Lycanthropy treated in a positive light - not a curse

[vrikasatma]

There's another trend in media that concerns me.

When I was living in California, my World of Darkness troupe had a main storyteller whose thing was Mage, and he had a somewhat antagonistic view of Werewolves. He portrayed them as big, bumbling twerps with an anger problem.

That stuck in my craw and was one of the pushes towards me taking over the WW storytelling end of the troupe. I used humour but was generally very respectful towards the Garou/Fera and it showed in my house rules, two being that:

- The War of Rage didn't happen, because werewolves have a Moon connection. Moon = Wisdom. Wise creatures don't commit genocide. (Besides, the metaplot dumped altogether too much on the Garou's plate. Isn't a losing battle against Corruption enough?)

- With the Garou's Moon connection, every auspice gets at least one point of Wisdom renown to start. Galliards have to sing everyone's song, so they need to know how everyone thinks; Ahroun work best when they know how and when to hit, as well as where; Philodoxen's judgments are best when guided by Wisdom; et alia.

[blackwolfhell]

Yeah!!!! But some do have anger problems, not all.
And yes. Werewolves do not commit Genocide. That would be their wolf sides preventing that

[Bloodyredbaron]

Yeah!!!! But some do have anger problems, not all.
And yes. vampires do not commit Genocide. That would be their wolf sides preventing that :defenestrate: :oo

Really? I'm writing a book about werewolves who commit genocide. This is because none of my research in the matter has turned up werewolves=/=genocide.

[Vagrant]

This is because none of my research in the matter has turned up were-wolves=/=genocide.

Perhaps this may implicate biased and selective research? It wouldn't be the first time in history that someone researched selectively in order to support their own take on things, as opposed to unbiased and objective research.

Even if we're dealing with historic (as opposed to contemporary, such as in, say, films and cinema) references, there are many examples which show were-wolves in a different light. I submit for your viewing pleasure:

- The Lai of Bisclavret, the tale of a were-wolf who fought for noble human beliefs.
- German were-wolf legends often present were-wolves as simple hunters, as opposed to beasts of genocide.
- White Wolf Woman is a nice book which details Native American lycanthropic tales, these tales put a very positive spin on things (and also contains accounts of other critters, not just Wolves).

I would posit, BRB, that the were-wolf and what one is willing to see in the were-wolf draws greatly upon the individual and their Id. Legends of lycanthropy can be as varied and diverse as the people who write them, but what you find is strongly defined by what you're looking for.

So your research is merely a reflection of yourself and what you, personally, want out of were-wolves, and it shouldn't be anything more than that. If you choose to ignore the World outside your own take on were-wolves, then that is your prerogative.

[Edited: Fixed one URL, the vampire/werewolf replacing stuff actually replaces stuff in the [url] field, too, oops!]

[Bloodyredbaron]

This is because none of my research in the matter has turned up were-wolves=/=genocide.

Perhaps this may implicate biased and selective research? It wouldn't be the first time in history that someone researched selectively in order to support their own take on things, as opposed to unbiased and objective research.

Even if we're dealing with historic (as opposed to contemporary, such as in, say, films and cinema) references, there is many examples which show were-wolves in a different light. I submit for your viewing pleasure:

- The Lai of Bisclavret, the tale of a were-wolf who fought for noble human beliefs.
- German were-wolf legends often present were-wolves as simple hunters, as opposed to beasts of genocide.
- White Wolf Woman is a nice book which details Native American lycanthropic tales, these tales put a very positive spin on things.

Unfortunately you once again misinterpret what I'm trying to say. I sense a distinct pattern emerging.

Blackwolfhell had this to say about the issue of werewolves committing genocide:

And yes. vampires do not commit Genocide. That would be their wolf sides preventing that

To put it simply his choice of words would seem to indicate that because they are part animal a werewo lf would never, ever commit genocide. There is nothing in my research or the links you provided to indicate this, those links you just shoved in my face oh so smugly don’t prove that werewol ves can’t commit the same kind of atrocities humans can, just that under certain circumstances an individual or group of werewol ves can, in fact, work towards a good cause.

I would posit, BRB, that the were-wolf and what one is willing to see in the were-wolf draws greatly upon the individual and their Id. Legends of lycanthropy can be as varied and diverse as the people who write them, but what you find is strongly defined by what you're looking for.

So your research is merely a reflection of yourself and what you, personally, want out of were-wolves, and it shouldn't be anything more than that. If you choose to ignore the World outside your own take on were-wolves, then that is your prerogative.

I'm not the one defending someone who just said that werewolves can't do evil things like genocide because they're part wolf.

This site is always drilling the theory that "werewol ves are just people to" into our heads. Well, guess what guys? People can do terrible things, and by following the p a c k's line of reasoning, so can werewol ves.

[blackwolfhell]

That's cruel. Writing a book on werewolf genocide!

[JoshuaMadoc]

That's cruel. Writing a book on werewolf genocide!

So is skewing the real meaning behind the swastika.

[blackwolfhell]

Ohhhh! Sorry. You meant the killing of werewolves, not werewolves killing humans!
HA HA HA HA I misunderstood. Sorry.

[Wingman]

Ohhhh! Sorry. You meant the killing of werewolves, not werewolves killing humans!
HA HA HA HA I misunderstood. Sorry.

So, it's cruel for werewolves to kill humans, but it's not cruel for humans to kill werewolves? I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused.

[blackwolfhell]

No...It would depend on who was doing what. Like the human race was extremely destroying the earth, then maybe, or if werewolves were out of control, then maybe, but in most cases, I'm against genocide.

[Bloodyredbaron]

In my book the werewolves are the ones commiting the genocide. On wererats. And basically any other shape shifter race that offends their sky beautiful wolfy eyes.

[blackwolfhell]

Oh. Do you think I could read this book?

[Bloodyredbaron]

Oh. Do you think I could read this book?

As soon as I put together a half decent first chapter I'll make it available to anyone who wants to read it. Or some other sample. Right now I'm just writing down notes and fighting through the writers block.

[blackwolfhell]

If you need help, I'm here!

[Gevaudan]

This site is always drilling the theory that "werewol ves are just people to" into our heads. Well, guess what guys? People can do terrible things, and by following the p a c k's line of reasoning, so can werewol ves.

Not all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic. The werewolf itself does not inspire murderous tendencies; rather it's the person inside that already wants to kill everybody. Yes, "werewolves are people too," which means they are subject to the entire range of human emotions and personalities, from peace-loving to vengeful.

[Berserker]

This site is always drilling the theory that "werewol ves are just people to" into our heads. Well, guess what guys? People can do terrible things, and by following the p a c k's line of reasoning, so can werewol ves.

Not all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic. The werewolf itself does not inspire murderous tendencies; rather it's the person inside that already wants to kill everybody. Yes, "werewolves are people too," which means they are subject to the entire range of human emotions and personalities, from peace-loving to vengeful.

Hate to nitpick, but you pretty much just reiterated exactly what Bloodyredbaron said.

[Bloodyredbaron]

This site is always drilling the theory that "werewol ves are just people to" into our heads. Well, guess what guys? People can do terrible things, and by following the p a c k's line of reasoning, so can werewol ves.

Not all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic. The werewolf itself does not inspire murderous tendencies; rather it's the person inside that already wants to kill everybody. Yes, "werewolves are people too," which means they are subject to the entire range of human emotions and personalities, from peace-loving to vengeful.

You have completely and utterly ignored the point I was trying to make in favor of once again lecturing me about how werewolves can be nice and cuddly as well, which I am aware of, and have been aware long before I visited these forums.

To, once again, restate my point, Blackwolf's choice of words indicates that a werewolf could never ever commit genocide because they are part wolf. When there's no real why being a werewolf would prohibit you from becoming a maniac. I never, ever, in my entire history on this forums stated that all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic.

[Berserker]

I never, ever, in my entire history on this forums stated that all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic.

And if they were, I'd still be here talking about 'em.

[Bloodyredbaron]

This site is always drilling the theory that "werewol ves are just people to" into our heads. Well, guess what guys? People can do terrible things, and by following the p a c k's line of reasoning, so can werewol ves.

Not all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic. The werewolf itself does not inspire murderous tendencies; rather it's the person inside that already wants to kill everybody. Yes, "werewolves are people too," which means they are subject to the entire range of human emotions and personalities, from peace-loving to vengeful.

Hate to nitpick, but you pretty much just reiterated exactly what Bloodyredbaron said.

Thank you, Berserker.

And for the record, I'm not mad or snapping at anyone, I might be a little frustrated, but it's not like I'm loosing control of the situation.

[Terastas]

Going to go with Bloodyred on this one. The only thing that would keep a pack of werewolves from going bloody-murder on anyone would be lack of interest, not lack of capacity.

I say that because, while I certainly think werewolves would be capable of declaring a racial war against a lycanthropic variant like wererats, I don't really see the reason why. Going back on what I said about John Talbain, most people do tend to have that "A = good, B-Z = bad" mentality where werewolves are grouped together with vampires, zombies etc. and responded to equally. A pack of werewolves could commit genocide on any other one of these groups, but it should be in their best interest not to (is how it is in my writing; they resent the vampires and alternative werekin, but they share common interests, so they have a mutual respect for each other at the very least).

Emphasis on the word "should", of course. A pack wouldn't have any good reason to commit genocide, but it only has to be a good reason as far as they are concerned.

My point being that maybe the genocidal werewolves shouldn't be discussed any further. At least not in a thread entitled: "Lycanthropy treated in a positive light."

[Bloodyredbaron]

Going to go with Bloodyred on this one. The only thing that would keep a pack of werewolves from going bloody-murder on anyone would be lack of interest, not lack of capacity.

I say that because, while I certainly think werewolves would be capable of declaring a racial war against a lycanthropic variant like wererats, I don't really see the reason why. Going back on what I said about John Talbain, most people do tend to have that "A = good, B-Z = bad" mentality where werewolves are grouped together with vampires, zombies etc. and responded to equally. A pack of werewolves could commit genocide on any other one of these groups, but it should be in their best interest not to (is how it is in my writing; they resent the vampires and alternative werekin, but they share common interests, so they have a mutual respect for each other at the very least).

Emphasis on the word "should", of course. A pack wouldn't have any good reason to commit genocide, but it only has to be a good reason as far as they are concerned.

Bit of clarification, not all werewolves in the book are after wererats, and it's not just werewolves either, but the genocidal weres are careful enough and have enough contacts in the human world that they can do this in secret. And as long as there's no threat of exposure, non of the other weres care much about the wererats, or any of the other "lesser" shapeshifters that have been targeted.

[Gevaudan]

You have completely and utterly ignored the point I was trying to make in favor of once again lecturing me about how werewolves can be nice and cuddly as well, which I am aware of, and have been aware long before I visited these forums.

...I wasn't trying to say that werewolves were nice and cuddly. I was just pointing out something. However, I am sorry if my words seemed condescending, and I'm sorry if I was trying to tell you something that you already knew. I must have skipped over something that you said.

To, once again, restate my point, Blackwolf's choice of words indicates that a werewolf could never ever commit genocide because they are part wolf. When there's no real why being a werewolf would prohibit you from becoming a maniac. I never, ever, in my entire history on this forums stated that all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic.

Ah, I see now. From reading your post, I can see that you actually were trying to make that point. I was probably reacting to one part of your post without considering the context. I'll try not to be so arrogant from now on. Can we let bygones be bygones?

EDIT: Whoa. I just realized that I completely restated what you said (Berserker pointed that out). My mistake.

[Bloodyredbaron]

You have completely and utterly ignored the point I was trying to make in favor of once again lecturing me about how werewolves can be nice and cuddly as well, which I am aware of, and have been aware long before I visited these forums.

...I wasn't trying to say that werewolves were nice and cuddly. I was just pointing out something. However, I am sorry if my words seemed condescending, and I'm sorry if I was trying to tell you something that you already knew. I must have skipped over something that you said.

To, once again, restate my point, Blackwolf's choice of words indicates that a werewolf could never ever commit genocide because they are part wolf. When there's no real why being a werewolf would prohibit you from becoming a maniac. I never, ever, in my entire history on this forums stated that all werewolves are genocidal, blood-thirsty, and psychotic.

Ah, I see now. From reading your post, I can see that you actually were trying to make that point. I was probably reacting to one part of your post without considering the context. I'll try not to be so arrogant from now on. Can we let bygones be bygones?

EDIT: Whoa. I just realized that I completely restated what you said (Berserker pointed that out). My mistake.

It's alright, and I'm sorry if I came off a little...intense.

[RedEye]

Moderator's Warning

This is getting a very long way off thread. Let's get back.
The topic is "Lycanthropy treated in a positive light-not a curse"
Let's stay there, okay?

[IndianaJones]

Werewolves are so underrated, pretty unpopular in my town....so many people that are un-like minded.

I rarely see Lycanthropy shed in good light. Because of the so-called human society.

Humans make non-humans beings look bad or something that is half-human/half-non human look bad. I don't why I say this. Because it is True. Because they are not human to humans....

Now, I am rambling.