Werewolf marathon!

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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:I wouldn't call Dog Soldiers a werewolf-movie for the same reason that I wouldn't call Van Hellsing a vampire/werewolf-movie. Just because they have those particular monsters, doesn't mean that the focuss is on them.

Calling Van Helsing a vampire/werewolf movie would be totally appropriate since that's who the stars were. By your line of reasoning, The Howling isn't really a werewolf movie because the focus was on a traumatized newswoman who goes to camp. AWIL isn't a werewolf movie either, but rather one that's about the incredibly bad luck of a back country hiker.



As for the Chiller ch, I finally got it. The first werewolf movie I saw on it was The Howling II. Are you kidding me?!?! :o The acting in this movie was so God-awful it took the term "bad movie" to a whole new level. :lol:
I wouldn't call The Howling a werewolf-movie, but a crap-movie.

AWIL is very much a werewolf-movie. It focusses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, and his transformation into a werewolf.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by PariahPoet »

Morkulv wrote: I wouldn't call The Howling a werewolf-movie, but a crap-movie.
Something we can agree on! Image
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Yay! :lol:
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Morkulv wrote:AWIL is very much a werewolf-movie. It focusses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, and his transformation into a werewolf.
But yet, you don't consider Van Helsing a werewolf/vampire movie even though it focuses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, becomes a werewolf, and then fights Dracula??? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :roll:

As for The Howling not being a werewolf movie, I'd bet the majority of this board would say otherwise.
Last edited by Alpha on Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Wingman »

Alpha wrote: But yet, you don't consider Van Helsing a werewolf/vampire movie even though it focuses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, becomes a werewolf, and then fights Dracula??? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :roll:
I have to agree with Morkulv, though possibly not for the same reason, Van Helsing at it's core is a movie about the struggle of humanity versus the supernatural. As far as the little goblin that is my memory tells me, it doesn't explore the why or how of either werewolves or vampires. Van Helsing does turn into a werewolf for a short while, but the movie doesn't focus on that. Moreover, Van Helsing as a concept doesn't include being a werewolf, he is at his core a human who uses his knowledge of the supernatural to protect humanity.
I might be mistaken in my memory of the film, it's been years since I saw the entire thing.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Alpha »

Wingman wrote: I have to agree with Morkulv, though possibly not for the same reason, Van Helsing at it's core is a movie about the struggle of humanity versus the supernatural. As far as the little goblin that is my memory tells me, it doesn't explore the why or how of either werewolves or vampires. Van Helsing does turn into a werewolf for a short while, but the movie doesn't focus on that. Moreover, Van Helsing as a concept doesn't include being a werewolf, he is at his core a human who uses his knowledge of the supernatural to protect humanity.
I might be mistaken in my memory of the film, it's been years since I saw the entire thing.

I'm not talking about the philosophical aspect of the movie, I'm referring to the upfront images that are going to stick in the minds of most people who see the film. Hero/werewolf - main villain/ a vampire, hence a werewolf/vampire movie.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:AWIL is very much a werewolf-movie. It focusses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, and his transformation into a werewolf.
But yet, you don't consider Van Helsing a werewolf/vampire movie even though it focuses on a character that gets bitten by a werewolf, becomes a werewolf, and then fights Dracula??? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :roll:

As for The Howling not being a werewolf movie, I'd bet the majority of this board would say otherwise.
You just answered your own question. Van Hellsing is focussed on the main-character's fight against Dracula, not on him being a werewolf.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Morkulv wrote:You just answered your own question. Van Hellsing is focussed on the main-character's fight against Dracula, not on him being a werewolf.

Huh? Where did you hear me say that his fight with Dracula was the 'SOLE' focus? You did notice the part where I mentioned that in addition to that, he was bitten by a werewolf and became one himself, right?
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:You just answered your own question. Van Hellsing is focussed on the main-character's fight against Dracula, not on him being a werewolf.

Huh? Where did you hear me say that his fight with Dracula was the 'SOLE' focus? You did notice the part where I mentioned that in addition to that, he was bitten by a werewolf and became one himself, right?
Yes, but that is not the main interest in the story.

Its really easy:
A movie with a gay person in it is not a gay film.
A movie with Santa Clause in it does not have to be a christmassmovie.
A movie with a werewolf in it does not have to be a werewolf-movie.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Alpha »

Morkulv wrote: Yes, but that is not the main interest in the story.
Yeah, I know. It was one of several.
Morkulv wrote:Its really easy:
A movie with a gay person in it is not a gay film.
Well, that really depends, doesn't it? Is said gay person's orientation somehow integral to the story? What's their role in the film? Is it major or minor etc.

Morkulv wrote:A movie with Santa Clause in it does not have to be a christmassmovie.
Examples please.
Morkulv wrote:A movie with a werewolf in it does not have to be a werewolf-movie.
See 2nd response above.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:A movie with Santa Clause in it does not have to be a christmassmovie.
Examples please.
Die Hard.

As for movies with werewolves, Van Helsing and Dog Soldiers are the best examples I can think of of movies that include werewolves but don't resolve around them.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Morkulv wrote:Die Hard.
:lol: Really? This is the best example you could give? If anything, you've just reinforced what I've been saying all along. Of course no one is going to call Die Hard a Christmas movie. It had some no name actor dressed up as a Santa in a brief company party scene at the beginning. It didn't even have anything to do with the star (Bruce Willis). It was an insignificant moment. Once it was over no one even gave it a second thought.

With VH however, becoming a werewolf did happened to one of the stars (Hugh Jackman). He along with the other two weres had a lot of screen time. So therefore, the werewolves are going to be one of the groups that people associate with the movie when they hear the title.


Morkulv wrote:As for movies with werewolves, Van Helsing and Dog Soldiers are the best examples I can think of of movies that include werewolves but don't resolve around them.
WRONG! Both Van Helsing and Dog Soldiers are considered to be werewolf movies for the reasons listed above. Well, werewolf/vampire in VH's case.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:Die Hard.
:lol: Really? This is the best example you could give? If anything, you've just reinforced what I've been saying all along. Of course no one is going to call Die Hard a Christmas movie. It had some no name actor dressed up as a Santa in a brief company party scene at the beginning. It didn't even have anything to do with the star (Bruce Willis). It was an insignificant moment. Once it was over no one even gave it a second thought.

With VH however, becoming a werewolf did happened to one of the stars (Hugh Jackman). He along with the other two weres had a lot of screen time. So therefore, the werewolves are going to be one of the groups that people associate with the movie when they hear the title.


Morkulv wrote:As for movies with werewolves, Van Helsing and Dog Soldiers are the best examples I can think of of movies that include werewolves but don't resolve around them.
WRONG! Both Van Helsing and Dog Soldiers are considered to be werewolf movies for the reasons listed above. Well, werewolf/vampire in VH's case.
I don't see you coming with any counterarguments as to why Die Hard IS consided a christmass-movie, so you are not disproving anything. Did you even SEE Die Hard? It has a very clear christmass-theme all the way through because it takes place on the christmass-season. Ofcourse its not a christmass-movie, because the film is not focussed on that, thus stating what I have been trying to get through to you all along that you don't have to feature certain theme's to make it a genremovie.

Your last sentence is also very lacking of arguments. "WRONG!" is not an argument, and if you think it is true then you need to back it up. Either do that, or I will quit this silly discussion.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Alpha »

Morkulv wrote:I don't see you coming with any counterarguments as to why Die Hard IS consided a christmass-movie, so you are not disproving anything. Did you even SEE Die Hard? It has a very clear christmass-theme all the way through because it takes place on the christmass-season. Ofcourse its not a christmass-movie, because the film is not focussed on that, thus stating what I have been trying to get through to you all along that you don't have to feature certain theme's to make it a genremovie.

I've responded to everything you've been saying with valid counterpoints. Your failure to recognize that either because of pride or ignorance is your problem. Your example of Die Hard is a poor one. You were trying to compare it to Van Helsing by saying that just because something appears in a movie, it doesn't make it that kind of a movie. A brief appearance by an unknown in a Santa suit 'IS NOT' same thing as a major character developement of one of the stars.

Morkulv wrote:Your last sentence is also very lacking of arguments. "WRONG!" is not an argument, and if you think it is true then you need to back it up. Either do that, or I will quit this silly discussion.
"Wrong" is merely me summoning up my opinion in one word...since you obviously don't understand it when someone tries to give you a lengthier explanation. Oh please don't quit now! This thread is just starting to get fun. :D
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Alpha wrote:A brief appearance by an unknown in a Santa suit 'IS NOT' same thing as a major character developement of one of the stars.
I wouldn't say Van Helsing's lycanthropy is "major character development" (kind hard to find any character development in that movie, actually :P). It was actually rather trite, having no real significance to the story and was just an excuse to have a CGI werewolf fight a CGI Dracula, as cool as that may be. Compare that with David Kessler's lycanthropy, which was the entire basis of AWIL's story.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Alpha wrote:
Morkulv wrote:I don't see you coming with any counterarguments as to why Die Hard IS consided a christmass-movie, so you are not disproving anything. Did you even SEE Die Hard? It has a very clear christmass-theme all the way through because it takes place on the christmass-season. Ofcourse its not a christmass-movie, because the film is not focussed on that, thus stating what I have been trying to get through to you all along that you don't have to feature certain theme's to make it a genremovie.

I've responded to everything you've been saying with valid counterpoints. Your failure to recognize that either because of pride or ignorance is your problem. Your example of Die Hard is a poor one. You were trying to compare it to Van Helsing by saying that just because something appears in a movie, it doesn't make it that kind of a movie. A brief appearance by an unknown in a Santa suit 'IS NOT' same thing as a major character developement of one of the stars.

Morkulv wrote:Your last sentence is also very lacking of arguments. "WRONG!" is not an argument, and if you think it is true then you need to back it up. Either do that, or I will quit this silly discussion.
"Wrong" is merely me summoning up my opinion in one word...since you obviously don't understand it when someone tries to give you a lengthier explanation. Oh please don't quit now! This thread is just starting to get fun. :D
Now I'm starting to wonder if you've even seen the damn movie at all...

Pride? What pride do I need to point out to you that a movie doesn't have to contain certain themes to be a genre-movie? ?? Your not making much sense at all. Ignorance? Maybe you didn't notice, but I'm not the only one in this topic that is trying to make this point you know? Maybe you should pay some more attention to what is posted.

What kind of 'character development' did you see in Van Hellsing when it comes to the guy being a werewolf? He even transformed only ONCE at the end of the movie, how can you call that characterdevelopment?? Please explain this to me, and don't start with your "he's a werewolf so therefore it has to be a werewolfmovie"-bullcrap again. Post some valid arguments for a change.

Saying "wrong" maybe your opinion, but it is a very childish one, and it destroys any means for me to make a reply since I don't feel like having a discussion with a child.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Alpha »

Morkulv wrote:Now I'm starting to wonder if you've even seen the damn movie at all...
Yep! Sure did.

Morkulv wrote:Pride? What pride do I need to point out to you that a movie doesn't have to contain certain themes to be a genre-movie? ??
That's why I said "either pride or ignorance". Either you get what I'm saying but you don't want to admit to it, or what I'm saying is totally going over your head. So, which is it with you?


Morkulv wrote:Your not making much sense at all.
The feeling is mutual.

Morkulv wrote:Ignorance? Maybe you didn't notice, but I'm not the only one in this topic that is trying to make this point you know?
Yeah, so? I can say the same thing. I'm not the only one here who disagrees with you on what qualifies as a werewolf movie.

Morkulv wrote:Maybe you should pay some more attention to what is posted.
Maybe you should take some of your own advice. When I explained why I didn't think that Die Hard was a Christmas movie, your response was " I don't see you coming with any counterarguments as to why Die Hard 'IS' a Christmas movie".:? Huh? I'm saying that I 'DON'T' think that Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Why would I say that and then come back and contradict myself by arguing otherwise?

Morkulv wrote:What kind of 'character development' did you see in Van Hellsing when it comes to the guy being a werewolf?
Him becoming a werewolf is the 'character development'. What part of that was difficult for you to understand?
Morkulv wrote: He even transformed only ONCE at the end of the movie, how can you call that characterdevelopment?? Please explain this to me
The amount of times it has happened is irrelevant. The bottom line is that it 'DID' happened. I can call it "character development" because V.Helsing is a 'character' in the movie. And since he didn't start off as a werewolf but became one later on, that qualifies as the 'development' part. Now do you get it?

Morkulv wrote:and don't start with your "he's a werewolf so therefore it has to be a werewolfmovie"-bullcrap again.
Is it bull crap because you don't agree with it? If so, doesn't that mean that everything you've been spouting so far qualifies as a big heaping steaming pile of the stuff?

Morkulv wrote:Post some valid arguments for a change.
I've been doing nothing but that. But like I've said before, your failure to recognize it (either because of pride or ignorance) is 'YOUR' problem.

Morkulv wrote:Saying "wrong" maybe your opinion, but it is a very childish one
You just don't get it do you? I've already told you why I chose to use that word.

Morkulv wrote:and it destroys any means for me to make a reply since I don't feel like having a discussion with a child.
So basically, unless I give you a long winded reply you're going to refuse to debate with me? Boo hoo! It seems to me that you're the one that's acting like a child.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Damn you are stubborn, and you are pretty arrogant as well.. Maybe its "going over my head" because your posts make zero sense, and instead of trying to get my point of view you chose to repeat yourself for eternity? :roll:

I'm not going to explain myself again, because its clear to me now that your not reading my posts very well. If you call the werewolves in Van Helsing character development, then lets just say you have not seen alot of movies. Plus, the ammount of times a character transforms IS relevant in a werewolf movie because it shows where the focus of the story lies. Van Helsing is NOT a werewolf movie, nor a vampire movie. It just happens to be a movie with monsters, including werewolves and vampires.
Last edited by Morkulv on Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Alpha wrote:The amount of times it has happened is irrelevant. The bottom line is that it 'DID' happened. I can call it "character development" because V.Helsing is a 'character' in the movie. And since he didn't start off as a werewolf but became one later on, that qualifies as the 'development' part.
That's a bit pedantic, I think, and a rather shallow interpretation of 'character development'. Van Helsing, as a character, didn't change much due to getting lycanthropy. He growled a bit more and became furry when he fought Dracula, but it didn't really have any significant or lasting effects on the character. Similar to how Santa showing up in Die Hard didn't have a significant or lasting effect on the movie's story or plot.

Compare with Uncle Ted from Bad Moon, who started out as a world-exploring boyfriend when he got attacked, then he became somewhat of a hermit. When he got in touch with his sister, he was rather calm and hoped his family bond would put his lycanthropy into remission. But as the movie went on, his lycanthropy caused him to become more aggitated and aggressive over Thor's dominance, and that resulted in the family bond breaking apart and the attack on his family.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Alpha »

Morkulv wrote:Damn you are stubborn, and you are a arrogant little prick as well...


And you're just a little sh*thead who's getting upset because I don't agree with you.

Morkulv wrote:Maybe its "going over my head" because your posts make zero sense,
Or maybe it's going over your head because you lack the IQ to comprehend simple things.
Morkulv wrote:and instead of trying to get my point of view you chose to repeat yourself for eternity? :roll:
And this would be different from you, how?

Morkulv wrote:I'm not going to explain myself again

Yeah, what would be the point? You're just talking in circles.
Morkulv wrote:because its clear to me now that your not reading my posts very well.
And this is coming from someone who wanted me to make an argument as to why I thought that Die Hard was a Christmas movie, even though I had made it clear in my post that I 'DIDN'T' think it was one. :roll:
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Morkulv »

Scott Gardener wrote: I'd be afraid to shift if I were to lose control. If I just looked fuggly, I'd simply be annoyed every full moon.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Haha, oh so now its not a simple matter of opinion anymore, but you think I'm mentally ill just because I have a different view on movie-genre's? Thats pathetic. I really don't feel like debating this anymore when you throw around such childish statements. I can sort of forgive you for being really arrogant and calling people out on something thats mostly just a matter of opinion, but this is crossing the line in rediculousness.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

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Morkulv wrote:Haha, oh so now its not a simple matter of opinion anymore, but you think I'm mentally ill just because I have a different view on movie-genre's? Thats pathetic.
Haha, the fact that you don't know the difference between mental illness and mental impairment, just confirms that theory about you
Morkulv wrote:I really don't feel like debating this anymore when you throw around such childish statements.
Why the sensitivity? Could it be that this observation hits a little too close to home?
Morkulv wrote:I can sort of forgive you for being really arrogant and calling people out on something thats mostly just a matter of opinion, but this is crossing the line in rediculousness.
Gee, your forgiveness means so much to me. :roll: I also love it when you describe me as being arrogant, especially when you're such a prime example of that yourself.
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Re: Werewolf marathon!

Post by Shadow Wulf »

Aki wrote:
Morkulv wrote:
Sebiale wrote:
Morkulv wrote:I mean that most 'real' werewolf-movies focuss on the werewolf-character(s) and the change that they go through as the movie progresses. Instead, Dog Soldiers seems to be more focussed on action and B-movie style horror.
Which was a good thing for it. Dog Soldiers is better than a lot of other werewolf movies released in recent years.
Only ones that really spring to mind in recent times that can beat it are the Ginger Snaps trilogy and Wolfman.
Thats why I think that Dog Soldiers is not a werewolf-movie, because Dog Soldiers is a movie that features werewolves, and werewolf-movies are about werewolves.

Small difference.
Frankly I think that's a silly way to think about it. By that logic 30 Days of Night isn't a vampire movie because it's focused on the people trying to survive them, and all zombie movies are really just disaster films that happen to feature zombies.

Hell, by that logic you'd only get a real zombie film by making Stubbs: The Zombie into a movie. :P

I don't see why Dog Soldiers should be a 'film that features werewolves' simply because it has them as an external threat to the characters rather than as one of focused-on characters. A film that 'features werewolves' would have to treat them the way Blade treated zombies (tossed one in here because: hey, why not? And then promptly forgot about it).
^This. Best response I have seen on this thread. :lol: I guess Scream isn't a slasher flick either. But really everyone has their own preference. Who am I to argue.
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