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Scott Gardener wrote:One could throw in an instinctive drive to withdraw into one's self during the infection process. This will tend to cause one to shy away from non-werewolves, including the medical profession. It would have to be a pretty strong urge, however, to make a big difference. But, it could work--not just as a plot device, but as a legitimate survival instinct in certain timelines.

That would make sense, considering that real wolves tend to be fairly shy animals.

Ok, so that raises a question in my mind. Feel free to throw duckies when needed, I can take it. But,

Then it is suggested that the survival instincts of avoiding discovery is carried over with the infection, a part of the DNA recoding? You know what I mean don't you? When something becomes such an integral part of a creature it becomes part of its very essence. Like how monarch butterflies can fly a migration pattern that they've never seen. It's become an instinctual part of them.

Or...is it just reawakening the long stunted instincts of humanity while giving fuel to the paranoia and fear of things we don't understand, to hide away and keep it secret?

I feel like I'm not explaining myself very well. My brain isn't releasing the words I want today for some reason. *Slaps forehead* Bad brain.... But someone out there may just get what I'm asking. I hope.

I'd think it'd be somthing much simpler; although the instincts of the wolf, including caution, would certainly eventually become significant aspects, at this stage I'd think it'd be purely hormonal. Could just be the instincts starting to kick in combined with the werewolf not knowing what's going on, thus raising the stress.

Ralith wrote:Could just be the instincts starting to kick in combined with the werewolf not knowing what's going on, thus raising the stress.

Of course, if the werewolves were organized, then they'd probably have the new 'recruit' locked up until the change, for the interests of security.

Well, yes. But not many people are going to be interested in writing a story/making a movie about something like that where everything goes right, are they?

Past the obvious disorganized werewolves and/or accidental bite without proper preparation, there are some other interesting possibilities. What if the person who was bitten absolutely had to be somewhere in the period leading up to their initial shift for some very good reason? Although, in all honesty, I can't think up anything that the organized werewolves would deem important enough to take that risk. Perhaps an accidental bite of a werewolf-friendly politician leading up to an election?

Ralith wrote:Although, in all honesty, I can't think up anything that the organized werewolves would deem important enough to take that risk. Perhaps an accidental bite of a werewolf-friendly politician leading up to an election?

Yeah, it would have to be someone who is pretty publicly visible, and couldn't just 'disappear' for a couple of weeks.

In most cases, though, the werewolves wouldn't really care if it ruined the bitten's career, because revealing their existance would still be too great a risk. Besides, who needs a career when you can live unsupported in the forest?

Ralith wrote:In most cases, though, the werewolves wouldn't really care if it ruined the bitten's career, because revealing their existance would still be too great a risk. Besides, who needs a career when you can live unsupported in the forest?

Yeah, I was thinking of the few cases though where someone disappearing would start a large search, that could be very problimatic.

Ahh... I hadn't thought of that. We've got so many great ideas and so few skilled authors

Ralith wrote:Ahh... I hadn't thought of that. We've got so many great ideas and so few skilled authors

Yeah, it kinda sucks when you get a good idea but can't really express it well.

Lupin wrote:

Ralith wrote:Ahh... I hadn't thought of that. We've got so many great ideas and so few skilled authors

Yeah, it kinda sucks when you get a good idea but can't really express it well.

I know the feeling. I've been trying to write several werewolf stories for a while..but I'm either too busy, lose interest, or get a serious writers block. I keep trying though. I'm in the middle of one right now...and thankfully I'm nowhere near stopping!

Rementh wrote:hmmmm...

Maybe they would have heightnened senses and the wound would hurt really bad and they might have some more animal like instincts.

I got those effects already
I would say the person who is just bitten can hear and smell better. The guy wonders where the smell of blood is coming from when he's cooking some food.

Moon Daughter wrote:I know the feeling. I've been trying to write several werewolf stories for a while..but I'm either too busy, lose interest, or get a serious writers block. I keep trying though. I'm in the middle of one right now...and thankfully I'm nowhere near stopping!

We'd love it if you'd post what you have so far, and most of us can give decent critique if you're interested. And if you come to writer's block, post the details, and we can help

Ralith wrote:

Moon Daughter wrote:I know the feeling. I've been trying to write several werewolf stories for a while..but I'm either too busy, lose interest, or get a serious writers block. I keep trying though. I'm in the middle of one right now...and thankfully I'm nowhere near stopping!

We'd love it if you'd post what you have so far, and most of us can give decent critique if you're interested. And if you come to writer's block, post the details, and we can help

That would be great! But just to let you know...I couldn't seem to get my inspiration for an original story, so it's actually a fanfic (a story using copyrighted characters from shows, movies, etc..). It's based on the WB show 'Supernatural', because I'm totally in love with that show at the moment. I have the prologue and two chapters already written, so extra critique would be greatly appreciated. How can I post them?

The Creativity section should be appropriate.

Ralith wrote:The Creativity section should be appropriate.

Thanks. I didn't know they had that section here...I'm still fairly new in this neck of the woods. Here's the url if you want to read it:

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewtopic.php?t=1948

Thanks for your help!

Moonstalker wrote:I would say the person who is just bitten can hear and smell better. The guy wonders where the smell of blood is coming from when he's cooking some food.

Didn't that happen in the movie Wolf or am I misstaken?

I think that could be part of the symptoms(Sp yeah I can't spell very well but am trying) but I agree with some of the other posts as well.

Ancient wrote:

Moonstalker wrote:I would say the person who is just bitten can hear and smell better. The guy wonders where the smell of blood is coming from when he's cooking some food.

Didn't that happen in the movie Wolf or am I misstaken?

I think that could be part of the symptoms(Sp yeah I can't spell very well but am trying) but I agree with some of the other posts as well.

Not sure if that happened in the movie Wolf...I've never seen it. But yeah, that would most likely be a symptom. It fits in with the heightened senses...so yeah, it's probably one of the symptoms.

Leighlia:

Then it is suggested that the survival instincts of avoiding discovery is carried over with the infection, a part of the DNA recoding?

Perhaps you were suggesting that the desire for secrecy were itself an instinctive motivational drive built into the infection?

Scott Gardener wrote:Leighlia:

Then it is suggested that the survival instincts of avoiding discovery is carried over with the infection, a part of the DNA recoding?

Perhaps you were suggesting that the desire for secrecy were itself an instinctive motivational drive built into the infection?

Thank you. That's what I was asking, yes. Are we assuming that this instinctual drive for secrecy is built into the infection? Or is it just the normal human paranoia of things that are not usual and understood?

Leighlia wrote:Thank you. That's what I was asking, yes. Are we assuming that this instinctual drive for secrecy is built into the infection? Or is it just the normal human paranoia of things that are not usual and understood?

A bit of B) amplified by some of the lupine instincts bleeding through. Not so much "hiding the infection" but more of a "fear of the unknown."

Some of this got me going so this is my two cents on things:

I love the ideas that are presented. Really-really well thought out material. And no matter how it's done I think the addition of thought on all this is pretty cool.

I do think that the danger factor of someone bitten has been overlooked. Health during a shift would be painful if not downright physically exhuasted. There would have to be an increase in metabolism just to keep up or a few extra pounds at least to satiate for a sudden emergency shift which probably, on a full moon, would send someone into shock. Recovery being only possible when assuming full form.

I think the sooner the bite for a novice to the full moon the more physically and mentally dangerous it'd be. The fact is the high demand of a bite might be questionable on the survival of the person bit because no matter how you cut it any sort of physical change that dramatic would be superbly taxing.

And while the full moon might not bid unbelievably odd observations for us now the fact is it definately does merit results around us and within us. Mensus is often aligned with moon, large bodies of water respond to it, and it's one of the forces of nature. There are a slew of theories and materials out there to support it.

In the end in my opinion it would have some literal 'gravity' on the transformation of such a fictional being. But I also think it can be a bad influence.

Check this out: Solunar Theory -- Animals and Hunting Affected by the Sun and Moon

I have to agree that the full moon could very well speed things up. It has its 'pull' on that night and someone could very well go into shock and die prior to their shift.

On a regular moon cycle I think the best way to really see things as in 'shifter safety' ... Safely bitten would be probably on the Wanning Gibbous as it gives the most time.

I think the stages of any so called 'infection' would definately be based on how resistant the body is, how large the person is and physical ability to withstand shift.

And say a person is bitten on the Wanning Gibbous -- they don't have to shift until the full moon when that forces them to. Physical will can be incorporated and possibly help to control it in that time period. The said victim of infeciton probably wouldn't even have a trigger until the next full moon anyway -- but they will be very physically ready, assuming they don't starve themselves.

While someone a few days prior to the full moon will probably be sweating bullets, undergoing weight loss and possibly some weird changes in their eating habits.

Now, as for the moon -

There are 8 phases of the moon which happen roughly over 28 days (27 with give or take hours or minutes but I round up). Each stage would have a danger factor in it:

• New Moon - Moon is not visable (except during a solar eclipse). Illumination will begin increasing next phase.
• Waxing Crescent - Less than half illuminated. Illumination increasing
• First Quarter - One half is illuminated. Illumination still increasing.
• Waxing Gibbous - More han half is illuminated. Still increasing illumination.
• Full Moon - Completely illuminated moon. Will begin decreasing illumination Shift Danger Level: Extreme.
• Waning Gibbous - More than one half is still illuminated. Illumination decreasing. Shift Danger Level: Safest
• Last Quarter - One half of the moon is still illuminated. Illumination still decreasing.
• Waning Crescent - Less than one half of the moon is still illuminated. Illumination is still decreasing.

I don't really know what to call all the in-between zones beside from Danger Level Small to Extreme really... What to exactly call the in between is principle of each persons receptiveness to the agent causing the shift in the physical body plus the power of the moon at that time.

A full moon night would just be very hellish and an angry, very trying experience. It would be the real way to sift out weaklings. Some people just don't have the body and that's something people seem to overlook.

As far as say, too long undergoing symptoms and the dreaded Doctor Visit would probably be futile anyway. The agent is probably not searchable via our methods or if it was it wouldn't be identifiable.

I think doctors would, because of how doctors are that I know, make a wrong assumption as to what it was if it was at all detectable-- and, with the same speculation of doctor behavior at hand, by the time the test results came back you'd either be toting that new spring body bag and toe-tag or loping free in said new form.

Many-many things, for centuries, have slipped under the radar -- one doctor visit wouldn't stem horrendous medical conditions and guys in hazard suits dragging you away for testing. As we all know our medical staff usually works at the pace of snails. And if you're poor and have bad health insurance the phrase "slower than molasses in Febuary" comes to mind. Or if you have an HMO you will avoid the doctor for obvious reasons. And in this country if you have no health insurance you don't go get medical care unless you want to pay with donation of an arm, a few teeth, an organ, and a leg.

Humanity makes hiding easy.

After infection it probably would be safe to say that whatever it is that causes a Werewolf to become a werewolf is above and beyond human's calling to unravel. The worst thing a 'victim' of shift might have to fear is some sort of false positive on their next drug test just to make all of us go, "What? Why would it do that?!"... O_o;; In the words of Stephen Lynch at Adelphi University's Comedy show, "And that, children, is what we'd call irony. Now, kids, irony is..."

Well I would think that there sences got better for example, the wolf's sences compared to a human's sences is amazing they can hear better taste, better smell things from far away; but a human would not hear an approching person coming secretly from behind or somthing, so maybe insted of the person getting sick from the bite they would just be over welmbed by the better more inproved sences.

Having reed this thread to this point I have some thoughts. If some of them belong better in another thread, I should be grateful for being so pointed.

*****

The progression of the 'infection' as has evolved in this discussion makes general sense. I would think, the same agent which is some sort of symbiote to human tissue, would also be inimicable to foreign bodies such as ordinary microbes and virii. Human tissues would be .... edited by the virus, while nonhuman / nonwerewolf ones would nearly insantly be annihilated being too incompatible with the invading virus.

*****

As for remarks about high / low crime and what have you on moonlit nights. As someone who mightily enjoys extended days for a variety of purposes, it is easily stated, that moonlit nights have a major critical factor which is helpful for pretty well all creatures with visual organs. Namely, more light. Even for creatures such as humans who lack a reflective tapetum ( which ampifies light by forcing it through the light sensing membrane of the eye a second time ) , they benefit greatly on nights when there is more natural light. Further for those engaging in somewhat disapproved activities, the extra illumination can often allow these activities to proceed without the revealing use of unnatural light sources such as flashlights. Whether these activities are a moonlight hike, wandering the back alleys of the city, or out and out crime, they are all made easier to accomplish by the availability of free moonlight.

*****

Regarding the pain of the change. Being someone who engages in activities where injury is not unknown, one must remember that there are a variety of natural painkillers in the body.

Adrenaline
Endorphins

Some of us in fact are known to become somewhat addicted to the rushes which both Adrenaline or Endorphins can deliver. Surely we have heard of the pleasure to be found in pain ?

Whether it comes from the combination of actual pain, or of enhanced fear, these can both release Adrenaline and or Endorphins.

Those here who have ever experienced such as an Endorphine rush, can personally testify to this. Those who enjoy it, seek it out. Believe me.

So, where am I going ?

Such a complex viral agent as a Werewolf Shapechanging one would likely be the result of ages of evolution. As such, the version which would better enhance the survival of the recipient, would be more likely to be carried and passed on for more years and thus be more dominant in the Werewolf population.

So what would this better, faster, more survivable version offer ? Well for one thing, enhancement of the Adrenaline and Endorphine systems.

What might this mean for one who IS a werewolf, once the virus has thoroughly invaded the body ? That during the shapechange, along with the pain, however awful one specifies that it should or would be, there would also be intense exhilaration. Perhaps even a nirvana like hormone driven pleasure much like a religious experience.

Perhaps for the Werewolves it might even be named: The Sacrament of the Moon.

Even for those, who have control, the pleasure of the pain might be sorely tempting. And most especially so, on the night for some, of no refusal.

The night of the Full Moon.

I'm sleepy and not really in the mood to plough through the whole thread, so apologies if this point's already been brought up...consider it a second vote in that case...

Quick thought: the bite victim gets a side-effect of their love of family/friends suddenly intensifying over the timeframe. They spend more time with their circle of friends, make vigourous love with their lover/spouse every night, hug and play with their children more, generally spend as much "quality" time with their nearest and dearest as they can. Wolves are renowned for their deep interpersonal relationships.