National Transgender Day of Remembrance

[Set]

[Scott Gardener]

Thanks for telling us about this important event. Transgender equality is a civil rights issue that I feel will be taken far more seriously in the decades to come. It is also a necessary step in the evolution of humanity out of its adolescent arrogance and into a more mature consciousness.

I saw a bumper sticker that said that "tolerance is for people without conviction." I wanted so much to ram the guy off the road, grab him by the throat, and point out to him that the Nazis had plenty of conviction, as did Vlad the Impaler, Mao Zedong, and the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Conviction is not so wondrous a thing if it means blinding one's self to new information, scientific evidence, or the senses of compassion and decency that give me hope about humanity in the long run.

[alphanubilus]

Thanks for telling us about this important event. Transgender equality is a civil rights issue that I feel will be taken far more seriously in the decades to come. It is also a necessary step in the evolution of humanity out of its adolescent arrogance and into a more mature consciousness.

I saw a bumper sticker that said that "tolerance is for people without conviction." I wanted so much to ram the guy off the road, grab him by the throat, and point out to him that the Nazis had plenty of conviction, as did Vlad the Impaler, Mao Zedong, and the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Conviction is not so wondrous a thing if it means blinding one's self to new information, scientific evidence, or the senses of compassion and decency that give me hope about humanity in the long run.

So it is okay to be intollerant to somebody who disagrees with the above lifestyles? If you are willing to do physical harm, as your post clearly stated then in truth you are being no different than those who would seek harm...
Remember there is nothing wrong with disagreement in lifedstyles we choose to live no matter what the liberal bias tells us.

[sugarpoultry]

I know people have problems accepting their bodies the way they are, seems to be a lot more people struggling with this these days, but I don't care. If they have a penis, I will call them a man, if they don't, I will call them female. I don't care what they hope/think/say they are, you can't CHOOSE your gender...

[alphanubilus]

What people do with their bodies, is their own buisness in my book, but really irritates me about these "Remembrence Days" is what makes a transgender death so important we have to have a "Remembrance Day" for them? Are they any more special than any other death?

Murder is a horrible crime and it is sad that people would think so little of another human life to take a life, no matter the reason. Thousands of young teens die every year due to gang related violence, yet we don't see them getting a remembrance day.

As I've already said, killing somebody because you don't like them, or disagree with their lifestyle is morally wrong, no matter what anybody thinks, but basterdizing anybody who disagrees with that lifestyle is wrong and unfair.

It is okay for people to disagree with transgender lifestyles. That lifestyle is a choice, no matter what people say. It is a choice. Getting married is a choice. Having children is a choice. We all make choices that people like or dislike. That is the bueaty of being different. What I really dislike about this new "movement" is that these folks want to take away the ability to disagree.

As touching Jon's earlier statements... Almost every person I've ever met who preached tolerance, were almost always the most intolerant. It goes both ways.

[TakeWalker]

What people do with their bodies, is their own buisness in my book, but really irritates me about these "Remembrence Days" is what makes a transgender death so important we have to have a "Remembrance Day" for them? Are they any more special than any other death?

No life is worth more than any other, but yes. Killing someone solely for who they are is a terrible crime, and far more sinister than killing someone -- even purposefully -- for personal gain or out of anger. The Remembrance Days are meant to remind us, to drive home the fact that these people are still not accepted, are demonized, are treated like garbage, abused and even murdered for trying to be who they're meant to be, and that far too many people don't care about them or their deaths. Because after all, no human life is worth more than any other, but there are some out there who think that certain lives are worth far less.

[Grayheart]

I know people have problems accepting their bodies the way they are, seems to be a lot more people struggling with this these days, but I don't care. If they have a penis, I will call them a man, if they don't, I will call them female. I don't care what they hope/think/say they are, you can't CHOOSE your gender...

@sugarpoultry: And how do you call people who have both?

I know I should keep my mouth shut about this touchy subject, but now I can't stay calm any longer, because I strongly disagree with this. In fact, you can choose your gender, because Gender is a cultural determined definition of what we perceive a person with a penis or a person without should behave like. You can't choose your Sex, yes - but you can choose your gender. And there is NO DETERMINING CONNECTION between Sex and Gender-behaviour. That isn't to say that a body doesn't matter - in the end, some bodys can do this, another body can do that - but it is to say, that in the end culturally determined opinions make up the things that we call female and masculine behaviour.

What we perceive as typical male or typical female is determined by our upbringing in our culture - if we look at other cultures the notions of these concepts vary widely. There are a lot of 'Third/Fourth/Fifth ... Gender' conceptions in different cultures and our concept of a dualistic nature of Sex and Gender isn't very old - in fact it came into being with modern medicine and its attempt to make definitions of what is to perceive as normal and thus healthy.

This attempt at 'normalising definitions' resulted in a lot of pain that people who are transgenders or transsexuals - or intersexual - have and had and will have to experience. In regard to the last group there has been a lot of humiliating 'medical treatment'. In most of the cases intersexual persons are normalised into the direction of a female Sex - more than 70% - And why? Because - and this is a quote of an expert in intersexual surgery - "'It's easier to make a hole than a pole." I'm lacking the words to describe my personal disgust on this ... and before I write myself into a fit, I'll stop it for now.

Just people, please - think before you speak/write. And @sugarpoultry: I know, your worldview is strongly determined by your faith and like I said in other topics, I truly respect that. So don't take this as a personal assault on you, I beg you. But I cannot stay calm on this - I've experienced and learned to much about this topic than to accept the dualistic concept of Sex/Gender that western society has. It isn't black and white - or male and female, so to say. It's far more diverse and difficult and painsome for a lot of people.

[Berserker]

And there is NO DETERMINING CONNECTION between Sex and Gender-behaviour. That isn't to say that a body doesn't matter - in the end, some bodys can do this, another body can do that - but it is to say, that in the end culturally determined opinions make up the things that we call female and masculine behaviour.

Really? You don't believe in dimorphic brain structure, or genetic/hormonal behavioral differentiation, androgen/estrogen etc.? I was under the impression that these things had been proven scientifically.

[Set]

I think this is very appropriate right now.

[Grayheart]

And there is NO DETERMINING CONNECTION between Sex and Gender-behaviour. That isn't to say that a body doesn't matter - in the end, some bodys can do this, another body can do that - but it is to say, that in the end culturally determined opinions make up the things that we call female and masculine behaviour.

Really? You don't believe in dimorphic brain structure, or genetic/hormonal behavioral differentiation, androgen/estrogen etc.? I was under the impression that these things had been proven scientifically.

In fact, yeah - I don't believe in dimorphic brain structure, because this scientifically 'proven' knowledge was gained under the western (medical) assumption that they are only two sexes (unfortunately I've forgotten the author's name who wrote about this historical process in the medical studies. I'll have to look it up, if there's interest for it).

I agree that there is genetic/hormonal behavioral differientation - but it isn't dimorphic in the sense that there is typical male and typical female behaviour that is routed in male and female brain structures. In the end, what is male and what is female? Where begins the one, where does it end and vice versa? To me it's an fluid continuum - nothing that we could put into a black/white scheme. Like I said - body does matter, but what we do with it and which meanings we give these functions - this is a deep, complex process of enculturation. What is believed to be typical male in our society is a sign of typical femaleness in another culture. So, where's the line?

[AngryGothChick]

People getting killed bugs me. Especially if the person is transgendered or gay. After the Brendan Teena thing, I got really angry. Not to mention now many times I screamed and cursed after I seen a video that GayGod posted,about gay murderers being the highest since 1999.

Bigots these days.

[alphanubilus]

The problem, again folks, is a lifestyle is a choice (at least in the USA). People choose to have sex. Choose to get married, and so on and so forth. Various cultures have different views on what is morally acceptable and what is not.

In the modern world we view things like Polygamy, Incest, and Beastiality in disdain, but there are places in the world, where these actions aren't taboo. And in some places, they are even motivated to commit these actions, because to that culture it is fine and acceptable. In poorer countries incest, for example, is practiced to keep wealth in a particular family. Obviously there are horrible ramiphications due to the abuse, but there ya go. I remember such things happening in smaller villages in Mexico. It is sad and unfortunate, as the children are the ones who suffer.

Polygamy, as praticed in countries like Saudi Arabia, devolves the value of women to nothing more than possessions, and they are treated as thus. You've seen the vids from the Polygomist cults, the ladies have no will of their own. They are nothing more than cattle for the twisted sexual desires of their husband. Most of us here view this as unacceptable.

Beastiality...other than being just gross, forces an animal without any say in the matter, to participate in sexual intercourse. Just a few years ago, there was a movie called "Zoo" of which tried to show beastiality as a normal and misunderstood practice. (It is based on a true story of a guy who died while getting...well... no need for graphic images)... Would it be fair to allow such practices?

YET... people raise holy hell because somebody disagrees with homosexuality? I've seen the scientific arguements for or against it, and to be honest I've always felt that the "proof" is largely based on the bias of the scientist, as I've seen both argue for or against it. Is it genetic? Or is it created by social upbringing. There are a number of factors that come into to play...

Getting back on track to my original arguement...

I think days like, "National Transgender Day of Remembrance" is a bad idea. Yes it is unfortunate that a person was killed solely because of the lifestyle they lived, but trying to FORCE people to accept it as a normal or should be acceptable, is wrong. People have a right to agree or disagree about lifestyles, just as we agree or disagree about religions. People that are willing to murder somebody just because of such a dispute are bad eggs to begin with. However, these are the same types of folks, who murder women, because they hate women and so on and so forth. We don't need special "awareness" for a group of people.

The reality is 90% of the populous whether they are pro or con the matter, despite their difference still treat other human beings with respect, as I do. It doesn't mean I agree, but it does mean that I can have a civil arguement and still be pleasant. The other 10% it ain't gonna matter what you say, or what awareness you bring up, they are hate them regardless.

[Aki]

I think days like, "National Transgender Day of Remembrance" is a bad idea. Yes it is unfortunate that a person was killed solely because of the lifestyle they lived, but trying to FORCE people to accept it as a normal or should be acceptable, is wrong. People have a right to agree or disagree about lifestyles, just as we agree or disagree about religions. People that are willing to murder somebody just because of such a dispute are bad eggs to begin with. However, these are the same types of folks, who murder women, because they hate women and so on and so forth. We don't need special "awareness" for a group of people.

It's not forcing you to accept it - just giving an acknowledgement to what's happening. People do need an awareness of what crimes are committed and why. If people know they can't just pass it off as whining or such - there's real discrimination, hate crimes, happening here.

[sugarpoultry]

It's not forcing you to accept it - just giving an acknowledgement to what's happening. People do need an awareness of what crimes are committed and why. If people know they can't just pass it off as whining or such - there's real discrimination, hate crimes, happening here.

Then there should be a national "abortion victim remembrance day" honoring those unborn children whose lives were taken without choice.

[Aki]

It's not forcing you to accept it - just giving an acknowledgement to what's happening. People do need an awareness of what crimes are committed and why. If people know they can't just pass it off as whining or such - there's real discrimination, hate crimes, happening here.

Then there should be a national "abortion victim remembrance day" honoring those unborn children whose lives were taken without choice.

An abortion isn't a hate crime, however. It's an entirely different issue.

It's also an ambiguous one, as one has to define where a pile of cells ends and a human life begins. There is zero ambiguity in a fully developed human killing another fully developed human simply because that person behaves or believes in a certain way.

[RedEye]

I.M.H.O....
Transgendered people are people, no more no less. Any society that professes "equality" while bashing or murdering transgendered people is at the very least hypocritical.
We confuse reproductive gender with mental gender; and these are two very different things.
Reproductive gender is biological; and there are people who are either blessed (?) or cursed (?) with both sets of plumbing or have none at all. Most people are either male or female biologically.
Then there is mental gender; a whole different thing as opposed to reproductive gender. Mental Gender is usually expressed in the basic and virtually automatic response to stimuli in the environment that are expressed by individuals without regard to their physical gender.
Thus; a biological Male may give responses that are mentally Female and, a biological Female may give responses that are mentally Male in response to given stimuli in their environment.
So...damn...what?


They are still People. Aren't they?

[Gevaudan]

This is probably a bad time to find some dark humor in this, but what if our society becomes so tolerant of other lifestyle choices that people will get murdered for the most trivial of reasons, just because some people want to feel superior to others?

"Hey, that guy doesn't put jelly on his toast like the rest of us! GET HIM!"

[Set]

...A lot of blather that has nothing to do with this topic, blah blah...

Forgive me for being blunt, but...

Who put a bug up your a**?

You must absolutely -love- Veteran's Day. Are you going to b**** about that too?

If you hate remembrance days of any sort, then WHAT THE FLYING f*** ARE YOU DOING ON THIS TOPIC?

[PariahPoet]

Personally, I think that a transgender awareness day would be more useful than a remembrance day. That makes it sound like these people were more important than all the other people who have been murdered. Personally I think murder is murder no matter who the victim is.

I think it would actually help if people who are transgendered could be more open about who they are. It's like how online in a general discussion board you are usually flamed for being furry, but all the people I know in real life know that I am a fur and are fine with it. It's because once people see it in real life it isn't so alien or threatening to them anymore.

As far as addressing a transgendered person. I will call them by what they feel they are. I have a very good friend who is transgendered(some of the older Pack members probably know who). I met this friend as a female, but a couple years later "she" confided that that body was wrong. So now I call him he and treat him as a male. There are all sorts of reasons why the brain's gender does not match the body's sex such as genetic makeup and hormone balance, but I believe that the mind/soul makes the person, not the body. As a therian I know how frustrating and at times heartbreaking it can be to live trapped in a body that is entirely wrong, so I guess I have more sympathy than some.

Spiritual matters are quite personal, and everyone has a right to what they believe, but there is a way to handle it with grace. Just because you disagree with someone's sexuality doesn't mean you have to treat them badly. They are still a person and as such deserve the respect and dignity you give everyone else. If you use your spiritual beliefs to make people feel like crap that just makes you a jerk.

[Lukas]

While i can understand the concern over viewing one group over another as being biased supported, you have to take the time to breath and realize that there are many biased and messed up opinions and views in this world. There is no possible way (according to current data) that humanity can ever be Un-biased and perfectly fair to everyone. We can certainly try of course but it is like the Norse gods fighting the Evil gods; in the end the chances of victory of very unlikely. As far as i care i don't see the big deal about being so GENDER SPECIFIC. To me a person is a person and i treat them as such. If i care to go further into social relationship with them whether it be through close friendships, romantic stuff, or anything of that sort then I will bother with being gender conscious. anyone else is free to do and think what they want.

[sugarpoultry]

They are still People. Aren't they?

Yeah, they are just people. Why should they get special treatment if they are just people? They haven't done anything more or special to contribute to society. And people die all the time, why are they so privileged? Where's the national, "Non-gender confused remembered day" XD

[Aki]

Personally, I think that a transgender awareness day would be more useful than a remembrance day.

I could agree with this idea. Awareness is more effective than remembrance. Ignorance is, after all, why these things happen.

They are still People. Aren't they?

Yeah, they are just people. Why should they get special treatment if they are just people? They haven't done anything more or special to contribute to society. And people die all the time, why are they so privileged? Where's the national, "Non-gender confused remembered day" XD

1. What special treatment? This is an awareness thing for an issue. It's no different than, say "Breast Cancer awareness" or such.

2. There's a Transgender Day of Remembrance and not a "non-gender confused remebered day" because these people were murdered specifically because they were transgendered. It's because it's a specific issue. It'd be no different if it was something like "Gun Violence Remembrance Day" or such.

But hey, if you really feel there should be a "Non-gender confused remembered day" you can always go make it, like these people did. This wasn't handed to them - they stood up, spread word of mouth and made it into a reality.