Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.

How strong, generally speaking, would you like the male and female werewolves to be?

able to lift and throw a human
28
28%
able to lift but NOT throw a car
52
53%
2 - Doesn’t really care either way
19
19%
 
Total votes: 99

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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Meeper »

lovec1990 wrote:ok we agree on overturning cars what about pushing them sideways?
Pushing cars sideways is either worse or easier depending on traction, on tarmac? I don't know. Drawing on personal experience again, I've actually tried pushing a car like this on three occasions, one was on tarmac, with the aid of my brother and a car jack, we barely moved it 2' in the space of an hour or so.

I have actually pushed a car with seized brakes (I was trying to unseize the brakes at the request of my brother), I moved it about 8-12 inches unaided in one big crushing shove with my legs, but I was not expecting that to happen, and in hindsight, it was because of a dirty dusty wooden floor, over a shallow inspection pit, and I was in a position to really leverage my legs into it without risking hurting myself, but then I had nothing else to push against, the edge of the pit wasn't where it needed to be for my to put my feet on something solid, so it's not like pushing a car around on a flat road basically. I've also pushed the back end of a car round 90 degrees unaided, which was on gravel, again acting as a lubricant of sorts, and I had some help bouncing it on the suspension springs. I can't imagine what a 350lbs chimp could do, but I'd imagine that would be more than possible even on tarmac, still not going to be a pushover though, if you pardon the pun :P.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

350lbs WW i tought they are hawier because denser bones and muschles
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

lovec1990 wrote:350lbs WW i tought they are hawier because denser bones and muschles
I would tend to agree, given that some bodybuilders (who do not have particularly dense muscle tissues, by the way) can tip the scales at 350 pounds at six feet tall. If you were to scale that up to seven feet tall (remembering that as length increases linearly, volume increases by the cube), and not factoring in things like increased muscle mass due to denser muscle tissue, and assuming that digitigrade ankles / feet would probably add another foot or so, then an eight foot werewolf would tip the scales at at least 555 pounds.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Meeper »

Heh, well I did put in 350+ pounds, as a minimum guestimate, all that said I've been pondering the numbers, we can speculate body weight per inch of height and all, but one thing I am certain of is real life power to weight ratio, as a weight trainer myself, I've a pretty good handle on that kind of thing, firstly we need to establish capabilities, I'm currently 6' tall, 260 pounds, decently built (not a top level athlete but you get the idea), back when I was trying to push cars around I was about 210-220 pounds, I'm not dramatically muscular for my weight, but I do have a heavy thick set frame, and I am the strongest person I know personally.

So, 6' and 260 pounds, I recently set up a 83lbs dumbbell to see how far I can push myself, and with a couple of month's training, I can just about bicep curl that dumbbell once, on a good day, with the wind behind me (75lbs is more comfortable for heavy arm training), that's me totally maxing out my arm for one repetition. Now take a chimp, they flit around in through tree branches using their arms the same way we humans walk and run around on our legs. Now replace my 83 pound dumbbell with a 83 pound chimp that can toss their own 83 pound body weight around for giggles, a 80 pound chimp can easily over power a averagely conditioned 260 pound human. I rest my case.

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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

i agree but there is thing about densety of bones and muschles you make WWs body 3 times denser and you have mean killing machine
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Meeper »

This is getting silly, did you even look at those links I posted? Chimps have muscle as dense as you'll see anywhere, muscle is muscle is muscle, it can only get so dense before you have to add more mass to get more strength in there, there's you can optimize in terms of leverage and such, but a muscle cell it a pretty fundamental unit and it takes up a fundamental volume of space, it's not like muscle cell density is infinitely scalable. As for bone, the same applies, healthy bone has mechanical properties comparable to granite, I repeat...G.R.A.N.I.T.E! you know, that rock hard stuff that needs a hammer, a chisel, and strong hands to sculpt.

How dense/strong do you want? It's not like a werewolf is going to swap out calcium for adamantium just to get stronger bones for our mythical car hurling fantasy werewolf :P .

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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

Meeper wrote:This is getting silly, did you even look at those links I posted? Chimps have muscle as dense as you'll see anywhere, muscle is muscle is muscle, it can only get so dense before you have to add more mass to get more strength in there, there's you can optimize in terms of leverage and such, but a muscle cell it a pretty fundamental unit and it takes up a fundamental volume of space, it's not like muscle cell density is infinitely scalable. As for bone, the same applies, healthy bone has mechanical properties comparable to granite, I repeat...G.R.A.N.I.T.E! you know, that rock hard stuff that needs a hammer, a chisel, and strong hands to sculpt.

How dense/strong do you want? It's not like a werewolf is going to swap out calcium for adamantium just to get stronger bones for our mythical car hurling fantasy werewolf :P .

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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

lovec1990 wrote:i agree but there is thing about densety of bones and muschles you make WWs body 3 times denser and you have mean killing machine
Actually, I think that was Meeper's point. Chimps have rather dense muscle mass. So let's say that our werewolf has a denser muscle mass than an equivalent human would (let's say conservatively 20%). That would leave our eight foot werewolf weighing in at 666 pounds -- and able to flip that six hundred-plus pounds around like an acrobat (as chimps can do). Now just for giggles, it has huge fangs and claws and can regenerate injuries, and can take that already impressive physical capability and push it even farther because it can naturally bypass "strength limiters" since its regenerative powers mean it's not going to injure itself by overexerting -- so it's like it's on PCP -- all the time.

That would be scary.

EDIT:
Huh. This is almost like chat.
:)
Last edited by Uniform Two Six on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform Two Six wrote:
lovec1990 wrote:i agree but there is thing about densety of bones and muschles you make WWs body 3 times denser and you have mean killing machine
Actually, I think that was Meeper's point. Chimps have rather dense muscle mass. So let's say that our werewolf has a denser muscle mass than an equivalent human would (let's say conservatively 20%). That would leave our eight foot werewolf weighing in at 666 pounds -- and able to flip that six hundred-plus pounds around like an acrobat (as chimps can do). Now just for giggles, it has huge fangs and claws and can regenerate injuries, and can take that already impressive physical capability and push it even farther because it can naturally bypass "strength limiters" since its regenerative powers mean it's not going to injure itself by overexerting -- so it's like it's on PCP.

That would be scary.

EDIT:
Huh. This is almost like chat.
:)
arent WWs soposed too be scary?
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Yes.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

long time since i posted here so i did my homework and come too this results:

werewolf is five times stronger than before being bitten, but 10 times stronger when he changes
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

How did you come to those results?
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

well werewolf have limiters that prevent us from harming ourself higher than before in human form, but they get a boost in strenght when they change and virus stranghtens their muscles
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

lovec1990 wrote: they get a boost in strenght when they change
Because the change increases their muscle size / mass, or for some other reason? Why the strength boost, I mean? Are you talking about some physiological justification, or is this more of a "lycanthropy is magic" thing? If it's the latter, then really you can put any number you want on it.

Specifically, when you say "doing your homework", what do you mean?
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform Two Six wrote:
lovec1990 wrote: they get a boost in strenght when they change
Because the change increases their muscle size / mass, or for some other reason? Why the strength boost, I mean? Are you talking about some physiological justification, or is this more of a "lycanthropy is magic" thing? If it's the latter, then really you can put any number you want on it.

Specifically, when you say "doing your homework", what do you mean?
doing my homework meaning: i do some research on topic

my thinking is that werewolf gains weight after being bitten so if you weighted 75kg before being bitten you will weight 100kg before your first shift so you will have mass for other form and muscle enhancments, but you will still look as 75kg person.So some of strenght increase is because of diffrence in weight other is better muscles and higger limiters, but when they change limiters go even higher and muscles arent so squezed together so they can operate with full strenght and virus itself strenghten muscles when its in active mode.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Still not grasping where you're getting the extra 25 kilograms from. What specifically are you basing that on? How exactly did you come to 25 kilograms? I get that you expect a werewolf to be heavier than a human, but why that specific number? And is this just because he's denser, or what?
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

I have a question:

how much stronger should werewolf be when he is transformed compared too when he is in human form?
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Well, I think it depends upon what kind of werewolf (as in what kind of werewolf story) you're going for.

An action, or action/horror story, werewolf should be ridiculously strong (able to tear apart a car with bare hands).

A straight-up horror story, way stronger than a human, but nothing too crazy (strength of a human on PCP).

For something a little less aggressive, particularly where the protagonist is himself the werewolf and the story revolves much more around dealing with social issues and complications of living with lycanthropy, marginally stronger than average or the same as (able to be a pro-athlete).

On the other hand, if what you're asking is 'what seems "reasonable"', that's going to vary greatly depending upon your individual point of view (since the werewolf is a "fantastic creature", the question itself is, in some ways irrational). My personal view is that if a werewolf were to exist, we're basically talking magic, in which case X-Men super-strength makes perfectly good sense. That said, some of the best stories out there weave in a little pseudo-science to make it all sound better -- more believable. I could go into my justifications, but I think we've actually covered some of this terrain already, so I'll just say that (excluding the issue of the existence of a werewolf, of course) it would seem reasonable that a werewolf would have roughly the same strength as a human with a similar muscle mass and density, if that human were under the influence of certain drugs like PCP (scary-strong, but not superman).
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Volkodlak »

Uniform i think you did not understand my question correctly im asking how severe sould be strenght increase when werewolf changes for example:

Human form strenght of 5 men, but changed strenght of 10 men or Human form strenght of 4 men, but changed strengt of 12 men.

im not looking for how strong but diffrence in strenght between human form and changed form.
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Re: Strength of a werewolf, for both sexes

Post by Kveldulf »

I'd definitely go with lifting a car, because to me being a werewolf is closely associated with the whole "berserk" phenomenon (though not identical to it, a similar mechanism is in play). Maybe not throwing it unless one were a major powerlifter to begin with, although some of the little itty-bitty plastic shelled cars I've seen recently might not even take werewolf strength to chuck about. But definitely well into the level of the rarely-tapped human capacity - or at least losing the muscle inhibitors that keep humans, under normal circumstances, from exerting enough raw force to do serious structural damage to themselves with their own muscles (happily not an issue for werewolves...either we have much more durable tendons, ligaments, and bones, or we heal any such damage as fast as we do it, take your pick).

Never been a great fan of the whole "Change adds body mass" concept. At 145 lbs or so, I'm not a particularly large human - but that makes *quite* a large wolf (actually a good size even for a prehistoric dire wolf, let alone a wolf more resembling our current gray wolf cousins). Not nearly as impressive in bipedal form, I'll admit, but there you are - one always looks larger with a good coat of fur regardless, anyway, especially if one is annoyed and bristling up.

And mass is going to be a real issue regardless of strength, either in human form or if the Change doesn't add a lot of body mass. To lift a car that weighs a lot more than you do, you need to be able to brace yourself pretty well, at the least. Or, take a hypothetical situation in which a slight werewolf in human or bipedal form, say 100 lbs, wants to knock a 350-lb human behemoth out of the way for whatever reason. The werewolf may be able to lift more or beat the human at arm-wrestling...but if she just charges him with an untrained shoulder block and doesn't drop under his centre of gravity, she will bounce off him like a rubber ball (it will hurt him too, and might cave in a few of his ribs or something from the force of her impact, but she's not going to move him far unless she got an awfully good run-up with seriously enhanced lycanthropic speed. Because, physics). Great technique if she's the werewolf Jackie Chan and is actually using him as a wall to flip off; not so useful if she just wants to get him out of the way of something.
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