Reclaiming masculinity from "manhood"

[PariahPoet]

Unless of course a couple ladies want to have their own daughter.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68113

Sorry guys. ^^

[RedEye]

Thinking with the forebrain, it's obvious that you need two sets of genetic instructions to make a baby, one set from the male, and one from the female.
The hindbrain isn't convinced. It doesn't connect the fifteen minutes of fun nine months ago with the child being delivered today. The hindbrain, where all the "urges" live, sees females somehow able to create life. The male might be dead by then (our hindbrains are old, old, old; remenants of our pre-"human" existence; and while crafty, really aren't that smart).
Hence, males need to "posess" females to be certain that the child is theirs, and that they (the males) will continue to live on in the tribe. That much the hindbrain understands.
You all might take a look at Desmond Morris's book "Tribes and Supertribes" for a better explanation...an Anthropologist, I ain't.

[Aki]

Cathey pointed out to me an article showing an alarming trend in "prolonged adulescence" in men--that a lot of young men delay getting their life in order beyond dorm room life, eschewing career advancement or family relationships in favor of going clubbing, playing with expensive toys, and so forth. I have no issues with materialism myself; I started off the year marathoning Ratchet and Clank on my PlayStation 3 and sorting through my Lego collection, and I'm 34. But, there's a key difference. The problem with "not having a life" arises when it involves living parasitically off of parents, or when one's well-conditioned obliviousness towards responsible mating practices causes one to screw up the lives of women through disrupted relationships, unwanted or unsupported pregnancies, and the like.

It's a stupid article if it's the one I'm thinking of. The one by Kay Hymowitz, right?

It equates getting married early and making babies with "man hood" and growing up and playing games and waiting a while to get married with being a "Child-Man". Because, y'know, marriage and child flip a switch that turns you from a child into a man.

Stupid article. She might have had a point if she meant the single men who do nothing but play games and s***, but no, she tars and feathers all the unmarried male twenty somethings who have a job to work at when they're not playing video games, shooting hoops, or clubbing.

Of course, not once does she berate a female for being unmarried in her article. That's "strong" and "independent".

*grumble*

Bet she's as old as the hills. Because it reads like a cleverly disguised "In my day..." argument old people often spout.

No offense to old folks on here. You lot are fine.

[JoshuaMadoc]

Scott, I'm barely 20, and i don't plan on being dictated by manhood, because i don't believe in growing up. Moving on from a phase, however, is something i'm inclined to believe.

[Scott Gardener]

Aki:
That wasn't the article. It was an editorial in the Dallas Morning News.

Kitetsu:
Glad you're thinking ahead. I wonder why so many people, male or female, will jump into relationships on a short term basis without thinking about how it will affect the rest of their lives. Given that most people these days don't believe in reincarnation and that a transhumanist singularity event is still an obscure notion, most people take it as a given that they only live once. And yet, people readily throw away their lives, risking deadly STDs like HIV and AIDS or decades of subserviance as parents without beforehand building up a solid financial base, just for a few nights of sex. And that is why I laugh in the face of anyone who says that humans aren't animals.

Having a kid shouldn't be a random event. One should have a plan to ensure the kid can grow up in a nurturing environment, one that allows for intellectual and artistic stimulation, and one in which a college degree is accessible. It's frustrating as an ER physician to see unplanned babies in tow, knowing that those children have the potential to grow up to be future world leaders or the ones who cure death itself, but knowing instead that because of their early indoctrination into dysfunctional mindsets of abusive fathers, mothers with no sense of self worth, and relatives on drugs or in jail, the overwhelming majority of them don't have a chance. We as a species can do better. I know the human brain can do so much more.

[Lukas]

Unless of course a couple ladies want to have their own daughter.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68113

Sorry guys. ^^

yeah to bad that cuts the genetic diversity in half

[Aki]

Aki:
That wasn't the article. It was an editorial in the Dallas Morning News.

Darn, sounded so familiar.

Oh well.

Unless of course a couple ladies want to have their own daughter.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68113

Sorry guys. ^^

yeah to bad that cuts the genetic diversity in half

It's worth noting that the original work with male cells suffered some problems

...That will likely only be a minor roadblock. Prof Nayernia has already overcome this problem with sperm cells created from male cells. In 2006, he used sperm created from embryonic stem cells to impregnate mice. The mice produced 7 pups, although one died and the other six had health problems.

(from here, which has considerably more info than Pariah's link)

Death and health problems, eek. This one needs some fixin' first...

Edit: Additional note, since women don't have Y chromosomes (right?) wouldn't this mean female sperm would only be able to make daughters, not sons?

[Avareis]

The sperm consists of the x and y chromosomes. There are very small amount of people that have plus or minus the x and y, but they have a gender identity disorder that goes into physical traits. Though I don't see it unethical because it is an artificial way of reproduction. Comeon! What the hell is artificial insemination? What I have a problem with is the fact that it might turn out that the sperm isn't up to standard on the genetic makeup of a normal human being. After all, we made it, not evolution.

I'm pretty sure that a person's genetic make up does have the blue print for a male. Also, one must consider that men don't have all the flaws. Men are the carriers for such things as genetic disorders. They can be passed onto men and women more or less.

I still honestly think men are a minority in America. We have centers for women, but not for men. And when do you actually hear that a man's rights have been violated. Face it. Men get the blame for a rape, whether it is true or not. Few actually consider the possibility that women do that to men. Also, men get the blame for genetic flaws, failure of marriages, single parents, war...What about OUR rights? No one ever questions that, just as long as the woman can have as much or more privileges than men it's just fine is the consensus.

[RedEye]

I suspect that what you're referring to is being caused by the so-called Equal-Rights people.
Women have truly been under-rated in society for many years. The remedy is to try being as gender-neutral as possible.
Pay the Job, not the Person. Promote from Competence, not "balance". Treat people the same, their gender being unimportant.

This isn't the place to discuss the Gender gap, so I won't; other than the above.
Masculinity is a state of mind. Manhood is a biological condition. They are different, very much so. Trying to make them the same is comparing apples and oranges, literally. Masculinity is a Paradigm, a set of definitions and responses, that vary from society to society. When you try to mix Masculinity with Manhood, you usually wind up with an eight-year old's set of definitions of how you deal with the Female and her Femininity. There are cultures and even religions that do this, because they don't separate the mental from the physical...and there is a World of difference between the two.
You can't use a Physical situation to define a Mental state. Ever.

[Gevaudan]

The moment I read this thread, I immediately thought of a song from a movie musical I once saw, called "Shock Treatment".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7BP2Gclzj0

This song's a parody of how "manly" you need to be in society. I think it's funny how ridiculously manly this guy is. It's almost ironic, considering this musical was made by the same guy, Richard O'Brien, who made "The Rocky Horror Show", another musical about transvestites, creepy scientists, sexuality, and B-movies.

Isn't it weird how everyone thinks "Musicals = Gay?"

[Avareis]

I'm hoping people realize what manhood means. For a while, it meant that a boy becomes a man when he loses his virginity, which is a load of horse crap and I never thought that. Manhood means, to me, that the male figure in a household stands up and does whats right for himself and the others around him. What happened to that stand of manhood.
Manhood wasn't how a boy should grow up and look like. It was how he faced certain troubles. It's becomes looks now, all show. Often the actions behind this are cowardice and stupidity. Macho crap. A man is supposed to be supportive.

But, everything that I have mentioned about what manhood really is, women have picked up. It defines adulthood and maturity. And what we have to reclaim is men's liberties that are forgotten when we go to protect women's rights. Sure, it's fine when a woman seeks power though her sex. I just don't like it when men are are on the receiving end of this, getting crap, but we just deal with it. That's what a man is now. A man stands there and deal with the crap. That's the definition of masculinity now, it seems. Never mind doing something about it.
It's almost become a cliche now. You've got the naggie wife and the man who deals with it all, but does nothing. So, not only are men at stake of losing their manhood, women are at risk of being self centered hypocrites in comparison to how men used to treat women.

[psiguy]

Here's what really makes you a man. Are you ready?

A penis and two testicles.

There. You're in the club.

O' rly?

Yay, I'm club member #2

----------------------

On a serious note. I could care less about my appearance (with a few exceptions) I'm not going to bother with my hair or what I wear. But of course, I'm not going to wear a wardrobe like Richard simmons. Or act excessively gay in front of the real life public. Thats just asking for an a** whoopin right there. I understand there are some tards that care about what the others dress and act like, so while they exist, I'll be "that guy somewhere in the crowd".

[Set]

yeah to bad that cuts the genetic diversity in half

How do you figure?

Or act excessively gay in front of the real life public.

And what exactly does "acting gay" look like?

[Shadow Wulf]

Or act excessively gay in front of the real life public.

And what exactly does "acting gay" look like?

As long as a guy doesn't play dress up, Im fine.

[psiguy]

Or act excessively gay in front of the real life public.

And what exactly does "acting gay" look like?

Nice gotcha. I guess this is part of Scott's rant about what society thinks you can and can't do just because you were born with a bat and balls between your legs. Yea, I guess stereotypes gotten to me too.

[Dreamer]

Scott, I admire your sentiment, and I do agree that it's a bad thing for men to repress their emotions and other aspects of themselves just to appear masculine. But I still think Maddox would verbally skewer you, rip out your heart, turn it into beef jerkey and eating it while fighting Chuck Norris.

[Scott Gardener]

So he can beat his chest louder. That might have worked some 10,000 years ago, when sabertooth tigers were at the ends of their lengths, but brute force is fast becoming obsolete. I'm less about dominating in a primitive world and more about getting us out of one.

[PariahPoet]

(from here, which has considerably more info than Pariah's link)

Hence the name SHORTnews. I posted that as a joke, not as an academic publication.[/quote]

Edit: Additional note, since women don't have Y chromosomes (right?) wouldn't this mean female sperm would only be able to make daughters, not sons?

.

Amazingly that sounds like exactly what I said in my original post.

[Aki]

(from here, which has considerably more info than Pariah's link)

Hence the name SHORTnews. I posted that as a joke, not as an academic publication.

[/quote]

I tend not to pay too much attention to the domain names of a URL. I go "Ooh, a link. Click!"

Edit: Additional note, since women don't have Y chromosomes (right?) wouldn't this mean female sperm would only be able to make daughters, not sons?

.

Amazingly that sounds like exactly what I said in my original post.

Perhaps, but I had not taken the time to fully consider the statement, being far to caught up in clicking on links provided and whatnot. *shrug*

[PariahPoet]

Sorry for snapping. That was stupid of me. I've just been really depressed lately, but that's certainly no excuse for being rude.

[Aki]

Sorry for snapping. That was stupid of me. I've just been really depressed lately, but that's certainly no excuse for being rude.

It's alright. It happens.

Hope you start feeling better soon.

[Dreamer]

So he can beat his chest louder. That might have worked some 10,000 years ago, when sabertooth tigers were at the ends of their lengths, but brute force is fast becoming obsolete. I'm less about dominating in a primitive world and more about getting us out of one.

Um, that statement is inaccurate, seeing as he usually fights people he hates with his own biting wit on his web page instead of beatign the crap out of them (Although he does the writing equivalent with his large amounts of swearing and hyperbole), and he's a pretty good humor writer to boot. Plus, he hates dumb jocks and is actually quite liberal (Other than on vegitarianism, which he actually has some very good points about)

[Scott Gardener]

OK, I missed the "verbally" part and misunderstood as to what kind of being Maddox represents himself. Still...

His "good points" about vegitarianism: It's not like I haven't heard it before. I'm a vegitarian. I'm sick of hearing about why you (not you, Dreamer, but you, Maddox) think I should dump my sense of ethics and join you in torturing fellow mammals with a well-defined central nervous system but that don't happen to be human.

Getting back to topic, but taking the scenic route, I see being shoved into the "manhood" role an effort to push me away from a transhumanist philosophy, which advocates defining for one's self one's own kind of existence. Be a man? If it were up to me, I'd be something else entirely--perhaps a network of thousands of consciousness nodes interlinked as a vast superorganism, with nanomolecular engineering that blurs the definitions between cybernetics and genetic engineering. But, that's just me. Some may be happier bench pressing 250 or making out with hotties with low self-esteem, but that's not for me, and I refuse to be put into the same category just because I, like fully half the human population, happen to be male.