Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Morkulv »

lovec1990 wrote:
Morkulv wrote:In my opinion werewolves would be like wolves. Wolves are not loners like cats, they are social animals. So I think that after transforming, if the possibility of forming a pack is there he or she would take it.

Just like with normal wolves, I don't think werewolves would just take on other animals by itself. Wolves are clever animals and work together, so I think werewolves should reflect that.
i see diffrent opinions on werewolfs in my view werewolfs have human mentality so each werewolf is diffrent some are loners some are not.

lets forget about this social stuff here is question about one werewolf.
But humans are social animals as well. A lone human hunter in the stone age was a dead hunter. I think this should apply to werewolves too.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Morkulv we are social, but some of us can be loners, besides OP wants to know what animal can one werewolf that is alone defeat in combat.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Yeah. Wolves here in North America (in packs) occasionally take on (and successfully take down) bison. That's about the biggest -- or at least heaviest animal on this continent (not to mention surly bastards to boot). A wolf would not be taking the likes of that all alone. I've seen footage of a wolf squaring off with a coyote about half its weight, and deciding the potential meal wasn't worth the risk. For wolves apparently "alone" versus "with-the-pack" is a huge dividing line.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform you are right but from i read OP posts he is intrested in fight between animal and werewolf in hybrid form so we cannot just take capabilities of the wolf
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Meeper »

The debate over what a solitary werewolf would actually do, and the question of what a solitary werewolf is ultimately capable of, need to be separated.

The question was: What is a solitary werewolf capable of? The premise of the question assumes nothing about will, but rather brute physical attributes pushed to their realistic limits, which is the question I'm going to offer my thoughts on.

An average, decently "In shape" human is what? About 160-185 pounds? give or take a few. I don't know what wolves weigh in at, but I imagine it's in a similar ballpark. I've pondered aloud this blend of attributes in other topics but I'll briefly summarize: A 180 pound morphic/gestalt werewolf is in my estimation about comparable to a big cat of similar weight, a little less speed/power, a little more endurance, and dull but dextrous claws with the versatility to find exploits in far less dextrous animal limbs. You're probably looking at single highhandedly taking down deer upto perhaps 300 pounds as matter of routine, doing what wolves do by attacking extremities I imagine the average deer doesn't run too well when rugby tackled by something 2/3rds its own weight. I also imagine seeing off other predators upto about the same weight as said werewolf, or in some cases maybe a little larger is a like-for-like no brainer to call. There's too much rock/paper/scissors going on with this broad mushy spectrum of predators our imaginary werewolf would be dealing with to call it definitively.

That said, one comparison I am willing to consider are other "natural" wolves. I honestly suspect that putting a real wolf up against a werewolf would be bad for the wolf, simply because the werewolf has more weapons. You could think of a strong pair of grappling hands with even dull claws as almost as bad as having another two sets of jaws at your disposal. In effect one werewolf is in some ways comparable to three normal wolves in a one-on-one confrontation, but similarly three wolves on one werewolf would be bad news for the werewolf, because those extra weapons are more mobile and independent, which really is moving up into fabled "super organism" territory that is a wolf pack. I'm not going to get into macho arguments about how much stronger and more effective teeth would be than a clawed hand, they both have their merits, and all they have to do is critically damage a soft spot, for which they'd both be to varying degrees effective.

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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Okay, dumb question: What would be the difference between a hybrid-form werewolf and a normal human armed with a pair of melee weapons like trench knives or short swords or something? Personally, I would view a werewolf as being more than able to take on a Grizzly, but the idea of myself taking on such a surly animal armed only with a couple of sharpened implements isn't exactly appealing. I can't give you a fantastically good reason why, but I have this knee-jerk inclination to view the werewolf as inherently stronger / faster / tougher, etc. than a lowly human of equal size, and inherently by a rather wide margin. Also, werewolf regeneration (because it's a shapeshifter) I would think would factor in -- much greater willingness to accept injury.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Okay, dumb question: [b]What would be the difference between a hybrid-form werewolf and a normal human armed with a pair of melee weapons like trench knives or short swords or something?[/b] Personally, I would view a werewolf as being more than able to take on a Grizzly, but the idea of myself taking on such a surly animal armed only with a couple of sharpened implements isn't exactly appealing. I can't give you a fantastically good reason why, but I have this knee-jerk inclination to view the werewolf as inherently stronger / faster / tougher, etc. than a lowly human of equal size, and inherently by a rather wide margin. Also, werewolf regeneration (because it's a shapeshifter) I would think would factor in -- much greater willingness to accept injury.
hybrid-form werewolf is stronger,faster, has better reflexes and is more agile than human with weapons
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Meeper »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Okay, dumb question: What would be the difference between a hybrid-form werewolf and a normal human armed with a pair of melee weapons like trench knives or short swords or something? Personally, I would view a werewolf as being more than able to take on a Grizzly, but the idea of myself taking on such a surly animal armed only with a couple of sharpened implements isn't exactly appealing. I can't give you a fantastically good reason why, but I have this knee-jerk inclination to view the werewolf as inherently stronger / faster / tougher, etc. than a lowly human of equal size, and inherently by a rather wide margin. Also, werewolf regeneration (because it's a shapeshifter) I would think would factor in -- much greater willingness to accept injury.
Well I deliberately avoided that complexity, but since you ask.

I think the likes of the matador (bull fighter, whatever it's called) demonstrates how to kill a large animal of greater physical prowess with knives. Sure, out of bounds to the "Average" human, but proof it can be done by someone playing to their human strengths.

I'm not sure really how far the regeneration and healing angle really assists things, it works great for a horror story, but I think Ive weighed in on that elsewhere on the forum, the only thing that gets you is fewer long term injury related issues. In the heat of a fight, a severed tendon is still severed, that muscle is still going to fail, and you're still screwed if your opponent presses the advantage, whether or not the injury is permanent impediment. I guess in the end if you can recover from any injury then you will eventually win, or at least you can't lose, so it's kind of seems pointless even discussing the other considerations.

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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

As for the matador example, bulls are monumentally stupid creatures. You can show them the same move limitless times and they will never learn. They'll always go for the movement no matter how many times that approach fails. Also, although fast, they are not particularly agile. They are also herbivores. If you were to put that matador in the ring with an enraged grizzly bear, you just might get a different outcome.

As for regeneration, if injury is not a long term issue, you are free to press your attack much more aggressively than a non-supernatural would. Ordinary wolves actually aren't all that aggressive in reality. Fights risk injury and in the wild, all too often injury is a death sentence. If you're not going to have to worry about bleeding out or getting a fatal infection, you have a great deal more freedom in combat. Sure, an injury is just as debilitating in the short term, but most injuries aren't immediately fatal or crippling. You can be fatally wounded and keep on going like nothing is wrong -- for a time at least. People on phencyclidine have proven that.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Meeper »

Hence the ritualistic pomp of the matador. The fact remains that no such ceremony is required, a killing stroke could be dealt at any time. As such your bear only has one opportunity to make that mistake, by which time learning may be of no benefit anyway. Of course, that door swings both ways, and I'm not pretending it's going to be easy.

*Edit*

Sorry, I was feeling sick earlier, I couldn't focus properly on my reply. What I meant was that regeneration can mean many different things, which is why I'm not sure what exactly to make of it, and what it does for the werewolf. You can tailor any given version of the concept to fit any given scenario. I've seen people go from "My werewolves can can take being shot a few times including in major organs" to "My werewoves can be put through a meat grinder and reform" to "My werewolves can be regenerate from being shot, stabbed, hanged drawn and quartered, cut into one inch cubes and fed to my cats, the poo incinerated and the ashes spread over a football field where several matches are then played, left to gather 20 million years of volcanic rock and ash, the whole planet shot into the sun, which then goes super nova, because fricken werewolf!!". It's just one of those variable things I originally decided not to deal with.

Since I'm on the subject of regeneration, sorry to go off topic here but I've been wondering on and off for a while where that actually comes from. I've no sources to confirm this, but my theory traces it back to the idea of dead man walking. If you have the plague or something, then it's a sure fire bet you're a gonner. From there comes the notion you're already dead, yet you still move (till the disease kills you anyway). To the ignorant mind that doesn't understand that and takes it literally, the next step is "You cannot kill what doth not live". Ergo like a piece of rock, it has no life to extinguish, yet it is mobile, the assumption then is that the mobile state isn't going to change, you're immortal. These come together to form the idea that you can absorb any injury without losing the thing that makes you move. The last step is trying to rationalize how something can endlessly absorb injury without eventually disintegrating, oh I know, regeneration! Forgive my grammar errors, I'll clean that up later, maybe. This is probably completely obvious o most of you guys, or I just got it entirely wrong and made a silly of myself. But anyway, I have a hard time just accepting regeneration on mos of the levels it tends to be implied, but am willing to entertain it as afeature that solves logic problems.

I think I need a nap :lol: .

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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Ok,

question for you guys:

You are a werewolf that is 7ft tall and weighting 220 lb with strenght of 10 avarage men of same weight and you are facing Grizzly bear weighting 790 lb how would you kill it?
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

With a rifle from very far away -- like any sane person... :D

But assuming the more traditional weapons of the werewolf, going for the throat (as in literally) makes the most sense. I reiterate my earlier post: Regeneration is the major factor here. If you're a werewolf with regeneration, you have greater freedom in a combat than without it since only wounds that are immediately fatal or nearly so are a concern. Non-supernatural beings do not have that advantage and cannot reasonably press their attacks as vigorously.

So, all things being equal, the werewolf ought to win that fight.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform and how will you go for the throat, becouse bear will not stay still and lets say you heal three times faster than normal human?
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

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lovec1990 wrote:Uniform and how will you go for the throat, becouse bear will not stay still...
:? Um -- the same way that normal wolves do?
lovec1990 wrote:...and lets say you heal three times faster than normal human?
Well, if that's how fast your werewolf "regenerates", then it's not really what I think of as "regeneration" so much as just moderately faster-than-normal healing (admittedly an artificial distinction since "regeneration" and "healing" are technically synonymous terms). If regeneration is the basis for the legend of the werewolf being highly resistant to injury from anything except silver (which would presume that silver somehow inhibits said regeneration), then presumably such regeneration would have to be rather more rapid than you imply. Otherwise werewolves would be (more or less) just as susceptible to physical injury as everyone else. That, however would also imply that it's metabolic rate be such that it would take six months to complete a shapeshift.
:thpt2:
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform Two Six wrote:
lovec1990 wrote:Uniform and how will you go for the throat, becouse bear will not stay still...
:? Um -- the same way that normal wolves do?

Well i was talking for hybrid form so werewolf will fight diffrently than in wolf form and normaly wolfs attack in pack, but here you are on your own and as i said it bear will not be still and becouse of him wighting more he has an advantage
Uniform Two Six wrote:
lovec1990 wrote:...and lets say you heal three times faster than normal human?
Well, if that's how fast your werewolf "regenerates", then it's not really what I think of as "regeneration" so much as just moderately faster-than-normal healing (admittedly an artificial distinction since "regeneration" and "healing" are technically synonymous terms). If regeneration is the basis for the legend of the werewolf being highly resistant to injury from anything except silver (which would presume that silver somehow inhibits said regeneration), then presumably such regeneration would have to be rather more rapid than you imply. Otherwise werewolves would be (more or less) just as susceptible to physical injury as everyone else. That, however would also imply that it's metabolic rate be such that it would take six months to complete a shapeshift.
:thpt2:
Well if healing is more rapid people will be more suspicious as: hey how did you heal your broken arm so fast? im not sure if healing would be diffrent in human form.

Well i was thinking that werewolf is toughter than human for example you slash a human with knife and produce 1cm deep wound while werewolfs wound would be only 3mm so what they lose with healing time they gain with toughtnes of their bodies.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Kveldulf »

I'd say a polar bear or a large grizzly would be a pretty fair match for a werewolf, one-on-one. Similar strength levels (at least by me); the bear has the advantage of mass and that thick layer of padding, but if the werewolf has regeneration or invulnerability-except-to-whatever-magical/special material, that would make up for it (though even with those abilities, getting batted about like a Wiffle ball, thrown into trees, etc., is not going to be a lot of fun). The werewolf is likely more agile, and wolf-instincts would have him or her probably darting about and going for the hamstrings and the like.

Of course, wolf-instincts would probably, in the first place, say something sensible like, "Sod this for a game of soldiers, I'm taking off now and coming back with my WHOLE PACK". Or possibly just grab the bear's stash of salmon while its head was turned and hightail it (sorry) for a nice quiet spot in the woods to enjoy a dinner of wolf sashimi, as natural wolves have been known to do in the wild.

Large felines could be a very interesting match-up as well. Really coming down, I think, to how effective the cat's natural weapons are against the specifics of the werewolf, and possibly whether the werewolf in question actually had sharp enough claws to use them effectively as a weapon in turn.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Chance »

If you're gonna bring lions , tigers, and bears into the mix then we have to suggest Hyenas. I went looking for info on this "As well-known scavengers of Africa, hyenas have exceptionally powerful jaws, whose bite force is measured at 1,100 pounds per square inch (psi)" Youch!

They might not be the biggest of creatures but they are not small either. They're quick and with a jaw force like that , they are def an animal that could put up a fight. Even with the werewolf having arms to swing and hands to grasp if the hyena gets a good bite that's a broken bone for the werewolf.
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Re: Strongest animal a werewolf could go toe to toe with?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Chance wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:49 am ... if the hyena gets a good bite that's a broken bone for the werewolf.
Hmmm... Maybe. But that presupposes that the werewolf (with all of its physical strength) doesn't have more robust than human-average skeletal build. If those hyena jaws are made of bone too, then it comes down to which set of bones break first.
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