Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Grayheart »

Trinity wrote:Actually you've hit on something one of my professors in college told us about (this was for a class about marketing).

Memes (NOT me-mes, meems like the word gene) are a form of thought "genetics". Like genes they "procreate"
Hm, well, its neither the genes not the memes that procreate - its the organisms/minds that hold them. Maybe this sounds like nitpicking, but this whole gene-meme equation is full of conceptual problems - something that even Richard Dawkins who initially coined the term lucidly acknowledged. If you put it like memes are something with an life of its own this leads people to assume they are a kind of unresistable force leading an own life and steering your life without you being able to intervene (which is what quite a few evolutionary scientists actually do).
Trinity wrote:But unlike physical genes (until recently), memes can be changed through the course of human mental/emotional development.
What do you mean with 'until recently'? Memes are constantly changing - and even genes can change (mutate to use evolutionists jargon). True, genes doesn't change easily as it wouldn't be very adaptive if genes could be as easily changed than cultural traditions - a term which I prefer over 'meme', because I personally think this gene-analogy is a misleading one in the whole run.
Trinity wrote:For humans raw genetics and pure instincts are only part of the equation. How we cope with those instincts versus what our community expects of us shape who we become as a person.
Very true - our capacities not only rest on our genes and the therein specified instincts, but also on the ontogenetically created configuration and modeling/reshaping by extensive cognitive indoctrination which is heavily influenced by the surrounding culture (enculturation as its called) - and has a very real effect on the very functioning of our brain, resulting in a literally rewiring of it.
Trinity wrote:
Figarou wrote:There are times where I wish I went to college. But I have to rely on the internet for my knowledge.
With how much information is out there to learn, it's not a bad thing. There are plenty of people willing to share what they know. Heck look at what we managed to do here with The Pack! If it weren't for the internet, how successful would this have been?
Indeed, there are so much more resources than the internet and its never too late to improve your own 'Bildung'. If you want to know more about the evolutionary contingencies of human behavior I highly recommend to you 'Darwin Machines and the Nature of Knowledge' by Henry Plotkin. Its a very well written and lucid book - to me it was a real revelation. And heck, I could recommend (and send) to you tons of good articles about human evolution and related fields. Maybe we could even create some time in the future a kind of 'science/education'-section on the boards where packmembers can share their thoughts on exactly these kinds of things and improve each others knowlegde thus step by step. I think there would be a high potential for this here.

Well, anyways ... back to topic: Individual behavior of any living creature is really all about developmental factors - be it phylogenetically, ontogenetically or culturally influenced ones. Like Trinity so nicely put it with her very good 'case studies' - in the end you will always have to look very closely at the given behavior under scrutiny and, yeah - treat it like a profiler would do. 8)
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Grayheart wrote:
Hm, well, its neither the genes not the memes that procreate - its the organisms/minds that hold them. Maybe this sounds like nitpicking, but this whole gene-meme equation is full of conceptual problems - something that even Richard Dawkins who initially coined the term lucidly acknowledged. If you put it like memes are something with an life of its own this leads people to assume they are a kind of unresistable force leading an own life and steering your life without you being able to intervene (which is what quite a few evolutionary scientists actually do).
Perspective? I think? As i understand it, Memes are self replicating. I share something and it has replicated in /your mind/, regardless if you agree, disagree, or share it for yourself, it now resides in two minds. Yours and mine, where before I shared it, it only resided in mine. If I were to make a side reference that no one else would "get" because I didn't share that meme with them, you would because of that meme you received is now a point of reference.

At least that how I see it. :)
Grayheart wrote:
Trinity wrote:But unlike physical genes (until recently), memes can be changed through the course of human mental/emotional development.
What do you mean with 'until recently'? Memes are constantly changing - and even genes can change (mutate to use evolutionists jargon). True, genes doesn't change easily as it wouldn't be very adaptive if genes could be as easily changed than cultural traditions - a term which I prefer over 'meme', because I personally think this gene-analogy is a misleading one in the whole run.
Ya know. I do so often write faster then my brain can keep up with. Re-reading that I now see where the confusion comes in. I meant how genes could not be changed AFTER they were set, until recent technological developments in medical science. Ex. After I was born, my eye color isn't going to change from say blue to orange at random. In utero yes gene can mutate, but not after. GOSH is that sentence badly worded. URGH. sorry!

:(
Grayheart wrote:
Trinity wrote:For humans raw genetics and pure instincts are only part of the equation. How we cope with those instincts versus what our community expects of us shape who we become as a person.
Very true - our capacities not only rest on our genes and the therein specified instincts, but also on the ontogenetically created configuration and modeling/reshaping by extensive cognitive indoctrination which is heavily influenced by the surrounding culture (enculturation as its called) - and has a very real effect on the very functioning of our brain, resulting in a literally rewiring of it.
Hot diggity, my vocabulary just expanded. Seriously. Thank you! :D
Grayheart wrote:
Trinity wrote:
Figarou wrote:There are times where I wish I went to college. But I have to rely on the internet for my knowledge.
With how much information is out there to learn, it's not a bad thing. There are plenty of people willing to share what they know. Heck look at what we managed to do here with The Pack! If it weren't for the internet, how successful would this have been?
Indeed, there are so much more resources than the internet and its never too late to improve your own 'Bildung'. If you want to know more about the evolutionary contingencies of human behavior I highly recommend to you 'Darwin Machines and the Nature of Knowledge' by Henry Plotkin. Its a very well written and lucid book - to me it was a real revelation. And heck, I could recommend (and send) to you tons of good articles about human evolution and related fields. Maybe we could even create some time in the future a kind of 'science/education'-section on the boards where packmembers can share their thoughts on exactly these kinds of things and improve each others knowlegde thus step by step. I think there would be a high potential for this here.
Education for it's own sake is always a good thing in my book. :)
Grayheart wrote:Well, anyways ... back to topic: Individual behavior of any living creature is really all about developmental factors - be it phylogenetically, ontogenetically or culturally influenced ones. Like Trinity so nicely put it with her very good 'case studies' - in the end you will always have to look very closely at the given behavior under scrutiny and, yeah - treat it like a profiler would do. 8)
8)
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Grayheart »

Trinity wrote:As i understand it, Memes are self replicating. I share something and it has replicated in /your mind/, regardless if you agree, disagree, or share it for yourself, it now resides in two minds. Yours and mine, where before I shared it, it only resided in mine.
And therein lies the conceptual problem I mentioned above - its indeed how memes are conceptualized nowadays (there sprung up a whole scientific discipline called 'memetics'). But consider this: By what mechanism does the idea you call meme in your mind come into my mind? Humans aren't telepathical beings - well, as far as I know, might be wrong on this, who knows ?? - and so there can be NO literal copying of your meme in my head - just an approximation. Whereas with genes the therein coded information IS literally copied. This is where the analogy fails and one has to tread carefully when making assumptions about the nature of cultural change - many people doing 'memetics' think memes use us humans as carriers for their own schemes (this often sounds like memes are parasitic entities *shudder*)
Trinity wrote:
Grayheart wrote:
Trinity wrote:But unlike physical genes (until recently), memes can be changed through the course of human mental/emotional development.

What do you mean with 'until recently'? Memes are constantly changing - and even genes can change (mutate to use evolutionists jargon). True, genes doesn't change easily as it wouldn't be very adaptive if genes could be as easily changed than cultural traditions - a term which I prefer over 'meme', because I personally think this gene-analogy is a misleading one in the whole run.

Ya know. I do so often write faster then my brain can keep up with. Re-reading that I now see where the confusion comes in. I meant how genes could not be changed AFTER they were set, until recent technological developments in medical science. Ex. After I was born, my eye color isn't going to change from say blue to orange at random. In utero yes gene can mutate, but not after. GOSH is that sentence badly worded. URGH. sorry!

:(
Ah, now I got it! I thought you meant that memes couldn't be changed until recently - well, yes, that makes much more sense - so, sorry from me for my tired, lazy mind!

And to make up for this I tell you some more nice words: The time between conception and reproduction of genes is called Generational Deadtime. The longer this time is, the harder it is for a given species to react timely and adequately to a changing environment. To resolve this problem there arised two main solutions in evolutionary time: Keep Generational Deadtime as small as possible (think of the short reproduction cycles of insects and the like) - or: develop a means to acquire adaptive behaviors that aren't specified in your genes. In other words: Being able to make up for genetic shortcomings through the ability to learn by being an intelligent creature - adding a reshaping device for your hard-wired instincts.
Trinity wrote:Hot diggity, my vocabulary just expanded. Seriously. Thank you! :D
:oops: You're welcome
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

ABrownrigg wrote:How about this.

Lets look at it this way as we're all intelligent people.

Lets say today, a werewolf showed up at each of our houses and bit us.

Now we're all werewolves,

Would we still be having this conversation? would we each see things differently? depending on what we all already know? or feel is right?

Or would be all become slaves to the wolf inside?

Would discussions like this occur as they are now?

It would seem like being bitten and the prospect and fear of the transformation would cause a great deal of stress and panic.
I think i would be absolutely terrified by the implications of being a werewolf.
I would imagine i might go through the stages of lose, similar to the stages of mourning, after all my life would be changed
forever. I would have to have to completely redefine myself. I could see a change in emotions and responses to situations being heightened by the changes occurring in my physiology and psychology. i think every emotion would be heightened and i would probably undergo many mood swings. Maybe in the beginning there would be shell shock or denial?

one of the main question would be, does the wolf bite come with traits of its own or does werewolfism only awaken the feral, animalistic nature within the depths of our human nature?

if the bite only awakens something within then the nature of the person would greatly effect the responses to any given situation. i think my baser natures would rule my behavior. I would fear that the darker aspects of my personality would be unleashed, at least during the beginning.
I am pretty controlled, i try very hard to be pleasant and kind but i used to have a terrible temper and have worked very hard to be a better person. If in the depths of my nature were pushed to the surface, i think maintaining a sense of calm might be all but impossible. If working on my character flaws takes such an effort as just a human, i think adding the awaking of a feral nature might make me a scary person to be around, that is if or until i could manage this added obstacle.

The emotional turmoil and fear of the transformation would probably cause me to isolate myself from the people i love for fear of hurting them. I would be desperate for answers and probably try to seek out my attacker for answers or possibly revenge. I would probably equate contracting this condition to a complete existential crisis. How hard would it be to fight the magnifications of our darker desires? Would i give up or would i fight for my humanity? i think i would try and find a cure. I love my life and the people in it. if the wolf wasn't inherently dark, then i would try to stay apart of the human world. I think i would try to stay as human as possible. if all emotions were magnified then i guess love would be as well. If you love deeper then you would feel and cherish it more profoundly, making the prospect of losing it more scary than the impending transformation.

an even darker question would be, what if i liked it? what if this bite would be just the excuse i needed to let go of the control?
How frightening would the prospect be of losing control and liking it? :?

i'm not sure if this scenario actually happened how i would cope with it and if i could pull myself together to have a conversation about it.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by WerewolfKeeper3 »

Hmmm... at work and can't read the whole post but...
My question is, why hasn't anyone thought of another version:
That werewolves evolved like humans did, from a "primative" being into a modern one, without the fighting between the "human" and "animal" instincts?
We still have instincts, but they're not quite so powerful, and we do have times when those instincts emerge {like being angry for instance}. I don't see why a werewolf couldn't have evolved the same way.
Also, if the werewolf evolved in such a way, wouldn't it also be likely that their ability to shift from one form to another would be made painless? Pain might help keep us alive, but if a transformation is painful, even if you're able to deal with the pain, it wouldn't necessarily aid in keeping the werewolf species alive. Rather, it'd probably help get them killed off, from hunters, predators, etc. {i don't know about you, but i pretty sure a bear could crack a werewolf skull open with one well places swipe.} And how many times would a werewolf need to shift while standing still?
Everyone has their own idea of what a werewolf should be, so, these are just my thoughts.
And yes... these are idea i'm applying to my story, so... bear with me...
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ladygrail »

Still thinking about this topic.... I wasn't sure where to post it but it could have been under what is a werewolf thread... I am not sure how to change that and leave it up to the moderators.

That being said... new ideas. With behavioralism and animal training such as what was seen with Skinner and Pavolv, could such things be applied to werewolves? In the behavioral health field, we use best practices when working with children and adults on the human side, IE using positive reinforcement, avoiding restraints (when possible), are data oriented, and individualized for the client. I will admit when I have worked with some of the most severe cases (individuals who will do serious bodily harm to themselves or others) physical restraints were sometimes needed. In most werewolf genres I had read or seen in movies this is often required as well. IE the werewolf is locked up, chained up, bound in some way etc so as not to hurt others. In my experience in the BH field this usually only escalates behaviors in humans and I assume it would do so in werewolves as well. Hell, I hate doing restraints and try everything possible to avoid doing such things. Sadly this often meant that I would get hit, head butted, bitten, scratched, etc. but even with a high pain torerance there comes a point where you have had enough. Usually I could take a lot of blows but if the kid was trying to slit their wrists or seriously stab a peer was the times I actually did restraints. Now with werewolves, the pain of the change could be a form of restraint. I believe I read a post prior about how pain that locks a person into a transformation is a weakness until it is over, but maybe a way to look at this is at either a way mother nature restrains a werewolf to buy others time to get away and/or it is a way to provoke the bloodlust and animal killing nature that makes a werewolf more of a monster. Think about it, you are trapped in horrible pain unable to move completely restrained as your body changes and the instant the pain is over, you want to lash out at someone or anything to vent your anger at being hurt and restrained. This would explain how a werewolf needs to learn to control themselves after a change so they don't do this, and why on their first full moon it is likely that a new werewolf will kill someone by accident.

But back to behavioral interventions. Picture a mentor wolf who will be teaching the new werewolf how to control the change. I have read a few of these but everything always seems to come down to meditation, breathing, and magic as to where the control comes from. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I want to see actual interventions on how people would control this, ie: anger management, devout spiritual mediation, behavioral interventions, drug interventions (Ginger Snaps tried to do this with wolfsbane) or some other method. That could be a whole thread on its own. :wink:

One idea I have seen is usually the most negative, a bigger badder werewolf turns the younger wolf into his B***ch meaning that there is alot of beatings, intimidation, coercion, violence, abuse, etc. Then either the young wolf rises up to defeat or kill his opprossor or runs off or dies in the process. Granted this is only one way to show a story arch, but being someone who hates that i was thinking it would be interesting to see something more positive.

Starting with my theory that the change is a trigger to kill because of the factors I described above, that would be what we call a setting event and an antecedent event. Setting event specifically would be it is a full moon night, thus that carries with it all the baggage and stress that tonight the person is going to change into a wolf. Humans tend to ruminate on these things stressing out, over thinking, worrying about them all day before the actual event occurs. The true (A) antecedent event would be the change from man to wolf. This would carry the pain, restraint, victimization, lack of control etc. with it that would trigger the behavioral response of the person now a wolf seeking to be aggressive and engage in (B) behaviors of hunting, killing, mauling, biting, scratching, etc. After wards the (C) consequences would be that the werewolf would have killed, infected, frightened, etc. those around them and the further consequences would be the need to be hunted down killed, etc. (In behavioral health this is called the ABC). Understanding this the older teacher wolf could help the younger wolf prepare mentally for the change and not stress out as much (dealing with setting events). There could be exercises the young wolf could do to deal with pain inoculation, certain positions, places, or exercises he could do physically or mentally to deal with pain management (this would deal with the antecedent), then there is actual interventions that could snap the person out of their rage once the change was over and the need to release was there. In some books this anger can be changed to passion (Laurrell K Hamilton uses this) that can distract the werewolf from killing. There are other things that can take over and snap a person out of their blood lust, such as being dunked in ice cold water for example. The most common fall back resort would be the teacher wolf actually physically stopping the young wolf which could go either way and does need to happen at times to prevent killing. I am sure others can think of tons of stuff like that. But the big thing would be a way the teacher wolf could work with the young would to deal with the consequences of their actions. This means helping with the guilt when the intervention fails, deal with the fall out of their guilt if someone is hurt, review what went right in the intervention and what could be improved on. This makes a great character arch as well.

That is my latest thoughts right now. Enjoy! ??
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by JoshuaMadoc »

ABrownrigg wrote:So yeah, no one's running and jumping off the walls in this one..
Really? That's kind of a shame, considering this.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

kitetsu wrote:
ABrownrigg wrote:So yeah, no one's running and jumping off the walls in this one..
Really? That's kind of a shame, considering this.
i'm actually really pleased he's not going in that direction. parkour is only entertaining when they botch the trick.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by JoshuaMadoc »

werewolf-woman wrote:parkour is only entertaining when they botch the trick.
That's pretty sadistic. And sad, knowing that less people appreciate the dynamism of fluid movement.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

That is pretty sadistic. It's up ther with watching bmx riders just for their botched tricks, or skateboarders. Or rodeo riders.

Parkor takes skill. lots of skill.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

kitetsu wrote:
werewolf-woman wrote:parkour is only entertaining when they botch the trick.
That's pretty sadistic. And sad, knowing that less people appreciate the dynamism of fluid movement.
i was only kidding, not a sadist... i think that it takes a lot of skill and coordination.. maybe i should have included a little winking wolf to convey my message as a joke? :wink:
context can really get lost in translation when communicating via forum posts.. but as a far as enjoying people doing dangerious stunts i really do love all those jackass movies and even through they botch tricks it still takes skills, which i can totally appreciate.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Eeeyup. Text being emotionless can make one seem one way when it's not. Plus the emotis are so dern cute! :wink:
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ABrownrigg »

Really? That's kind of a shame, considering this.
Then let me rephrase. No one running and jumping off walls for no particular reason.

This dog while adorable, has been trained to do this. Now if this same individual was willing to face a group of werewolves and train them to do that, then yes sure.. why not have that in the film.

I in no way am trying to deny the fluidity of movement for werewolves. Of course they're agile and able to do that kind of thing.. "if they wanted to"... But I'm not shoving that in the film for 'coolness' sake. B&C it was ao rampant it was almost comical.. they couldnt walk a straight line half the time without having to go run and jump off a side wall.. for.. no reason.

Parkour in general however I find amazing in many ways, and wonderful to watch.. its an art form in may respects, ...

....but its an artform, not a typical way of living, people TRAIN for parkour. And my hats off to em for that.

As to watching them screw up. While it might be occasionally comical, it in no way limits the utter reality that I cant do that myself and am in many ways jealous that I can't skimmy up a tree in five seconds. Specifically due to the fact I got my favorite frisbee stuck up there last year and its been sitting there ever since, laughing at me.

AB
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

ABrownrigg wrote:
Really? That's kind of a shame, considering this.
Then let me rephrase. No one running and jumping off walls for no particular reason.

This dog while adorable, has been trained to do this. Now if this same individual was willing to face a group of werewolves and train them to do that, then yes sure.. why not have that in the film.

I in no way am trying to deny the fluidity of movement for werewolves. Of course they're agile and able to do that kind of thing.. "if they wanted to"... But I'm not shoving that in the film for 'coolness' sake. B&C it was ao rampant it was almost comical.. they couldnt walk a straight line half the time without having to go run and jump off a side wall.. for.. no reason.

Parkour in general however I find amazing in many ways, and wonderful to watch.. its an art form in may respects, ...

....but its an artform, not a typical way of living, people TRAIN for parkour. And my hats off to em for that.

As to watching them screw up. While it might be occasionally comical, it in no way limits the utter reality that I cant do that myself and am in many ways jealous that I can't skimmy up a tree in five seconds. Specifically due to the fact I got my favorite frisbee stuck up there last year and its been sitting there ever since, laughing at me.

AB
i think blood and chocolate did the parkour werewolves to death. I think there is nothing wrong with werewolf agility but if your doing inhuman feats of agility and strength then the werewolves aren't doing a very good job of keeping themselves secret. Leaping buildings and walls in a single bound would look cool, but also draw attention to themselves.

If werewolves wanted to keep their condition secret then they would try to blend in with society as best a possible. If werewolves are exceptionally agile then it might be a good idea to keep those kind of skills on the down low. The contrast of a werewolf post transformation would be about lose of control but pre-transfomation, in human form, would be the need to try and constantly control ones actions and behaviors.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

Maybe make it one of the character's"things" and have the rest of them razz on him/her about it? Like "Man come one, that's been done to death." or "Will yuo stop showing off?"

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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

Trinity wrote:Maybe make it one of the character's"things" and have the rest of them razz on him/her about it? Like "Man come one, that's been done to death." or "Will yuo stop showing off?"

;)
that could be pretty funny :lol:
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Leonca~ »

if the bite only awakens something within then the nature of the person would greatly effect the responses to any given situation.
This could make for some terrifying scenarios. It could work especially well if the mechanism of action for becoming a werewolf is a curse, falling back on the horror movie or mythical ideas of it being a source of evil. Maybe each person would be dangerous, but in a different way depending on the darkest side of themselves that comes out when self control slips. I once had a dream where I became a werewolf and wanted to use it to terrorize people. I don’t even have any enemies, I just wanted to watch random people’s reactions when I attacked them.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

Leonca~ wrote:
if the bite only awakens something within then the nature of the person would greatly effect the responses to any given situation.
This could make for some terrifying scenarios. It could work especially well if the mechanism of action for becoming a werewolf is a curse, falling back on the horror movie or mythical ideas of it being a source of evil. Maybe each person would be dangerous, but in a different way depending on the darkest side of themselves that comes out when self control slips. I once had a dream where I became a werewolf and wanted to use it to terrorize people. I don’t even have any enemies, I just wanted to watch random people’s reactions when I attacked them.
Just imagine the psychological depths you could explore with this kind of supernatural curse influence on human nature. I would imagine if you someone who is a little mentally unstable being a werewolf would be very scary.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

I think in this film's pov it's a virus or retro virus, as such. There is more there that could be explored, as well. :)
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by ABrownrigg »

Actually it is a retrovirus kind of thing.. However its not explored in the script as to 'what' it is.. "it didnt really come with an instruction manual" to the werewolves themselves.

However the results still have them battling at times with their own inner natures.. their id, and their sense of right and wrong.

AB
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Scott Gardener »

A retrovirus is one that is based on RNA that reverse-transcripts into DNA. Lycanthropy is already far more complicated than any real-world virus, requiring whole chromosomes worth of information to describe being a wolf (even factoring out the 95% similarity between wolves and humans as mammals, and factoring out that a lot of DNA seems to be filler), let alone how to make shifting happen. It would pretty much have to be it's own category of thing, and it probably would be better off sticking with DNA as the main carrier of information.

"Retrovirus" is, admittedly a fun word to say. "If you have Steampunk Fever, then try Professor Gardener's Anti-Retrovirus Tonic!"
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by werewolf-woman »

ABrownrigg wrote:Actually it is a retrovirus kind of thing.. However its not explored in the script as to 'what' it is.. "it didnt really come with an instruction manual" to the werewolves themselves.

However the results still have them battling at times with their own inner natures.. their id, and their sense of right and wrong.

AB
i don't think a full explanation about the retrovirus is necessary. There is nothing wrong with leaving the mystery, not having all the information can make it seem that much more unpredictable and frightening. Fearing the uncertainty of the virus, how it will effect you on an individual basis and what you might lose due to the infection can really add to the fear and suspense. Living with the uncertainty of an incurable disease can be pretty terrifying. When confronted with that level of uncertainty it is completely probable that there would be some level of acting out and controlling ones self could be difficult, then add this awakening of the id and you have a pretty interesting character.
I love the idea of correlation between the werewolf and the id, it leave so many possibilities for conflict in the characters.

Have you ever been in a conflict situation and wanted to act out violently but you control yourself? You remember that you were taught that its wrong to act out and you push that darker side of yourself down. Controlling those baser desires could be a challenge for being just a regular old human, imagine adding werewolfism, that tapes in to those baser parts of our nature.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Uniform Two Six »

Scott Gardener wrote:A retrovirus is one that is based on RNA that reverse-transcripts into DNA. Lycanthropy is already far more complicated than any real-world virus, requiring whole chromosomes worth of information to describe being a wolf (even factoring out the 95% similarity between wolves and humans as mammals, and factoring out that a lot of DNA seems to be filler), let alone how to make shifting happen. It would pretty much have to be it's own category of thing, and it probably would be better off sticking with DNA as the main carrier of information...
At the risk of going off topic, and of talking out my @ss about medical stuff: Don't forget that a whole bunch of stuff about DNA isn't really understood at all. Supposedly, the latest hypothesi (whatever the plural of hypothesis is) are that much of the "filler" DNA that doesn't appear to code for anything, is not really "junk DNA" after all, but codes for turning on and off various other segments at various times, under various circumstances. In other words, DNA may be much more fluid and flexible than science has traditionally thought (ie: Biological entities are not static, and genetic coding accounts for this). Going back into the realm of science fiction, lycanthropy could still be genetic in nature, but utilize "junk DNA" (and perhaps only a fairly small amount for all we know) to "turn on" various dormant genes.
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Re: Wolf Behavior vs. Human Behavior Vs. Werewolf Behavior?

Post by Trinity »

To support Two-Six : Certain animal species do have significant physical changes. Again, they are generally small and often involving less "advanced" (in complexity) species like frogs and lizards, but they are still significant- going from male to female not only in physical sex but attitude as well.

This is where the plausibility of it all needs to be addressed. It doesn't have to be specifically accurate - but it does have to be some what plausible, believable, to allow most (not all just most) skeptics to be able to enjoy a period of suspended belief.
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