VT shooting

Timber-WoIf · Post by **Timber-WoIf** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:08 pm

32 dead, 29 injured. monday morning. and i thought i was havingabad day...

looks like security slowness is largely to blame...

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:41 pm

Worst School Shooting in the US now, it seems. Insane that one person can kill and injure so many people on his own.

I've heard he was noted to unload and reload the gun at a rapid pace. So when they finally ID the guy he might turn up to be something other than a student.

The problem was that the campus wasn't locked down after the first shooting, which two were murdered. It was thought to be an isolated incident. Then the guy came back and started shooting the place up no more than an hour or two later. It wasn't so much "slowness" as not thinking this could happen. More, shortsightedness I guess, than slowness.

DarkShadow · Post by **DarkShadow** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:50 pm

thats horrible

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:54 pm

Back when I was in high school, I remember struggling through bouts of anger and frustration, and it dawned on me that people with less conscience might feel the same emotions and direct it on a shooting spree. I anticipated some sort of breaking point about five to ten years down the road from then. On schedule, the Columbine shooting happened.

I also predicted that after that shooting, society would respond by making schools more militaristic, pushing for school uniforms, tight surveillance, and suppression of civil liberties. I was close; the same thing instead happened here in the U.S. instead with our overall society, not just the kids. I've been waiting for the next breaking point, but instead, I'm seeing a slow fizzling of the momentum and a gradual shift. Things that should have lead to an uproar didn't. (I was sure that Bush's flying the bin Laden family out of the country shortly after 9/11 would have lead to a scandal. Nada. At least people aren't boycotting the Dixie Chicks any more. Freedom of speech is making a comeback. For a little while, I was afraid I'd have to ask those of you in Europe about real estate listings.)

Timber-WoIf · Post by **Timber-WoIf** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:18 pm

hmm... sometimes i feel society will eventually to turn into something similar to the Empirium of Man from 40K. Somehow it seems logical.

either way, when lives on a large scale are threatened, civil liberties must be sacrificed. Honestly, the public may know what it wants, but it DOESN'T know whats good for it. you dont give candy to a baby,just because the baby starts to cry and throw a fit.

Seriously. if the government did exactly as the public wanted all the time, we'd all be broke and probibly overcome by a forgien power.

With all the new threats in todays world, both forgien and domestic, the cost of freedome is much higher.

when our nation was founded 200 years ago, there was no identity theft, terrorists with bioweapons, madmen building nukes, cracked teens with guns, drug lords, gas prices, stock market, spy satillites, airports, television, civil rights, united nations, etc.

The constitution was designed to be adapted, to change as times change.

(off topic but its late i'm tired and for some reason it popped into my head....)

Kirk Hammett · Post by **Kirk Hammett** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:25 pm

I am disgusted.

I cannot understand why somebody would do this. It is senseless murder, senseless behaviour, and unfortunately, many died.

I know it might sound naive, but I will always be confused as to what motivates an individual or group to carry out such senseless destruction.

I think we should pray or send our best wishes, or take a minute of silence.

My howl sending love to their families. I really hate to think of the parents, the children, the siblings and partners grieving right now. And of course, those unlucky people who are now dead.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:01 pm

Timber-WoIf wrote:hmm... sometimes i feel society will eventually to turn into something similar to the Empirium of Man from 40K. Somehow it seems logical.

either way, when lives on a large scale are threatened, civil liberties must be sacrificed. Honestly, the public may know what it wants, but it DOESN'T know whats good for it. you dont give candy to a baby,just because the baby starts to cry and throw a fit.

I doubt it'll turn out that way. There's always people who will fight a change as radical and ...facist as that example.

The Public may not always know what's good for it, but you can't control people. That's no democracy.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:05 am

Aki wrote:Worst School Shooting in the US now, it seems. Insane that one person can kill and injure so many people on his own.

I've heard he was noted to unload and reload the gun at a rapid pace. So when they finally ID the guy he might turn up to be something other than a student.

The problem was that the campus wasn't locked down after the first shooting, which two were murdered. It was thought to be an isolated incident. Then the guy came back and started shooting the place up no more than an hour or two later. It wasn't so much "slowness" as not thinking this could happen. More, shortsightedness I guess, than slowness.

Yeah I heard about this last night and continue hearing it over the radio this morning. The school thought they can handle it discretly, well they were shure wrong. Now the school is probably being sued for not following regulations. Its pretty much common since to lock down the whole school to prevent the maniac from getting in the class rooms.

I heard about this one kid who was in a engineering class of some sort, he jumped from the second story of the building and he was the last one to do so, I think most of hes class mates died. Most of the ones that jumped before him injured their ankle or landed on hes back, he made it out just fine with no injury forunatly.

Fullmoonstar · Post by **Fullmoonstar** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:18 am

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:20 am

Another reason not to go to college.

Doesnt anybody else think school shootings are kinda trite by now? I mean I feel bad for the families who lost people but couldnt the shooter come up with something we havent seen a million times?

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:25 am

MoonKit wrote:Another reason not to go to college.

Doesnt anybody else think school shootings are kinda trite by now? I mean I feel bad for the families who lost people but couldnt the shooter come up with something we havent seen a million times?

"33 dead, big deal, what else is on?"

I'm sorry MoonKit, but I don't think you could have responded in a more thoughtless and heartless way if you tried.

Set · Post by **Set** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:53 am

Bet I could though.

Anyway. Apparently they found the killer. He was a student. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

And really, I have to echo Z's words on this. I'd be surprised if there was a year something like this didn't happen.

KittyRose · Post by **KittyRose** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:36 am

This is such a tragedy

I hope and pray that the school will be okay, and the students as well.

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:46 am

Terastas wrote:
MoonKit wrote:Another reason not to go to college.

Doesnt anybody else think school shootings are kinda trite by now? I mean I feel bad for the families who lost people but couldnt the shooter come up with something we havent seen a million times?
"33 dead, big deal, what else is on?" I'm sorry MoonKit, but I don't think you could have responded in a more thoughtless and heartless way if you tried.

Im sorry if I offended you, Terastas but I agree. I tend to be pretty heartless from time to time. But I could have been worse. I could have said the stupid college brats deserved it (which I do not believe). Its just what I thought when I heard it. The news should be giving more coverage on the war...where more then 33 are dead.

Im just amazed that everyone is saying that this is the worst massacre in the United States ever. It surprises me that there hasnt ever been anything worse.

Fullmoonstar · Post by **Fullmoonstar** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:19 pm

Z wrote:and anybody who thinks this is the worst massacre ever has thoughtlessly forgotten september {censored} 11. but the news claim every disaster, tragedy, and death lately to be the worst to happen

jup that is damn right.....they always call the newest massacres as "the worst ones ever" ....

nachoboy · Post by **nachoboy** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:50 pm

wanna know what's crazy bout this whole thing? (well, i mean other than the whole "33 or so people got shot and died and lotsa people got injured" thing)

there was a student there who was like, THERE when the peeps was gettin shot who like hid or sumthin, right? well, he wasn't hurt or anything, and it turns out that my bro AND my pops both knew him. he gradiated from the high school i'm at now, and my dad taught one of the classes he took or sumthin, and he was in some of my bro's classes.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:53 pm

MoonKit wrote:
Terastas wrote:
MoonKit wrote:Another reason not to go to college.

Doesnt anybody else think school shootings are kinda trite by now? I mean I feel bad for the families who lost people but couldnt the shooter come up with something we havent seen a million times?
"33 dead, big deal, what else is on?" I'm sorry MoonKit, but I don't think you could have responded in a more thoughtless and heartless way if you tried.
Im sorry if I offended you, Terastas but I agree. I tend to be pretty heartless from time to time. But I could have been worse. I could have said the stupid college brats deserved it (which I do not believe). Its just what I thought when I heard it. The news should be giving more coverage on the war...where more then 33 are dead.

Im just amazed that everyone is saying that this is the worst massacre in the United States ever. It surprises me that there hasnt ever been anything worse.

Worst School shooting in the USA ever. Not worst massacre in the USA ever. The US has seen far worse massacres.

The war doesn't get much coverage because this takes precedence. These people who died weren't soldiers. Soldiers go to war knowing they must kill, and most likely will be injured or die and will certainly returned changed.

People don't wake up and go to class ready for that. They shouldn't have to. That's why it's a tragedy.

I mean, war is horrible, but at least in war you know that people are gonna die, and you're prepared for that. No one's prepared for someone to walk into their class, blow their teacher's brains over the blackboard and start killing their classmates...

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:20 pm

Well said.....Aki.

Having served the Army myself....I know whats its like to be prepared for war. But since I never been in a war....I don't know whats its like to kill someone.

Why that student decided to take other students lives before his own will be a mystery. Unless he left some type of clue behind for someone to find.

Was he getting back at those who made fun of him? Or was he trying to gain publicity in a negative way?

So...has the U.S. gained any knowledge from this? I think not. Tightened security, background checks, ETC. will not prevent the next massacre. That student was quiet. He kept to himself most of the time. Will other students be afraid of the one who is quiet? That doesn't get involved in social activities?

America will always live in constant fear. THAT will never change. But if it gets out of hand...there will NEVER be a safe place to call......."home."

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:46 pm

Yeah when September 11th came around the president was involved, now he is again..This is going to have serious lawsuits following it.What kind of excuse is" We had reason to believe the shooter was off campus.."WTF?!! How can they even sit there an say that s*** straight faced?! How can one make such an assumption without full confidence an proof fer christ sakes?! Now I gotta bring this back up..There were a told of 2 shootings the same damn.. 2 f***ing shootings..2 hours apart..First off after the first everyone show have been evacuated an some SWAT teams sent in to find this lil s***..I remember hearing about some excuse that some kids were already in transit..SO WHAT!! Block the school off with whatever the hell you can!!

There is no reason for all those people to have died that didn't need to..One simple phone call, call the news, families whatever!! Cell phones even!! Most college students have a celly.Because they did not follow correct protocall, many lives were taken..Now this is a prime example of police ignorance..I'm not getting onto all of them, but this is a true tragedy that could have spared many families from pain had they done an proceed with the correct procedures..No money, no nothing can ever repay these families back for wat they lost..Lawsuit all they want it will never heal them fully.

When I was in highschool we had a bomb threat an immedietly we got outta the place!! Fortunatlly there was no bomb, but they did what they had to. Got us out quickly an orderly..These fools didn't..They failed..

A shooting can happen anywhere sadly enough, but you would hope to be safe an sound at school..It's getting to where no place is truly safe anymore, even your own home..

Timber-WoIf · Post by **Timber-WoIf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:20 pm

VT is like a small town. every time someone gets shot, you can't just shut everything down.

the initial shooting looked like a murder. think about it. a girl, and a consuling dude were shot. looks like a domestic dispute gone bad. so authorities figured it was a murder, and figutred the guy fled, so not to get cought. i know most times when people get shot, sections of cities don't get shut down. same with that campus. a murder simply wasn't reason enough to shut the whole place down. of course, the thought of a mass shooting never even entered anybodys head. Just like nobody ever thought of a plane flying onto a tower period.

unfortinatly, the higher ups will be sucessfully sued and fired because they don't have psychic powers.

if people would step out of Walgreens every now and then.... damn idealists

**** oh and dont feel bad if you dont care much. Lots worse has happened in recent years than this. Frankly, i'm already tired of hearing all the damn idealists whinning about it.

ArcaneWerewolf · Post by **ArcaneWerewolf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:23 pm

School shootings seem to keep happening more and more, but much time, it's the same exact thing. A crazy bastard whips out a gun and goes trigger-happy, then shoots himself in the end. I just don't get what makes them think they can justify the murder of the innocent...

Why are people becoming such maniacs?

Timber-WoIf · Post by **Timber-WoIf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:42 pm

because they feel all the people in the world are selfish f*** who deserve neither pity nor mercy, and struggling to live with such pigs isn't worth the struggle. (this was pretty much my outlook on the world until recently((well, the first half anyway. came pretty close to believing the second half too)

Basicly, if you are consistantly rejected, picked on, backstabbed, and generally mistreated while growning up, you develop a hate for the world thats hard to comprehend. You veiw everyone as an enemy; either they're mean to you from the start, and if they act nice, is only to use you for whatever goals they have, then stabb you in the back.

twice when i was little, some prick turned all my friends against me. The first kid was most popular in the neighborhood. I beat him in a bicile race one day, and he spent the rest of the time in that neighborhood rallying all the kids to pick on me.

eventually i moved to a new neghborhood, and was able to make new freinds. one of my new friends happend to be one of the most popular at my new school too.
then, the second kid who betrayed me, had moved in from out of state, and was completly new our school. i was the first to befriend him. At first we got along pretty well, the he got tight with said popular kid, became popular himself, and managed to turn just about all my school peers against me. Convinced them all i was stupid and wierd. so i was pretty much friendless untill high school. And i realy only made one good friend then...

thats why i'm always so damn aloof. i still wont trust anyone... period. People have to earn both my trust and respect, otherwise i wont associate with them.. i f*** hate poeple. thats why i can totally understand what these psychos do. I considered it alot myself. hell, they could blow up...
...well, i better stop there...
its late...
and when poeple get killed like that... its a bad thing, and they shouldnta died... but i dont blame the shooter one bit... he just had a weak mind, and cracked.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 pm

How about we just show our support for the familes of these poor victims. People cut down in the prime of their lives, the best and brightest, senselessly slaughtered before they had a chance to experience what adult life had to offer. Think about just ow much these people must be hurting. What a terrible ache that must be inside each and everyone who knew or loved them.

That's my suggestion.

Timber-WoIf · Post by **Timber-WoIf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:47 pm

People die. it sucks. life sucks. i wouldn't wish such a tragidy on any family or community. but.. the whole things so pathetic. society is so pathetic..

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:04 am

Timber-WoIf wrote:VT is like a small town. every time someone gets shot, you can't just shut everything down.

As a small town that's precisely why you can shut down the campus. It's not New York or New Jersey with tons and tons of people. It's not a everyday occurance, either.

the initial shooting looked like a murder. think about it. a girl, and a consuling dude were shot. looks like a domestic dispute gone bad. so authorities figured it was a murder, and figutred the guy fled, so not to get cought. i know most times when people get shot, sections of cities don't get shut down. same with that campus. a murder simply wasn't reason enough to shut the whole place down. of course, the thought of a mass shooting never even entered anybodys head. Just like nobody ever thought of a plane flying onto a tower period.

In a school, in a learning environment something that can lead to student death should be contained quickly. This wasn't. It's not like shutting down the subway because someone got shot in a subway station.

if people would step out of Walgreens every now and then.... damn idealists

**** oh and dont feel bad if you dont care much. Lots worse has happened in recent years than this. Frankly, i'm already tired of hearing all the damn idealists whinning about it.

Going "Oh well, another (set of) murder(s)." isn't going to help anymore than "whining" about it.

A mistake was made and people paid for it with their lives. While people are not psychic there's such a thing as precaution. The lack of taking preemptive measures ended up badly.