What problems would being a werewolf cause?

[Vagrant]

I actually agree with that, and I love the old movie Werewolves, almost as much as I love my own. That's the funny thing, isn't it? I've seen American Werewolf in London more times than I can count, and it's still entertaining for me every time. And I loved the Wolf-man comic book series too, and that Werewolf was another that had its roots in old films. I've nothing against the Werewolf as a creature of horror, and in fact I think it's thrilling to see them portrayed that way in a film. And I'm quite comfortable with that, in fact, because I know that that Werewolf is not my Werewolf, they're two separate entities and I can recognise that.

If anyone ever saw my film collection, they'd know that I wasn't one to make light of silver-screen Werewolves. And that's what made BRB's response so baffling to me, in turn, that's what drove me to finally spill the beans on what I was feeling. It was like I was the one being accused of discrediting Werewolves, and I don't, I wouldn't. I suppose that hit the right buttons, because that's what had happened to me, not what I had done. That's what I see, anyway... but I have to stress, that's what I see. I felt the need to apologise because I don't know if I've been doing that. I mean... have I? Have I ever made out that Vuldari's view is less valid than my own? That's something I'm worried about now more than ever. I don't think I have, anyway...

The thing is, I wish Vuldari could understand what I'm thinking, because there are things about him I do respect, I respect him for being critical, I respect him for having such a sharp mind, and I think he has a lot of valid points, just that he comes across wrong when he presents them. I wish he understood that I don't see him as any less valid, I'm not looking down my nose at him just because I have a different view of Werewolves. I haven't now, or ever. Again, I wouldn't.

I just feel sometimes like I'm offending him somehow just by having a view that's different than his, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong to make him want to discredit my personal ideal of the Werewolf. I just want him to stop that, I'd just like for him to not quote someone, then scoff at their beliefs. He may have a reason for doing so, if so... I'd like to hear it, that way we may be able to work this out.

And I'm sorry Midnight, that was a spur of the moment thing. I really enjoy this board, I love the people, and I don't think that I could leave unless I was forcibly removed. It was just something I admitted somberly as a possibility if I'd come over the wrong way and made others dislike me. Because I'm like lycanthropeful in that respect, I fear people hating me over flitting things like this, I worried that might happen and that would be crushing.

I'm not ususally quite this open either, but like I've said, I like this place. Quite a lot.

[Bloodyredbaron]

[lycanthropeful]

Well that was kind of hard to reply to, but I think what you're getting at is that I should just, upon entering a thread, should know that my ideas may differ from others', and that I am left vulnerable to criticism, as you said. For the most part I was fully aware of that. I'm not trying to declare my ideas as correct, and it doesn't seem like you are either. You like your werewolves in a way that is different from mine. I'm satisfied with that. ;)

Hopefully you understand that this reply is entirely devoid of sarcasm (seriously... no, seriously) unlike the retort I made in the section you first quoted me on, and for the sake of other members, I'll just withdraw from the thread so that everyone else isn't scared from all the debate. It's good to butt heads every now and then, though.

Ummm... discuss away?

[Moonraiser]

Well, for one, you would have to watch out for table lamps from running into your tail. (More like, your tail running into the table lamps. lol) I would hate to keep buying new light fixtures because I kept breaking them. So as a note: Controll your tail movements!

Thanks,

M

[Midnight]

.

[Vagrant]

We actually had a bit of a talk about this on IRC last night, it was really fun. We talked about what items in a house could be hazardous to a Werewolf's tail. I have these tall cupboards in my kitchen which snap shut startlingly quickly, and they're tall enough to catch the tip of an unwary were's tail.

It's be interesting if we all did a sweep of our house to see how many potential things there are that aren't dangerous to us, but would perhaps be dangerous/annoying to a gestalt Werewolf. But that's likely a topic for another thread.

[RedEye]

Bloody Red...
I think you mistake what I meant. To me, the question asked "What problems would being a Werewolf cause... as in apart from being a Standard Issue Human.
Really, my Werewolves do have problems, and lots of them. Anyone who has read any of the "Wulfen" series knows I love to load my Were's with problems, then let them solve them. I watch and write what I "see".
It's just that S.I. Humans can have the exact same problems, sans fur and fangs. S.I. Humans can have MORE problems than Werewolves.
The question to me was an exceptional case; as in problems unique to Werewolves and nothing else.
Still haven't found any. Fleas don't count. Humans get them too.

[Vagrant]

Still haven't found any. Fleas don't count. Humans get them too.

That's why I discounted fleas, too.

I actually got your angle a bit earlier on, RedEye, and the more I thought about it, the more it actually boggled my mind, and the more I agreed.

How could there be an exclusively Werewolf issue that isn't comparable to an existing Human issue? It's a fun game to try and come up with a totally unique Werewolf issue, and then find out which Human problem one had subconsciously used as a template to create that.

[Bloodyredbaron]

Bloody Red...
I think you mistake what I meant. To me, the question asked "What problems would being a Werewolf cause... as in apart from being a Standard Issue Human.
Really, my Werewolves do have problems, and lots of them. Anyone who has read any of the "Wulfen" series knows I love to load my Were's with problems, then let them solve them. I watch and write what I "see".
It's just that S.I. Humans can have the exact same problems, sans fur and fangs. S.I. Humans can have MORE problems than Werewolves.
The question to me was an exceptional case; as in problems unique to Werewolves and nothing else.
Still haven't found any. Fleas don't count. Humans get them too.

I stand corrected.

[Alteron]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was reading through the forum and spotted this one and wanted to throw in my two cents, maybe see if anyone else has thought of anything to add, and as far as I know the forum rule is still 'add to existing thread rather than make a new one'.... If I am incorrect, please accept my apologies.

Alright, as a quick note; my shifters have a physical need to shift and hunt that is comparable to the need to sleep, you can ignore it and force yourself to do without, but only for so long and the negative side effects mount FAST. You can go crazy, hallucinate, etc and the symptoms will get worse and worse till you ‘black out’, the minds higher functions shut down and you shift and/or start hunting and will wake up with no clear memories of what happened.

Because your scent isn’t ‘human’ many animals will react differently to you-skittish animals, like many horses, might even totally freak out from your scent.
Because there is a drive to hunt, small ‘prey’ pets like rabbits and rats may REALLY freak out if you go near them or handle them
Your dietary needs are going to change; you’d need more protein, fats, calcium, a TON of keratin, salts and other minerals and vitamins. So you’d need to eat more and watch out for certain foods. Nature is lazy, odds are your internal organs will switch to something not quite human and not quite wolf and just stay like that and move around rather than completely change between forms. Odds are it’d be closest to humans; we’ve got a wider range of foods we can eat after all, technically the better system for survival purposes.
There’d be mental issues, of course: people who go feral, people who start to enjoy the hunt too much, people who become super aggressive, depressed, suicidal… those who can’t control the shift, those who refuse to…
Physical issues: cancer might be a concern, if your body thinks that the cancer cells are ‘normal’ and thus doesn’t correct it during the shift. Joint problems might become an issue, the regen may break down or loose its effect with age… lots of things
Financial-even if you buy dog food (on a side note: many dog kibbles spray rancid oil on the food to make the dogs want to eat it and list meat BY PRODUCT or CORN as a first ingredient and canines can’t process corn, it’s a worthless filler! Make sure you read the ingredient list for any dog or cat food you buy) you’d need more food than an average person AND you’d need more carbs/sugars/fats so you had something to burn as fuel for the change-which means you’d probably be either a bit overweight by TODAY’S SOCIETY CONCEPTS or you’d be underweight and in danger of burning muscle mass to power the shift… that is NOT GOOD for your health
Higher metabolism means medicines hit fast and wear off faster, also the higher body temperature could cause issues in states with high temperatures-heat stroke is not your friend! You’d need to make sure you can shift and the like without being spotted.
Watch out for cars and the like in animal form! Plus, watch out for people who shoot at ‘pests/vermin!’
Even if you don’t like animals owning a pet with similar fur type/color to your other form is a fantastic cover for any of your shed fur or sightings… related: what happens if you are ALLERGIC to animal dander/animals?
Considering that the spinal column changes in length while that might repair any nerve damage there is a possibility that in rare cases seizures and other problems may result…
Even in human form, odds are your senses are different, which means you react differently to other stimuli…
There WOULD be issues, even if you go for an ‘ideal’ WW and not a ‘horror film WW’.

[Trinity]

Because there is a drive to hunt, small ‘prey’ pets like rabbits and rats may REALLY freak out if you go near them or handle them’.

IE die of fright. It was one of the things we talked about back when I was in 4H (for rabbits). If we had a cage outside to make sure it was under some kind of cover. If the rabbit was flighty enough it could just die of fright when a hawk or eagle shadow flew over it. Generally speaking most rabbits are fairly hardy and don't generally die of fright if you say "boo" or such. But, still, they are sensitive creatures and have been known to die of fright in the right circumstances.

I can see some little girl trying to hand her pet bunny over to a werewolf, and have it dead in their hands a moment later. Or have it so wigged out that it claws the owner in an attempt to get away and dies later behind the couch from a heart attack. ;)

[Alteron]

IE die of fright. It was one of the things we talked about back when I was in 4H (for rabbits). If we had a cage outside to make sure it was under some kind of cover. If the rabbit was flighty enough it could just die of fright when a hawk or eagle shadow flew over it. Generally speaking most rabbits are fairly hardy and don't generally die of fright if you say "boo" or such. But, still, they are sensitive creatures and have been known to die of fright in the right circumstances.

I can see some little girl trying to hand her pet bunny over to a werewolf, and have it dead in their hands a moment later. Or have it so wigged out that it claws the owner in an attempt to get away and dies later behind the couch from a heart attack. ;)

*nods* Yeah, while I was working at a animal rescue site we had a rabbit die of fright, though we think that was in part because it was a 'rescue' and already 'tense'. It got loose while we were trying to de-flea him and got spooked by the 'vet dog'.
I didn't mention the dying of fright as, as you mentioned, they are decently hardy creatures and thus they wouldn't always die... the rats almost certainly wouldn't... hamsters might though, I'm not sure. Most of my interaction with pets like that was in my rescue work, which is not the best example set.

But yeah, my WWs (and werecats) have almost as many disadvantages as advantages, even if they are not evil... To me it makes a more interesting story.
They had a 'drive to hunt' mostly becuase of observations I've had of big cats and wolves that I've worked with, as well as domestic cats and dogs... I have seen these predators eat their full... then go and stalk/chase and play with prey (granted it WAS a 'ratter terrier' and 'barn cat'). They aren't hungry, it really seems to be a innate desire/need to hunt, even humans seem to have it to an extent.
Having said drive could also explain why WWs would hunt in the modern era and, if ignored, could explain many WW attacks in the older mythologies. Nice, pat, little result having it where if they try to resist the change a similar result can occur worked well in my mind.

*shrugs* Sorry, bit tired IRL... had to wake up early and am going on little sleep, so my apologies if this is disjointed ^_^;;

[Meeper]

And just think of how much shampoo you would have to go through. I'm high maintainenced enough. I don't need to spend more money on shampoo than I already do.

Heh, I sat through a conversation about pet dogs a while ago, one particular point was raised about the amazing self cleaning abilities of huskies, they'd come in at night caked in mud, but by morning they're immaculate. I read that wolf fur rejects ice formation, so who knows, we may be surprised how little shampoo a werewolf would need.

[Silvermane]

Problems could be many, depending on the exact mythos, I am so going to write a lengthy post here.

Moon: If the full moon indicates when a werewolf shape shifts, then the person would have to revolve their whole entire life around the phases of the moon. If we get really scientific the full moon only happens for maybe a few hours one night, but I think we can all agree at least three nights works. When those nights show up the person would have to prep to restrain themselves if they can't control themselves and or hide out some where so that no one follows or catches them in transformation. here in lies another problem if you have your life all set up with everything, what happens when you suddenly get bitten? Do you have to move to the woods or some place rural? Do you stay in the city and risk the threat of being caught or shot? So many issues spring to mind. Would you tell anyone? What about your family how do you explain the sudden need to move to the middle of now where? What does your employer think whenever you call in sick the nights after the full moon?

Not Moon: So let's leave behind the full moon transforming and go with the much more simpler you can control your shift. I say simpler but you would still have to find areas where no one else would find out about your deep dark secret. The moon may not trigger an unexpected shift but do your emotions? What if certain scents, feelings, tastes, even touches send the fur flying?

Regardless of how the shifting happens there are some problems I can see right off. The age old, clothing issue. When you shift unless you undress first, your going to ruin your cloths, when you come back, do you really want to be wearing cloths that have sat in the woods all night? For that matter do you think you could find them again?

What about food? Would you eat more meat? There goes your balanced kitchen supplies. What about the family dog? Do you and it get along or does the dog fear you, hate you, etc.

So many potential problems would be interesting to say the least.

[Scott Gardener]

At one point in one of my novel drafts, I had someone suspecting. She noticed they had plenty of wild game in the refridgerator but no gun. The give away turned out to be a classic folklore one. Rhe lady's husband shot the wolf in his forepaw, and the next day the man had his hand wrapped "from an accident."

[JoshuaMadoc]

Has "petty pack squabbles and overfocus on packs and pack statuses" been mentioned yet? It's a problem that's not only on a narrative and plot aspect, but it can also be a real man-made problem caused by, at the very least, the manufactured need to enforce their flawed definition of how to act like a werewolf (namely "oh man I gotta sniff asses and sleep under trees now because... uh... that's what werewolves do!").

[Terastas]

Just so you know, this is all based on what I've written of the werewolves in Inhuman. Which derived a lot of inspiration from input at the Pack, but which may or may not reflect the opinions of the Pack as a whole.

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#1: Dehydration
The first thing that develops after infection is an overactive immune system, which filters more content out of the body and filters it out more often. This makes werewolves much more resistant against poisons and diseases, but at the expense of making them much more prone to bouts of vomiting and diarrhea, which can be fatal if the werewolf does not stay adequately hydrated.

#2: Hallucinations, etc.
Before lycanthropy can force the werewolf to shapeshift, it alters the body into a more (for lack of a better word) "fluid" state that is capable of shapeshifting. This includes altering the body's chemical compositions, including in the brain. This can have any number of side effects. Headaches and dizziness are the most common, but the most well-known of are nightmares and hallucinations.

Hallucinations are not the most common of side effects, but they are the most frequently talked about among werewolves. This is because newcomers to the pack often worry that their symptoms will be interpreted as a sign of weakness or mental instability. Or worse, the werewolf may attribute his vision to some supernatural means (it is not uncommon for rogue werewolves to express some sense of a higher calling). Werewolves are therefore encouraged to talk about their own (or even to just make something up if they haven't had any) to encourage newcomers to be more at ease with whatever they are experiencing.

#3: Muscle aches, joint pain, spasms
It isn't just during the shift into wolf form that the werewolf's body is shifting. The "fluid" body is continually in a state of alteration. Usually negligibly so, but aches, stabbing sensations and "poltergeist" uncontrollable movements still occur as a result. It's at its worst when the werewolf is still in a state of transition (it's not uncommon for a werewolf to be bedridden during this state). The worst of it only lasts for a day or two, but it never completely goes away.

#4: Fatal distortions
Simply put, the first involuntary shift can be fatal, especially if the werewolf is not fully adapted to their lycanthropy.

#5: Shock / Traumatic Stress
There's no accurate way to describe how it feels to have your body distorted into a completely different form, except to say that the experience is anything but pleasant. It's by no means uncommon for a werewolf to go into shock or snap under the intense pain and lash out, sometimes in madness, other times in the hopes that his surrounding packmates will knock him out.

#6: Sensory confusion
The werewolf form comes with a completely new set of sensory organs: The eyes, ears and nose are all different. As such, a werewolf in were-form will experience the world in a completely different way -- a way that his otherwise still human brain was not programmed to translating. The most common response to these new sensations is, in fact, to assume that they're hallucinating again, which can make things difficult if his packmates are trying to communicate with him.

Most werewolves in a modern-day pack were infected by other werewolves that were presently in this sensory-confused state. Which I'll tie in with my next entry.

#7: Infectiousness
Lycanthropy is only transmissible by blood; that much the werewolves are sure of. The problem is that being a "fluid" shapeshifter causes them to bleed more easily. A werewolf's saliva, for example, won't transmit lycanthropy, but the constant shifting often causes a werewolf's gums to bleed, so an infection is possible due to infected blood mixed in with his saliva.

The other part of the body where werewolves are known to commonly bleed is the cuticles; scratches can cause infection because they have their own blood under their fingernails.

Werewolves don't actively spread the curse, and in fact, most would consider it preferable if the human "familiars" in their pack were in the majority. Their human members tend not to stay human for very long, however, because of how relatively easy it is for one to be infected. Most get infected by first-time shifters who won't even be fully aware of what they are doing, and most familiars are infected due to deceptively simple mistakes or lapses in judgment. Something as simple as helping a werewolf stand up, for example, can result in a scratch and infection.

#8: Paranoia
No werewolf that would have been in a position to have some true insight into the nature / history of lycanthropy has survived to this day, so even the eldest of the werewolves are all but completely in the dark about the nature of their condition. A werewolf couldn't tell you, for example, whether lycanthropy is a virus, bacterium or a curse. He also couldn't tell you what foods you should eat or avoid to keep your immune system from kicking it into overdrive again, precisely what kind of symptoms to expect from your lycanthropy (much less how to mitigate them), or what other parts of your body you may be bleeding from secreting blood from (much less whether it's enough to infect someone else with).

They probably couldn't even tell you what their plans for the future are. Early on, werewolves need to accustom themselves to living with a lot of uncertainty.

#9: Cynicism
The biggest perk of being a werewolf is the regeneration. It comes at the expense of making them a real life Ren & Stimpy cartoon, but still, most will tell you that's a small price to pay and one they're accustomed to dealing with.

But the thing is that, though they can heal from much and can heal relatively quickly, they are by no means immortal. So the general perspective of lycanthropic regeneration is that it is a guarantee, not that they will live forever, but that their eventual death will be something they wouldn't even wish on their worst enemies. After all, if it wasn't completely brutal and bloody, they'd eventually recover from it.

As such, werewolves tend to lean much further to the side of cynicism. They don't know when they're going to die, but they've got a pretty good idea of how.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Just so you know, this is all based on what I've written of the werewolves in Inhuman. Which derived a lot of inspiration from input at the Pack, but which may or may not reflect the opinions of the Pack as a whole.

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#9: Cynicism
The biggest perk of being a werewolf is the regeneration. It comes at the expense of making them a real life Ren & Stimpy cartoon, but still, most will tell you that's a small price to pay and one they're accustomed to dealing with.

But the thing is that, though they can heal from much and can heal relatively quickly, they are by no means immortal. So the general perspective of lycanthropic regeneration is that it is a guarantee, not that they will live forever, but that their eventual death will be something they wouldn't even wish on their worst enemies. After all, if it wasn't completely brutal and bloody, they'd eventually recover from it.

As such, werewolves tend to lean much further to the side of cynicism. They don't know when they're going to die, but they've got a pretty good idea of how.

If they're not immortal, what about old age? Or does their regeneration make it sorta like wolverine, that he can live a long time without aging? I'm also thinking about diseases that affect the nervous system... wow, that is a big downside isn't it? Ouch...

[Terastas]

If they're not immortal, what about old age? Or does their regeneration make it sorta like wolverine, that he can live a long time without aging? I'm also thinking about diseases that affect the nervous system... wow, that is a big downside isn't it? Ouch...

That's the general idea. Lycanthropy has the body in a state of constant regeneration, which can cancel out the effects of aging. Werewolves only tend to show their age in their facial complexions. A werewolf will eventually have gray hair and wrinkles, but his regeneration and overactive immune system will prevent his health or fitness from deteriorating.

At least that's what the werewolves think. As far as they know, no werewolf has even survived past the age of sixty yet.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Okay... small question...
Would some werewolves want to figure out how they are werewolves to the point they'd become scientists and start studying their brethren in your world?

[Scott Gardener]

Two of mine did start some research, sneaking in after hours with a grad student. But, their research got interrupted by getting chased by, ironicly enough, an underground organization that ended up putting them in a lab.

[Terastas]

Okay... small question...
Would some werewolves want to figure out how they are werewolves to the point they'd become scientists and start studying their brethren in your world?

True. But easier said than done. Most werewolves consider themselves lucky to have a physician to help them fudge on their medical records, never mind a doctorate in microbiology.

Plus, even if they could somehow simultaneously juggle all the stress of being a werewolf along with all of the stress of getting a doctorate, the degree doesn't come with a free laboratory; they would still need to invest a substantial sum into providing the facilities and equipment needed to conduct such a study.

And even if they could somehow get the money together to open their own lab, and get enough of their pack members the necessary skills to study it, the whole thing could still easily go kaput if any of the many arms of Uncle Sam ask what it is that they're doing in there.

There are people out there that would be willing to provide that for the study of lycanthropy, but generally for all the wrong reasons. So it's generally considered preferable to deal with the unknown by themselves than the consequences of being known to everyone else in the world.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Okay... small question...
Would some werewolves want to figure out how they are werewolves to the point they'd become scientists and start studying their brethren in your world?

True. But easier said than done. Most werewolves consider themselves lucky to have a physician to help them fudge on their medical records, never mind a doctorate in microbiology.

Plus, even if they could somehow simultaneously juggle all the stress of being a werewolf along with all of the stress of getting a doctorate, the degree doesn't come with a free laboratory; they would still need to invest a substantial sum into providing the facilities and equipment needed to conduct such a study.

And even if they could somehow get the money together to open their own lab, and get enough of their pack members the necessary skills to study it, the whole thing could still easily go kaput if any of the many arms of Uncle Sam ask what it is that they're doing in there.

There are people out there that would be willing to provide that for the study of lycanthropy, but generally for all the wrong reasons. So it's generally considered preferable to deal with the unknown by themselves than the consequences of being known to everyone else in the world.

Accepted.
i do remember a series i was reading in which on of the werewolves fell in love with a doctor who could figure out how to help with their first change. even though the werewolves might not become doctors... could their be humans related to them/friends who want to help that become them instead?
Yes, there are humans who would do everything in their power to destroy them, or use them... but, there is the possiblity that there are some close to them who wish to help. just a thought...

[Terastas]

Accepted.
i do remember a series i was reading in which on of the werewolves fell in love with a doctor who could figure out how to help with their first change. even though the werewolves might not become doctors... could their be humans related to them/friends who want to help that become them instead?
Yes, there are humans who would do everything in their power to destroy them, or use them... but, there is the possiblity that there are some close to them who wish to help. just a thought...

There are also those who would think they are doing the werewolves good when they are actually doing harm, those who could not prevent themselves from doing the werewolves harm no matter how much they tried not to, those who would only do the werewolves good with some expectation of personal gain, etc., etc.

The reality is that it takes a pretty specific kind of individual to be able to live as a werewolf or among werewolves effectively and responsibly. Every time they bring a new member into the pack, they risk total exposure -- risk compromising the entire pack. Which is a lot more than any werewolf with half a thought in his head should be willing to risk just for the sake of convenience.

Besides, how would you feel if you were given the impression that a werewolf had revealed his true nature to you only because he thought you'd be useful?

[Scott Gardener]

After seeing "How It Should Have Ended" videos on YouTube for an hour, I found myself imagining how my novel should have ended, which made for a very short book...

Scott Gardener lies on the forest floor, weary and exhaused, staring at disbelief. The creature that was moments earlier a black wolf stands upright, becoming vaguely the likeness of a human woman, but with a wolf's head, tail, and a body covered in fur. She lunges forward, ready to bite.

Then, she stops, sniffing. Her ears flick, and she shifts more human, digitigrade hindpaws becoming almost feet, and a nearly human face appearing, a dark-skinned woman, who speaks. "You're already a werewolf?"

"Yes," Scott answers. "Why are you so surprised? Haven't you read history? Are you from outer space? There hasn't been a non-lycanthropic human in the world in over 400 years. The virus offered such a huge survival advantage back in the Middle Ages that all of Europe was converted by the mid-1400s. When explorers went to India and China and sailed to the New World, lycanthropy spread quickly with them, and by 1600, everyone was a werewolf."