You're Take On Those Who Believe

The place to talk about where a lot of things started. Stories and history, references, etc.

Do you belive in the werewolves/think you can change?

...Damn no. I've still got my senses and logic.
15
16%
I like to keep my mind open to the possibility, but I know it's likely that it's not true.
63
66%
2 - Doesn’t really care either way
18
19%
 
Total votes: 96

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Post by Caine »

Well, it might be that the werewolf originated in Europe, but let's not forget that most cultures across the world have at least some mythology or belief in a human/animal being. You can look anywhere and find it: Mayan, Inca, most Native American tribes, many Asian cultures. I'm too tired to look up the specifics, but the "were" mythology bridges multiple cultural boundaries pre-dating of the spreading of ideas via travel and trade.

At least, that's what I remember from my myriad of history courses.
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Post by Absolute Wolf »

Agree with you on that.Yet it's hard to trace back,from where it originated as there are many sources.Every culture has it's own beliefs about animals, some date back to thousands of years.I'm not saying they didn't originate form Europe, they might have. (My opinion is that they considered Europe because there are a lot of different cultures.Then because any strange event was registered , while as it might have originated from elsewhere, but it wasn't registered.But thats only a thought)

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Post by Avareis »

I'm not wearing red shoes and clicking my heels for anyone. But, if you want to buy an actual bone of a werewolf I'll give it to you for dirt cheap. 5 bucks! I found it in my KFC bucket. It's genuine. Really!
:D
I let people believe what they want to believe, but I must say that bad things happen when someone sticks to beliefs. I think it's a lot better to have a good idea rather than a belief. So, if you believe, good for you, but don't dedicate your life for it. I met a guy that believes the world is going to end in 2012 and doesn't have a home because he's so busy holding up that cardboard news sign all day. If you don't, fine. Just, don't be hating. Everyone has beliefs to some degree and there's no reason to get insulted with someone else when they don't agree with your belief system.
:D I just draw an invisible line between that man and me. Hell, I'm not going to light up torches and wear a pointy, white hood to chase down people because of their beliefs. Screw that! Hell no!

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Post by wolf4life »

lol...doesnt every city have that guy yelling that the end is near???

:P
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Post by RoseMacska »

I don't think it's possible but could be probable, but my "theater of the mind" loves to play with the idea, especially were-cats.

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Post by takyoji »

Everyone's probably going to think I'm a complete mental case for all of my views on such topics. Basically I like to keep an open-mind. I'm actually so open-minded that I could probably wake up tomorrow in an empty white void and have some guy tell me that my whole life was a complete lie and none of it truly happened and that my life was merely an experiment, and actually believe it. No, I'm not trying to gullible or anything.

My take on werewolves is: what if there are a few hidden parts in science that haven't been discovered that could actually prove such a thing to be true? What if some of the discoveries within science that had lurking variables involved? I know I obviously don't have some really advanced degree in chemistry, science, and all that to "know" that it isn't the case. NOBODY can know anything as an absolute fact, as it could be some form of an illusion. Just because it seems valid doesn't mean it's true, if you haven't ever fell for a hoax before.. That's my whole spiel on how we can never be certain about everything...

And getting back to the topic about werewolves... it could be possible. It ties in with my little theory above somewhat. I understand the small theory on how it could work. Yet at the same time I also see the theory that if something attempted shape-shifting in under like.. 5 minutes at a human scale, it would practically spontaneously combust because of how utterly fast cells and molecules would be shooting around. And that it probably would be like nowhere near how fast cancer works (which I think operates at the max speed cells can replicate; bite me/correct me if I'm terribly wrong). Yet at the same time there could somehow be a possibility that we can't see through the tangled mess of various constraints.

And as I said, some parts of science could have lurking variables causing us to think of something as a law; however, potentially opening the possibility to stuff that sounds beyond fiction that we can't directly analyze. It's good to keep an open mind since anything could be possible. You could probably physically be living in a pod with a cable stabbed into your upper spinal cord thus creating a whole virtual reality of what seems to be real-life, like The Matrix.

Anyway, sorry to cut things short. Typing in a straight-jacket is rather difficult. And the people in the white coats that say they're going to haul me off to the funny farm are getting rather impatient... Otherwise that concludes my personal views on werewolves and reality.

And no, I'm not mentally insane and I was not hauled away to a mental hospital. xP
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Post by Blue-eyes in the dark »

Ok Dono i can see your point. but lets say that the person does not change every once and a while, but insted as you said before that it would have to be an evolution. lets say person A does change but each thing changed is perm. and he/she knows when the next peace of the evolution will come because it would happen either on a sort of birthday or stage in manhood as some tribes might do. Personally i'd put my belief in that before i would the the typical werewolf.
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Post by WereWolfBoy »

i believe im a werewolf because of several reasons i do not feel that i can reveal.
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Post by Anónimo Juan »

Why not? I mean it's intriguing ya' know. :P

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Post by GvnDarklighter »

I don't know why anyone would consider therian types to be dangerous at all. Folks might find their views odd, but that kind of spirituality is personal. On the other hand, I can see why people might find someone who believes they can p-shift to be dangerous, because lycanthropy is well known to be a sign of serious and violent mental illness (i.e. Peter Stubbe). Myself, I might be somewhat wary around a self-avowed p-shifter, but I don't find them to be a threat in general.

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Post by Blue-eyes in the dark »

WereWolfBoy wrote:i believe I'm a werewolf because of several reasons i do not feel that i can reveal.
Well, why not? if someone tries to burn you on it, then ignore them; besides, this is supposed to be a safe friendly site, so you shouldn't have much trouble. but if the proclamation to lycanthropy, is just to divert attention from your life; maybe, you need to rethink some things then.

Sorry if this came off to sound negative, i just don't want to see you getting pitchforked or hurt by any standard. :(
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Post by Black Claw »

I'm native american as i've stated before and i have to keep my mind open to a lot of things that go on in the world, werewolves is one of the things i've been told about so many times in so many ways and stories. My grandpa always told me that a werewolf was a guardian of the secrets of the heart, mind, and soul. If i believed in them, more than likely i'll encounter one in my dreams and in reality at night. i've grown and i still believe there maybe some out there that haven't revealed thmselves yet so i always thought so. i always see them in my dreams and at times i am one, in reality i've always felt i was being watched at night when i sleep and when i roam around my apartment complex. We have a ceremonial ground on a hill in the country and they say something guards it, one of the elders is always warning me not to go off the ceremonial grounds when i stay up there by myself for a week or two. Sometimes when i walk and i go to someone they think i'm the creature.
i did run into one once; i was checking the camps after sunset and something collapsed in one of the trees. i head off to check it out. as i get closer something heavy rises from the bushes, i know it isn't a bear or any other animal. I turn my flashlight off and see something rise from the bushes. I couldn't get most of the creature in my sight, all i know is that it was not normal, all i could here was a heavy panting, then a growl as it sniffed the air and it took off into the woods. I sat there for a few minutes trying to get an idea of what just happned and what i saw. After that i've always watched my back every where i go and especially when i go up there to stay for those few weeks. This is the first time i've told this so not many of my friends don't know about it. :howl:  :oo
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Post by RedEye »

Personally, I don't dis-believe that Werewolves can exist...

If I was wrong on the number of dimensions that exist, (and I was) then I could be wrong about Werewolves, too.

So, I keep an open mind. :wink:
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by Celestialwolf »

Black Claw, that's interesting! Lately I've developed an interest for Native American legends and werewolves, and what you've said sounds well explained.

I chose that I like to keep my mind open to the possibility, but I know it's likely not true. The thing is, I've heard of skinwalker stories where people can gain wolf-like abilities after engaging in certain evil acts or whatever, but not actually P-shifting. There are, of course, other stories as well.

Those that truly believe in P-shifting are most likely insecure about themselves-they just need someone to reach out and truly care about and listen to them. Either that or they are unsatisfied with life and want something different, more surreal. I wouldn't consider them dangerous per se.

I want few things more than to be a werewolf. I am normal (by most standards), well enough off, and am happy with my appearance and life. I can't explain why, but if it were possible, I'd do it. The only thing is, I have certain views of how they should be, and what if werewolves existed and weren't the way I wanted them to be? That would be disappointing but I guess I'd take what I can get. I avoid telling people in person that I am obsessed with werewolves, and I don't think I've ever in my life told anyone I really want to become one. I don't know if I ever can, unless I meet someone from the forum in person someday because I'm worried about how people would perceive me from then on.
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by lunarwolf »

I believe that they are real too. I guess you can call me a Mulder ( from X-Files) I believe a great deal of things plus I'm always looking for them, and I know a few people who has seen some unexplainable things, that people that believe logic blindly and would go great lengths to disprove. But believe me I try to make some logic out of it too but it seems to far fetched. Anyway I say we shouldn't just discard everything you see or hear, it's a big world out there, giant city full of life and secrets, wilderness, oceans, and forests far as the eye as can see. Call me crazy but there's no way we can be 100% sure of the paranormal doesn't exists there. Like I said the world is big and until every man, tree, ocean, animal, has been inspected I will be a Mulder always.... (By the way Black Claw your not alone to witness one but I'm am not him, and some part of me always knew that native american's believed in the werewolf exists I'm just glad I ran into you on this site because like me I love to know more about these things you speak of.)
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by W'rkncacnter »

Here's what I think:

Most of what I know about biology says Lycanthropy isn't possible. There is no concrete evidence in favor of it, which in the realm of science gives most people credence to say it can't occur in nature or otherwise.

This is true; it is generally accepted (sorry folks :( ) that werewolves don't exist.

Having said that, I refuse to agree with that opinion. While I am currently a student, I am pursuing a career in science and practical research. To this end, I like to generally center all my thinking around 3 basic tenets:

1. Ask and learn. If you don't know about something, find out. The worst thing you can do to your mind is be ignorant.
2. Doubt everything. There is no such thing as a 100% brute fact in the world. Every law, concept and theory has circumstances under which it isn't true or doesn't work normally. Take everything you see with a grain of salt.
3. Ignore nothing. Just because something may not be true doesn't mean it is false. There's a lot of gray in the world of knowledge, and even with concrete proof of an idea presented, it is your scientific duty to look for the flaws in the world, and find out why they are there.

Therefore, while I have not yet seen any evidence that Lycanthropy is possible, I am keeping an open mind.
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by IndianaJones »

You know Science actually debunks the truth and the existence rather than show evidence. Because that's how science is! The way it is programmed in our minds makes us think that the movies, games, and novels we read and watched is that it won't exist because science can't prove it! We regarded as fakes or unreal. Science proves it by stupid facts that it cannot be real. It doesn't show what evidence.

Laws of nature?! Oh sure, it can be true.

If mythology was part of Earth's history rather than folklore and stories. Then I will be highly amazed.

If humanity always mention and fear monsters such as werewolves and vampires, it must be real. But we hardly see them anymore, because they have to be like humans in this world.

What if some of you people were once wolves then you died and incarnated in human skin?
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by Wselfwulf »

"Let us be open minded, but not so open minded that our brains fall out" - Richard Dawkins.

Some decades ago, scientists conducted an experiment involving the skulls of black and white men. Using ball bearings or some such, they measured, empirically, the cavity size and tried to use this as proof of white mans natural superiority. Objective methods. They found that the skulls of white men were consistently larger. Strangely, years later, the same experiment was done, with the same skulls, and no systematic relation between owner of the skull and cavity size was found. When an agenda and prejudice are involved, even proof gets skewed. If you
are looking for something, you will probably find it.

I am on the same page as Avareis. This thinking can lead to trouble, for the individual in the best case scenario. I have to harshly disagree with IndianaJones. I apologize, but cannot remain silent upon such sentiments. You should review the claim that science does not work by showing evidence. I think that was a bit hasty on your part. Science is not something we 'program' into our minds, misused as the term is, but a method employed to validate claims about reality. It is astoundingly unquestioning to take mythology as a reason to beleive 'it must be true'. If that is the case, we have many pantheons of dysfunctional gods with bolts and flames in their hands, let alone vampires and werewolves, to worry about. Perhaps we mention and fear such things because our survival instinct makes us paranoid of shadows and volcanoes. If you are willing, learn about 'unfalsifiability', and why this is not a good method to proove the existence of anything.
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by RedEye »

My own reference to dimensions involved what was then solid Physics, well documented and in accurate useage for over a decade.
There were some wierdos that said that instead of ten dimensions, there were eleven. They were silly, and we all laughed at them.
Then, as Physics improved and more work was done; something odd came up. While what we had worked, there were indications that we were missing something.
Yeah; like an eleventh dimension. It actually does exist.
Most of these dimensions last for less than fractions of milliseconds before they either fade or collapse into a lower energy state. That doesn't mean that they do not exist; they do, and are part of everything.
All e-dammit-leven of them.
Now, Werewolves... I've learned the folly of saying Never.
So, I'll stick with the position of: While it's most unlikely; there is no absolute proof that they cannot exist. It's just unlikely that they do. Maybe...
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by IndianaJones »

Science page taken from montalk.

Science encompasses the study of nature and its laws. Physical reality as we know it is built upon certain rules and structures separate from our own chosen perspectives. These can be codified in via mathematics or visualized geometrically. By understanding science, mankind changes his relationship with nature. Some use knowledge of natural laws to more effectively place their personal will over the forces of nature, while others use this knowledge to better harmonize their personal will with nature. The latter brings balance and bounty, while the first brings imbalance and dimishing resources. The world today runs on a power base that relies upon imbalance and dimishing resources to sustain itself as the sole providers of these resources. Technologies that advance individual freedom by connecting man directly with nature instead of through the church of scientism and industry are heavily suppressed or corrupted. Thus, technology — while not substituting for spiritual evolution — does represent an important factor in catalyzing spiritual evolution if it helps free one from material limitations and preoccupations.
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by Leonca~ »

As fun as it sounds, there is no way I could ever believe it would be possible. :P
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by Vagrant »

There's a quote I find relevant here. I don't remember the quote exactly (I'll be paraphrasing, at best), and I'm not sure I recall the source (but I think it was Arthur Clarke), but anyway, here's the quote...

"If a Scientist believes something to be possible, then they will most likely be right, but if a Scientist believes something to be impossible, then time will likely prove them to be wrong."

It's possibly these ways of thinking that have given way to the use of improbable. Therefore, my stance is that it's likely improbable that Werewolves could exist in our World, but personally I would want to believe that they do, and similarly to Midnight, I firmly believe that they should.

There is always part of me that clings to the idea of infinite possibilities, no matter how or where they may be realised, and therefore it's not hard to believe that somehow, a Werewolf could exist, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I like these kinds of beliefs because they take the dull and somewhat dead World we find ourselves in today, and make it a bit more fantastic, more colourful... lively. Overlaying the dream upon the reality.

This is all a very Grant Morrison way of looking at things, really. He's a comic book writer I really admire, and he covers this kind of thing with frequency. One of his best works was his run on Doom Patrol. At the end of Doom Patrol, the patrol was introduced to an entirely new World, one of infinite novelty and imagination, one where everything was beautiful and full of wonder. The story went that this World had always been there, it was just that people forgot how to perceive it, and that was the cause of most of the misery in our World.

I'm not sure if it's tragic or worthy really to hold on to dreams in such a way, but I find that I have to. I'm a cynical person, but deep down I still prefer to think that anything is possible, and given the right catalyst could make its way into our reality.

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Re:

Post by Werewolf Warrior »

Caine wrote:Well, it might be that the werewolf originated in Europe, but let's not forget that most cultures across the world have at least some mythology or belief in a human/animal being. You can look anywhere and find it: Mayan, Inca, most Native American tribes, many Asian cultures. I'm too tired to look up the specifics, but the "were" mythology bridges multiple cultural boundaries pre-dating of the spreading of ideas via travel and trade.

At least, that's what I remember from my myriad of history courses.
I agree, but it spread across the pacific, and also into Asia.

The only problem is that humanity thinks werewolves are diablo hounds, monsters, etc.

Now I ask you all. What makes them think the devil has werewolves as his hounds, heh the only thing he has compared to a hound is the three headed dog guarding the gates to hell.

Monsters? Not Really. more likely a missing link to life, kind of like Tarzan but in a different catagory(not sure which).

they just need to understand that werewolves arent monsters or diablo Hounds, but are living creatures.
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by RedEye »

According to my cheapo little dictionary, the word Monster...
Mon'-ster: a huge or very abnormal type of Plant or Animal.

A Werewolf fits, regrettably. :( The only way they might not be considered monsters is if:
A: There is a large population of them, or
B: They have a very good lawyer. :evil:

But, since (by majority) they Don't exist, then they aren't Monsters!
They're Chimera (or Chymaera). That even sounds nicer. :D
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Re: You're Take On Those Who Believe

Post by Kami »

As crazy as you think I may be, I do believe that werewolves exist, and strongly at that.
Personally, I feel there's gotta be something wrong with a person if they think they can transform
There is. It's called clinical lycanthropy, and I enjoy every second of it. And so, in this case, lycanthropes truly do exist.
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