IS thepack slowly fading away?

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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Figarou »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Well, I'm quietly hoping he's just really busy with this Don't Look In The Basement project thing. I'm trying to stay optimistic that he hasn't given up on Freeborn just yet.
After seeing his journal entry at DA, I can't say the same. :roll:

He asked us want we wanted in a werewolf. That's how this forum got started. How hard is it for him to say what's going on with Freeborn? Is it on hold? HAS he given up? By not posting anything, I think he HAS given up.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Well, that's always possible, but I'm trying to stay optimistic. Considering how much difficulty he had in marketing the darn thing, it's entirely possible he just got completely burned out on the whole thing. You've also got to figure it's probably irritating to see all of the crap werewolf movies that have come out since he started trying to market Freeborn. He's probably got to be wondering how much of that is Hollywood basically ripping off his idea (at least in a vague way -- just looking at the sheer number of werewolf movies out in the last few years). And, let's not forget the whole economic downturn, which has pretty much sunk any projects that require Hollywood execs to show a hint of imagination. I can realistically see him getting frustrated and just walking away for awhile for a little breather. I still don't think it's too terribly naive to hope that he'll eventually get back to work on thge Freeborn project, especially since at least at one point, he appeared to have enormous enthusiasm for it. Lastly, let's not forget that there is a market for this movie, and eventually he's got to be able to find some production outfit out there willing to take the plunge on Freeborn.

Or, maybe I am being hopelessly naive. I'm stuck in armpit-central (Afghanistan) right now, and you sort of get into the habit of trying to look on the bright-side of everything, lest you go completely postal. Still, I prefer to be optimistic. Heck, if nothing else, I still got the faux-trailer out of the deal, and you have to admit, that it was better than most of the werewolf movies out there. At least, I think so.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Figarou »

Uniform Two Six wrote:Well, that's always possible, but I'm trying to stay optimistic. Considering how much difficulty he had in marketing the darn thing, it's entirely possible he just got completely burned out on the whole thing. You've also got to figure it's probably irritating to see all of the crap werewolf movies that have come out since he started trying to market Freeborn. He's probably got to be wondering how much of that is Hollywood basically ripping off his idea (at least in a vague way -- just looking at the sheer number of werewolf movies out in the last few years).

I've seen a few independent werewolf films out there. Lupin and I was watching one. It was so bad, I ended up taking the DVD out of the player, tossing it to the ground, and stomping on it with my shoe!! YUCK!! We was only a few minutes into the film.

Even if Freeborn DOES get made, how will the general public react to it? All of the werewolf fans will love it. As for the rest, who knows. I guess Hollywood doesn't want to take any chances when it comes to werewolf movies. But if that's the case, why are there so many horrible prequels and remakes being made? The remake of Fright Night bombed at the box office. The original was awesome!!
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Because the whole industry is run by people who know little about cinema, or the art of storytelling. They're the kind of people who love money-making-formulas, and other business theory crap. They operate solely off of the principal of "If you prodouce some piece of garbage, but slap a good name on it, the public will watch it, regardless of how bad it is". Or, "If you build it, they will come". Look at Beverly Hills Cop III. The first two were hilarious, but when the studio wanted to do a third one, the director and writers said that it was getting old, and they didn't want to do another one. What did the studio do? They hired some hack to write it, and figured that a few cheap laughs would fill the seats just so long as they branded the thing. Predicatably, the thing sucked, and few people ever know that they made a third one. The people actually running Hollywood know very little about making movies. They're all business majors with connections. The people who know good movies are the artists like directors, and writers. Look at James Cameron and the first two Terminator movies... then look at number three.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Because they know there are two groups of people they can always count on:

1) Horror / monster genre enthusiasts.

2) People who can laugh at crappy movies.

Those are people who will watch anything they produce, so they deliberately make their products as cheaply as possible so that the exclusive commerce by those two groups will be enough to make the movie profitable.

They don't care about quality. All they care is that they get back what they payed.

Anthony's challenge -- OUR challenge -- is convincing the studios that it would be possible for a werewolf movie to get viewers outside of these two groups if only the production weren't such crap.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

And what's frustrating is that it would not exactly be breaking new ground. Look at Bioshock. There's a videogame that's deeper, and generally more fulfilling than most of the movies getting produced out there. If 2K can pull something like that off, why can't a major studio?
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Morkulv »

I think the problem is that, if you want a good story like in the first BioShock, you would have to come up with a talented writer. There are plenty of good writers out there, but the thing is if you don't have any contacts within the business at some point you are not getting that lucky break.

Let me add to the BioShock bit that the first BioShock was probably a lucky break, seeing how they screwed things up with BioShock 2.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

I don't know. I really sort of liked Bioshock 2. At the least, it was still better than most of the other garbage out there (and a heck of a lot better than Bioshock 3 looks).
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Morkulv »

Its an okay FPS-game, but thats the whole point. The first BioShock was alot more then just an okay FPS-game. It introduced elements that were just completely watered down in the sequel, but you can play as a big daddy! Woo...

In Zero Punctuation Yahtzee pretty much summed it up perfectly regarding the gameplay in BioShock 2; the emphasis this time is on protecting the little sisters while they gather adam like at the end of the first BioShock, which was arguably the wórst part of that game. The ending in BioShock 2 is also completely terrible and not fitting of the BioShock name.

I don't know about the third BioShock though. From what I could see from the trailers, they are at least trying something different now instead of throwing old ideas into a new outfit.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Morkulv »

To push things ontopic: yes, the pack is dead sadly. I think this is kinda obvious. There are even 'latest messages' on here that were posted way back as september 2010, so what does that tell you? :P

I think the whole point of the forum was to (among other things) discuss how the perfect werewolf should be, to further propell the ideas for the movie. IMDB now even listed 'Archaic Redemption' as Brownrigg's next project, so that should be enough to tell us that Freeborn simply isn't going to get made (not anytime soon anyway).
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Sadly, I'd have to agree that it does not appear as if Freeborn is going to get made anytime soon. On the flip side, that was fairly clear as soon as AB started sharing the ideas that the "major" studios wanted to inject into the plot in order to get involved in financing it. I think that was the point that it became sort of obvious that they just weren't on the same page as either AB or us. Nonetheless, it still remains an intriguing concept, and there's always the chance that some executive will eventually go looking for something new at some point. Never says never.

I will acknowledge that the board is pretty much dead now. I'm on here every day or so, so I can attest to that fact.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Morkulv »

I think one of our bests bets to get something like this off the ground is to make a short movie, demonstrating the unique artistic expression of a concept like this kind of project. Only then do I see people being willing to throw money at it.

The director of the Silent Hill movie did the same. At first he couldn't aquire the license nor the interest, untill he made a short film demonstrating his dedication.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

The problem is that's essentially what AB did with the trailer. And, it worked... sort of. It generated interest for the project in a few corners, but they all wanted to f--- with it until it was every other generic piece of garbage already littering the theaters. As soon as it was obvious that AB wasn't going to give up artistic control over the project, they went elsewhere. That's what's so frustrating about the whole thing.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by alphanubilus »

Uniform Two Six wrote:The problem is that's essentially what AB did with the trailer. And, it worked... sort of. It generated interest for the project in a few corners, but they all wanted to f--- with it until it was every other generic piece of garbage already littering the theaters. As soon as it was obvious that AB wasn't going to give up artistic control over the project, they went elsewhere. That's what's so frustrating about the whole thing.
I don't really know about that... The original script AB allowed me to read had a lot of promise, but also had a ton of formatting issues, as well as some serious story structure issues. ANY producer, who was serious about bringing FB to the big screen, would have had to make changes. As a trained script analyist, I sent a full report to AB and Silver, and Silver basically snubbed me. Nothing in my report would have altered the over all story, nor made it generic, but would have cleared up a lot of structure issues, and Freeborn had plenty.

As we don't know exactly what those who wanted to finance Freeborn actually wanted to change, I think we need to be careful about dishing out blame. If I had to base my findings on Freeborn's script as to recommend or pass... I would have passed on it. I wouldn't have been able to recommend the script, in its current state to any Hollywood studio...
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Gee, that's too bad. I was not one of those allowed to read the early version of the script, so in truth, I don't really know what was in it, but eveyone else who read it basically seemed to regard it as something that was new and innovative (at least for almost a decade ago). Oh, well. If there were significant plot issues, then maybe they've really given up on it after all.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Uniform Two Six wrote:And what's frustrating is that it would not exactly be breaking new ground. Look at Bioshock. There's a videogame that's deeper, and generally more fulfilling than most of the movies getting produced out there. If 2K can pull something like that off, why can't a major studio?
Bioshock also had the luxury of time. The more playtime can be squeezed into a game, the better; an RPG that takes less than twenty hours to play through would be considered short. To that end, writers for gaming companies can devote as much time to telling the story as they want.

Movies, on the other hand, are considered to be insanely long if they even hit the three hour mark. If Bioshock were a movie, it would have to be gutted substantially just to get it to fit within a reasonable time frame.

This is the primary reason I gave up on writing Inhuman as a movie early on and instead wrote a TV pilot; because doing it justice under two hours just wasn't possible.

I still think of the Pack not being dead so much as just hibernating. I haven't given up on Freeborn being made; I just can't think of anything useful to add to the discussion until then. :P
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Scott Gardener »

Part of the challenge that Freeborn is facing is that studios are businesses--they are in it to make money. No, that is not being cynical. The function of a business is to make money--that is what businesses are for. They compete with each other, and the ones that win continue to exist, while the ones that lose shrivel and die. So, studios have to look at every project with money in mind, first and foremost. Whether or not it's at heart a good movie is secondary. There's a lot of bad movies that make a lot of money--usually piggy-backing off of formulas and name-recognition franchises. That's why we are seeing so many sequels and remakes these days.

To get Freeborn made, the studios would need to see something kind of like it raking in a fortune. So, we can hope that someone glances at it long enough to see the heroine stuck in the middle, the angst-ridden werewolf lover, and the intrigue involving werewolf society, and think "Twilight" or "True Blood" but with werewolves. Never mind that it's actually a brilliant story that takes risks. Hopefully they won't notice that part, because risks scare them. Most flops (Waterworld) were risks. Most lame movies that still follow formulas (The Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer) have a great opening weekend before disappearing a week or two later.
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Scott Gardener wrote: Most flops (Waterworld) were risks.
I hate to say it, but the example you gave sort of encapsulates why I hate corporate Hollywood. Waterworld and The Postman were essentially the same movie. Neither did very well (nor were they particularly fulfilling IMHO), but because it was Kevin Costner who wanted to do them, somebody green-lit the damn things anyway. Okay, yeah. Hollywood is a business. I get it. But there's a difference between a three-course gourmet meal at a four-star restaurant, and the drive-through at McDonalds.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Uniform Two Six wrote:But there's a difference between a three-course gourmet meal at a four-star restaurant, and the drive-through at McDonalds.
Somebody once wrote of the horror genre, literature and film alike, the the general assumption among producers was that the fans of such could not tell the difference between "top sirloin, ground chunk and dog s***," so they produce whatever is the cheapest to produce, "and guess what that is."

More and more, I'm convinced that's the way Hollywood works as a whole. So what if the film is an epic bomb? We won't find that out until after they've made off with our money.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

I just went to see a movie and the trailers started with the "new" Three Stooges movie. My reflexive statement was "I think Hollywood may be running out of ideas". The next one was for Battleship (the one based on the board-game of the same name), to which I added "Yep, they're out of ideas".
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Scott Gardener »

"Impact on sector A, row 9!"
"Return fire! Target region F, Vector Three!"
"No go! We missed!"
"Impact on sector A, row 8!"
"Keep firing! Move! Move!"
"Aye, Sir! Deploying... Zone B, Mark 4!"
"We're not going to make it, are we?"
"Never give up... Never surrender!"
"My God! They hit sector A, row 7!..."
"Impact on Zone B, Mark 4!"
"There you are!"
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by Terastas »

Scott Gardener wrote:"Impact on sector A, row 9!"
"Return fire! Target region F, Vector Three!"
"No go! We missed!"
"Impact on sector A, row 8!"
"Keep firing! Move! Move!"
"Aye, Sir! Deploying... Zone B, Mark 4!"
"We're not going to make it, are we?"
"Never give up... Never surrender!"
"My God! They hit sector A, row 7!..."
"Impact on Zone B, Mark 4!"
"There you are!"
"Increase speed, drop down and reverse direction!" :grinp:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Battleship movie started with two film production company CEOs making a bar bet.
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Re: IS thepack slowly fading away?

Post by WerewolfKeeper3 »

Terastas wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:"Impact on sector A, row 9!"
"Return fire! Target region F, Vector Three!"
"No go! We missed!"
"Impact on sector A, row 8!"
"Keep firing! Move! Move!"
"Aye, Sir! Deploying... Zone B, Mark 4!"
"We're not going to make it, are we?"
"Never give up... Never surrender!"
"My God! They hit sector A, row 7!..."
"Impact on Zone B, Mark 4!"
"There you are!"
"Increase speed, drop down and reverse direction!" :grinp:

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Battleship movie started with two film production company CEOs making a bar bet.
Ditto... but i kinda figured out a while ago that hollywood had no more ideas when they started remaking EVERY old movie they could get their hands on.
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