Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ABrownrigg »

How about this.

Lets look at it this way as we're all intelligent people.

Lets say today, a werewolf showed up at each of our houses and bit us.

Now we're all werewolves,

Would we still be having this conversation? would we each see things differently? depending on what we all already know? or feel is right?

Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?

Would discussions like this occur as they are now?
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Scott Gardener »

If a werewolf just popped up at the door, bit me, and then just as inexplicably wandered off, I wouldn't post about it on the Internet. I would, however, try to find out which of you was responsible.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Berserker »

ABrownrigg wrote:
Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?
If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying to find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
Last edited by Berserker on Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by outwarddoodles »

Berserker wrote:
ABrownrigg wrote:
Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?
If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying and find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
You bring up an excellent point.

In fact, if you really get down to the basics of it, wolves and humans have the exact same instinct that we share with every other living creature -- to survive. I don't see how wolves happen to have a stronger desire to survive than humans do. When it comes to keeping yourself safe, eating, acquiring a reliable food source, socializing as a means of protection, etc humans and wolves see eye to eye.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Scott Gardener »

Bingo. Berserker hit upon a great point.

Our culture loves to categorize ideas, compartmentalizing things into "this" and "that." Nature isn't interested in genres. She does not sit down and decide, "this organism will be a predator, carnivorous and nocturnal," or "this creature is a parasite, so I'll make it a worm." Things just happen, and that which works keeps going, while those that don't get phased out. The end result is an ecosystem that we try to study, categorize, and make assumptions about.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Shadow Wulf »

Berserker wrote:
ABrownrigg wrote:
Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?
If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying and find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
Wow this is probably the best answer I have seen in this entire discussion. I haven't added anything to the topic as it's not my field of expertise but after reading everyone's answer I like the point you bring up. Well done sir.

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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Seriously. If things were so categorized then there wouldn't be duck-eating deer in the world.

:read2: :meat:

However, there are differences in both species behavior patterns. How they deal with different kinds of threats, for example. How do they deal with acquisition of resources? What sorts of things are beneficial to their needs?

Humans gave up their senses' acuity for a larger brain. Wolves are smart and have complex behaviors, a language, and the ability to socialize... but they can't write a novel or program a computer. Yet, for this lack of higher abstract intelligence they have a more powerful body and keener senses. Things like smell, subtle body language, vocalizations on a different auditory ranges, etc carry /more/ meaning for them.

Maybe the "hybrid" has a sensory capability in between wolves and humans. Think how this would stir the repressed/dormant human instincts. How would any of us react to such "super human" abilities? Would some of us become more attuned with our instincts and "go feral"? Would we fight for continued "control"? It's a lot like saying the "good or evil" is up to the individual who is bitten. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective or willpower for the individual?
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

:idea: Think of this scenario - suddenly a newly changed realizes they can actually /understand/ the family dog!
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Leonca~ »

I often like to think of things in terms of how werewolves would be more likely to go undetected, as my favorite stories take place on modern times and familiar settings. For this, I imagine a werewolf with a more human mindset would make sense. Animal instincts would be present but not overwhelming. I kind of like viewing it as a superpower, with most of the changes being to the body rather than the mind. Maybe not the most balanced blend, but there are still enough conflicts to make for some interesting storytelling.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Trinity wrote: Think of this scenario - suddenly a newly changed realizes they can actually /understand/ the family dog!
Actually, I can understand my dog just fine -- He's got me very well trained.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ABrownrigg »

If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying to find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
Exactly. But when you're first bitten, that 'seemless mesh' couldnt possibly be so seemless at first. our human minds would have an 'adjustment' period to saying 'hmm.. why do I feel this way about this or that, i didnt feel that way about it yesterday.. maybe its the wolf.. " if it changes your behavior at 'all' you would know it.. unless the bite also made you too simple minded to realize it. Hence why in this film,.. YOUNG werewolves.. i.e. recently bitten would still have a difficulty 'coming to terms' with the 'alterations' of their natures. if there are any at all'

There mere fact that we're all here discussing it now gives an excellent example as to how each of us have our own individual views, and takes on our versions of what 'reality' would be. Hence it goes right back to what I think makes freeborn strong.. its a 'character' driven drama. No blanket 'werewolves are this way or that way'.. it depends on the person. Their 'pre bitten' beliefs, intelligence, and desires. And how long it take for that 'seemless mesh' to occur.

much like the shifting itself over time becomes muscle memory more than a traumatic event i my opinion.

I do also like the comment about the basic instincts being the same. It's true.. almost everything we do, dream of, innovate or talk about has to do with three basics.. comfort, food, sex. we're animals lets face it.. money falls into power or comfort... sex covers just about everything else.. and food? well.. im hungry.

now ONE distinction is art to me. The 'divine spark' as many call it.. that drives us as humans to want to 'create' art. I find that facinating, and will explore that more.

AB
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Grayheart »

Berserker wrote:If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying to find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
Very well put, Berserker - Especially the last remark! - I didn't expect otherwise from you, though :D

Personally I also think the 'seamless mesh' situation would only apply to born and old (experienced) bitten werewolves. Freshly bitten ones would have a hard time adapting to their new situation - and successfully coping with this change would crucially depend on ones ability to update ones own self-image. That's hard stuff - many people will freak out by the thought alone to loose a finger or having another one's heart after surgery.
ABrownrigg wrote:much like the shifting itself over time becomes muscle memory more than a traumatic event i my opinion.
Its not only about muscle memory - its about an updated representation of your body in your brain. This needs a considerably amount of time to come into existence (we're talking about living, growing matter here). This relationship needs to be balanced all the way through your life and if something changes your body it makes you at least feel uncomfortable in the beginning - or it crushes your whole 'self-system' and you'll develop serious personality disorders. An example for a minor irritation of a given self-system can easily be seen in people who just got tattooed - even if they wanted the tattoo very honestly to be made there will be inexorably a phase when one is pretty alienated by the sight of this new look of ones skin, seeing it as something that isn't part of oneself - I know what I'm talking about, I've experienced this twice (curiously this feeling of alienation only set in after my skin had already healed).

Now, this was to me a minor feeling of alienation that I could fight back easily, because I WANTED to get these tattoos - now imagine a person who is bitten by a werewolf and has to suffer through the transformation! This would wreck havoc on every personality in the first place - and I seriously think it needs a very strong and stable mind to withstand this. It crushes the very base of your self-consciousness - which is your living body, being your anchor to your very existence. This updating process needs time, strong mental capacities - and most will also need help in the form of counseling by others who went through the same process. And even then it isn't guaranteed that you will be successful at this.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Uniform Two Six wrote:
Trinity wrote: Think of this scenario - suddenly a newly changed realizes they can actually /understand/ the family dog!
Actually, I can understand my dog just fine -- He's got me very well trained.
:D

*grins*

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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

ABrownrigg wrote:
I do also like the comment about the basic instincts being the same. It's true.. almost everything we do, dream of, innovate or talk about has to do with three basics.. comfort, food, sex. we're animals lets face it.. money falls into power or comfort... sex covers just about everything else.. and food? well.. im hungry.

now ONE distinction is art to me. The 'divine spark' as many call it.. that drives us as humans to want to 'create' art. I find that facinating, and will explore that more.

AB
AH! A favorite topic of mine! ;)

Now, this is my take on it. Take it or leave it as one will, I won't mind. ;) *grins* Just don't "take out", as it looses it's flavor over time. Okay pun done, onto the real meat of the topic.

A bit of background on this thought process. I've always had this issue with the "better then thou" ideal so many people tote around. I've been raised to believe that no one is any better then anyone else. We just have different strengths and weaknesses. There will always be artists "better then me" and rather then mope about it I could learn from it. Same with that there will always be artists "less experienced then me" so why crow about it and strut around being high-and mighty about it? Why not help teach?

Then I see this same attitude, how humans are some how superior to all other life forms on this planet... and something got stuck in my craw, so to speak.

I was reading the bible about the various sins in life and something struck me as utterly fascinating. All the "sins" can be attached to basic instincts wrapped up really neatly into a moral quandary. HUMANS created this moral problem because we are 1) highly social and 2) have the ability to think //outside of ourselves// in a way /most/ (not all) other animals cannot or do not. Most animals are instinctively "selfish". Or for those that are highly social, group-selectively "selfish".

It all boils down to the great "gene race".

You must breed to pass on your genes. You must survive in order to breed. You must take care of your specific needs in order to survive.

Humans are thinking animals, yes. But we are /also/ abstract thinking animals. What sets us apart from other creatures is the /combined ability/ to 1)rationalize, 2) conceptualize, 3) not only ask about but /care/ about "why". We recognize /ourselves/ in a mirror. Can creatively problem solve.

Dolphins and Gorillas (and some other highly social apes and monkies) show the /same/ intelligence in these two categories. However, at this time of understanding, only we humans have the capacity to /care/ and make choices based on that.

Most instincts are the same, sans a few points here or there.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Figarou »

ABrownrigg wrote:
If it were my interpretation, there would be no "wolf inside." The problem I see here is that it's tough to wrap our heads around the idea of "werewolf behavior." We want to categorize things as either human behavior or wolf behavior, trying to find a line of segregation, where we can say, "this is where wolf instincts have taken over." I believe it would be a seamless mesh. The question wouldn't be, "how am I more like a wolf," but rather, "how am I different?"
Exactly. But when you're first bitten, that 'seemless mesh' couldnt possibly be so seemless at first. our human minds would have an 'adjustment' period to saying 'hmm.. why do I feel this way about this or that, i didnt feel that way about it yesterday.. maybe its the wolf.. " if it changes your behavior at 'all' you would know it.. unless the bite also made you too simple minded to realize it. Hence why in this film,.. YOUNG werewolves.. i.e. recently bitten would still have a difficulty 'coming to terms' with the 'alterations' of their natures. if there are any at all'

There mere fact that we're all here discussing it now gives an excellent example as to how each of us have our own individual views, and takes on our versions of what 'reality' would be. Hence it goes right back to what I think makes freeborn strong.. its a 'character' driven drama. No blanket 'werewolves are this way or that way'.. it depends on the person. Their 'pre bitten' beliefs, intelligence, and desires. And how long it take for that 'seemless mesh' to occur.

much like the shifting itself over time becomes muscle memory more than a traumatic event i my opinion.

I do also like the comment about the basic instincts being the same. It's true.. almost everything we do, dream of, innovate or talk about has to do with three basics.. comfort, food, sex. we're animals lets face it.. money falls into power or comfort... sex covers just about everything else.. and food? well.. im hungry.

now ONE distinction is art to me. The 'divine spark' as many call it.. that drives us as humans to want to 'create' art. I find that facinating, and will explore that more.

AB
Ok...you have one that's bitten by a werewolf. Right then and there he knows change is coming.

But what about one that was born a werewolf and has no clue that he is one? Will he be able to explain what is going on within himself? Is "am I a monster" be racing in his mind?
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Figarou wrote:
Ok...you have one that's bitten by a werewolf. Right then and there he knows change is coming.

But what about one that was born a werewolf and has no clue that he is one? Will he be able to explain what is going on within himself? Is "am I a monster" be racing in his mind?

Depends on how s/he is raised I would suspect. Nature + Nurture. If the child was, we'll say adopted, and a by-birth werewolf. Talk about a coming of age story that could end very tragically! Yet, if they were raised by werewolf parents, the outcome might be different. If a by-birth werewolf was raised knowing who they are, and that they need to keep it under wraps, they might not have as many issues. Then again it also depends on the nature of the individual too. It's one thing, for example, to deal with gender-identity issues. Can you imagine having to deal with species-identity issues? Whew!
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Figarou »

ABrownrigg wrote:How about this.

Lets look at it this way as we're all intelligent people.

Lets say today, a werewolf showed up at each of our houses and bit us.

Now we're all werewolves,


Would we still be having this conversation? would we each see things differently? depending on what we all already know? or feel is right?

Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?

Would discussions like this occur as they are now?
Is being a werewolf a special ability? Something we have to deal with once bitten?

Ok, let's say the entire human species are now werewolves. Will we see each other differently? Probably the same way we see each other differently now.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ABrownrigg »

I love this board. :)
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Figarou »

Think of it. We have instincts. But humans have one thing that no animal on this planet has. Beliefs.

What you believe in can affect behavior. It can also affect those around you. That's where all the differences comes in.

As for instincts, we share a few with our animal friends. Here is an example. Why do we feel more sleepy this time of year? Did humans hibernate at one time? Has anyone tried sleeping the entire winter? So, if the human in the werewolf has dominance over the wolf, what will his behavior be like compared to a werewolf with the wolf side having dominance?

Edit.

The way I see it, the human side can the ferocious beast. Since when wolves kill for sport? Human feelings can get out of hand at times.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Actually you've hit on something one of my professors in college told us about (this was for a class about marketing).

Memes (NOT me-mes, meems like the word gene) are a form of thought "genetics". Like genes they "procreate". I have a thought. I think it's awesome to share, so I do. That thought gets lodged into one or more individual's minds (seeding it). Some of them like it enough to share (successive 'generation')... Etc.

Our society as a whole is built on these "memes". Beliefs are a form of meme passed on from parent to child, from their parents, and both shape as well are shaped by their overall community. Like a river that is restrained by the land, yet cuts through and erodes it at the same time.

But unlike physical genes (until recently), memes can be changed through the course of human mental/emotional development. If what we learn from our families does not fit with the community we live within, we get conflict. No on really likes conflict, it's not good for survival. So we try to adapt - which changes us mentally/emotionally to fit in better socially with out community. However, this can drop us out of sync with our natal family units.

Ex. We teach our kids to be accepting and not judge. My son is a bit of a "Brony". My step-daughter gets all agitated because she had learned from her /peers/ that girls things are for girls and boy things are for boys (community peerage conflict). She is so tied into being accepted by her peers that her family values then mean nothing in comparison. So it embarrasses her that he likes MLP, even though NONE of her friends know about his likes (internal conflict). She tries to socially correct him to think the same way by refusing him access to her MLP VHS tapes and dvds (trying to resolve conflict). I happen to hear her say "they are for girls" and pretty much run her up one side and down the other (family conflict).

Ex. A very dominant individual gains the admiration/fear/respect of their peers. What they like, dislike, and "allow" becomes very important to the group. This shapes the community, as over time these ideas become part of the community belief. Laws develop based on these beliefs. A family comes into the land with a different set of beliefs, but do not have the strength of character or personality to uphold their different beliefs. They conform or are outcast. However, if they have this inner strength they can withstand the outside pressure and begin to influence the community they now live within.

Not everyone is wired to be an individual or "leader". Many are followers, and are wired to follow what the rest of the group decides. You can see this in /all/ aspects of life.

Religion
Politics
Big Business Practices
Small Town Communities
Online and offline social groups
etc
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

*breaking up the post*
*returning the idea back on topic*

So humans build beliefs around what their needs are for survival. Since we have a higher intelligence to think outside of ourselves, to ponder things on abstract and esoteric levels, we question our existence. The "why?" in our lives.

We have a need for resources, so as to provide for ourselves, so as to prepare for the next generation, so as to pass on our genetic material. To do this we sculpt a community around our ideals, appropriate behaviors, and what's right vs wrong. These are all memes that get passed on. We are one of a small few creatures in this world that can "mentally procreate".

> So again, if a werewolf by-birth is raised by werewolf parents within a werewolf community, they'd have different coping tactics and thus have a different reaction to their first change.

> Where as a werewolf by-birth who does not have that community/parental support would not have those coping tactics and thus would have a different reaction to their first change.

> Then there is the adult-human bitten (assuming that first change happens at puberty for by-birth werewolves) also has different coping mechanisms then a child or teen might have, and thus /their/ reaction would be different then the other two.

> Social sub-group affiliations also come into effect, as socially they give different coping tactics.

For humans raw genetics and pure instincts are only part of the equation. How we cope with those instincts versus what our community expects of us shape who we become as a person. See the 7 deadly sins. This is instinct vs socially accepted behavior at work.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Figarou »

Trinity wrote:
Memes (NOT me-mes, meems like the word gene) are a form of thought "genetics". Like genes they "procreate". I have a thought. I think it's awesome to share, so I do. That thought gets lodged into one or more individual's minds (seeding it). Some of them like it enough to share (successive 'generation')... Etc.

Oh...thank you THANK YOU for provided that info!! *looks up Memes*
A meme ( /ˈmiːm/[1]) is "an idea, behavior or style that spreads from person to person within a culture."[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols or practices, which can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals or other imitable phenomena. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate and respond to selective pressures
Interesting!! I'm seeing this behavior all the time. I had no idea they gave it a name.

Thanks again!! :D
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

:read2: I just thought-procreated inside your head. MUHAHAHAHA! ;) You're welcome.
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Figarou
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Figarou »

Trinity wrote::read2: I just thought-procreated inside your head. MUHAHAHAHA! ;) You're welcome.

There are times where I wish I went to college. But I have to rely on the internet for my knowledge.

Edit. Changed really to rely.
Last edited by Figarou on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trinity
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Figarou wrote:

There are times where I wish I went to college. But I have to really on the internet for my knowledge.
With how much information is out there to learn, it's not a bad thing. There are plenty of people willing to share what they know. Heck look at what we managed to do here with The Pack! If it weren't for the internet, how successful would this have been?

ACK, tangent. :)
:wolfpaint:
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