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I'd like to belive that they are real but there just some part of me that says, hang on a sec prove it. On the subject of clinical lycanthropy I'm confused . Do people who have that just belive that they can change or do they "sleepwalk" but doing were-whatever things. Like attacking people. I read somewhere about someone who did that. It might just be me not understanding but can someone please explain what it is? (Wikipeadea doesnt help!)

Fenris wrote:I'd like to belive that they are real but there just some part of me that says, hang on a sec prove it. On the subject of clinical lycanthropy I'm confused . Do people who have that just belive that they can change or do they "sleepwalk" but doing were-whatever things. Like attacking people. I read somewhere about someone who did that. It might just be me not understanding but can someone please explain what it is? (Wikipeadea doesnt help!)

It's considered by regular humans to be a mental illness. People who have it believe at times that they've turned into a wolf or another animal, and will act like they are that animal. They can't realize that they're trapped in a human body, or perhaps they choose not to. So it's basically both.

If you were someone I knew, Kami, I'd be proud of you for taking that stance.

I'm about to segue into a topic here though that's one of those things that would likely have most people take ten steps back, all the while giving me worried looks...

There are various forms of insanity that are completely harmless, that's why I don't believe in institutionalising those people. After all, the experiences they could relate, the stories they could tell. In fact, I did know one person who was classified with a mental illness or two, and he was one of the most entertaining people I've ever been around.

As long as a person; A) isn't a threat to society, and life in general, and B) can still be a productive member of society, without simply sitting somewhere dribbling on themselves, then I see no reason why they can't be left to their insane urges.

Clinical lycanthropy sounds like it would be interesting, after all. It's not something I have, but it certainly sounds like life would be more interesting withh it. If it were completely uncontrollable though, that'd probably be bad, but if the person inflicted were convinced that they were only able to shift under a full moon -- a big back garden with tall fences should suffice.

I know there are probably so many things wrong with what I've just said there, but often the World inside a person's head is far more interesting than the World without, and I'm sure that most of societies ills are probably down to the inherent lack Humanity seems to have of being able to safely and fully express themselves, without fear of repercussion (even if they're doing no conceivable harm).

That was rather insightful vagrant.

but often the World inside a person's head is far more interesting than the World without

Oddly, reminds me of a quote I heard recently but can't place where I heard it: "Life is more bizzarre than anything man could possibility imagine."

Of course, I lean a lot more towards your paradigm that the philoshopy represented in that quote, as I have a slight habit of being more cerebral than impulsive.

Anyhow, about disorders: That's precisely my veiw on insanity, because heck, we could all be insane and not know it. Usually, mental disparities are not considered 'disorders' until the anomaly seriously affects the individual's functionality. Schizophrenia is an example of a disease where treatment is occasionally held to the discretion of the affected -- especially considering the cases where some schizophrenics had difficultes coping with life after their voices were gone.

Remember; Sanity is a nebulous thing at best.
Society is always sane, no matter what.

I believe that Sanity is more a criteria than an absolute at any rate. We all know the "slightly off" old man or old lady who talks to trees and rocks (as an example) and we simply consider them eccentric, not insane.
I think it becomes insanity when it becomes damaging to people, including the person who may/may not be insane. No damage, no insanity.

Funny thing: those people who talk to trees and such frequently are sources of very good wisdom...useful information for others to live by. Maybe a bit of craziness is beneficial at times.

I bet Red-Eye talks to trees.

This is why I have a great deal of respect for this forum, things are considered so intelligently that it just makes me smile.

outward:

I know what you mean, I've never found it true that life is really bizarre at all, because taken objectively, life is astoundingly dull. It's only when an individual's own personal perception is overlaid with their imagination does life become any kind of interesting, and I think without that we'd all go crazy in a very bad way.

This is something that's very evident in Children more so than adults, even, and it's a truth that was covered so veryy well by the Calven & Hobbes comic. Calvin always found life so absurdly boring that he often resorted to adding things from his own imaination to it, just to spice it up. What with his schoolteacher becoming an alien for Spaceman Spiff to battle and whatnot.

And I find that kids are actually like that, that's why I value them. I get on great with kids more than most usually, and I love talking with them just to see what they have to say. Usually the way they perceive the World is glorious and artful, but nobody really takes the time to notice, the same is true with people whom society would consider eccentric or insane.

There's this series of comics I love called Doom Patrol, and my favourite issues were the section penned by Grant Morrison, the last comic of his run really hit home for me. It dealt with a person whom tended to live inside her head, she spent most of her time sleeping because of it, because she had grown so attached to her World that she couldn't leave it behind, she believed that sleeping was a portal to another World, and her people needed her.

Instead of simply allowing her to go on this way, one of the therapists used ECT to "cure" her, and he managed to do it. She eventually returned to normal, she got a job, she vegged out in front of the TV like the everyday person, she lead a normal, average life. But those who knew her before said the light had ust gone out in her eyes, like there was nothing left of whatever mde her special.

Eventually, she found she couldn't cope, the World was so amazingly grey and depressing without hher imagination to accompany it that she attempted suicide. That's not what actually happened, but that's a story for another time.

So I can see where you're coming from outward about people who have a more difficult time trying to cope after they lose their personal brand of insanity than before. This is why I tell people that if they have a form of insanity, then providing it isn't going to do them or anyone else harm, they should really welcome and explore it.

RedEye:

I agree with you completely about that, and I actually have an inkling as to why this is. It's because that kind of person has a very broad mind, they're capable of considering a multitude of possiblities that would simply fly by a more average person. It's not that they're observant, but they have this bizarre form of paraobservance, to coin a term. They consider possibilities that simply wouldn't occur to most, and hterefore their wisdom is more valuable.

Every person with different life experiences is going to have different perceptions of things, and the more people trust themselves and their subjective experiences, the more fascinating their opinions will be. Objectivity certainly has its lace, and we wouldn't have Science without it, but it seems to me that a lot of people are simply afraid to be subjective, or at least afraid to admit to the next person how they see something, out of the fear of being perceived as abnormal.

But for those that don't care about coming across as abnormal, they're always better to listen to.

Oh and talking to trees -- doesn't everyone anthropomorphise things? Imaginary friends are an element of one's psyche given name and form, and Children often similarly name toys and objects, geeks can name swords and PCs, et cetera. That again is simply overlaying one's view of reality over what's objectively there. It's perhaps one little bit of crazy that everyone has ... but some are more willing to admit it than others. Some will name their gaming rigs, others will name trees individually and talk to 'em.

Once again though, I have to thank you both, opinions like that are wholly refreshing.

.

wolf4life wrote:lol...doesnt every city have that guy yelling that the end is near???

Yep. Can't escape it, even where I live (not accounting that I'm the guy who did that, And it was only once; for kicks, I don live by route 66 (sorry, couldn't help it).
True story.

Good thing I just got a Border's card for christmas. I've actually heard a fair amount of praise for "Catch 22" in a couple places.

*adds to her "to-read" list*

I believe in wolven shifters (i don't like to use the term werewolf since i find it slightly inaccurate), i know they exist. I know the physical shift is real. I don't expect others to believe it because of the way things that are 'real' are presumed to be now. I have my reasons for knowing the way i do and they are my reasons alone and not to be shared. Simply answering the question. I think over abundance of trying to pin a scientific explaination on everything is why shapeshifting has fallen out of belief for the common populace.

Don't fight it. Let your Inner Wolf be Wild.

What do I think about people who believe in werewolves... well, there are many varying degrees and kinds of this particular belief, so my reaction is varied.

As for the people on the internet who actively claim to be a werewolf, who claim they can physically transform into all- or part-wolf, those usually fall into two categories for me.

The first kind is the one who makes such a claim under the impression that everyone else will readily jump on his side, understand, and be impressed. He's just an attention sponge who probably finds great delight in having "convinced" everyone. When his plan utterly fails, as it tends to do, he either admits that he was just playing games or retreats entirely. I can tolerate this kind of poseur because I can somewhat sympathize with their nerdish plot to gain more internet popularity.

The second kind is the one I can't stand. They do all of the above, but instead of coming clean when confronted about it, they become even more obnoxious, spouting nonsense like "I have my proof and I'm not sharing it" or just generally failing to produce any evidence whatsoever to back their claim. Yet they persist! These people insult me in two ways. They insult my intelligence, foremost, because they assume that I'm gullible enough to fall for some teenager's half-baked internet story. Then they insult my spirit, and that's the worst insult of all, because I just might personally give up everything I know to find out that werewolves are real. It's like dangling a winning lottery ticket in front of my face and then snatching it away when I try and reach for it. Like a slap in the face... how dare they taunt me! I know I shouldn't let these internet pretenders, these fakes, get to me, but they make my blood boil all the same.

That's why I like The Pack's Den better than most boards, because the "I are a real werewolf" and "I know real werewolves" people are almost immediately squashed, and that makes me satisfied.

/rant over.

I belive some of the people here are people with wolfish mannerisms. Or have let go of fighting thier wolfish sides, and alowed themselves to be more wild.

As I've said before: Those who KNOW will never TELL, and those who TELL will never KNOW.

I think it's because we all have a deep down need in our souls to be wild.

I like my Steaks juicey. How bout you?

For the most part i agree wth Redeye. The real ones don't go around blasting what they are. Those that do don't quite understand what it is really about. LEts just say those that ARE real i don't think others wll take too kindly to someone hopping around telling the world all about werewolves. Personally speaking if i were one and someone was exposing us to everyone with ears and eyes, i would have them taken care of. Also seeing is not always believing and believing does not always come from seeing. I don't need a scientific explaination. Some things i just know exist. Rather than saying prove they exist i say prove that they don't.

Rather than saying prove they exist i say prove that they don't

Burden of proof, teapot, pink unicorn etc etc

I enjoy how proving they don't exist would essentially be the exact same as the process of proving that they do exist, and that proving they exist would actually be easier since you most likely wouldn't have to scour the entire planet. Thus, it's more productive to say "prove that they don't exist" than it is to say "prove that they do exist", since all it takes is you to stumble upon that one levitating monk and then you can stop and say "hah, they DO exist." rather than spend the next 400 years inspecting behind every rock and bush.

Me, personally, no I don't believe they are real. I have a hard time believing in anything, which is part of why I don't automatically say something doesn't exist. After all, I haven't met everyone, I haven't been everywhere, and I'm not all-knowing, so who am I to say something doesn't exist? Most stories, after all, are based on at least a small amount of truth. Though, as with most other stories, there's often an equal or greater amount of confabulation or outright fictionalization as well. After all, some of the people here know I'm sporting me a rather impressive set of chompers, a nocturnal inclination(the sunlight, 'tis bright), and a nice corpse-like complexion, couple that with a more superstitious age and I could probably pass as a vampire. Hell, I can pass as a vampire now, let alone in a day and age where you were accused of witchcraft if you experienced anything stranger than an irregular bowel movement.

Though, humanity has a horrible track record with dealing with "different", even amongst ourselves. So yeah, spring the knowledge that there are predator animals among our herd, and yeah, we're not going to take it too kindly.


When you get right down to it, "werewolves" have already been proven to exist, such as those exceptionally hairy Mexicans, or whatnot, and the peanut gallery of people who've gone crazy and partaken of the manwich buffet. There are chemicals out there that make us big and strong, there are chemicals that affect our brain function, and there's probably chemicals that make us hairy(though a noteworthy thing is that many werewolf myths(I don't care if you think they're real, I'm calling them myths) involved the wearing of an animal skin, so growing fur isn't actually required). Is it really so hard to imagine them all affecting a single person at the same time? Just like with the mad hatters, imagine if an animal pelt was coated in such substances, so that when it comes in contact with your skin you go high as a kite and get a mad case of the munchies? If trace elements are contained within the local food and soil, then a gradual buildup makes sense, or an addiction to something you only get once a month, say, from those exotic sweets you buy at the monthly marketplace gathering. It's just the most probable answer since a transforming anything, even a single celled bacteria, is going to strive for equilibrium. Hence, omnivores, rather than creatures that transform from herbivores to carnivores and back again. Within a few generations they would all probably be in a mid form, the stereotypical gestalt form, or something similar to it. In the same vein, what's easier, transforming from a man to a woman, or being a middle-form with traits from both?
So, not so much that I don't believe, but more that I'm skeptical. Really, it's an manifestation of 'once bitten twice shy', I've seen too many things I believed in collapse under their own lies to take anything for granted. I'm open to proof, but I look around and see no proof, only faith and vague reassurances. And I feel rather doubtful about "All will be revealed when the time is right." or some line about true believers only being allowed to know.

Though, if they do exist, chances are they're as stupid as we are, so yeah a mutual "What was that? No, you go ahead. Oh it's nothing, nevermind." thing repeated ad infinitum until they're both on their deathbeds and decide they have nothing left to lose by talking would actually make sense.

>Burden of proof, teapot, pink unicorn etc etc

How about a weregoat story?

>>Police parade goat as robbery suspect
>>Demola Akinyemi, The Vanguard, 23 January 2009

>>It was a shocking sight yesterday as men of the Kwara State Police Command paraded a goat as an armed robbery suspect. The goat "suspect" is being detained over an alleged attempt to snatch a Mazda car. The mysterious goat, according to the Police Public Relations Officer, Mr. Tunde Mohammed, while briefing bewildered journalists at the Force headquarters, is an armed robber who attempted to snatch the said car, Wednesday night, and later transformed into the goat in a bid to escape arrest.

See http://www.vanguardngr.com/content/view/27049/42/
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... theft.html

hahahaha fantastic

okay...I found out a few things with werewolves.
1: It is possible to change your form by keeping your mass.
2: If this is unhealthy, no. Unless you go around to school dressed up like a werewolf, (Except for holloween), you seem to be in trouble.
3: My comment: I cannot change but if anyone wants to show themselves off to the world, their a dumba**. Werewolves should stay secret.
4: They do contribute to the environment. They help by not polluting because they don't use as much technology as us. And their a hell of a lot smarter then us. Go ahead and criticize, I'm here to answer your complaints.

Remember; Sanity is a nebulous thing at best.
Society is always sane, no matter what.

While I tend to advise avoiding absolutist statements, you have an underlying point their that clinical diagnosis follows. Of course, 'insanity' is not a diagnosis but any mental illness must be having an impact on a persons functionality in society, and this is of course parallel to the expectations of society. It's one of the difficulties with clinical diagnosis, the definition of 'abnormal'.