and what isn't infact there are rules that Satanism follows that most people here would take to heart.....In my own oppinion nothing can truely be satanic because nothing is pure evil not even satan....infact other religeons wouldn't even believe in such a concept..

Eleven rules for satanists (iam not a satanist)

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal ( wtf is a mating sign?)
6. Do not steal (paraphrased)
7 acknowledge the exsistence of magic
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself
9. Do not harm little children
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

[Faolan Bloodtooth]

In my opinion, Werewolves should be natural creatures created/born or altered from something through Natural Selection and Environmental Evolution... dont ask me how that would work, i wouldn't know... but they should be as natural as any other living creature in the world...

And since Satan can only influence humans (from wat i've read and been told anyways), how would he be able to corrupt a werewolf???

just some suggestions

[Morkulv]

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal ( wtf is a mating sign?)

I think when a female spreads her legs is a pretty obvious mating-sign.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Kirk Hammett]

The mating signal is something Neandethals used. Well in a book I read. It may not be true.

The female would use coy glances towards a male. The females in the book were very opressed though. A male would use a mating signal and the female would lie down and let him mate with her.

Though I think the Satanist thing (Im not one either, but whats odd is Lachlan, one of my guitar students, was telling me about this religion and I did NOT know it was like that. The destroy thing is hell extreme but the rest you could easily take to heart) means something different. Like 'dont rape unless she or he wants you to mate with them'.

Anyway that was off topic of me haha!! But yeah a werewolf could take on satanist things because a werewolf has human type of intelligence. They can think about these things.

[Scott Gardener]

Being evil and being Satanic aren't the same.

Evil is a subjective concept based on the premise that immoral and malevolent behavior and mindset can be the result of an organized fundamental alignment. I would say that people can be evil, and therefore lycanthropes can be as well.

Satanic, however, is participation in one of two seperate religious movements.

Church Satanists follow the teachings of a man named Anton LeVay, who started a Satanist movement originally as a joke, a parody of Catholicism and organized religion in general. People started taking it seriously and it became more than what it originally was. Most followers, however, use the imagery as shock value to decondition what they see as brainwashing by mainstream religion. They are largely instead disgruntled atheists.

Cult Satanists are more the people of whom to be afraid, as they often times are delusional and/or paranoid. Their belief systems are highly individualistic, but their stealing and perverting elements of Paganism simply gives Fundamentalist Christianity fodder to reinforce misconceptions by the mainstream public about Wicca and other benign nature-worshipping religions.

I don't consider the former neccessarily evil, just depressing to be around. The latter, I would consider possibly mentally ill but usually evil. And, lycanthropy wouldn't preclude either, though neither do I feel it should create or enforce either--though it might psycholotically set one up to a philosophical crisis that could drive one towards either in a predisposed individual.

[Terastas]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal ( wtf is a mating sign?)
6. Do not steal (paraphrased)
7 acknowledge the exsistence of magic
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself
9. Do not harm little children
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

This is different form of Satanism entirely. This stems from the Church of Satan, a religious following which, in all fairness, is really poorly named. The major emphasis of the CoS is that there are no living dieties or prophets and that the only true power is found within the self, therefore when they say "Praise Satan," they actually mean "Praise Me." Supposedly, their founder, Anton LaVey, only called his religion the Church of Satan as a publicity stunt.

Other than the (poor choice of) name, the CoS has absolutely nothing to do with the Satanism lycanthropy is associated with, that being the "black magic" variety.

[Jamie]

Being evil and being Satanic aren't the same.

Evil is a subjective concept based on the premise that immoral and malevolent behavior and mindset can be the result of an organized fundamental alignment. I would say that people can be evil, and therefore lycanthropes can be as well.

Satanic, however, is participation in one of two seperate religious movements.

Yeah! Someone else noticed that most of the replies in this topic were discussing the old good werewolves vs. evil werewolves debate, wheras this topic was set up to ask whether werewolves would be satanic or not (which is a separate condition from just being evil; after all, there are some evil people in pretty much every religion, and there are evil atheists).

As to the variety of satanists, there are at least three, according to a manual for law enforcement I once read. According to folklorists, there may be dozens or even hundreds of types, since some anthropologists and folklorists use the label "satanism" for any religion that deliberately worships in exactly the opposite way as the mainstream, accepted religion (doing ceremonies in a perverted or backwards way, worshipping demons or evil gods instead of the good god(s), doing anti-fertility rituals to destroy crops instead of increasing their produce, and so on). In such a defition, satanists don't need to worship Satan or even know anything about Christianity.
Of course, most of these anthropologically-defined satanic religions are thought to not actually exist, or to be very intermittent affairs that periodically flare up largely in response to the legends about them and then die out until extreme social frustration causes some individual to recreate them again. In other words, they are thought to be small, isolated groups that wish to thumb their noses at society's restrictions, and they are not usually thought to be a long-lived stable religion.
For example, the Navajo lore about skinwalkers largely falls into the category of anthropological satanism that doesn't reference Christianity in any way. Thus, Navajo werewolves would be satanists according to such a definition.


LaVey's religion is often classified as humanistic hedonism with the trappings of satanism added for flavor and to piss people off.

[vrikasatma]

One doesn't have to be pettable or even approachable to be good. Benevolence can even hide in physical ugliness, and vice-versa.
Besides, it's more interesting if the ugly/scary guy is actually on the side of the angels.

[Renorei]

I'm pretty sure the creator of the thread was in fact referring to the evil type of Satanism, IMO.

Thus, most of us have responded as such. Though, I could easily see a werewolf being a 'self-worshipping' type of Satanist. In fact, a HUGE number of people are in fact self-worshipping, at least in terms of their behavior and interactions with others, though they don't necessarily associate themselves with the Satanist religion. Heck, if you go by that definition of Satanism, I'm a little Satanic sometimes myself . Heh, I'm pretty sure we all are from time to time.

[Morkulv]

I'm pretty sure the creator of the thread was in fact referring to the evil type of Satanism, IMO.

Right, that explains the topic-title.

[Fenrir]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal ( wtf is a mating sign?)
6. Do not steal (paraphrased)
7 acknowledge the exsistence of magic
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself
9. Do not harm little children
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

This is different form of Satanism entirely. This stems from the Church of Satan, a religious following which, in all fairness, is really poorly named. The major emphasis of the CoS is that there are no living dieties or prophets and that the only true power is found within the self, therefore when they say "Praise Satan," they actually mean "Praise Me." Supposedly, their founder, Anton LaVey, only called his religion the Church of Satan as a publicity stunt.

Other than the (poor choice of) name, the CoS has absolutely nothing to do with the Satanism lycanthropy is associated with, that being the "black magic" variety.

That is terribly confusing! Your right it does not make any sence!

[Renorei]

I'm pretty sure the creator of the thread was in fact referring to the evil type of Satanism, IMO.

Right, that explains the topic-title.

I only mentioned that because some of the comments suggest that the replies to this thread which focus on the evil type of Satanism aren't what you were looking for. They seem to imply if you were simply asking about the non-evil type of Satanism, which you weren't. For example:

Yeah! Someone else noticed that most of the replies in this topic were discussing the old good werewolves vs. evil werewolves debate, wheras this topic was set up to ask whether werewolves would be satanic or not (which is a separate condition from just being evil; after all, there are some evil people in pretty much every religion, and there are evil atheists).

[Terastas]

I think the clarification Jamie was trying to make was the difference between people that are just mean-spirited, greedy or what-have-you, and people that are evil entirely for the sake of being evil. No doubt in my mind that Osama Bin Laden and Fred Phelps are evil to the bone, for example, but I seriously doubt either one of them has ever sat in a circle of candles and sacrificed a hamster.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I think the clarification Jamie was trying to make was the difference between people that are just mean-spirited, greedy or what-have-you, and people that are evil entirely for the sake of being evil. No doubt in my mind that Osama Bin Laden and Fred Phelps are evil to the bone, for example, but I seriously doubt either one of them has ever sat in a circle of candles and sacrificed a hamster.

*ahem*

"No evil exists for no reason"

Am i right?

[Terastas]

*ahem*

"No evil exists for no reason"

Am i right?

True enough, but some reasons are better than others. Classic example of a bad reason:

"I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die."
~Johnny Cash.

[Moonstalker]

Well think about it if you lived in the 1500's and you saw your best friend turn into a wolf. What would you think? (remember medievil mindset) You'd think he'd been cursed or had cursed himself. A creature that can stand on two legs (in gestalt ), can barely speak words and everytime they do their teeth show would be pretty friken scary. I voted it depends because not all humans are evil and not all wolves are evil.

And not to mention what people thought about ordinary wolves in middle ages. They were devils
Autistic and epileptic people were judged and killed as werewolves. They thought that werewolves received their orders straight from satan himself, if you didn't believe in werewolves you were heretic.
In these days, if you saw someone to turn in to a werewolf you would brobaply think "COOL!" (especially if you were a teenager)

[Morkulv]

I'm pretty sure the creator of the thread was in fact referring to the evil type of Satanism, IMO.

Right, that explains the topic-title.

I only mentioned that because some of the comments suggest that the replies to this thread which focus on the evil type of Satanism aren't what you were looking for. They seem to imply if you were simply asking about the non-evil type of Satanism, which you weren't. For example:

Yeah! Someone else noticed that most of the replies in this topic were discussing the old good werewolves vs. evil werewolves debate, wheras this topic was set up to ask whether werewolves would be satanic or not (which is a separate condition from just being evil; after all, there are some evil people in pretty much every religion, and there are evil atheists).

No, thats fine. I was aware of what type of comments I could espect.

My question was: Should a werewolf be more evil when transformed? I mean, when somebody is a really shy and Christian person, should he become more 'evil' (damn, its really hard to explain the term 'evil', but I hope you get my point...)?

[Renorei]

My question was: Should a werewolf be more evil when transformed? I mean, when somebody is a really shy and Christian person, should he become more 'evil' (damn, its really hard to explain the term 'evil', but I hope you get my point...)?

I think a person might become more assertive or more aggressive, but not necessarily more evil when they are transformed.

[garouda]

Frankly I reject the connection of the affliction/gift of lycanthropy to any religion. The primary religions which believe in 'Satan' are Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are in fact related religions. Brands X, Y and Z.

What humans and religions more often than not do, in a sort of knee jerk reaction, is ascribe evil to anything they do not understand or cannot dominate and control.

I should like to think of perceptions of what a werewolf is, in comparison to how people describe an automobile accident. 5 people see the same accident, and all 5 people give their own descriptions of it. A reader, not familiar with the details, then reads the descriptions of the event. Often enough, the images relayed from the descriptions, yield the impression that these are about completely different occurences. As if the witnesses had not even seen the same event.

The personalities of werewolves, will be individual. And even then subject to interpretation and misinterpretation. The WW that someone considers evil, another might find heroic.

Remember that a lot of the judgements that humans make about the world around them, are coloured by shades of fear. And when fear is part of the mix, clear judgement often goes out the window.

Edit: spelling

[Jamie]

I think the clarification Jamie was trying to make was the difference between people that are just mean-spirited, greedy or what-have-you, and people that are evil entirely for the sake of being evil. No doubt in my mind that Osama Bin Laden and Fred Phelps are evil to the bone, for example, but I seriously doubt either one of them has ever sat in a circle of candles and sacrificed a hamster.

Yes. I wasn't trying to say that satanists aren't evil. I was trying to say that people can be evil without being satanists. Therefore, hypothetically werewolves could be evil without necessarily being satanists.
For example, there could be a werewolf of the "mindless murdering beast" variety who is unaware of his transformations, is generally a nice person when in human form, and goes to church like a good Christian every Sunday. This character, viewed as a whole, is evil. But not a satanist.
There could also be a werewolf who is an evil corpoate ladder-climber, is fully aware of his werewolf nature, and uses his talents to take out rivals. However, he is an atheist and doesn't have any religion. He is evil but not a satanist.
I perceived this thread as being about whether werewolves are, or should be, or might be, or have to be, satanists. The old good werewolves vs. evil werewolves debate has been discussed before in other threads, I viewed this thread as a refinement of those discussions with a more specific topic.

[Silver]

(Hesitates a second)

Okay, I'm gonna wade in here.

I first want to agree with the folks that said there is a difference between Satanists and evil. It's all been covered so I won't say more than just "I agree."

I believe the original question was something like would WWs become evil when they TF. Should they?

There was a lot and I mean a LOT of discussion around, over, beside, behind and completely away from the main thought and it seemed to wrap around:
What's meant by evil?
What's meant by Satanistic?

It looks to me like you guys came up with a bottom line.


WWs, like all intelligent creatures, are complicated and distinct. They are not evil, or non-evil as a race. The individual WW makes that choice.

You guys think that answers the question?

[Renorei]

WWs, like all intelligent creatures, are complicated and distinct. They are not evil, or non-evil as a race. The individual WW makes that choice.

You guys think that answers the question?

Yes.

[Shadow Wulf]

WWs, like all intelligent creatures, are complicated and distinct. They are not evil, or non-evil as a race. The individual WW makes that choice.

You guys think that answers the question?

Yes.

Its amazing how we even came to talk about this subject sense it has been talked before and everyone should know the answer to it.

[Scott Gardener]

Actually, that werewolves aren't compulsory evil or servants of Satan was one of the very first things we settled around here, back in late 2004.