IS thepack slowly fading away?

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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Scott Gardener »

To quote Firefly fans, or at least paraphrase the Browncoats: The signal cannot be stopped...
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Wingman »

MoonKit wrote: A heck of a lot of teenage boy fans. Though I don't know how much that accounts for. Maybe Freeborn should be made into a video game instead.
I approve of the idea, and it would solve some issues, but it would also cause some issues. A single misplaced [ can completely screw a videogame, whereas a bungled line isn't going to ruin a good movie.
I support videogame, or animated movie, because it allows us to do things that are very difficult with live action, or are prohibitively expensive. Having 'seamless' transformations is probably the most major issue, followed by locations and character details.
Regardless, I think that publishing the story in book format, unless restricted by some sort of agreement, would only help get the movie made, and potentially get the money needed to fund the movie.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Cain »

Now a video game with a werewolf main character i could definately use in my collection, that sounds like alotta fun, even for some girls that play some games^^ lololololol
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Scott Gardener »

The concept is so much more story-driven than most werewolf movies; I don't even think a questing game model would work. Too much would be lost in translation. A game set in the world setting could work, but not the specific story itself.

Still, something is better than nothing, and right now, we've got nothing.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Cain »

Well, maybe just modify the story, do something like Fable/Fable II, create a modified story where the player can choose their own path but it'd still relate to the original story. I dont know too much about games anymore considering i haven't been a gamefreak since i moved from my old home. But the bits i do remember make me want to play again:))
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Wingman »

Now, my knowledge about the actual storyline or plot of Freeborn is extremely limited to my discussions with my occipital lobe, but I think that any storyline with any amount of plot richness and depth can work as a videogame. The key here is that plot in videogames is so often relegated to the back seat in terms of visuals and mechanics. It would just take a lot of work, and a lot of 'unnecessary trouble', like having multiple playable characters each with their own distinct viewpoint of the story as a whole, and each interacting with the others to actively change the ongoing story. Each would be its own standalone story, but a segment of a larger whole.

This way, you can have a canon storyline, rather than just a canon ending, but also the option to explore other facets of the story, and to possibly change the story. I am probably getting a little too invested into the idea, since I'm sleep deprived and escapist, but a game that can deliver that kind of experience would be truly great. It might also be exactly what this story needs.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Scott Gardener wrote:The concept is so much more story-driven than most werewolf movies; I don't even think a questing game model would work. Too much would be lost in translation. A game set in the world setting could work, but not the specific story itself.

Still, something is better than nothing, and right now, we've got nothing.
The only way Freeborn would work as a game would be as an interactive mystery (a la Indigo Prophesy), which are difficult to market and distribute since they A) tend to get underfunded by the developers since they don't do so well, B) have lackluster graphics and voice acting because of that lack of funding and don't do so well on the market because of it.

It could probably be done for Freeborn, but it's one of those things where the movie would have to come first. Most people aren't going to buy a werewolf game and be thrilled to discover that you aren't fighting Templar or zombie types in it. They'd need to see the Freeborn werewolves in film before they could commit to playing as one.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Yeah, I'd take that a step further, even. Freeborn would have to be a huge blockbuster for that to work out (which is unlikely since it sounds like it's going to be -- at least by hollywood standards -- relatively low budget, which means that it won't get hyped as much either). I also don't think the Fable thing is very substantial. Most platform games are more along the lines of first-person-shooter, rather than adventure/exploration/RPG. Fable was quite successful, but it also had a fairly simple premise and somewhat broader appeal than "good-guy-werewolves", which are going to leave the average consumer with a What-The-F*** reaction. Nor did Fable capture any huge segment of the platform gaming crowd. If you have to think about the game in order to play it, the average platform gamer isn't entertained. They (as a broad demographic) tend to prefer such entertainment to be very passive, linear, and predictable. As one person I was discussing this very phenomenon with put it: "I just got off a twelve hour shift. I really don't want to have to think about anything anymore today."
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Yeah, I'd take that a step further, even. Freeborn would have to be a huge blockbuster for that to work out (which is unlikely since it sounds like it's going to be -- at least by hollywood standards -- relatively low budget, which means that it won't get hyped as much either). I also don't think the Fable thing is very substantial. Most platform games are more along the lines of first-person-shooter, rather than adventure/exploration/RPG. Fable was quite successful, but it also had a fairly simple premise and somewhat broader appeal than "good-guy-werewolves", which are going to leave the average consumer with a What-The-F*** reaction. Nor did Fable capture any huge segment of the platform gaming crowd. If you have to think about the game in order to play it, the average platform gamer isn't entertained. They (as a broad demographic) tend to prefer such entertainment to be very passive, linear, and predictable. As one person I was discussing this very phenomenon with put it: "I just got off a twelve hour shift. I really don't want to have to think about anything anymore today."
Funny, after my completely linear workdays, I'd come home hoping to find something that wasn't completely mind-numbing.

Maybe the ideal middle ground would be a sandbox game with "missions" that are linear but gameplay that is very much open-ended (a la Grand Theft Auto or Mass Effect 2). Then it could let players find out the hard way why werewolves in the Freeborn setting don't go rampaging like in the movies all the time.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Yeah, I was speaking of platform gamers in the demographic sense (ie: what will capture the attention -- and disposable income -- of the median platform gamer). There will always be a significant minority who do not fit into that mold, but that's not the group that most developers are aiming for. Just looking at what thus far succeeds in the market, the typical platform gamer is much more into mindless entertainment. Mass Effect is the perfect example of this, in fact. Mass Effect has a first person shooter element to it, but it is merely a part of a greater, richer whole, with an incredibly expansive world and (at times) surprisingly deep plot, complete with fairly weighty questions of morality. Now, we're not talking Shakespeare here, but I found it offered much more to enjoy than the average shoot-em-up. Now, with that in mind, look at the reviews it got. Most of the game reviews were quite negative. A few praised it because they could see that it was something substantially different from the average platform game, but most of the shooters hated it because it was too slow and you had to "wade through endless dialogue before anything actually happened".

Now that you mention it, though, I think that the Mass Effect approach might actually work for a Freeborn based game. You can go run amok if you want -- just be prepared for the consequences. I like that, but I also suspect that most platform gamers would have nothing but negative feedback from the game and quickly throw their hands up and say "this sucks, this game is stupid" and walk away. I just don't see that as having the kind of mass appeal that most developers are looking for. Of course, despite the hideous reviews, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 both did acceptably well in the market, so who knows?
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Scott Gardener »

Games based on movies, or movies based on games, very rarely do well. Usually, it's best to let the two genres stand apart. Star Wars seems to be beating the odds, if you don't count The Phantom Menace, which, while explosively successful, really in retrospect kind of sucked.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

It's true that the original Mass Effect probably would have been a depressing failure had anyone besides BioWare released it. BioWare was one of the RPG gods (second only to Squaresoft at the time), so they had a lot of fans of their prior work willing to give them the benefit of a doubt.

Mass Effect's real problem was that it was a shooter / RPG -- the first attempt at such a combination. Shooter fans hated the RPG elements, and RPG fans found the shooting mechanics choppy and repetitive. Still, RPG fans are known for being able to suck it up and endure a combat system no matter how terrible it is for as long as the storyline compels them to, which Mass Effect certainly did. What BioWare wound up with, therefore, were a lot of compliments on the effort with a lot of suggestions for how it could have been better, which is how Mass Effect 2 came to be BioWare's crown jewel so to speak.

Additionally, the Mass Effect series benefited substantially from Youtube. People would watch videos of it online and be floored by the fact that this was actually a game.

Yes, Mass Effect 2 still came in behind Halo 3 in terms of sales, but I ask you this: How many people out there are still playing Halo 1 and 2? Not many compared to the number of people that still go back and play Mass Effect every now and then. Mass Effect 2 may not have surpassed the Halo or Call of Duty games at release, but it stands as one of the few alternatives for people who don't like mindless shooters.

And seeing how much additional content BioWare has released for Mass Effect 2 (even though the ending of ME2 screams "there will be a ME3"), I think it's safe to assume that the minority of gamers who prefer a more cerebral experience is still large enough for a company to market a game with a high production value directly to them and turn a profit.

My point in saying this is that, while a plot-based Freeborn game wouldn't be well received by the braindead "BOOM! Headshot!" majority of gamers, the minority would, at the very least, appreciate it as something more original than the rest.

And besides, since when have we cared about the braindead majority? If we did, Freeborn would be in production with a lesbian werewolf sex scene somewhere in the script. I'm pretty sure one of the first things we established as a pack was that we didn't want to see it just follow the trends.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

I fully agree with what you say, I just still have to reiterate that you have to market the darn thing. If you can't offer a broad segment of the market to a potential producer, you can't get investment funds. "It's aimed at the market that the rest of the market isn't aimed at" is just going to get you politely shown to the door.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Uniform Two Six wrote: "It's aimed at the market that the rest of the market isn't aimed at" is just going to get you politely shown to the door.
*shrugs* Tell that to BioWare. Or Squaresoft, Game Freak, Blizzard, Rockstar North, Capcom, or any of the other companies that built empires by creating new trends instead of following the existing ones. How many people do you think told the people at Game Freak that Pokemon was too nonsensical to be a hit, said nobody would want to play a version of Warcraft online, told Rockstar North that nobody would play a game called Grand Theft Auto, or said Capcom was wasting its time with that "survival horror" game called Resident Evil?

The mainstream never said any of those games would work. Now they're the ones being copied left and right.

What some people might call a minority, others would call an untapped market base. Sure, some companies will show you the door, but others will be damn glad they did. :wink:
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Okay, you may have a point there. Still, I tend to think of Mass Effect as being something of an anomaly. Yeah, you might be able to find a company that would take a risk, but then you still need to stand out from the pack of other weirdos. It's still hard to reliably identify which out-there idea is the next big thing, and which is just old fashioned out-there. A video game revolving around good-guy werewolves (and not a first person shooter), would still seem like a bit of a stretch to some producers, I would think. Honestly, despite the fact that I would dearly love to see such a game on the market (and willing to part with wads of my precious cash for it), I still have serious doubts that such a game (even extremely well done) would generate enough appeal in the market to turn a profit. Remember that we're a pretty small (not to mention weird) crowd here.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by MattSullivan »

I keep telling you, condense this forum. you have TWO "general stuff" type of categories...you really need to simplify. And MAYBE, maybe, if you WANT any of us to get our movies made, then maybe you can spread the word. Help promote us. And all that that implies.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Baphnedia »

Just jumping in on the discussion right quick. Much as Matt said, for the number of users that are active on the forums, we hit a sweet spot, then expanded the forums, the membership expanded, hit another sweet spot. There are many more individual boards here than may be necessary. One of the reasons why I established a new set of forums is for the same reason. That, and the new start for me was needed because I'm not going to change my legal name to 'Baphnedia'. No matter how cool that might seem, it would make it a 'little' more difficult in getting games produced.

Anyhow, the issue for The Pack right now seems to be that there are too few users to keep the boards alive, with as many boards as we have. I'm suffering the same problem on my forums (we're up to 20 folks); and I have too many forums to get a whole lot of action there either.

http://forum.paradicegames.net/

There is a related piece of Pack business that I'd like to discuss, but it needs its own thread. :)
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by MattSullivan »

So minimize the packboards. Keep it real simple.

general werewolf discussion
Individual Werewolf movie projects
Creativity ( art, music etc )
Anything else ( non werewolf related )




And there you go.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by alphanubilus »

Sorry for the long absence, although I do tend to shadow the Pack here and there... I tend not to post a whole lot because, simply, I don't have a whole lot of time.

I thenk Baph and Matt have great ideas, as it will make finding things a lot easier and thus put more views and discussions within the fewer realms, vs. having a WHOLE lot of discussion topics with few views and responses. This will also help the mods.

As for my slow progession with HOD updates, dicussions, and such... I'm trying to put a few things together. I should have more updates once this year ends. I'm still being told that the production company, of whom wants to produce, HOD, is still extremely interested (as the producer is a friend of mine, that makes things a bit easier) and they hope to begin production sometime next year. :D
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

alphanubilus wrote:Sorry for the long absence, although I do tend to shadow the Pack here and there...
Don't be sorry. You're far from the only person that's been "absent" these days.

Though I don't think of its attendants as being gone or the thread as dying so much as that everything is just hibernating for the moment. We discussed and debated everything we could think of in the WSAWB forum, and now we're all just kind of keeping busy elsewhere while we wait and see what happens.

This is my first post in a while, but I still check in on the Pack at least once or twice a day.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Still, it would be sort of nice if AB would give us a little update on -- well, anything, really. That sort of thing always stirs the pot a little. Oh well. It's good to see a few of the old regulars poking around every now and then. I'm stuck on the wrong side of the planet in arguably the crappiest country on earth (with the possible exception of Somalia), so I'll take any socialization I can get. Howdy-Ho, Terastas. Long time -- no see.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by faladunaju »

I suggest to do something that will keep our message board alive, like meetings at chat-room every Sunday or so at 1 P.M. or something like that.....
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Figarou »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Still, it would be sort of nice if AB would give us a little update on -- well, anything, really. That sort of thing always stirs the pot a little. Oh well. It's good to see a few of the old regulars poking around every now and then. I'm stuck on the wrong side of the planet in arguably the crappiest country on earth (with the possible exception of Somalia), so I'll take any socialization I can get. Howdy-Ho, Terastas. Long time -- no see.
:D

The real question is....Why hasn't he? He mentioned that he was going to do Red Victoria at this forum years ago. After that.....he stopped giving updates.

You go to his Facebook page and there is tons of updates about other projects. There's even some updates at his DA page. http://abrownrigg.deviantart.com/journal/

But has he come here saying anything? Nope.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by JohnWolf21 »

It wont fade away with me still here hwlwnk
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Well, I'm quietly hoping he's just really busy with this Don't Look In The Basement project thing. I'm trying to stay optimistic that he hasn't given up on Freeborn just yet.
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