The link between Werewolves and Vampires?

[Werewolfdragon]

The link between Werewolves and Vampires? What is it?

I never understood the whole kill the leader you are back to normal thing. Or the wolf that bit you. Like on American Werewolf in Paris. I always thought that was pretty stupid.

I agree with you here to some extent, I beleave that the passing of the curse most likly came from the Vampire, The enemy of the werewolf. I could be wrong though.

Well, werewolves and vampires are fairly closely linked in many cases, in some cases I've found that the only differences between vampires and werewolves are cosmetic details and sunlight vulnerability. To my mind, the killing of the progenitor werewolf/vampire would break any supernatural influence they had, thus ending the "curse", such as forced transformations and inexplicable bloodlust. Even a basic psychic link could explain it, as the "master" werewolf/vampire is older, and thus will likely have a better handle on their abilities and traits. The bloodlust, forced transformations, and all that could simply be products of an empathic link. Once that link is gone the trigger is gone, and thus poof, you no longer transform on the full moon.

Though, I can't recall reading about a werewolf that broke the curse, and then later found out they could still transform.

Off topic:
The above is the last four posts from the posted topic "" A Werewolves Hands and Claws "" That was going off topic. As was requested I started a new Post ment for this topic, I hope it is to your likeing...
Back on topic:

As for my relpy to this new topic, This may very well explain where this concept came from. However If this curse is indeed simply a product of an empathic link, and not something done to the blood or the DNA it self. Wouldn't it stand to reason, A werewolf Or A vampire would not be required to ever bite inorder to force this change onto their prey?? I still think That it has to do with the blood, Sort of a form of rabies if you will just not deadly... So once again I have this to say. How is it that after you have become a Werewolf, and you kill the one who bit you, you are no longer a werewolf?? I can sort of understand this concept with a vampire because they have Very strong mental powers. However the werewolf Is mostly about brawn (Strength) not its mental powers.

[Leonca~]

Hmm. It might help to know where the idea first came from. I can’t remember if the whole “kill the werewolf that bit you to end the curse” thing showed up first in mythology or movies. My best guess would be that it comes from the idea of the werewolf being the result of an evil curse. Getting to the very origin of the curse and destroying it to wipe out all traces of the evil it created might seem like a reasonable thing to do, especially since it can be used so easily as a dramatic plot device.

[Aki]

The werewolf bite was stolen from vampires by Hollywood. It made for a much more compelling story element since it had more potential for unwilling werewolves than, well, taking a human-skin belt and wearing it to turn into one. Going that route pretty much defines your werewolf as a villain rather than a victim of circumstance.

However If this curse is indeed simply a product of an empathic link, and not something done to the blood or the DNA it self. Wouldn't it stand to reason, A werewolf Or A vampire would not be required to ever bite inorder to force this change onto their prey??

Not necessarily.

Think of it a bit like "Voodoo". Despite knowing the victim, someone who (theoretically speaking, anyways) wanted to perform Voodoo torture on said victim needs a stronger link than knowing them - they need hair, blood or something intensely personal to that victim (like, say, their wedding ring).

For werewolves/vampires, the bite could work like that. A taste of the victim's blood and/or flesh giving them that link to transfer the curse much in the way a it of hair tied to a doll gives the Voodoo dude a means of transferring the pain of being jabbed with a needle to the victim.

[Werewolfdragon]

Hmm. It might help to know where the idea first came from. I can’t remember if the whole “kill the werewolf that bit you to end the curse” thing showed up first in mythology and movies. My best guess would be that it comes from the idea of the werewolf being the result of an evil curse. Getting to the very origin of the curse and destroying it to wipe out all traces of the evil it created might seem like a reasonable thing to do, especially since it can be used so easily as a dramatic plot device.

I made sure not to say more then nessary about the following, Because I myself hate spoilers. So I have refrained from givving details, as best I could...
It is sometimes refered to as a " Blood Curse " However Take the first howling movie for an example. In it tword the end, Someone had been bit, or scratched by a werewolf, they killed this werewolf, I beleave, However this person Still turned into one at the end? I could be mistaken However I beleave if you look close enough you will find I am not. This is the only movie I have ever seen where what I am talking about the werewolves Quote curse was depicted as a part of the blood, Even I didn't catch this till later on, when I had watched it more then 3 times...
End of possable spoiler:

As for vampires, Yes killing one of them in order to remove this curse does somehow make much better sence...

[Vagrant]

The horrors of the silver screen...

I see no real link between a werewolf and a vampire, and to me they're about as close as a unicorn and a centaur; sure they're both capable of shape-shifting and they both have pointy teeth, but that's where it ends. Any similarity is purely cosmetic.

Before the silver screen and modern literature, different cultures produced tales of sapient Wolf-beasts and those who could assume the essence of a Wolf, and those tales were quite different to what one might see in a movie.

The thing with werewolf movies is that they are B-movies, they're a bit of mindless fun, they're amusingly stupid, often incoherent, and like many action films. If you turn your brain off you can sit back and enjoy them for what they are.

Personally speaking though, I'd never actually want to build upon a B-movie, because there's not really anything of actual substance to build upon. A lot of silly ideas came from the silver screen era, and they do confound and baffle me.

One such is any link between werewolves and vampires, for if one looks at the older stories of both, there is much to differentiate them, it's chalk and cheese. And ideas like killing the head of a Pack to 'cure' an individual, how could that possibly make any sense to a shape-shifter?

Instead, I go by older tales, different tales. Ones that suggest that werewolves are either born, or that they have a gift that they can pass along, and that they have their own culture and civilisation, a very old one that no one's really taken the time to see, despite it being right under their noses.

I consider the werewolf to be an entirely more civilised beast.

So to answer the questions; I don't think it's anything to do with the werewolf's blood because there's nothing to suggest that their blood is special, in my tales it's a 'virus' of sorts that does it, and the gift actually carries around like an STD. Simply coming into contact with any fluids from a werewolf can be enough to pass it along to the next person, simply because the virus resides within those fluids.

However, in my tales it isn't like 'contact with the fluids causes werewolfism, oh no!' either, it actually lies dormant and there's a form of meditation, hypnosis, and training that needs to occur in order to bring it out, it's very specific and only those who know exactly how it works can do this, people can try but there are undesirable results with that, fun, but undesirable.

As for killing the father of a family (or the leader of a pack, what have you) or the person that infected them, that's not really going to make any difference. The virus would still be present regardless of who was killed, and at the end of the day it would mean that the father of a family was killed for no reason, a brutal, barbaric, and monstrously evil act.

The werewolves I know are cultured beasts who care about family probably a great deal more than most people would, and try to uphold the tenets of their gift, the ideals of Wolf and even Man. And there have only really been one or two instances outside that, to my mind. Because that's just how they are.

They put the concerns of family above themselves, so they have a lot to think about whenever they act, and it's kind of natural to think of most of their kin (true relative or not) as family, so they have a more exaggerated sense of responsibility than the average human, which gives them a more peaceful nature, all in all.

They hunt for fun, and they play games, but there's absolutely no necessity for them to hunt, as much like the domestic dog they don't need to do that to survive, so the hunting becomes more of a recreational activity and something to observe tradition and ancestry, even if it's just werewolves with paintball guns (terrible to get out of fur!).

So I don't see creatures like that as having a whole lot to do with vampires, but that's just my personal take on it, because when I started building my own werewolves, I looked to much older stuff from a variety of sources, and in ages gone by and with cultures most may ignore, you'll find tales which would tell you of a very, very different kind of werewolf to that of the movies.

Plus: My werewolves think the occasional werewolf movie is good for a giggle and a riotous laugh too, it's less horror when you're the one being represented. It would be kind of like watching a horror movie about an evil, vicious monster-accountant or something. Utterly ludicrous, but so, so funny.

[Werewolfdragon]

So you have the same view point that I have as to the curse or blessing, depending on how one looks at it, being in the blood. And as is in the movies so often, simply killing your creator would not end
this curse/blessing. That was what I was mostly looking for with this post. I always thought it made for a dull ending, or at least an ending that made no sense at all. Laughable as you said.

My goal on this site is to explore the possibilities, and for people to come to a better understanding, so that those who read what is said here may make a better, future Werewolf movie, with a much more
realistically depicted werewolf or Werewolves... In order to do this One must have all view points, and explore all directions and possibilities...

[Leonca~]

The werewolf bite was stolen from vampires by Hollywood. It made for a much more compelling story element since it had more potential for unwilling werewolves than, well, taking a human-skin belt and wearing it to turn into one. Going that route pretty much defines your werewolf as a villain rather than a victim of circumstance.

I hadn’t thought of it, but that would make a lot of sense. I haven’t done much research on vampires, so I can’t remember what all the different ways are of becoming one. I just can’t remember any references to this “cure” for werewolves in mythology or folklore, so I bet that’s the answer.
Truth is though, depending on where you are looking in the world, the rules defining werewolves and vampires could be very similar. I can’t remember what country it comes from, but the myth that a werewolf that is killed and not destroyed in the proper way will be resurrected from the dead as a vampire comes to mind. Probably goes back to the times when vampires were usually depicted as being more zombie-like. It’s actually something I’m trying to work into my own version of vampires I’m making up to go along with my wolves.

[Wingman]

How is it that after you have become a Werewolf, and you kill the one who bit you, you are no longer a werewolf?? I can sort of understand this concept with a vampire because they have Very strong mental powers. However the werewolf Is mostly about brawn (Strength) not its mental powers.

Actually, in many, many stories I've read, such as Patricia Brigg's Mercedes Thompson books, Ray Garton's werewolf books, and yes even the Twilight series, there is a very strong "pack bond", to the point of the Alpha being able to command the rest of the pack to a degree that he shouldn't normally be able to, or the packmembers being able to sense one another, or even communicate over distances.

One such is any link between werewolves and vampires, for if one looks at the older stories of both, there is much to differentiate them, it's chalk and cheese. And ideas like killing the head of a Pack to 'cure' an individual, how could that possibly make any sense to a shape-shifter?

You mentioned that your werewolves require mental training and conditioning to tap into their powers. Now, if the pack alpha, or master, or whatever, is artificially allowing the packmembers to circumvent that requirement, then if the alpha is removed, only those packmembers who have attained the skills needed will be able to use their abilities. For the inexperienced, or reluctant, they would suddenly lose access to their werewolf abilities. I for one cannot recall a reluctant or forcefully-turned werewolf, or vampire, who intentionally tried to use their abilities after having gone through all the trouble to free themselves of the curse. Even if they do try, it is probably going to beyond their current skills.

I can see reason for a pack alpha intentionally withholding the knowledge of precisely how to transform, as a safeguard against betrayal, or to keep the others from trying and failing if the price of failure is costly. If it's a do-or-die affair, then it makes sense. Remove the temptation until they're ready for it. Though, I imagine your stuff is rather more benevolent than that.

[Morkulv]

I don't think there is a link.

[Terastas]

They're both monsters, they're both presumed to be capable of infecting others, and their presumptive method of infection is biting. Other than that, the only association is through Halloween and Hollywood. Werewolves and vampires are both part of the classic monster movie quartet (Dracula, the Wolfman, the Mummy, and Frankenstein), and are also the only two that survived long enough to be included in the modern day equivalent (vampires, werewolves, zombies, and ghosts).

The only other things they would have in common would be as a result of their Hollywood associations, IE: because people tend to think of them in the same regard, they may have identical survival strategies and may consider themselves default allies since they have the same common problems and agendas.

In other words, both in fiction and in real life, they're only related as a result of our own interpretations.

Personally, I would consider lycanthropy and vampirism to be polar opposites before I considered them to be related. Werewolves are typically depicted as difficult to kill while vampires are depicted as members of the living dead. Werewolves are attributed to have boundless energy while vampires can hibernate in coffins for centuries. They are as much opposed to each other as they are alike.

[Morkulv]

I don't think any werewolf should be based on the Wolfman, since that would mean that their based on Hollywood interpretations. I think Hollywood also came up with the whole idea of infecting others, since that is a more common tradition among monsters in movies.

To me, the true origins of werewolves and vampires come from myths and old spiritual believes.

[Werewolfdragon]

Well said all! my beleaf is that if you where to take out the triditional Hollywood view point on werewolves, revert back to the basic's and rebuild the werewolf, based on old-time myth and legands, while makeing them as real as posable with todays abilities, And taking out all or at least most of the crosses between other forms of monsters and other animals, They would turn out fantastic, Am I saying go back to the Wolf_Man costume? No Use every available Movie making up to date trick in the book and create the ultimate Werewolf movie But go back to basic's and restart from there as to how Werewolves Are suposed to act...amoung a few other point's, not many though. The movie endistory needs to talk to some well known People who has done alot of study on the (Wolf) As well as people who has made their living in the study of the human mind, and how it works, Then from this information, make one wild, crazy or even a calm or unstable person into a werewolf, thrue the magic of the big screen...

[Wingman]

For the most part, when I say that vampire and werewolves are more similar than they are different, I mean in terms of mechanics, rather than story. Point-by-point, they usually have upwards of 80% shared abilities, such as enhanced strength, senses, dexterity, regeneration, feeding off of humans, and so forth.

Really, you can use the exact same template to build both of them(for most varieties), with story being the only differences.

[Werewolfdragon]

For the most part, when I say that vampire and werewolves are more similar than they are different, I mean in terms of mechanics, rather than story. Point-by-point, they usually have upwards of 80% shared abilities, such as enhanced strength, senses, dexterity, regeneration, feeding off of humans, and so forth.

Really, you can use the exact same template to build both of them(for most varieties), with story being the only differences.

I can agree with that. However if you look at it that way, there are alot of other movie creatures that also share alot of these same traits as well. As for the werewolf/Vampire Topic Now days they are making alot of movies where vampires do drink blood. However, they don't eat their human prey,they never have. And anless they are Wild and less mannered, they get that blood from, " Blood Banks "...LOL! Where as werewolves still get their food by consumeing Human flesh, However I have only seen a few movies witch depicts a werewolf eating human flesh, most simply kill the humans, not to eat but to simply be killing...

One other point to be made is, Why don't the Werewolves ever kill other prey such as sheep, goat's, horse's, Ect... Or even attack a zoo. at night.

[Wingman]

One other point to be made is, Why don't the Werewolves ever kill other prey such as sheep, goat's, horse's, Ect... Or even attack a zoo. at night.

Because they're racists, that's why.

Well, there's also the fact that a werewolf's primary weapon, his bite, is also the method by which he eats stuff, so the line there is blurred. Really, the only way to tell for sure that he's been eating manwiches, as opposed to ripping chunks out of his prey, is to cut open his stomach and check.

[Werewolfdragon]

LMAO !!! Thats Funny!! I like how you put that...Wingman.

However, I have to disagree with you here. If seeing is the key to being able to believe, as is often the case in the movies, then showing a werewolf having a meal, would do a great job. I imagine it might even be preaty graphic. That is if they used all the movie making tricks now at their disposal...

As for me I would rather see someone gitting tworn to shreads by a werewolf having a meal. Then to watch a vampire biting someone on the neck to have a meal... It just some how seems, well better!