Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Dreamer »

Well, as i was finally getting off my lazy a** to work on my story, I noticed that there was a little roadblock in the way of writing it, and I wanted to ask a question to see what you think about it, allong with a second one that I've just been wondering about.

First off, if a pack takes a new werewolf in, specifically one whom had no idea what he was until before the transformation so he had no time to prepare for the change, what exactly would they need to teach the new were to function normally as a werewolf? Things like how to change back and forth in between were and human form, how to walk (if in gestalt form with digitigrade paws), how to control one's instincts, how to keep one's new senses from overwhelming them, maybe a little of the REAL history of werewolves, other things like that. And in what order would one teach those things?

Also, another question, it's about the nature of a Pack's safehouse. I was wondering, what would it be like? In terms of furnishings, in terms of location, in terms of functions and other things like that. And what would you do with it if a Hunter finds out about it, specifically the manner of destroying it and relocating to a new one?
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Wingman »

Well, all the things would depend on the environment they are in, and not only limited to Urban, Rural, and similar. As such, there's no real definitive answer someone could possibly give, since the questions themselves are so vague.
If you want quality answers, be sure the question is of quality. Expand upon the information given, outline the parameters of the question. As is, anyone trying to answer is doing guesswork and assumptions, which rarely provides valuable information.

I'm sure there are packs that have powerpoint presentations and little FAQ books to hand out to new members, and obstacle courses to improve dexterity and motor skills, but for every one of them there's going to be a pack that deliberately keeps newcomers ignorant so they don't pose a threat to the current pack structure.

Personally, I'd say that as for the order of what is taught, survival-based topics would take precedence. By that I mean survival in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word, with self control taking priority over things such as Werewolf History and Religion. Well, unless they want berserkers, or new wolves who are trapped in their transformed state and thus completely reliant on the pack for their survival.

Walking a pretty basic skill, which most people should pick up rather quickly. The leg structure is rather similar, the primary difference would posture, and walking habits. Ergo, quadrupedal would be easier, as most humans get the hang of crawling before they get the hang of bowel control.

As for behavioral concerns, that's an entire ballpark of its own, and sooner or later you're going to have to decide whether they are Intelligent or Instinctual. Are they going to be urinating on their houses and chasing traffic? Barking at lightbulbs? Sabre-rattling every time they spot a dog? Eating chocolate even though they know it's going to make them sick?

It all depends on the people involved, it makes sense that for every addict there's a werewolf with minimal control over his instincts.

Safehouses would be subject to the available resources. Wealthy werewolves might very well have a private bunker as a safehouse, others might be stuck haunting the subways late at night, or living in abandoned buildings or shelters.

As for what happens if a hunter locates the safehouse, that depends on the werewolves in question, and they people they happen to be. They could kill him, could convert him, could mislead him, could trap him in there with them and light the building on fire, or they could run away, they could invite him in for tea and crumpets, they could ask him to go away, they could file a complaint with the hunter headquarters, they could demand tribute for his entering their territory, they could turn into geese and fly away, wigmonsters could show up and destroy the entire area, they could call the police, they could call PETA, they could call the hospital, they could call a restaurant and order pizza, they could call their regional Wal-Mart sales director, they could challenge him to a Children's Card Game, they could boil him, they could bake him, they could stuff him in a stew, they could call a different pack for aid, they could procure bodies resembling themselves and burn the safehouse down so the hunter thinks they're dead, they could go to Munich and join the circus, roving bands of feral real estate agents could happen upon them and break into a tribal song and dance while the werewolves hold hands with the hunter and sing "Hakuna Matata.", they could unzip the costumes and reveal they were actually B-list 80's pop stars and that breast cancer is more serious than the average person thinks...

You see where I'm going with this? You're essentially asking "What do people do when stuff happens.", "What do houses look like?", "How do things behave?", "I'm thinking of a number between -9,999,999,999 and infinity, guess what it is.".
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Lupin »

Wingman wrote: As for what happens if a hunter locates the safehouse, that depends on the werewolves in question, and they people they happen to be. They could kill him, could convert him, could mislead him, could trap him in there with them and light the building on fire, or they could run away, they could invite him in for tea and crumpets, they could ask him to go away, they could file a complaint with the hunter headquarters, they could demand tribute for his entering their territory, they could turn into geese and fly away, wigmonsters could show up and destroy the entire area, they could call the police, they could call PETA, they could call the hospital, they could call a restaurant and order pizza, they could call their regional Wal-Mart sales director, they could challenge him to a Children's Card Game, they could boil him, they could bake him, they could stuff him in a stew, they could call a different pack for aid, they could procure bodies resembling themselves and burn the safehouse down so the hunter thinks they're dead, they could go to Munich and join the circus, roving bands of feral real estate agents could happen upon them and break into a tribal song and dance while the werewolves hold hands with the hunter and sing "Hakuna Matata.", they could unzip the costumes and reveal they were actually B-list 80's pop stars and that breast cancer is more serious than the average person thinks...
Oooh and we could call it A Very Special Episode!

You see where I'm going with this? You're essentially asking "What do people do when stuff happens.", "What do houses look like?", "How do things behave?", "I'm thinking of a number between -9,999,999,999 and infinity, guess what it is.".
Negative infinity or positive infinity?
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Dreamer »

Well, for the safehouses, I did have a few ideas of my own. They would probably have to be very cheap and inconspicuous (Not even having windows), the former for if it is discovered by a hunter has to be destroyed and the latter to keep said hunter from discovering it. It would probably be located on the outskirts of any area, rural or urban, that it's in, and would be made of cheap materials that could be bought or harvested (such as logs for a small cabin in the woods). The furnishings would probably be sparse and cheap,such as a large plastic ice cooler to refrigerate food, a home-made wardrobe to hold things they need, a few chairs, sleeping bags and other such things. The place would probably scaled to a werewolf's size and there might be some training equipment if the area is desolate and without any natural scenery to practice upon. It would not just function as a safe place for a new were to hide, but also as a meeting palce for the pack on full moons. If it was discovered by the Hunters organization, it would immediately be burned and an new one immediately made in an ew area. And they would get the money to pay for these from, if the packs in your series all know each other, by the most powerful and ritchamongst the werewolves.

But then, that's just my 2 cents.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

Dreamer wrote:First off, if a pack takes a new werewolf in, specifically one whom had no idea what he was until before the transformation so he had no time to prepare for the change, what exactly would they need to teach the new were to function normally as a werewolf? Things like how to change back and forth in between were and human form, how to walk (if in gestalt form with digitigrade paws), how to control one's instincts, how to keep one's new senses from overwhelming them, maybe a little of the REAL history of werewolves, other things like that. And in what order would one teach those things?
The thing about shifting and becoming a werewolf is that words can't accurately describe it. One poster here compared trying to describe what it's like to shift to trying to describe the taste of chocolate to someone that had never had it before. Some things are best learned from experience. For shifting and dealing with the senses, the only thing they can really do is let the newcomer werewolf know that s/he's going to experience quite a few things that will be completely out of this world to him and to make sure he'll have support when it happens.

Everything else, how to walk etc. is, in my own writing, pretty much based on trial and error. Different werewolves find different things easier than others, so for the most part, they pretty much just leave it up to the werewolves to decide what works for themselves.

Also, they try to encourage werewolves to stay out of their gestalt form whenever possible. Teaching them how to handle that form, a lot of werewolves interpret as being contradictory to what they expect from them.
Also, another question, it's about the nature of a Pack's safehouse. I was wondering, what would it be like? In terms of furnishings, in terms of location, in terms of functions and other things like that. And what would you do with it if a Hunter finds out about it, specifically the manner of destroying it and relocating to a new one?
Here's the criteria for the safehouse keeper in my writing:

1) There must be at least one entrance which werewolves can access and exit without being seen.

So a typical safehouse will either be right on the outskirts of town or on a dark, unlit street.

2) The keeper must have an excuse as to how s/he can pay for everything without leaving the house.

The primary keeper in my writing maintains that he works as a photographer, so he made his living room into a makeshift gallery with a bunch of framed photographs hanging on and/or stacked up against the walls and the like, and every now and then will give one of them to a visitor so they can pose for their neighbors as one of his customers. It's not actually specified that the keepers need to decorate to show off their covers (since a lot of them are retired and/or on disability for their cover), but a lot of them still do.

3) The keeper should prepare an excuse for why the door to their back room cannot be accessed.

There's typically only one room in which a shifted werewolf will be expected to stay, and the rest of the house will be just decorated to suit the keeper's interests. Some keepers make a hidden passageway out of the door to the werewolf's room, others disguise it as something else that any unwanted guests won't be tempted to open. The primary keeper, for example, maintains that the werewolf's room is his darkroom. He doesn't even need a darkroom since he does all of his work in digital, but should the police or some other unwanted guest come knocking at the door, he can usually just turn the red light on and everyone will assume he has photos developing in there. Again, it varies from one safehouse to another, but they all have some clever way of deterring anyone from going in.

EDIT: It's an absolute must that the werewolf's room not have any windows for obvious reasons, or at least not any windows that can be seen through, so typically that one room will either be in the basement or the attic. If there are any windows, the keeper will usually block them with storage boxes or furniture, as boarding them up might arouse suspicion from anyone that can see them from the outside.

Since werewolves have fur and claws, and because everything that goes in there shouldn't stick out on their expenses, the werewolf's room typically only has whatever the keeper can spare. Folding tables and chairs, maybe a sofa rescued from the side of the road, maybe a book shelf or an older model TV with a PS1 -- whatever the keeper and the pack supporting him can afford to spare. The only real must for every werewolf's room is a half-bathroom so any werewolves in gestalt don't have to hold it for the 6-10 hours it takes them to revert; anything else is pretty much just whatever the keeper can afford.

The only things a keeper really can't ever include are things that make a lot of noise (so if Figarou were a keeper, he'd have to settle for just the one massive entertainment system), or anything with a service charge ("Hey Lupin, what were you doing on the Internet from 12:00 to 7:00 a.m. straight?"). Energy-efficient bulbs are strongly recommended to keep the werewolf room from reflecting too heavily on their electricity bill, but for the most part, whatever's in the safehouse is up to the keeper.
Last edited by Terastas on Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by RedEye »

I have one question as to the original premise about this whole issue.

Why would a Werewolf not remember who he/she was and had been?
Unless the effect of Crossing is the complete negation of all memories, that wouldn't happen. I don't see Werewolves as being quite that mind-wiped when it happens.

What I do see is somebody who is in a serious freakout stage. "This is impossible, but it's happening to me!" What the n00b Werewolf would need is as much counseling- as confinement.

As to the access and exit, Terastas has it pretty well nailed. The lack the owner's outside activity could be explained by "crippling injury" or even a case of Lupus. Not leaving to pay bills is not a problem if you have a computer.

Location could also be in an industrial area. There are a lot of little shops that while occupied seem empty; and the delivery of food and other things could be explained as "supplies" or "product". Industrial areas also tend to be pretty dark and deserted at night; especially the older ones.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

RedEye wrote:I have one question as to the original premise about this whole issue.

Why would a Werewolf not remember who he/she was and had been?
Unless the effect of Crossing is the complete negation of all memories, that wouldn't happen. I don't see Werewolves as being quite that mind-wiped when it happens.

What I do see is somebody who is in a serious freakout stage. "This is impossible, but it's happening to me!" What the n00b Werewolf would need is as much counseling- as confinement.
That pretty much answers it. I don't particularly buy into the "giving into the beast" description, but I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that someone subjected to serious pain followed by a serious rewiring of their sensory feedback could potentially become confused, delusional, and might not even know what the hell is going on until their brain can translate everything they're sensing for them.

If that were the case, however, every werewolf that lost him/herself wouldn't become savage. It would be more like what sometimes happens to people when they get really drunk or experiment with hallucinogens; they have only vague memories or "weird dreams," but they can't recall exactly why they're out on the playground or what happened to their pants. The exception would be that a werewolf wouldn't black out and forget; he would just momentarily lose his ability to make sense of everything around him.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Dreamer »

Well, actually I didn’t mention anything about werewolves losing their mind after the transformation, although I do think that if they didn’t know0 they were werewolves beforehand they would probably have a very strong reaction out of fear. All I was wondering was what a werewolf pack would need to teach a new werewolf to help them get accustomed with their new body.

And I have a problem with the way I described how I would do safehouses up there. You see, almost nobody lives in them for most of the month (Although there are a few like Canis who do due to the fact that they don’t mind the conditions and like the location smack dab in the middle of nature) mainly due to the fact that they’re sparsely furnished and cheaply made so that they can be abandoned in case of an attack by Hunters and so that nobody notices them. But the problem is, how does one get new werewolves in there? I know that experienced werewolves in trouble could probably taught to locate ones in other cities by their pack (Usually being taught the general locations of the ones near their area, and to find them they just sniff for the werewolf-smelling place that looks abandoned), but how does a new werewolf find it? One way I can think of is that the werewolf pack usually finds the new werewolves and intercepts them before the next full moon, usually looking in the paper or news for reports of a “gigantic dog” and looking for the guy’s scent in the general area or just if they notice the scent of a werewolf they don’t know while going around the area. But I don’t know if this is the best idea. Can anybody help me out with it?
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

Well, the ideal safehouse would be one out in the middle of nowhere, but again, it's a matter of availability. Most werewolves wouldn't be able to afford a hundred acres of land, and even if they could, the more land they have, the harder it will be to keep outsiders from looking in. It would be a lot cheaper and easier to buy a house on the outskirts and block the windows than it would be to buy a large plot of land and try and fence it off.

Also, the cheaper a safehouse is to acquire and maintain, the easier it will be to acquire more. And the more safehouses a pack has, the easier it will be to abandon one if they have to. The safehouses in my own writing are usually maintained by uninfected humans, so if they think a particular safehouse is being watched, the typical response would be to spread the word through the pack that the safehouse on ________ Street is off limits until further notice. Since the keepers are uninfected, they can continue on with their usual daytime facade for as long as it takes whoever is watching them to move on.

How would they recognize it? By the duckies, of course. :D I seriously doubt a pack would ever actually write down the addresses of their safehouses, but they could possibly say what street a safehouse is on if every werewolf safehouse has some feature in common with all the others which a werewolf can recognize. The one that eventually made it into the script of Freeborn, for example, was the rubber duck sitting in the window.

It would also have to be something that the keeper could put up or take down without looking suspicious either. In the case of a safehouse being watched, for example, rather than spread the word through the entire pack and risk someone overhearing, they could instead just have the keeper take the duckie out of the window to indicate that it isn't a safehouse anymore.

As for new werewolves, well. . . There are some exceptions, but the way the pack works in my own writing, new werewolves usually stay at a safehouse. They'll have to bring him to one anyway for his first shift, so it's usually easier to bring him to one as soon as they can, that way they won't have to play beat the clock and rush him there before his first transition, and the newcomer can get some idea of what to expect by seeing all the other people that routinely come to a safehouse, both the werewolves that go with the intention of shifting, and the various "pack staff" that drop by to see how things are going. They can't accurately tell him what it's like to be a werewolf, but they can let him see for himself firsthand.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Leonca~ »

Haha, didn’t know the duckies actually meant something. :lol:
Haven’t thought much about safehouses. My characters own property that serves as “bases” for various activities, but I don’t know if that would count as the same thing.
For my characters, if the Pack has recently accepted someone who hasn’t gone through their first change yet it basically depends on how stable they judge them to be.
Many people feel uncomfortable with the thought of changing into an animal, and would prefer to figure it out on their own in private. For people like that the pack will simply try to explain the basics to them (what to expect, how to stay safe, etc.) and let them work through it for themselves. Most do just fine on their own and are not traumatized by the process, and may want to be around others once they feel more comfortable in their new bodies. This works well because they more or less maintain the same personalities when they change, so it is accepted that everyone will want to handle it on their own way.
For people that seem very lonely or nervous and likely to freak out when they change for the first time the pack will often assign a mentor to them, usually a fellow wolf who lives nearby. This person can guide them through the first change and make sure that they will be safe, and also offer their advice at any other time when the new wolf might be struggling and want someone to talk to.
How much support you get basically depends on where you live. The Pack is made up of wolves scattered across the whole country, so you’re equally likely to be the only wolf for miles around or surrounded by a whole community who can help you to adjust. It’s not exactly the most tight-knit group, as you usually imagine a pack being, but most new wolves manage just fine.
But that’s just how my guys handle it, of course. :P
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by JoshuaMadoc »

Pro-tip: Always survey the neighboring houses and take notes of their exterior appearances. That way you can have a house that blends in with the neighborhood if you're building one of your own or have a house that hasn't blended in well enough yet. If people can be real ninjas (mesh in with the crowd and not just the shadows), then so can houses.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by ToriathFallanor »

Dreamer wrote:First off, if a pack takes a new werewolf in, specifically one whom had no idea what he was until before the transformation so he had no time to prepare for the change, what exactly would they need to teach the new were to function normally as a werewolf?
Okay... I'm curious. Why would a pack want to take a new werewolf in just before he changes? I mean, if the pack wanted him/her, I would think the pack would have given warning in advance. Oh well...

I guess all the pack has to teach is its rules and customs-- it should be similar to joining any other group.
Dreamer wrote:Things like how to change back and forth in between were and human form,
Should be instinctual--or at least cannot be taught. Unless there is some sort of uncontrollable trigger (like a full moon or passionate emotion), the pack has nothing to teach-- it can only be gained through experience.
Dreamer wrote:how to walk (if in gestalt form with digitigrade paws),
Instinctual. It shouldn't be that hard--I mean, baby giraffes (at least I think giraffes) get up and start walking within minutes of their birth. Besides, this definitely cannot be taught. Have you taught a baby how to walk?
Dreamer wrote:how to control one's instincts,
Instinc- never mind. But this still should be learned through experience.
Dreamer wrote:how to keep one's new senses from overwhelming them,
Experience.
Dreamer wrote:maybe a little of the REAL history of werewolves,
Well, this and culture I guess are the only things the pack can teach.
Dreamer wrote:other things like that.
The pack can't teach much to the new werewolf, now that I think about it, but I think the pack would provide support to make the tyro feel comfortable. The point is to keep known werewolves close to each other so that they function as one. If one is in trouble, the rest should come to help. And if one slips up, the rest are in trouble too.

"All for one, and one for all."
Dreamer wrote:Also, another question, it's about the nature of a Pack's safehouse. I was wondering, what would it be like?
I guess it depends on how you portray werewolves. If they are nearly uncontrollable in 'wolf mode, then I'm guessing a building with a secret underground passage with solid steel walls. Otherwise, I'd say just about anything would be fine... though Terastas pretty much covered the important aspects of a safehouse.

I guess the most common safehouse would be a pub. All types of people would go in and out, so the location wouldn't be quite as suspicious. The pub would have a back room reserved for "special customers" only. Dunno how you'd get a inconspicuous exit though.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Wingman »

ToriathFallanor wrote: I guess the most common safehouse would be a pub. All types of people would go in and out, so the location wouldn't be quite as suspicious. The pub would have a back room reserved for "special customers" only. Dunno how you'd get a inconspicuous exit though.
Depending on the location, many old buildings had underground exits, either for servants, or for escape tunnels for aristocrats and nobles. Plus, they're werewolves, it's not like they're incapable of burrowing out an underground den and tunnel.

Since it's a pub, a rear service door for deliveries is practically a guarantee. Depending on the surrounding area, say if there's a drop behind or beside the pub then there's probably some stairs leading down. Not too hard to do some renovations and assimilate them into the building. Though streetwise people might notice their shortcut got eaten, and cunning detectives might notice there's a couple feet at the back of the building that aren't accounted for in the public record blueprints. Or the weres could build the stairs/ladder/elevator themselves if they don't want to absorb the existing one.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

ToriathFallanor wrote:Okay... I'm curious. Why would a pack want to take a new werewolf in just before he changes? I mean, if the pack wanted him/her, I would think the pack would have given warning in advance. Oh well...
Pending circumstances. Most people only know about werewolves what they learned from Hollywood, so the typical reaction to seeing a werewolf would be to run away screaming like a little girl. That said, a werewolf wouldn't always have the opportunity to sit them down and have a heart to heart with them. The current protagonist of the script I'm working on, for example, managed to escape with just a couple of scratches from a werewolf that tried to make a diving grab for him, and they only manage to relocate him after the viroid has begun wreaking havoc on his immune system. Ideally they would want to take in a werewolf the very minute he gets infected, but chances are they're not always going to have that luxury of time on their side.

I like the idea of a pub, though it might serve more interest as a meeting spot as opposed to a safehouse because people coming in and out would take more notice but would be less unusual. The only problem with a "special customers" room is that you'd constantly have people asking what's in there, how can they get in there, even trying to fake their way into it themselves (trust me, some people are just absolutely miffed at the idea of anything being denied to them).

Something they could try instead would be to invest in property with a commercial ground floor and apartments above it and have the apartments act as the safehouse with the bar financing it. The werewolves could (presumably) access it from the delivery lot behind the pub and nobody would get a bee up their arse about being denied access to it because they'll think it's all residential up there. As an added bonus, they could potentially use the bar as a meeting area to discuss pack-related matters after closing time; a bunch of cars parked outside or some umteen people leaving all at once would look strange in a single family house, but at a bar, it wouldn't look strange at all.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by RedEye »

The only difficulty with a Pub or a Bar would be the inspectors that could show up at any time. This would include Fire, Police, Permits, Health, Insurance, and the local Alcohol Board.

Just about any food/booze business will have these risks attendant to its operation. What might be better would be a Hardware, Electronics, or even a small Business Supplies store; if the idea of having an income for the rest of the building is used.
As a gathering spot, a small bookstore might be located in a basement or side-shop for people to gather without causing comment.
Heck, you might even rent out some apartments to the "right kind of" people.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

All good points, and all good reasons why the safehouse couldn't be in the actual business itself.

It'd also be the reason the "hidden door" method wouldn't be an entirely sound strategy either. If a fire, termite or whatever inspector came in and found it while they were poking around, that would leave the keeper in an awkward situation. It would have to be something that, when not in use, the keeper could open up and present if he was pressed to.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Wingman »

Clearly a library is the front of choice.

If I actually had to vote for an ideal cover, I'd say something related to the performing arts. It would explain strange comings and going, the occasional temperamental drama fits, as well as odd sounds, smells, and sights. It would also be rather avant-garde, of course. Werewolves pretending to be humans pretending to be vampires.

In all seriousness, the theatre/theater is the perfect cover for just about any supernatural. Misinformation is a powerful tool, as many have discovered. Thirty years ago if someone mass-produced photographs of a wolf-man there wasn't exact the whole "nice FX, but I liked the design I saw last month better" reaction that has been hammered into the public mindset by the movie industry.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

And now for some devil's advocacy.

Problems a pack might have while trying to hide in a theater:

1: It is a perfect cover, and everyone knows it. Play troupes and theaters have a long history of acting as fronts for pretty much everything conceivable. Ever since the acting troupes of the 1600s were outlawed by the British Puritans, the theater has had a long tradition of association with other dark and/or unsavory practices.

In other words, it's where I would expect someone to go looking for werewolves.

2: Quality and marketing. For a pack of werewolves to maintain themselves in a theater, they'd have to convince people that the theater is profitable. To do that, they would have to continue to produce quality performances. Good performances require good actors, and as our friend Bloodyredbaron can tell you, good actors are not easy to come by, especially on a budget. The Pack could not exclusively cast their own members regardless of their theater skill and expect everyone who attends to believe this is good business.

Which brings me to #3: Human meddling. Remember what I said about the "special customers" room, how people would be upset at being kept out of it? That goes triple for theater productions. Acting is one of those professions that everyone not only thinks they can do but can do better than everyone else in the business. No matter how good or bad the acting of the Pack is, there are always going to be people in the audience that will think they suck and that the theater must be desperate for real talent, IE: themselves.

And if they could somehow weasel their way in and replace a werewolf member of the cast/crew, that would leave the Pack puzzled as to how they can explain why the displaced cast member still has access to the back rooms while the new recruit does not. Sooner or later, somebody would try to sneak into the werewolf's sanctuary no different than the way they would at a "special customers" room at the bar.

Not that a Pack could ever have enough numbers to run the play by themselves anyway. Unless it was a small theater that exclusively specialized in black box productions or productions with small casts (like The Reduced Shakespeare Company or Mark Twain Tonight), chances are they'd need to hire some crew members from outside the Pack, and each new crew member is someone else the Pack would need an excuse to keep out of their Pack-reserved wing.

4: Safety inspectors. Remember the Station Nightclub fire? Nuff' said. Safety inspectors would be poking around the theater just as much as in a bar. There would be no secrets from everyone.

5: Size and security. Theaters might appear to offer a lot of space for werewolves to hide, but that also means there's a lot of spaces in which other people could break into or hide in. There's no way a pack could completely ward against all means of entry while still passing all of their usual safety inspections.

6: Continuity. The Shakespearean days where the same troupe performed in the same theater for years on end are pretty long gone now. Successful modern day troupes earn their living touring the country on the Broadway circuit, and successful modern theaters loan out their facilities to those traveling theater productions. A Pack could try to keep working with the same actors and the same plays year after year, but that would put a severe dent in their capacity to create the illusion of a profitable venture that I mentioned they would need earlier.

I'm sure it's something a lot of werewolves would try, but ultimately I think it would be too much for them to handle, especially on top of just plain being a werewolf.

A better option might be for them to try their hands at running a movie theater instead. Not a big multi-screen megaplex, mind you, but a small old-fashioned matinee theater; the kind that shows foreign films and movies about to be released on DVD. That would save them from having to deal with too many people demanding to be hired, there would be less mystery about it since few people ever expect to see anything beyond the theater, lobby and concessions, and it would save them the trouble of having to employ actors and stage designers. It wouldn't eliminate all the headaches associated with running a play production, but it would give them fewer of them.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Wingman »

Well, truth be told there's no such thing as a perfect anything. Any safehouse that could foil 99% of people who encounter it would receive immediate suspicion by the remaining 1% simply because it is so perfect.

Though, some of what I've seen so far assumes that the pack would need a space that's theirs all the time, which is restricted from others. Unless they're extremely territorial and hostile about it, or of the sort to leave the gnawed bones of prey lying around, or hanging around while transformed, then such a place wouldn't be necessary. Maybe the pack reserves the area every Wednesday and Saturday, or they meet up after the regular folk have all gone home for the night/morning/whatever. There aren't really all that many people who are itching to get in on the 3am janitorial scene.

Another assumption I've seen is that the pack is isolated, with no allies, and no influence on the area, either commercially or personally. What if the health inspector, the fire marshal, the night watchman at the strip mall, and the head nurse are all in the pack? Or what if they're freelance, or contractors for a foreign company and thus their own bosses and inspectors?
And yes, I'm fully aware that they would cast suspicion on themselves by virtue of being in positions of power.

The only "perfect" safehouse would be if none of the pack members knew where it was, or who the other members were, and each location was inspected and secured by a potent third party.
Aside from that, the second best option would be to not have a conventional safehouse. So far the theme seems to be that the werewolves need somewhere secure to transform in. It needn't be an underground den furnished with hides and antlers. What's wrong with a bathtub and a blanket if the transformation requires some lengthy writhing and groaning? Most people aren't going to bust down the door to actually verify your story that Marty has diarrhea, even if they're in the house to begin with.


Get someone to walk around the airport making a note of the names and addresses on luggage, then go use their houses. Thieves have done this with great success, families get back from their Florida vacation to find that some squatters moved into their house the day after they left, and left a day before they got back.

Werewolves have keen senses of smell, yes? If they do think a hunter's on their trail, it shouldn't be too hard to sniff him out, even amidst the bustle of a public place, then sniff out someone's drug stash and plant it in the hunter's car/hotel room/apartment/whatever, and then tip off the cops. Humans can smell gun oil, and cordite(smells which likely linger around firearms or people who shoot them regularly), so werewolves should be able to do so with greater accuracy and at farther ranges. Even if the hunter is licensed to carry a concealed firearm, or possess firearms at all, a call to the police or local security notifying them that he's got a boomstick tucked behind his belt buckle, or in his car, should slow him down. Stranger gets attention for packing heat, two days later random townsolk turn up shot to death, connections will be made. Even if posthumously, the pack will defeat the hunter and ensure that others might have an easier go.

Or the werewolf instead utilizes other faculties and plants some blood, or a finger or two, or something else that would get attention. That's sure to cause some noise with the local police.

Really, even 'weak' werewolves still have a lot of ways to protect themselves, it just depends on how intelligent and ruthless they are. Hunter's masquerading as animal control? As soon as a packmember gets captured they transform back to human and the others start shouting that the pervert's got a naked girl locked up in the back of his van. On a less risky side, sneak into his "No Animals Allowed" hotel room and mark some territory, claw up some furnishings, get him kicked out and banned from the hotel.
"The dog stole my keycard(or picked the lock, conned the person at the front desk, climbed through the window, whatever), transformed back to a human, walked through the lobby, then transformed into an animal and peed on the bed and chewed up the sofa." or "It's a conspiracy, she pretended to be my girlfriend so she could take a dog up to the room and trash it." isn't likely going to fly with hotel management, or the people in the psych ward of the hospital. Even with the benefit of the doubt, that's still attention the hunter likely doesn't want.


I'm probably far too tired to be typing up a post, so I'll stop here. To sum it up, we're essentially comparing cars and boats here. All the sailing tips in the world won't help you when you're driving a jeep across a mountain. Anything we say here is all circumstantial, what's perfect for one story and setting and cast is absolutely horrible for another.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Terastas »

Wingman wrote:Though, some of what I've seen so far assumes that the pack would need a space that's theirs all the time, which is restricted from others. Unless they're extremely territorial and hostile about it, or of the sort to leave the gnawed bones of prey lying around, or hanging around while transformed, then such a place wouldn't be necessary.
It's the underlined part that was my reasoning. One of the first things I remember us establishing at the Pack was that shifting would likely be a really painful process, so much so that I personally would not expect a werewolf to be able to shift to one form and back in the time it takes the average man to do a #2 in the bathroom. Whether it's because they're worn out from shifting to one form and need to rest before they can revert, or if resting is the means by which they revert, they'd need to have some place where they could stay for an extended amount of time unseen.

Mind you it wouldn't always have to be closed off. Just closed off if there's a werewolf in there. People might be suspicious if you tell them they can't go in there, but they might not think as much of it if you tell them they can't go in there now but can if they come back later.

Also, the entire safehouse doesn't need to be closed off. Just a part of it which suffices. People will be suspicious is an entire house has the windows boarded up, but most people won't think much of it if they get shown everywhere around the house except the boiler room.
Another assumption I've seen is that the pack is isolated, with no allies, and no influence on the area, either commercially or personally. What if the health inspector, the fire marshal, the night watchman at the strip mall, and the head nurse are all in the pack? Or what if they're freelance, or contractors for a foreign company and thus their own bosses and inspectors?
And yes, I'm fully aware that they would cast suspicion on themselves by virtue of being in positions of power.
Usually when I say "the pack," I usually include any uninfected associates they may have, but filling the ranks of all those jobs with their own members would be much easier said than done, and even if they could, arranging for their inspectors to always be the ones to inspect their properties would be even harder.
Most people aren't going to bust down the door to actually verify your story that Marty has diarrhea, even if they're in the house to begin with.
"Uh, Marty, you've been in there for three hours. Are you sure you don't want me to call a doctor?" :grinp:
Get someone to walk around the airport making a note of the names and addresses on luggage, then go use their houses. Thieves have done this with great success, families get back from their Florida vacation to find that some squatters moved into their house the day after they left, and left a day before they got back.
"Mom and dad said we could stay at their place while they're on vacation in Flor -- OMG ITS A WEREWOLF!!!" :grinp:
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Volkodlak »

Safehouses and training new Werewolf

1.)Safehouse
i think Safehouse should be normal house and keeper should explain neighbors that he works at home on computer(web designer,e-book writer,etc).
These safe houses must not have any sign(duckys,claw,etc) because when hunters figure it out safehouse becomes dangerhouse.Most shifts will be occuring during nights so you dont need too worry about visitors too much.

2.)Training new werewolf
As for training new one it all depends on control when changed better the control less training newbie needs
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Uniform Two Six »

lovec1990 wrote: These safe houses must not have any sign(duckys,claw,etc) because when hunters figure it out safehouse becomes dangerhouse.
:ducktoss3:
The ducky was more of a plot device. In reality you're right, in that you would not want to identify a safe house in any way if discovery was absolutely not an option. On the other hand, if you're not concerned about that (because, seriously, even if werewolves existed, would there really be that many werewolf hunters running around?) then you might be more inclined to have a way to signal other werewolves that you're "in-the-know". To expand on that point, I think the plot element of werewolf hunters is sort of strange: The idea that somebody is going to do this for a living is really absurd. If there were werewolf hunters, I imagine them as being more like racial bigots, or the Klan than anything else. Yeah, they don't like werewolves, but they're not going to go driving three states over to go hunting one either. It only becomes a problem if there's one in the neighborhood, and the dude that's constantly ranting that werewolves are real and stockpiling silver bullets is going to stick out waaaay more than the werewolves themselves, especially to the cops and mental health people (well, maybe not in Alabama -- but, y'know, most places). On the flip side, if werewolf hunters are only a distant concern, then the safe house marker actually makes a certain amount of sense from a safety perspective: If a werewolf passing through needs a safe place to shift, it's better for the local pack that they advertise the location rather than risking the stranger changing wherever he just happened to be and risk being seen (thereby endangering the local werewolves that he's never met). Not to mention that it can serve as a social thing -- "I was just passing through town and I was wondering where I could get an extra-rare steak, if you know what I mean" *wink-wink*...
Terastas wrote:A better option might be for them to try their hands at running a movie theater instead. Not a big multi-screen megaplex, mind you, but a small old-fashioned matinee theater; the kind that shows foreign films and movies about to be released on DVD.
Keeping something like that financially afloat would be a challenge, considering that they tend to drop like flies at the best of times. An abandoned movie theater though...

As for what should be in a safe house, here's my take: A big back yard with a fairly tall fence, a doggie-door, and very conspicuous signs warning people to "beware of dog". If anybody hears growling from the yard, nobody's going to think anything of it -- and less likely to bother looking.
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Re: Two questions... [Safehouses and werewolf training]

Post by Volkodlak »

uniform you are right, but if you are concerned about secret and safety you better not take any chances with signs or at least i wouldnt.

as for "beware of dog" for werewolf safehouse would be better "Never mind the dog beware of guests"
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