THE PACK Message Boards

It's sorta been burned out then. It wouldn't surprise me at all if 80% (or more) of the people who come on here talking about being a Werewolf are talking about the fictional kind. You've gone through just about every remedy possible and the best is just to ignore them (heh heh, which many of you seem to be incapable of doing).

Just curious, though. When did ya'll take that editorial position. When I was on before, there were a lot of Therians on here and the term "Were" hadn't gone out of vogue (and I'm glad to say, it's coming back). They didn't seem to mind it then - of course, it was under different management.

Well, heck, there's not much to talk about on this thread any more, so I guess I'll unsubscribe, and see if there's anything else of interest.

You know, as slow as it is around here, it looks like you wouldn't want to limit yourselves so much. A few of these "Wereolves"ight be interesting people who can offer something, but you'll never know the way you're going.

WolfVanZandt wrote:It's sorta been burned out then. It wouldn't surprise me at all if 80% (or more) of the people who come on here talking about being a Werewolf are talking about the fictional kind. You've gone through just about every remedy possible and the best is just to ignore them (heh heh, which many of you seem to be incapable of doing).

Just curious, though. When did ya'll take that editorial position. When I was on before, there were a lot of Therians on here and the term "Were" hadn't gone out of vogue (and I'm glad to say, it's coming back). They didn't seem to mind it then - of course, it was under different management.

Well, heck, there's not much to talk about on this thread any more, so I guess I'll unsubscribe, and see if there's anything else of interest.

You know, as slow as it is around here, it looks like you wouldn't want to limit yourselves so much. A few of these "Wereolves"ight be interesting people who can offer something, but you'll never know the way you're going.

Hahaha, I'm sorry to barge in here like this again, but I can't help laughing at your post. When we talk about werewolves, we always talk about the fictional kind because there is no such thing as a non-fictional werewolf.

To be frank, I've been here a long time and as far as I can remember the whole therian and otherkin-subject has always been a big debate between the sceptics and the others on this board, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about. This has never been a therian-community you know, this used to be a forum dedicated to a movie about werewolves - the fictional kind.

Well, since we've already covered the policy and such, I wonder what would happen if someone posted a video of themselves shifting. I mean, it would have to be authenticated and all that before it could be credible, but still, it might get pretty interesting.

Sharfan wrote:Well, since we've already covered the policy and such, I wonder what would happen if someone posted a video of themselves shifting. I mean, it would have to be authenticated and all that before it could be credible, but still, it might get pretty interesting.

Hrm. That would prove interesting on several fronts.
First and foremost, the video would be carefully examined and then pronounced an excellent CG product, especially where the human was replaced by the computer-generated image of the morphing Werewolf... Whether it was or wasn't. Yeah, we're that jaded and some of our members are that good when it comes to CGI animation.
And our official opinion would be that it wasn't real, as per our stated editorial position. That's what editorial opinions are: what we as members agree on as a basis for our organization and its rules, like no yelling or hitting and werewolves are fantasy.
That's us.
Now... Let's say that your proposed situation happened and a member posted a video of themselves shifting from smoothskin to wulf. The risk they would be exposing themselves to would be enormous. Never mind the religious freaks; think of what would happen if some medical company could provide the werewolf's healing, strength, and regeneration with the wolf filtered out. Think about what would happen. The odds of there just being one werewolf are pretty small; there would almost certainly be a population of them hiding in human society. Think about what it would mean to them to have one of their people doing "show and tell".
Think about what could happen.
Our official opinion is that Werewolves are creatures of fantasy. Reason says so. Science says so. Logic says so.
Simple respect, even for creatures who cannot exist, says so.

That's what would happen.

Suffice to say, it would get interesting. But, were werewolves real, you know that eventually there would be one of them stupid enough to do such a thing. It would be fairly inevitable, what with the law of stupidity.

But, yeah. Not saying I believe in them, but there is no way to be 100% certain of something, no matter what it is. There could actually be some loophole in the laws of physics that lets the werewolf go through something that scientists might have proclaimed impossible. There are still many things we don't know, even with how far we've gotten in the fields of subatomic and quantum physics. We've truthfully only scratched the surface.

RedEye wrote:Never mind the religious freaks; think of what would happen if some medical company could provide the werewolf's healing, strength, and regeneration with the wolf filtered out. Think about what would happen. The odds of there just being one werewolf are pretty small; there would almost certainly be a population of them hiding in human society. Think about what it would mean to them to have one of their people doing "show and tell".
Think about what could happen.

What could happen is that the werewolf community would think that they have to copy other werewolf communities stereotypically represented in works of fiction and pull off something utterly stupid, i.e. death sentence on the spot.

I'm sorry, but when death is the only punishment suited for exposers regardless of circumstance, would I have been a werewolf myself, I would shun any werewolf community in general and live very well away from them lest they want fangs torn off of their high-horsed jaws.

Honestly, I can't imagine any evidence that anyone could place on the Internet that would satisfy me. I would have to see it in real life.

I think at this point, it's pretty moot. In the early days of The Pack, we had a lot of younger people who were so eager to believe that they were willing to consider the possibility with very little convincing. Now, we're a bit more seasoned, and our threshold of evidence has gone up accordingly. At this point, with our lower traffic, we don't get them nearly as often. I suspect when the next one does pop up, we're likely to ignore him or her rather than pelting that person with gripes about needing to back extraordinary claims with credible evidence.

Scott, come on guy. Some of you love being able to be nasty with impunity, and at this jusncture, the mojority just goes along with the prevailing mindset - no questions asked. So folks like Mork don't get their ideas critiqued. It's a Rah Rah Rally for the home team. So the next time someone expresses a dessenting opinion, the exact same thing is going to happen.

In the "early days", ya'll needed people to give you ideas about the movie (or "wanted" them anyway, so you went to Werewolf Cafe and got as many people who would come over. Many of those were Therians....and many of those were not particularly young Therians. (Thanks, but I'm in my 50s). They came over because they were interested. When the movie part of it was done, they left because they were no longer intereted. It's as simple as that. Times change; idas change; and the current members can afford to be unappreciative of the people who were here spending time as "expert fans" because the people making the movie asked them to help out.

As you might recall, the original movie was going to be a rather typical bloodfeast and they changed the whole idea of the movie - to the point that they changed the name. I dare say, the typical werewolf fan likes the blood feast - where do you think the new ideas came from?

If folks like Mork want to think that there was any considerable controversy and they "scored points", then let him. There's not many here to disillusion him. and it appeals to his personality. It's probably the only perks he has in life. Let them play court.

I swear I unsubscribed to this thread. Does it resubscribe automatically every time I answer it? If ya'll are going to ignore people who disagree with you why don't you start now. After awhile your juvenility gets old. I will try one more time, though.

WolfVanZandt wrote:Scott, come on guy. Some of you love being able to be nasty with impunity, and at this jusncture, the mojority just goes along with the prevailing mindset - no questions asked. So folks like Mork don't get their ideas critiqued. It's a Rah Rah Rally for the home team. So the next time someone expresses a dessenting opinion, the exact same thing is going to happen.

In the "early days", ya'll needed people to give you ideas about the movie (or "wanted" them anyway, so you went to Werewolf Cafe and got as many people who would come over. Many of those were Therians....and many of those were not particularly young Therians. (Thanks, but I'm in my 50s). They came over because they were interested. When the movie part of it was done, they left because they were no longer intereted. It's as simple as that. Times change; idas change; and the current members can afford to be unappreciative of the people who were here spending time as "expert fans" because the people making the movie asked them to help out.

As you might recall, the original movie was going to be a rather typical bloodfeast and they changed the whole idea of the movie - to the point that they changed the name. I dare say, the typical werewolf fan likes the blood feast - where do you think the new ideas came from?

If folks like Mork want to think that there was any considerable controversy and they "scored points", then let him. There's not many here to disillusion him. and it appeals to his personality. It's probably the only perks he has in life. Let them play court.

I swear I unsubscribed to this thread. Does it resubscribe automatically every time I answer it? If ya'll are going to ignore people who disagree with you why don't you start now. After awhile your juvenility gets old. I will try one more time, though.

Damn, you are really desperate to promote therianthropy on this board are you? Like I said earlier, therianthropy and other simular subjects have always been a hot debate on this forum. If you don't believe me, do a little search for therian-topics for the past few years; most of them got locked after just a few pages. The reason why they got locked is because therians like yourself, like religious people, have trouble taking sceptic posts and thus resort to personal insults which in turn results in a flame-war. Your post is a very good example of this.

Let me just take the bait one last time and say that if my only perk in life is playing court, then at least I'm better off then a 50 year old guy trying to defend a rediculous internet-subculture.

*rubs his nosebridge hard enough for his fingertips to feel the ocular liquid leaking from his eyes*

You know, I find uncle RedEye slightly annoying on some occasions because he's 61 years old and he displays obvious outdated antics that I'd rather do without, which can't be helped because time moves on and some people don't catch on to today's form of casual speech as quickly as today's generation, which I don't blame them for so much, but thanks for one-f***-upping him, Zandt. BY A MILE.

I've tried being jocose to your near-diabetic cool-happy-oldie attitude, but seeing that I've recently been having extreme anger issues at just about EVERYTHING, and me being extremely angry by nature, this latest display of geriatric behavior only serves to make me further and further assume that I can't have a goddamn conversation with anyone older than 30-40 years old without having any subject degrade to this. Jack Chick is supposed to be one person. Fred Phelps is supposed to be one person. My GRANDMA is supposed to be one person. Both are NOT supposed to be every other older person.

As I'm speaking, I've sprained my knuckles from punching at a hard surface due to the utter stupidity of this. Again.

You want proof that the "nu-wolf" idea isn't infallible? Here's your proof: I'm never satisfied with nearly any werewolf idea I've come across, so I'm forced to satisfy myself. Oh, and get this: No one's truly happy with any one idea. Seriously, I feel like I'm the only one here who'd dare to conceive werewolves with pneumatic skeletons for bones, and I also feel like I'm the only one here who thinks that this idea sounds like an insult to a huge majority of this fandom (especially you, given your attitude), and I also feel like I'm the only one who feels like my idea puts me SO FAR AWAY from the fandom that I might as well not be part of this fandom.

You think you're being persecuted? I FEEL LIKE I'M ALONE. And don't think this is the first time I feel alone anywhere.

Sebiale wrote:Werewolves do not exist......yet.

Yup I agree. Just because you can't prove it exists doesn't mean it really doesn't.

A bunch of threads I've seen end up with you guys arguing like this. Although I may not have my own opinions yet on what werewolves are or could be, I am open minded to other possible explanations, but you guys (most of you) seem quick to disprove the validity of any other theory of werewolves, fantasy or real, and apparently therians that you don't believe in. I say we should just try to find a way to understand other ideas, maybe even incorporate them into a perfectly logical theory to prove the possibility of werewolves. I'm sure you guys have tried before but that doesn't seem to have worked.

But you are free to completely ignore my comment here because I am not veterans of the Pack as you all are. I do not wish to rub too many people the wrong way here with my mediocre opinions so I could get flammeed or banned.

hah! why would you get banned and or flammed?
That's one really reasoned post!
Even tough here the main point was, what to do with those who claim to be werewolves in real life and that got turned into a half flame war thingie and then ended suddenly...

Exactly. I thought I would get flammed or something xD

I don't really think action needs to be taken towards the imposters because apparently they all got flammed until they left or got bored. And that's my comment towards the actual topic xD

I know this topic hasn't aged that well, but let me just say that I'm sorry for having dragged this little flame-war out for as long as it did. I just can't sit here and take the utterly batshit-crazy bullshit that some people spit out on this forum. Do I hate the idea of a werewolf? Ofcourse not! If I had anything to say about reality and physics on this planet, we would have people shapeshifting into all sorts of creatures and anthro-animals. Just because you like an idea in your head, doesn't make it true in reality.

When I first got on this forum I had maybe dozens of theories about werewolves that all sounded plausible to me at the time, but as you grow up you have to come to the conclusion that this just isn't realistic. Either by yourself or by talking to somebody who has a degree in the scientific field. I hope people can understand the frustration that sceptics like me feel when somebody makes wild claims that don't hold any substance at all, and still expect to be taken seriously. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I think this is a rule that we should all value when people claim to be werewolves, or any kind of mythological creature on this or any other forum or website.

It did get a little out of hand, didn't it?

That whole argument been dead for a while. I do see where you're coming from, though, and I am very similar. Looking back, I can't see how I was able to stay on the middle ground, as I would normally take your side of things. I can't tell if its my ungodly patience or just the knowledge that if I got into it, then I would get dominated in some way due to my lack of knowledge. . . it was probably my patience.

The problem with werewolves starts from the fact that there are so many definitions as to what a werewolf is. On the basic level and mythological level, a werewolf is an individual of whom can assume the form of a wolf...can become a wolf. In ancient times, Native Americans were able to assume wolf like behaviors and even appearances to stalk and kill larger game. They imitated lupine "pack" behavior. This isn't uncommon. The Luprici of Greece wore wolf-skins during cannablistic rights. They would have appeared by animalistic, barbaric, and unhuman to the naked eye. So a person can assume wolf-like behavior and take on some physical traits even without true physical metamorphysis.

On the other hand you have lycanthropy... the mental illness. There are numerous medical documents proving that people can without a shadow of a doubt believe that they are indeed a wild animal and exhibit moments of insanity, where the individual would walk on all fours, bite savagely at anyone who came near, and in some cases actually ingested raw flesh. There are countless tales in old literature of people, of whom exhibited clinical lycanthropy. One of the oldest recorded accounts is given in the book of Daniel, concerning the insanity of King Nebuchadnezzer.

Then of course you have the "spirital" aspect of werewolfism, namely Therianthropy or the belief that your soul is that of another species. As I haven't studied much on this subject, I won't go into too much detail about it, as I don't want to be miss-repping it.

So there are many ways a person can say that they are a "werewolf" without defying the laws of nature as we know them.

However, to fully believe that somebody could completely turn into an actual wolf, one would have to fully accept the reality of the supernatural. A human being can not (by laws of nature) physically transform themselves into an actual wolf. Believe it or not, this actual argument is older than any one of us, and possibly all of us put together. This argument dates as far back as A.D. 300. Just like today, there were many people who either claimed to have the power to assume the form of an animal, or by the power of another were turned into an animal. As the early Church believed that only God could give such power, they proclaimed that these individuals were either tricked into believing they were changed, or fooled others into believing that they were changed. They held on to this argument until several hundred years later when a priest approached the arch dioses with a strange case. He told the story of an Ossery priest of whom encountered a talking he-wolf of whom had a dying mate. The wolf went on to say they were turned into wolves by St. Nautilus (aslo accredited to St. Patrick) because of their blasphemy against God. They had to live as wolves for seven years at a time. (Strange similarity to the Nebuchadnezzer tale). The wolf's mate was dying, but he wanted her to have her last rights as a human and more importantly as a Christian. The priest was in a pickle as giving rights to an animal was considered heresy, but as the animal had a human soul to deny a Christian their last rights is also blasphemy. The priest gave the she-wolf her last rights and then wrote to his higher ups, of which reported it to the arch dioses of whom passed the judgment that if an animal was found to have human understanding that, that individual's transition must have come from God, and even though the individual in question has the appearance of an animal, such as a wolf, they are still human and should be treated as human. (Read Metamorphysis of the Werewolf, by Leslie Sconduto).

So this in actuality is an age-old argument.


As to how we should treat individuals who come on the message boards and make exceptional claims... Well folks, let me be quite honest with you, most folks - in general - of whom come on message boards and claim to be a shapeshifting werewolf and run with a pack of other shapeshifters (most of whom are protecting us from the Vampire uprising) are just trying to get responses and make noise. It's nothing but a game, and should be redirected as thus... RPing in an RP forum section. If they continue to baligerant about what they are, their posts should be ignored whole-heartedly and or deleted by the mods. That is what moderators do.

Again most people that are just trying to cause problems have a pattern to their madness - per say. A. They don't really know anything about werewolf lore. B. What basis and logic they do have is derived from Hollywood movies. I would also stress that most of these individuals have an acute a version to Spellcheck and grammar checker... but alas... oh and C. they smell like cheese... No really they do! Sorry I had to put in just a tad bit of humor.

In short folks don't get riled up because of a post... It is a post. If the individual is being a jerk, the mods will handle it.

Sharfan wrote:It did get a little out of hand, didn't it?

That whole argument been dead for a while. I do see where you're coming from, though, and I am very similar. Looking back, I can't see how I was able to stay on the middle ground, as I would normally take your side of things. I can't tell if its my ungodly patience or just the knowledge that if I got into it, then I would get dominated in some way due to my lack of knowledge. . . it was probably my patience.

Thanks.

This forum might be half-way dead, but claiming that the mayority of this board's members was made out of therians and that that is the reason why its so quiet because they all left is just so rediculous that I had to say something about it. Nearly everytime I made a post and thought that would be my last on the issue, the guy makes another post with even more wild claims. Like the post where he claimed that the term 'werewolf' is a title that the therian-community has been "cheated out of"?

Well back in 2005-2007. The Pack's Den Forums was a lot more active since it is sanctuary for werewolf fans, theirans, and furries for which people can share their like-minded interests or people there have something in common. Don't forget the forums were created by the creator of Freeborn, Abrowning. When the movie was announced and the trailer released. It made so many werewolf fans to be happy that to see a 'Independent film portrays werewolves as a person like you and me. Rather than a human who becomes a monster. But then several years later. The werewolf movie, Freeborn has been finished or released as of now in 2011. No new announcements have been made and the Freeborn craze slowly died down. Most active members left or forget about it. So, the forums are not much of active. Also, so many repetitive threads are made by people here saying the same thing or question the same thing with different words ans such. Like those who claim to be werewolves and what werewolves should be. I guess Freeborn is still in development hell and no intention of being finished or released. Since the creator/director wanted to show the werewolf film to be a bigger audience like those of Harry Potter or Disney. But there is not enough funding or a company that can agree to distribute their film.

Another point: Someone who was changing computers might have accidentally left the address as "ThePacksDen.com" instead of switching to "ThePacksDen.net" and wound up with a dead page. Like me... That's over and I'm back.

And a fully vetted moderator too. For shame...

As far as I know we don't relate to those "otherkin" types or other subcultures. Those who start bitching about it, they should find their audience elsewhere.
This is about werewolves yes, but we arent those escapistic groups you can find from hunreds of places.

No export for you.

wow, what a heated topic.. i feel a little apprehensive about posting on this thread but i would like to preface my post by saying that what i am about to address is only my opinion and i don't wish to change any minds and my mind is pretty much made up on this topic.


Well first i should define what i think a werewolf is:
an individual who undergoes a PHYSICAL transformation into a wolf or wolf like monstrous, creature.
i like the werewolf of mythology and certain film depictions. i think if you asked the general public what a werewolf is, they would cite a physical transformation as key to the definition. I think the definition that has the largest consensus is the most valid. I think we discuss werewolves as fiction and thus arguments are theoretical.

I am an open minded person but i also believe in logic, reason and reality. I think there is nothing wrong with leading a rich fantasy life but i think there are appropriate venues to role play or fulfill fantasy. I do not subscribe to the belief systems of Therians, Otherkin and Furries, i think these belief systems are based in fantasy and they have pillaged the term werewolf. They bastardize the definition so that they can include themselves in the category. They site fictional, none scholarly. sources to validate their definition of werewolves. They site mythology and folklore as the basis for their belief system, but myths and legends are not based in fact and can not be authenticated. We are discussing a fiction creature, if we look at folklore and mythology as well as popular culture the idea of a werewolf that undergoes a transformation is prevalent throughout the culture. People who claim to be werewolves but appose the concept of physical shifting are trying to take a well established creature of fantasy and disavow the popular definition so they can include themselves in the category. I know that vampire fans have been dealing with "lifestylers" for years who have tried to change the definition of what a vampire is so they can fall into the category, ugh i now really sympathize.

so for those who claim to be real physical shifting werewolves:
i think the pack is pretty good at shutting them down.. to maintain the integrity of the site it seems moderators and members make it clear that these types of claims are unwelcome.

for those who claim to be Therians Otherkin or furries: These individuals seem belong to a subculture and belief system that are at odds with the classic, transformation werewolves. I think they have the right to believe what they want but they convoluted the definition of werewolf, thus making logical debate about the werewolf all but impossible. There seem to be many threads designed for these individuals and the discussion about their belief system, but if they are constantly disrupting the topic to reiterate their ideology, then i think the moderator should intervene.

Those who claim to be werewolves are often individuals who are marginalized by society and are desperately seeking validation and attention. They have been made to feel inferior, so they seek something to make them feel superior. Werewolves are fascinating and currently dominate popular culture. These people see something in werewolves they want to have. They are lonely, sad people, who are desperately looking for something to make them feel superior. I think these people are losing their grip on reality and may possibly suffer from some mental defect. I don't hate the werewolf wannabees, i pity them and feel frustrated by their assault on the definition of werewolf.

I don't think werewolves exists, but how cool would the world be if they did? Although i would be incredibly disappointing if the werewolves that could exist are anything like the therians. God what a bummer that would be, they would be so much less than i had hoped
I think the term werewolf should be reserved for the definition of one who undergoes a transformation.