Any anti-werewolf KKK-type organizations?

[Dreamer]

Okay, we've talked about individual werewolf hunters, but what about an organization of these hunters, an anti-werewolf KKK if you will. Do you think the idea could work?

I'm planning on using it in my story. In my concept they were originally formed by the Catholic Church in the Mideval era, used to form a sort of group to stir up fear of the nomadic tribes of lycanthropes as a means to gain converts and to cement their power over the people. They almost wiped out the werewolves, whom decided to integrate themselves into human society (While still maintining contact amongst their kind) as a measure to keep their race from dying out. During the Reformation, The Catholic Church disassociated themselves with them as a measure to rebutt the Protestants whom were against that for being a blatant means to keep the people in fear and in league with the Church. But the group survived due to its head members being entrenched in high positions in society. That tradition of inflential heads of the organization continues to this day, with the leadership consisting of corporate executives, important heirs, and other such scarily important people. It has lasted so long that their hatred has become dogma for its members, as they never really understood back in the Middle ages that the Church was just using them, and they have always thought their goals a mission from god. There are some who defect though. IT will also be revealed in other stories based around different characters that they also hunt other supernatural-based humans such as vampires, psychics (Whom's abilities are actually science based, but the organization doesn't care), and anyone who uses magic.

How would you carry out this concept? And is my idea for it any good?

[Vagrant]

They might need an Illuninatus level of entrenchment within society though to keep themselves covered up, otherwise a group of Human investigators could likely go undercover and expose them, and there have been some successes with these kinds of activities in the past.

If they made one poorly-considered kill, they'd probably have a murder investigation on their hands. And if any Werewolves happen to be involved somehow with that investigation, on an official level, then they could subtly drive the investigation towards routing out the people responsible.

A lot of good Werewolf stories involve the most successful packs also having people in influential positions, too, after all.

I actually think this kind of scenario was played out fairly well with the Gargoyles cartoon, they managed to befriend someone in law enforcement and that worked to their favour quite often. Admittedly, Xanatos wasn't really evil, he was just a rather egotistical opportunist who weaved these Machiavellian schemes for his own entertainment.

However, with a society that's trying to kill off Werewolves, they'd likely need to do all in their power to get as many plants in law enforcement as possible, to bring them (to a degree, unwittingly) over to their side.

So yes, I think a story involving an organisation like that could work quite well, and it'd be interesting to see exactly how, or if, the Werewolves in question manage to topple them.

[Terastas]

I haven't given any specific name to such an organization, but I have at least implied that one such group exists. I figure that there would have been such a group funded by the Catholic Church which was prevalent up until the reformation and its inevitable disbandment by a more image-conscious pope. While the group's history can never be confirmed, its history is still written out in various conspiracy theories, fringe historical accounts and fictional depictions, and as such has inspired several copycat groups.

Much like the KKK; the original organization has long-since disbanded, but countless CCKs (CopyCat Klans) are strewn about the country.

I've only written about one self-proclaimed crusader thus far. He was basically just an independent kook with no affiliation to any anti-werewolf association, but he did network with plenty of like-minded individuals, some of which may or may not have been members of such an association. I haven't written too much about werewolf hunters yet, but I figure some of them will have noticed the crusader's name in the obituaries and presumed a local werewolf pack was his undoing.

[Berserker]

There are two anti-werewolf groups in my story.

One is the Agency, a shadowy government splinter group. They would be similar to the B.P.R.D. (Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense) from the Hellboy universe, but instead of openly accepting friendly monsters and creatures, they have an extremely militant anthrocentric ideology: any "threat" to humanity needs to be dealt with swiftly. Their original goal of terminating the werewolf in my story was hampered when he went public with his abilities. Their ultimate goal of preventing the "apocalypse" failed, but their scattered members still retain the Agency's original focus.

The other is a group very similar to the KKK. In this post-apocalyptic setting, civilization is overturned, and werebeasts and humans are thrown together. Many of the wayward rural people in my setting band together into settlements. The largest of these colonies is run by a group of hunters who believe it's their God-given right to reclaim not only their land, but America itself, from the mindless, filthy savages out there (namely, the werewolves, etc.) They know full well that the sentient werebeasts aren't dangerous, but they intentionally spread religion- and prejudice-fueled misinformation in order to gain support. They can be especially ruthless, fond of turning were-animal heads into trophies, and conducting public lynchings of werewolf fraternizers.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I would carry it out like a yuppie constantly beating a poor giant mutt with a jewel-laced 2x4.

... Okay, that's the lazy version.

As of now, mine's pretty much splintered across every known group in the human world, and the beginnings of the many many dark ages for zoans vary from country to country. But the reason for the humans' animosity and apathy for them comes from a handful of factors.

For instance, they initially respected the zoans for minding their own businesses at a time when the zoans were commonplace in the world, but eventually the humans became frustrated from the ignorance, and coupled with their own human jealousy of feeling inferior to their outlandish relatives, they chucked a huge hissy fit and dissociated themselves from the zoans, threatening to torment the s*** out of them in whatever way possible should they not make themselves scarce, and singing the most pro-human anthems their bards can squeeze out of their spoony buttocks. As a result, trade relations were severely diluted, save for some countries who don't give 2 flying twats about who sells them their own hides, and the zoans took it as a huge shock, feeling like they were stabbed in the balls for no sensical reason whatsoever. So for the next hundreds of years, zoans in countries most affected by this predicament made a frantic effort to re-establish basic relations, while trying to put up with closeted fundamentalists in denial subconsciously following their forefathers and make the life of the average Joe Wolf a living hell on a stick.

And those much better off are trying to figure out which third life they're going to live by the time they reach 150.

Yeah, sorry for being ambivalent there.

[Leonca~]

I’ve got something like this in my version, but I haven’t developed it in much detail yet. They aren’t really werewolf hunters, but rather an independent group funded by the government (USA) to secretly research werewolves and figure out how to use their abilities to the government’s advantage (imagine taking your best trained spies and whatnot and giving them werewolf abilities. And if you don’t do it some other country’s government might be doing it with their local shapeshifters, so you better be doing it to be ahead of the game). They leave the hunting of dangerous werewolves who are actively killing people to the dominant werewolf pack of the country, who they have formed a sort of treaty with to prevent generalized warfare between humans and werewolves from breaking out. The pack agrees to look away when the agency conducts it’s experiments, and the agency agrees to leave werewolves affiliated with the pack alone. It is a very shaky treaty though, which could disintegrate into something much more dangerous for all of the werewolves at any moment.

[Bloodyredbaron]

I tend to shy away from "GRRRR, KILL THE FURRY ABOMINATION!" Knights Templar groups in my stories, for no reason that I tend to have Knights Templar or Free Mason like organizations as either neutral or relatively benevolent, though in one of my stories there is a large “Hunter” type group, government funded, who aren’t outright genocidal when it comes to supernaturals, although most agents do look down on “sub-humans” and one is an outright bigot, and not just against werewolves either.

[vrikasatma]

I like the idea. Here's how I'd handle it.

There'd have been an organization as you proposed, an adjunct of the Roman Catholic Church as you proposed. I'd have them dissolve after some time, perhaps a hey-day of 600 some-odd years, after which they lapse into obscurity.

But of course, humans don't really change, so the urge to frown upon, deny, ravage and murder Scapegoat [XYZ] is still very much with us. All the KKK are are schoolyard bullies given bottled courage, the seventh-floor syndrome (anonymity, via their cloaks and hoods), and firearms. Calling the "weird kid" fat and gay (fallaciously or not), tripping him as he passes by, shooting his family as they run out of their arson-attacked house and shipping him and everyone like him off to concentration camps are all different points on the same yardstick. That yardstick's name is "Bigotry."

I'd say the original hunters' organization has passed by the wayside, and another, more edgy, vicious and contemptible has gained ascendancy in the modern era.

The Old Guard gave way because 1) Back then, they had a legitimate complaint against ravaging werecreatures (because of that old "power in numbers/bottled courage" thing), and a vested interest in holding them at bay; and 2) Back in the "good old days" honour and courage were fair trade and a little more common than they are today. The Old Guard — let's call them "Vetus Tutela" (from the Latin) — did what they were made to do, they succeeded, and said "Our work here is done."

As for the modern-day organization...there is no honour, there is no sense of fair play, there is a vested interest but not as much (more humans now than there were back in the 1200's = watered-down threat), therefore there are no real rules of engagement. Anything goes, whatever works, no holds barred. With less emphasis on "enlightened self-interest," there's more hate, more poison, and it's closer to the schoolyard brawl than the jousting tournament.

The New School hunters are populated by Neocons, extreme religious fundamentalists (Protestants and Muslims, but the Catholics have probably learnt their lesson by now and are taking the teachings of Christ to heart better), eco-anarchists who want to take out a big predator that pisses on trees and eats meat and shouldn't exist in nature, and of course your standard-issue gormless inbred punks whose daddies beat 'em, and are looking for someone to share the love with. Which would probably include the "usual" garden-variety Klansmen.

What would be an excellent "strange bedfellows" irony scenario...is if the Vetus Tutela sides with the weres; not because they had a change of heart, so much as an opposition to the New School hunters and their methodology.

[Terastas]

The New School hunters are populated by Neocons, extreme religious fundamentalists (Protestants and Muslims, but the Catholics have probably learnt their lesson by now and are taking the teachings of Christ to heart better), eco-anarchists who want to take out a big predator that pisses on trees and eats meat and shouldn't exist in nature, and of course your standard-issue gormless inbred punks whose daddies beat 'em, and are looking for someone to share the love with. Which would probably include the "usual" garden-variety Klansmen.

Going to have to disagree with you about the Catholic part, but only with the specification that there are many sub-sects of Catholicism/Christianity, some of which are very militant and intolerant. The Catholic Church (in caps), the Pope and the organized front and such, they are probably beyond monster hunting, and if the Vetus Tutela still exists, it probably exists only to conceal the records of their past as hunters. The banner of Catholicism, however, is still very much abused to this day.

Also don't think there'd be many eco-anarchists. Just the opposite: I think they would be in another group: The people that want lycanthropy so they can use it to their own ends. Eco-anarchists I figure would want lycanthropy so they can be "defenders of the Earth" and slaughter the suburbanites willy-nilly.

But yeah, other than that, you pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. The leader of the only group of crusaders I've written about singularly was just a self-proclaimed preacher, and most of his followers he'd recruited when they were fresh out of prison or rehab. They worked on the banner of religion, but none of them were deeply religious. There were a couple of them (including my current slated protagonist) that felt like they were indebted to him and had nowhere else to go, but the rest of them were just as sick in the head as the preacher.

What would be an excellent "strange bedfellows" irony scenario...is if the Vetus Tutela sides with the weres; not because they had a change of heart, so much as an opposition to the New School hunters and their methodology.

Makes sense, especially assuming the Vetus Tutela only exists to deny its own existence, because essentially that would mean they and the werewolves both want the same thing: undisturbed anonymity.

The only X-factor would be the group I mentioned above that was left out: the lycanthropy abusers. They'd make it harder for the werewolves to make their claim, but since the anonymous werewolves and aggressive werewolves will presumably be locked in conflict as well, the Vetus Tutela and other not-so-fanatical groups should eventually figure out that there are two sides to the conflict. That would help distinguish the misguided from the bloodthirsty among the hunters, after which the two passive sides would ideally ally while the two aggressors continue to fight each other.

It's sort of what I had planned for the protagonist I mentioned earlier. I've got vampires thrown into the mix in my case too so I can't go into great detail just yet (as the plot line got more and more complex, it sort of morphed from a movie script into a TV pilot, so I'm trying to not go the way of Heroes and throw everything out there all at once and expect everyone to follow), but the basic outline right now is that the protagonist suffices to illustrate how big the anti-monster problem is and the werewolves, vampires and reformed crusaders start networking with each other.

[Aki]

I don't write, but my favorite anti-werewolf (technically, anti-any-supernatural) organization is the "Ashwood Abbey" from White Wolf's nWod.

They're not fanatics.

They're not soldiers.

They're not hunting because some monster killed someone they hold dear.

They don't hunt to protect humanity.

No, they do it for fun. Turns out the Most Dangerous Game isn't man - it's the man-wolf, and the other things that go bump in the night. Abbey members are mere humans, unehanced in any way. They use their cunning to brind down their prey and well, have fun. Because that's what they're in it for - fun. Sometimes really depraved fun that involves dragging the supernatural critter back to the Abbey for all sorts of nasty business.

The Abbey may not be a bunch of fanatics or well-equiped government black-ops, but they're scary all the same because they're undoubtedly all at least a little sociopathic. A number may be full blown psychotic. There's no reasoning with them - unless your deal is more fun.

The idea of a bunch of hunters in it for the fun of facing down the biggest baddest monsters they can is an intriguing one, I think. Very fun and allows for quite a lot of diversity.

[Vagrant]

I tend to have Knights Templar or Free Mason like organizations as either neutral or relatively benevolent,

It hadn't really occurred to me but this really is the road least travelled, isn't it? Most societies seem to be portrayed darkly, with evil or at least self-obsessed intent.

I actually remember recently encountering The Order of the Burning Rose in the Witcher (PC RPG), and I was surprised that at first they seemed to be stand-up blokes and this was a pleasing development, but it wasn't long before they developed racist, genocidal tendencies that slotted them firmly back into the existing stereotypes.

The sad part is, I can't really think of a good example of a small organisation that does have any beneficial goals, I can think of a number of them that use such goals to shroud their true intent, but none which actually take doing the right thing (not doing "good", per se, but being ethical in choosing to help ease the suffering of people, rather than cause it) simply because it's the right thing to do.

It strikes me then that I'd actually be interested in a Werewolf story where there were groups (possibly Government or not) which were trying to help and protect Werewolves and other supernatural entities, those that had an idea about a better future where the fantastic elements of the World wouldn't have to hide. Perhaps their eventual goal would even be the reintroduction of these glorious, hidden creatures to society.

Now that ... that would be a story I'd want to read, too. About an agency whose job it was to protect rather than kill or imprison, so that the most fantastic elements of the World wouldn't have to go it alone.

I'm not quite sure if that's quite the thing that your groups do, Baron, but I really do congratulate you for taking the road least travelled, and inspiring me there.

[Bloodyredbaron]

I’m always up for turning genera stereotypes on their head.

[RedEye]

In the Wulfen universe, there are several Anti-Werewolf groups. Some of them are backed by consortia of Genetic Research organizations. There are so many profitable parts of the Werewolf DNA structure available for sale, once the "Wolf" is filtered out.
There are the "Religious" groups, who see Werewolves as either Devils or Profound Embarassments to their "Divine Official Line". Then, since Werewolves are Canine; most Moslems want nothing to do with them (other than as bodyguards for heads of state). In Islam, dogs are "unclean" animals.
As a rule, all "Ultra" political groups dislike Were's profoundly for the crime of non-adherence to the "Cause".
There is a sort of "Octopus" group who wants control of the U.S., made up of both liberal and conservative organizations; who want the Wulfen back in hiding, so they don't upset the net of controls over the Government already in place. The aim of this organization is to effectively "gut" the Constitution, while leaving it apparently in place. They want control of the U.S. economy; for their own reasons (in that it controls most other economies, one way or another).
There is a group called "Humanity United" who just wants the Were's legends again: Dead Legends.
Then, there are the old "Neo- (and not to so Neo-) Nazi groups, as well as the real KKK.
All of these people make up maybe 5% of the U.S. population.
Some of them are fantasy creations, some aren't...

[Terastas]

It hadn't really occurred to me but this really is the road least travelled, isn't it? Most societies seem to be portrayed darkly, with evil or at least self-obsessed intent.

It's because it's tough to justify why one group would dedicate itself entirely to the destruction of another group without the other group in question being inherently evil. Since I think the consensus is that werewolves are not inherently evil, the best a werewolf hunter could be justified as is severely misguided.

Usually in my writing, the people who dedicate themselves to the preservation of werewolves are the familiars the werewolves count among their packmates, but it's not that far fetched that there could be a Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense which would protect any werewolves that would allow them to. Their motivation would be for the same reason the Men In Black fight and protect aliens; because just the very confirmation of their existence would open the proverbial floodgates of paranoia.

After all, most people think of werewolves as just one of a set of Hollywood monsters, both in classic and modern terms. If just one of them is proven to exist, why not all the others too?

[Dreamer]

I tend to have Knights Templar or Free Mason like organizations as either neutral or relatively benevolent,

It hadn't really occurred to me but this really is the road least travelled, isn't it? Most societies seem to be portrayed darkly, with evil or at least self-obsessed intent.

I actually remember recently encountering The Order of the Burning Rose in the Witcher (PC RPG), and I was surprised that at first they seemed to be stand-up blokes and this was a pleasing development, but it wasn't long before they developed racist, genocidal tendencies that slotted them firmly back into the existing stereotypes.

The sad part is, I can't really think of a good example of a small organisation that does have any beneficial goals, I can think of a number of them that use such goals to shroud their true intent, but none which actually take doing the right thing (not doing "good", per se, but being ethical in choosing to help ease the suffering of people, rather than cause it) simply because it's the right thing to do.

It strikes me then that I'd actually be interested in a Werewolf story where there were groups (possibly Government or not) which were trying to help and protect Werewolves and other supernatural entities, those that had an idea about a better future where the fantastic elements of the World wouldn't have to hide. Perhaps their eventual goal would even be the reintroduction of these glorious, hidden creatures to society.

Now that ... that would be a story I'd want to read, too. About an agency whose job it was to protect rather than kill or imprison, so that the most fantastic elements of the World wouldn't have to go it alone.

I'm not quite sure if that's quite the thing that your groups do, Baron, but I really do congratulate you for taking the road least travelled, and inspiring me there.

Actually, I had an idea of a group like that for my universe, descended from the first hero of whom's life the Cambellian archetypes all stem from and whom all heroes since (Some of which whom have been part of that same organization) have tried to emulate. It's role is sort of like a worldwide BRPD, serving as a bridge between humanity and all things mystical. They do things such as meet to negotiate with mystical beings such as gods (Both the original mythological ones and their descendants); angels and the Fae, work with the vampire Covens and Werewolf packs to help with protecting the vulnerable ones(from the KKK type organization I mentioned); helping settle disputes as mediaries; and keeping rogue packs or covens from harming humans, helping keep humanity safe from malevolent monsters (Most beings that are called monsters are more like animals with magical powers, and just like animals they can become dangerous under certain conditions) and demons (Whom actually aren't all evil, it's a matter of personal choice, but there is some bigotry within the organization against even the ones that aren't evil), and other things like that.

They actually do have some vampires and/or damphirs, werecreatures and even a few tanuki; bakeneko and kitsune due to interbreeding and infection. One of the main characters in my cocnept for this series, an apprentice to a member of said organization (whom is another main character), is a female werecat.

Just wanted to let ya know.

[Terastas]

-and demons (Whom actually aren't all evil, it's a matter of personal choice, but there is some bigotry within the organization against even the ones that aren't evil), and other things like that.

On an unrelated note, I have a story draft (which I probably won't be using for years since it's such a boatload to take in) where devils were appointed as overseers of Hell, not cast down into Hell, effectively making them the strongest and most reliable of allies to any would-be crusader.
Great minds think alike, eh?

[Dreamer]

Well, technically, my demons are a little different from yours. The basic definition of demon in my universe is "Any beign that is the full-blooded descendant of the angels that fell from heaven". But the whole "allegiance to Satan" thing is more of a political choice. So you have demons that defect from their evil roots and those who want to bring hell to Earth.

But still, a great idea Terastas. It actually seems more based on Satan's actual depiction in the Bible than most other depictions of demons in fiction.

[Terastas]

Actually, if you go into the details, it is a case by case scenario too. One of the rules devils have to abide by is that they may in no way shape or form encourage anyone to venerate themselves or any other devil. The loophole is that they may accept worship from anyone that venerates them without their influence, but a lot of them interpret it that they must discourage worship, which a lot of them in turn interpret that they are obligated to lead to ruin anyone that worships them. They're not inherently evil; some of them just interpret it that way.

So if you attempt to contact a devil, none of them will kill you "just because," but they may consider it their moral obligation to be the object of your demise.

[Vagrant]

This talk of demons reminds me of the Sandman's Universe. Lucifer in that one was a personable chap, and eventually he even got tired and wanted to live a normal life. Hell got put up for auction at that point, and it was eventually a group of actual angels who won the bet to oversee and own the place. He probably allowed them to win knowing they'd come to the same conclusions about a great many things that he did. But I digress.

Oh and one thing I wanted to toss in here was about any given organisations that might protect Werewolves. It needn't have to be a Government department doing the deed, even though it could. But there are other options I could see, as well...

- There are honourable companies out there, a coalition between them might negotiate a business deal with sects of weres in order to achieve something mutually beneficial. Whether that thing is blood samples, cultural knowledge, or simply "sharing resources" (so the Werewolves get bodyguards, and the corporation would have access to lycanthropes amidst their secret police). Businesses are usually fairly unethical, and often the bigger one is, the more unethical they are. But some of them can be honourable in their practices, and this kind of deal might not be entirely unimaginable.

- There might be a couple of rich eccentrics with power and status in society who could form a protectorate for mystical creatures, they could even house and train their own secret Order. One dedicated to the belief that the greatest monster is often man, and that there should be someone at least that looks out for the creatures man would collectively prey on, if they were given the chance. They'd likely be trained more in the area of special ops, using the influence of the rich to achieve whatever other ends they required. (This is a bit of a spin on what Baron said, which I found quite inspiring and I'm thinking about quite a bit, now.)

- This is similar to what others have talked about, with most protection coming from inside of Werewolf families, and what I covered with basically hijacking Human society. For their own protection, a number of mystical forces (including weres) could band together to create their own secret society. They'd try to secure powerful jobs in bureaucracy, journalism, and law enforcement, to help control public knowledge. If they were to get bold, they might even try to put in place their own leader of a country, and that'd be a fun story to write, eh? But this would probably require more than just were-creatures to exist in that Universe, and they'd need to be willing to co-operate.

- As an off-shot of the above examples, there might even be a league of secret human/mythical co-operation, with the eventual result of engineering human understanding. Perhaps using products, advertising, common media, and so on to slowly convince people to be more open-minded and accepting of such paranormal elements. After all, such methods are used to tap-dance on the edge of a consumer's will with what they want to buy already, so these methods could probably be put to a more noble use.

There could also be room for Gov't bureaucracies, but they don't have to be the only system of protection. I'm glad that this is something that's been considered for some stories though, and I would like to read the stories of both Dreamer and Terastas at some point to see how they've put in place these systems of protection.

Of course, having any of these things that we've talked about would result in a brighter, more optimistic World than we're used to putting Werewolves into, but that wouldn't be so bad. It would be interesting to see Werewolves and other mythical creatures secretly helping our World to progress.

I admit though, my love of superhero stories and the more open-minded public in those Worlds is at the forefront of my mind, so that might explain why I'd like to see a brighter World for weres to live in. Just thought I'd share that brain-dump, anyway!

[Terastas]

- There are honourable companies out there, a coalition between them might negotiate a business deal with sects of weres in order to achieve something mutually beneficial. Whether that thing is blood samples, cultural knowledge, or simply "sharing resources" (so the Werewolves get bodyguards, and the corporation would have access to lycanthropes amidst their secret police). Businesses are usually fairly unethical, and often the bigger one is, the more unethical they are. But some of them can be honourable in their practices, and this kind of deal might not be entirely unimaginable.

Hate to sound like a windbag and keep saying "in my writing," but. . . That more or less sums up how the vampires are typically organized in my writing. There's two contributing factors: first, vampires need blood to survive, and since vampire and werewolf alike will brutally murder anyone that tries to get their blood "the old fashioned way," all vampires are essentially indebted to the covens that fund the blood banks. And second, the coven naturally expects all vampires to pull their weight, but since they can't last for very long in sunlight, there's a pretty severe limitation on what lines of work a vampire can safely pursue.

So what the covens eventually did was invest in and purchase businesses at which they could employ their hordes of underlings, at which said underlings work for cheap. So there are actually a lot of people that know about the existence of vampires, but it's rare that they ever have to threaten anyone into silence because they:
A) Have a no-kill, non-infecting method of sustaining their underlings.
B) Are major stockholders / financial contributors to their investments.
C) Can provide a workforce that will work at a discount, if for anything at all.
D) Make enough money from their investments to pay off anyone else in the know.

Theoretically they could "sell immortality" to wealthy businessmen and the like as well, so even if vampires were not rich to begin with, they easily could be. In my own writing, however, they don't (anymore) for the same reason werewolves won't allow werewolf enthusiasts to be infected: because people that want lycanthropy and/or vamprism usually intend to use it, more often than not for something the packs and/or covens would not approve of.

[Vagrant]

Hate to sound like a windbag and keep saying "in my writing," but. . .

I just had to reply here, because I really have to say ... not at all, really. There are quite a few writers around here whom I enjoy reading the thoughts of, and if anything I'm guilty too because I know full well that what you did was the expected result, that those basic points I made would get fleshed out by comparison to the penned work of such people. Yourself included.

So I don't find you to be a windbag (no one with anything interesting to say ever is, succinctness isn't a necessity), nor do I mind the "in my writing" take. In fact, it's that kind of thing I was hoping to hear, and I do thank you for sharing.

[Vuldari]

What's kind of funny is that, though I'm casually working on an epic scaled story on the side that involves both secret organizations and werewolves ... none of those organizations are centered around them, either for or against.

In fact ... the biggest, baddest Werewolf in the story is actually a founding member of an Illuminati-like world group (which was originally created as a splinter of the FreeMasons ... basically, the members who WANTED it to be the world controlling group it was rumored to be but wasn't, so they made their own). However, he does not want anyone else in his group to be werewolves too, because they are all basically rival secret superpowers who get together and make deals as an alternative to blowing each other off the face of the earth (though they would all love to stab each other in the back, given the chance) and he doesn't want to make them any more powerful, or difficult to kill than they already are.

No ... all of the Werewolves in my pending story are so determined to keep themselves a secret that they dare not form any clear organizations. They are so secretive, they don't even know about each other, and they prefer it that way. They do not "Initiate" new members or try to expand the sizes of their packs, because the more of themselves there are, the more likely it becomes that they will bring disaster upon all of them. They are just trying to get by and survive. Basically, the only time a PACK comes to exist is if someone gets a little out of control and bites a few people by mistake, they randomly find each other somehow and band together for protection and support or if two people (at least one of which is a werewolf) love each other so much, and have such a strong will to start a family that they are willing to risk having lycanthropic children.

There are no significant Werewolf HUNTING organizations either, as any that even begin to become organized are quickly wiped out by the Big Bad Werewolf in the secret world group (A guy so secretive, not even the other members know what his real name is, and just call him "The General" or "The Spaniard", though at one time he went by the name "Oscar"), who just uses his massive political influence to get rid of them long before they become big enough to give him a headache. He neither covets nor despises his lycanthropy, and does not theme his goals or self image around it. It's just part of how he came to be who he is today ... very, VERY Dangerous.

So long as he is around, no Anti-Werewolf groups could ever stand a chance of forming. As soon as he found out about them (and he'll find out ... he has eyes and ears EVERYWHERE), some or all of the lead members would suddenly find themselves targeted by seemingly unrelated lawsuits, or framed/set-up/ratted-out for serious crimes, or just plain mysteriously murdered by trained hit-men who leave no evidence, or frame someone else for the crime ... with no way to know who was really behind it, and no way anyone would ever see it coming. The LAST thing that guy needs is any group devising effective ways to kill a Werewolf.

[Terastas]

Sort of like the Captain in Hellsing if you will; one werewolf among a bunch of other assorted freaks with no motivations beyond himself.

It makes sense, however, that any anti-werewolf organizations would also be anti-vampire, as well as anti-anything else of seemingly supernatural origin. The kook I alluded to earlier actually wasn't even hunting werewolves; he was hunting vampires. It's what causes his demise actually: he tries to ambush and kill a meeting of vampires with UV lamps and finds out the hard way there was only one actual vampire at the meeting; the others were all either vampire familiars or representative werewolves.

Most people equate werewolves in with other (presumably) fictional monsters. Both the classic and modern-day Horror sets include vampires and werewolves, and in both examples, vampires are the primary monster. What that means is that, by insisting that werewolves exist, you are at least subconsciously giving a nod of confirmation to the existence of vampires as well (sort of like how implementing an alternative werekin would be giving the nod to the default lycanthrope).

I'd originally had it written that when a character asks if vampires are real too, one of the werewolves responds: "If they are, they're doing a better job hiding it than we are." I always loved that line, but as the story later developed with vampires and werewolves had already discovered each other, I had to drop it.

If there was a group devoted specifically to werewolves, it would probably be under the (fatal) assumption that werewolves would be easier prey. There weren't that many movies, after all, that depict werewolves working as a family (only one I can recall off the top of my head was Dog Soldiers, so the assumption might be that they'll warm up by hunting the lone werewolves before tackling an entire coven.

[vrikasatma]

The way I have it written in my Pashunara universe, is that the Vrika (the Wolf-People) help protect the temples and sacred ground, like the rest of the Beast Folk. They're kind of forced into it because when the Moon God cursed the whole Pashunara race, Shiva bargained Him down to setting a "sunset" (Moonset?) clause and giving them an exception, where they cannot be harmed by silver while doing Shiva's bidding. Vishnu threw His lot in and backed Him up, saying "They can't be hurt in My temples, either."

Shiva, for His part, usually gives them the order to protect worshipers and pilgrims. So in this world, if you see a scary-looking statue or gargoyle in a Shiva or Vishnu temple, cremation ghat, cemetary or pilgrimage route, it ain't a statue. It's a real, hot-blooded, honest-to-goodness shapeshifter pulling guard duty. Yep, even if it's something like a jaguar- or coyote-shifter, which don't occur in India/Nepal/Pakistan/Bali/Cambodia.

In this universe, the antagonism doesn't come from the Church. It comes from the forces of rationalism, anti-theism, rejection of "superstition." Kind of like the Cultural Revolution in China, where they sacked places of worship and slaughtered the priesthood. Naturally, a werewolf would have a lot more defensive resources to call on than a human monk, Kung Fu aside, but even a pack of werewolves is pretty much hanging meat when you're talking about 100,000 soldiers armed with silver bullets and bayonets, and backed by an official line that flouts the existence of God.

On the other side, though...they're supposed to protect the worshipers and pilgrims, but the worshipers and pilgrims aren't exactly grateful. They're just as unnerved about the arrangement as anyone would be if a wolf-man or monkey-woman sat down next to them in church, or a tiger-boy hopped up on a crypt next to where Grampa's being buried, and sharpened his claws. The more experienced priests and worshipers are quick to say, "It's okay, he's on our side, just go back to praying to [XYZ]" but it takes some time for neophytes to get used to the idea.

As for pilgrims...it's seesaw, depending on how fanatical or dedicated they are. If they're fixated on the pilgrimage and where they're going, then a panther-man walking alongside the road keeping pace with you, or wolf-women ranging through the trees off-road, and not saying a lot is a welcome companion, particularly if your spirit-guide corresponds. They'd see it as a good omen, "God sent His messenger to watch over me." If it's a fanatical pilgrim who's bent on their destination, come hell or high water, there might be a few tense moments at first until the pilgrim figures out the Pashunara is there to protect them, then it could back off to a guarded relationship.

But for the greater majority, the relationship is no more cordial than, "Yes, thank you for protecting our temple, just please stay away and don't look at my daughter like that!"

[Leonca~]

I like the idea of using Hindu mythology in a story. You don’t see people doing that very often. Makes me wish I had some more books on global mythology, I don’t think any of my currant ones focus on India.