Situation Report??

The place for anything at all...
Post Reply
User avatar
Kaebora
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:51 pm
Custom Title: Werehare In Disguise
Gender: Male
Mood: RAR!
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Situation Report??

Post by Kaebora »

Hi. Kaebora here. Not sure how many of you current regulars know me or remember me... but I used to be an avid visitor and later Administrator to these forums.

I have come back to ask what state the pack is in, and to see who is still around. Are things improving, or dieing? Are there issues that haven't been worked out, or need fixing? How much have things changed during most of this year that I've been gone?
Lurking softly, reading your posts, loving your ideas...
-Kaebora
User avatar
Morkulv
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 3185
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:31 am
Custom Title: Panzer Division Morkulv
Gender: Male
Mood: RAR!
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Morkulv »

The only thing that I can think of that bugged me over the last period on this forum are the obvious trolls / kids that pretend to be werewolves, other then that things are going smoothly in my opinion.
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
Spongy
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 829
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:04 pm
Gender: Male
Mood: Indifferent
Location: The Moon

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Spongy »

This is just screaming, "pay attention to me!"
Image
User avatar
PariahPoet
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2865
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:05 pm
Custom Title: The one and only were-jaguarundi!
Gender: Female
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by PariahPoet »

Meh, to me it seems to be flickering out. There's just not that much left to discuss
Image
User avatar
Berserker
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:11 pm
Gender: Male
Location: GA

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Berserker »

We should delete or archive all threads older than 2008.

People are discouraged from starting threads because the topics have been "talked about enough," but by whom? All those Freeborn-inspired dinosaur topics from years ago are filled with posts from people who are no longer active. The Pack is a different population now; new people join, and old posters drop off the face of the earth; opinions change over time, etc.

The forum needs a facelift. Instead of hanging on to hundreds of 3-4-year-old werewolf threads that no one searches for or reads through, we should just start fresh.
Image
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Terastas »

The forum has slowed down, but I wouldn't say it's dying. The only people that ever complain that the forum is "dying" or "not what it used to be," or worse, announced their departure over it were the Ennuis that never really ever contributed anything useful to the discussions in the first place.

And yes, we still do get the occasional "p-shifter" that thinks they are so clever they can fool us into thinking they are the real deal. I don't think we're attracting more than usual, although some of the more recent cases were more persistent about it.
Berserker wrote:We should delete or archive all threads older than 2008.

People are discouraged from starting threads because the topics have been "talked about enough," but by whom? All those Freeborn-inspired dinosaur topics from years ago are filled with posts from people who are no longer active. The Pack is a different population now; new people join, and old posters drop off the face of the earth; opinions change over time, etc.

The forum needs a facelift. Instead of hanging on to hundreds of 3-4-year-old werewolf threads that no one searches for or reads through, we should just start fresh.
Just because their posts were written a while ago does not make their comments any less valid. We usually refer to those threads with the intent of having newcomers go back, read them and add to them if applicable, not just because we consider the discussion off limits.

Besides, even if the posts aren't on record, we still remember them. Nobody wants to plow through the same discussion over and over again because there's no record of the previous argument -- that's how Howlers and Swarms come into being.
User avatar
Berserker
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:11 pm
Gender: Male
Location: GA

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Berserker »

Just because their posts were written a while ago does not make their comments any less valid. We usually refer to those threads with the intent of having newcomers go back, read them and add to them if applicable, not just because we consider the discussion off limits.

Besides, even if the posts aren't on record, we still remember them. Nobody wants to plow through the same discussion over and over again because there's no record of the previous argument -- that's how Howlers and Swarms come into being.

I'm not saying old posts are invalid. I'm saying the way we're handling them is dragging us down. This site is a forum, not a wiki index, but for some bizarre reason, people here desperately want to treat it like a wiki index, and that just doesn't work. We're not set up that way.

Who digs through pages and pages of vague search results to find some topic from 2006 just to voice their opinion on it? No one. It's just too much of a pain in the butt, there's no convenient index for access to this information, and even if an ancient thread does get bumped, the poster still risks running into the tiresome "why are we still talking about this" response.

I visit a ton of different forums on a regular basis, and this is the only one I know where a thread from 2005, buried deep somewhere in the bowels of the forum, unstickied and inaccessible without using an ineffective search feature, is still referenced. In fact, I'm willing to bet that 9 out of 10 active posters here actually have no idea what exactly we've discussed before, where it can be found, and whether or not the information they want to add is fresh.

I'm not saying to open up the floodgates for spam. I'm just suggesting one of many potential ways to shake up the forum and make it fresh. Otherwise it'll just continue to toddle along at a stagnant pace.
Image
Sevena

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Sevena »

Berserker has a point.when i first got here i did read ALOT of the older posts , but that does not mean that everyone does.a lot of werewolf topics are really old and could use a new perspective from the newer members.i have seen posts that ask "how many times has this been discussed" , because a handful of old members are still active and know how many times it has been discussed.new members might not be aware of it though,because the topic is 3 years old.then when a reply is made to such a topic the poster is basically told they are reviving old threads in a way that discourages them from doing it again.
User avatar
PariahPoet
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2865
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:05 pm
Custom Title: The one and only were-jaguarundi!
Gender: Female
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by PariahPoet »

I get tired of seeing the same old nonsense over and over.
It's especially bad in the entertainment section, there will be 5 threads one right after the other about the same show. I can forgive a second movie thread if the first one is not readily visible under the recent posts of that heading. But when you open up the Movies section and can immediately see a thread for that show, don't post it again. That's just lazy and rude.

If a newbie wants to discuss what kind of sounds there should be when a werewolf shifts, fine, they are welcome to do so, but there is no need to clutter the board with a new thread when one already exists. Nothing wrong with necro-posting.
Image
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Terastas »

So. . . Help me out here: Is your argument that we need to delete all of our old threads just so we can recreate them? Is the Pack really so dull that we're now discussing reworking the system so we can talk just for the sake of talking?

I'm sorry if the Pack is not that exciting anymore, but I frankly would rather have a slow-moving forum than one kept alive by a bunch of repeats. Maybe you don't want to check the older threads, and maybe some newbie that is impatient or looking to boost his post count won't either, but for every repeat thread I've seen, someone has always sooner or later responded simply by posting the link.

Speaking personally, I find linking to my old arguments to be a lot easier than completely rehashing them. If this was a forum where 9/10 people were talking out of their arses and never had anything useful to say, I wouldn't mind all the repeats as they'd suffice to bury the stupidity. But with the exception of the occasional "what would happen if we destroyed the moon?" thread, I think we've actually done very well.

So please, no talking just for the sake of talking. I'd like to think the Pack serves a greater purpose than just to keep people entertained, and even so: we've got forums other than "What should a werewolf be?" where you can talk just for the sake of talking anyway. If you're really so bored with the current pace of the Pack, try the "board games" forum instead. :grinp:
Chris
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:00 am

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Chris »

Terastas wrote:Maybe you don't want to check the older threads, and maybe some newbie that is impatient or looking to boost his post count won't either, but for every repeat thread I've seen, someone has always sooner or later responded simply by posting the link.
Personally, I'd rather there be repeats(*) for a few different reasons. When a thread gets 10 or 20+ pages long, not many people are going to bother reading it all and either not bother with the thread at all, or skip more than half the posts and end up repeating something anyway. And when it gets to 30 or 40+ pages where half the posts are repeats of other posts, it'll further discourage people from actually reading the thread. Last thing we really need is a lot of "TL;DR".

Additionally, by encouraging use of old threads where a lot of ideas have already been thrown in, it'll discourage people to participate if there happens to be a post that's close enough to what they think, even if it may be sufficiently different for some people who would still like to read what the person has to say. Not only that, but people's opinions do change, so someone's post from an old previous thread may not reflect their current thoughts anymore.

(*) Of course, I do expect some reasonable restrictions. If there are threads that are only a few days (or even months) apart and only span a few pages.. no, they don't need to be separate. But for threads that were last used over a year ago that spans 10 to 20 pages, or more.. I don't think it's quite fair to make new people read through all of it, either to necropost or not bother posting at all. Linking to the old post from the new one, for posterity's sake, sure. But not as a means to discourage people from discussing it anew.
User avatar
Scott Gardener
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:36 pm
Gender: Male
Mood: Excited
Location: Rockwall, Texas (and beyond infinity)
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Scott Gardener »

I tend to pop in about once a week or so. Glad to see you here again.

Some familiar faces are still here. Figarou is eternal. Others have gone by the way-side, and still others are far more intermittent than I am. Freeborn remains in stasis.

But it's no longer the only movie project around here, as we've got plenty of other creative projects also in stasis, including at least two other movies and some book manuscripts. Heck, I've even got one sitting around, waiting.

Meanwhile, werewolves are starting to trickle into mainstream consciousness.
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
Set
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:34 pm
Custom Title: Devil in disguise
Gender: Male

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Set »

Berserker wrote:We should delete or archive all threads older than 2008.
To delete, or not to delete. That is the question.

I say prune the damn things. I've been around quite a lot of internet forums and honestly, I find it downright bizarre to keep holding onto threads that old. We have a policy towards necroposting unlike anywhere else and it's a bit confusing, even for an old dinosaur like me who should be used to it by now.
User avatar
Morkulv
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 3185
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:31 am
Custom Title: Panzer Division Morkulv
Gender: Male
Mood: RAR!
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Morkulv »

Haha necroposting.
Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Terastas »

Set wrote:
Berserker wrote:We should delete or archive all threads older than 2008.
To delete, or not to delete. That is the question.

I say prune the damn things. I've been around quite a lot of internet forums and honestly, I find it downright bizarre to keep holding onto threads that old. We have a policy towards necroposting unlike anywhere else and it's a bit confusing, even for an old dinosaur like me who should be used to it by now.
Just to be clear, "necroposting" is when people bring otherwise dead topics back to the first page for no apparent reason whatsoever. The Pack, on the other hand, encouraged the use of "dusty" topics because, at the time, there were not many of them and we were trying to avoid reliving tired old arguments, especially ones that had resulted in flame wars (and which could be counted on to do so in the future). We still only have eleven pages of topics in our "WSAWB?" forum -- for a board that's been active for five years and counting, that's pretty good.

Though I would not be opposed to a "pruning" of the topics, as in spite of the Pack having a policy against repeat topics, people did post them anyway.

Here are some threads I would not be opposed to the deletion of:

1) Repeat Topics. If a topic only has a couple of responses in it, one of which is a "link here," then I think it would be fair to clean it up.

I know opinions change, but I don't see what shame there is in having it on the record that opinions have changed. I myself originally came to the Pack with a very different take on werewolves, and if you actually cared enough to look at my posts here at the Pack from oldest to most recent, you can see how my opinion changed overtime.

So I wouldn't delete repeats with actual substance to them. Just the repeat topics that were posted because a newcomer didn't care to look / wanted more posts, were left for dead upon arrival because it was a rehash, and are now essentially just adding more filler to the WSAWB? forum.

2) Filler Topics. You know, like the aforementioned "what would happen if you destroyed the moon?" topic. It's basically another newbie post count scheme -- a thread that is so ridiculous it's hard to justify. Threads discussing the size of a female werewolf's boobs I would also file away in this category. The only thing those threads are really good for now is a cheap laugh, so maybe those can get cleaned up too.

3) "My views" threads. Again, these are usually threads started by newbies, typically ones that were both too lazy to even look at the current active discussions (much less the relevant "archives" threads), and also had no real interest in an actual active discussion and really just intended to spew out their own (often emo-therian rooted) opinions and have them be parroted back to them.

And even those few that did wind up evolving into structured debates are never used as future references because they still have that thoughtless "my views" or "some questions" label. The thread where we made the unanimous decision that werewolves should have tails, for example, is called "Pure and Simple." This one and a few others might benefit from a title change, but most of them are just emo-therian crap that only makes it a little harder to find the older threads you're looking for.

What I'm saying is that, if we do clean up the WSAWB? forum, we should do it the same way we would our storage spaces at home -- by sorting through what we want to keep and what can be thrown out instead of just dumping out the entire thing without even looking at it. I know it'll be a hassle, but so will trying to justify the opinions we have when we don't have anything to show for how we came to them. We already have the occasional n00b or werewolf wannabe coming here and immediately whining that we aren't respectful or open-minded to others' opinions -- we'll get even more of that if we don't have anything with which to back ourselves up. :P
Last edited by Terastas on Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:00 am

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Chris »

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying old threads should be deleted. I much prefer archival so people can look back and see how things were and how they've changed (or not changed). However, I just don't like the idea of making new people (or old people that want to discuss again) go through and bump a 20+ page thread that hasn't had a new post in more than a year because they want to talk about something similar to what had been brought up years before.
User avatar
PariahPoet
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2865
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:05 pm
Custom Title: The one and only were-jaguarundi!
Gender: Female
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by PariahPoet »

The reason most of us old timers refer to the original threads is because every newbie has pretty much the same things to say. I get sick to death of every new puppy creating 20 new topics to tell how they think the transformation should go. Keep it in one place so those of us who could not be less interested can skip it.
Image
Set
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:34 pm
Custom Title: Devil in disguise
Gender: Male

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Set »

You all do realize none of you have to read anything, right?

At any rate, the What Should A Werewolf Be section was repetitive and not worth rereading years ago. I'm surprised any of the older members even bother looking at it. It serves absolutely no purpose if no one's posting in it.
User avatar
Gevaudan
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:39 pm
Custom Title: Music Lover
Gender: Male
Additional Details: Find me under my new username @RhyeRhythm on Twitter, Telegram, FurAffinity, Weasyl, and Furry Network!
Mood: Happy
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Contact:

Re: Situation Report??

Post by Gevaudan »

I think the title of the section "What should a werewolf be?" is itself imposing. It implies that no other opinions about werewolves will be tolerated except those decided by the majority rule of The Pack ages ago. It's a bit close-minded to say what a werewolf "should" be. We can all agree on some things, but we can't agree on everything. Not to say that we should have more newbies posting useless "What if?" threads, but maybe more open discussion is necessary to get The Pack out of this "slump" (if we're in one). I'd be willing to see new debates about old topics; opinions may have changed since then.
And everything under the sun is in tune, but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

Find me under my new username @RhyeRhythm on Twitter, Telegram, FurAffinity, Weasyl, and Furry Network!
Post Reply