General Announcments and Updates

[Fenrir]

well vuldari, what do you want to do with your life? Why don't you look into getting a job that requires a liscence of somesort, ie pilot, a-c, truck driver, and stuff of the sort. Those jobs don't have anything to do with smokeing (and if you get a pilot's liscence they're barred from smoking)

But, those are what I would do, I have no idea what you have in mind for what you want to do, what have you been thinking of?

[Shadow Wulf]

Fenir, do you have any idea how much skills and requirements are required to fly a plane? I dont think Vuldari would be able to unless he already knows how to fly a plane. I would just go to some other pharmacutical store for hire.

[ravaged_warrior]

So, I informed my boss today that it goes against my values and beliefs to continue to sell that poison to anyone who asks for it with a smile as I have done for over two years, and that I would do it no longer.

...and he informed me that I no longer have a job there.

What the hell? He fired you for voicing an opinion? What an asshole!

Hopefully you get a new, better job soon... And to be honest, I hope you told him off.

[Fenrir]

Fenir, do you have any idea how much skills and requirements are required to fly a plane? I dont think Vuldari would be able to unless he already knows how to fly a plane. I would just go to some other pharmacutical store for hire.

....yes actually....you need to go to pilots school for about a year...but ya he'd need a job i forgot about that

[outwarddoodles]

Vuldari, if this makes you feel any better, just because of what you did, I think you freakin' rock.

You did the right thing.

I hope you can find a new, and maybe even better, job.

[Vuldari]

So, I informed my boss today that it goes against my values and beliefs to continue to sell that poison to anyone who asks for it with a smile as I have done for over two years, and that I would do it no longer.

...and he informed me that I no longer have a job there.

What the hell? He fired you for voicing an opinion? What an asshole!

Hopefully you get a new, better job soon... And to be honest, I hope you told him off.

"Told him Off"? ...naw...that's not my style.

I was as dry and blunt as I could manage, and concluded by giving him a formal, firm handshake and saying "It's been nice working with you" before turning to walk away.

(...although, when I said goodbye to some good friends in the break-room before leaving, I ranted with them a little bit and cried. One of them even offered to try to get me a job in the actual "Pharmacy" aria of the store where they just got an opening...which would mean a lot more money...but the store manager told me he would not allow it even before I knew that was an option. After the way he grudgefully threw me out of the store, I don't think I would want to go back there anyway. He told me that I was, "...a fool...extremely unprofessional..." and that he, "...had absolutely no respect for me any more...")

To be fair, he did not fire me for simply saying I protest the sale of Tobacco but because I made it perfectly clear that from that moment forward, if I was placed in a cashier position and a customer asked me to sell them a Pack of Cigarettes, I would say "No". I even created a little button that read "Anti Tobacco Individual", with the 'No Smoking' sign on it just in case we could come to a compromise where I would wear that button to work and cite it as my excuse for not helping the customers buy tobacco. However, it is unacceptable in a retail environment to ever say "NO" to the customer...especially regarding a product on the shelf behind me that the customer is 'Legally' permitted to buy and use as they please.

But no matter what the stores policy is, I maintain the right as an individual to refuse. I was fired because my values and priorities were not compatible with the stores. I started working there because I knew I could help people out there, and make a modest living doing it...but not at the expense of my personal values. The stores priorities are to make as much money as possible within legal limits, regardless of how often the customers are cheated by way of confusion, the employees are screwed over, or people are hurt by the products they sell.

...why are there so many laws regarding the treatment of employees and the distribution of dangerous substances? ...because if it wasn't illegal, most corporations would screw the whole world over, even their own workers, to make an extra million. They would sell Cigars to 5-year olds if it wasn't against that law. (thinking of which...over the past 6-months, I've noticed a steadily growing selection of Fruity flavored Cigars in the stores inventory. What's up with that?!)

I'm more than a little pissed at him...I'm not the first good employee he's driven away either...but in the end, this is surely for the best.

I had no future in that company. Retail is NOT what I want to do with my life. My next temporary job will almost certainly be another retail position, but ideally that will just be to pay my way while I finally go back to school and learn a trade.

...the question remains however...What do I want to do?

[Shadow Wulf]

Well we can start off by whats your profesion? Your skills? your Hobby?

[Vuldari]

Well we can start off by whats your profesion? Your skills? your Hobby?

Profession: None

Skills: Experience with Retail, Sales, Merchandising, some freight and shipping...Ham preparation...Above Average (relatively speaking) knowledge and skill with computer hardware/software, some artistic talent, and exceptional attention to detail.

Hobbies: Cartoons, Videogames, Art, a budding interest in general Physical Fitness...and I used to be a regular "Mr. Fixit", but I've not had many opportunities to repair, reassemble or upgrade/modify anything challenging in the last few years (besides my Computer).


(...I should really be spending my energy and time putting stuff like this on a resume right now, instead of posting it here.)

The only reason why I have not gone to college yet (besides the cost involved) is because I've just not been able to make up my mind about what I want to do. I've considered the Service Trades (Carpenter, Plumber, Electrician, etc.), Tech-Support, and almost signed up to go to school for Drafting and Art/Ad Design, but changed my mind when I saw the kinds of jobs I would get, and my younger brother ended up following that path instead. (It's a little embarrassing to know that my younger brother almost has his degree already, while I'm still sitting at home...unemployed, with only a High School Diploma...and unsure what to do next.)


...at least all my big bills are paid for now (except one), I have 1 1/2 paychecks still coming, a few hundred $ in the bank, and lot's of "Free Time" to do some heavy job searching now.

One thing is for sure...I can do A LOT better than where I was...wearing a little blue vest and a name tag.

[Fenrir]

...wouldn't you get a scholorship if you went to college now? I thought they offered more scholorships to older people

[RedEye]

OK: Vuldari, first go to what passes for Unemployment Compensation in your state, and register. You might get U.C. approval and some (not a lot) of money for a while. They also have job references and referrals.
Then, if you have Microsoft Office, or Word on your compy, use that to make a resume.
Check online: there are free services that will help with that Resume, and there are services like Monster that will market you.
If there is a "Natural Foods" store in your community; one that sells Organic Food and suchlike, put in a Job App. yesterday. Your stance on Smoking might be a plus there.
Check your local Throw-away ad paper; there are job listings there. If there is a Recycler paper in your ares, check that, too.
Now, this is a voluntary: Post your City and State here. Those of us who live near you might help you look, or send some "Help wanted" information your way.
We are a Pack, after all; and a Pack watches out for its members.
Don't try to hide why you were separated from your job; but don't make a big thing of it either. You acted as a result of your Values. Some employers will see this as a plus, a reason to hire you.
Above all, see this as a step up: attitude is a really important part of getting a job.
Then, there's always Civil Service or the Post Office....
Best wishes....

[Midnight]

You can do a lot worse than learning a trade... I don't know about America but there's a chronic shortage of tradesmen (electricians, etc.) down here. Again, I don't know about America, but around here there are such things as electrical engineers' courses at polytech. (I've got a friend who just got laid off at the start of the year and has already started her electrical engineering course. And she's about my age, which is a fair few years older than yours, so not being a pimply-faced teenager shouldn't be a problem).

Otherwise... remember that work is something you do so you can afford to do the things you enjoy doing. Don't let yourself be put off trying something out just because you think it's boring or "not you". (My job is "not me" but it funds my books, CDs, DVDs and all my other vices so I can't complain that much.)

Lastly... a pharmacy selling ciggies? Whatever the farnarkle happened to "First do no harm..."?

[MoonKit]

It is a very sad thing that a Pharmacy would fire it's employee for refusing to sell poisons to consumers because he knows they are going to use them irresponsibly. ...but that's the messed-up world we live in today.

I think maybe you might have over reacted. Its absolutely wonderful to feel so strongly about something that you refuse to do it but your boss is just trying to make money. He can't keep on an employee who will piss off customers by not selling merchandise. He didn't do anything wrong. If you and he didn't sell them, people would take their business elsewhere and he would lose money. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm against smoking too. I think it's a completely foolish thing to do with absolutely no benefit but it is a free country. They can smoke if they want. If they want to waste their money and kill themselves, let them. This world is too populated as it is. Maybe a safer way to have voiced your opinion would be to start a petition trying to ban smoking. Or write letters to your local government or the cigarette companies.

But I understand how you are feeling about being fired. I know its tough because you start wondering how you're going to buy food and pay the rent. And trust me, I know it sucks when they just fire you without any warning. But you seem like a smart guy. As long as you try, you should be able to find a job soon. I wish you lots of luck!

[Vuldari]

It is a very sad thing that a Pharmacy would fire it's employee for refusing to sell poisons to consumers because he knows they are going to use them irresponsibly. ...but that's the messed-up world we live in today.

I think maybe you might have over reacted. Its absolutely wonderful to feel so strongly about something that you refuse to do it but your boss is just trying to make money. He can't keep on an employee who will piss off customers by not selling merchandise. He didn't do anything wrong. If you and he didn't sell them, people would take their business elsewhere and he would lose money. ...

... Maybe a safer way to have voiced your opinion would be to start a petition trying to ban smoking. Or write letters to your local government or the cigarette companies.

But I understand how you are feeling about being fired. I know its tough because you start wondering how you're going to buy food and pay the rent. And trust me, I know it sucks when they just fire you without any warning. But you seem like a smart guy. As long as you try, you should be able to find a job soon. I wish you lots of luck!

To be fair, he did not fire me for simply saying I protest the sale of Tobacco but because I made it perfectly clear that from that moment forward, if I was placed in a cashier position and a customer asked me to sell them a Pack of Cigarettes, I would say "No". I even created a little button that read "Anti Tobacco Individual", with the 'No Smoking' sign on it just in case we could come to a compromise where I would wear that button to work and cite it as my excuse for not helping the customers buy tobacco. However, it is unacceptable in a retail environment to ever say "NO" to the customer...especially regarding a product on the shelf behind me that the customer is 'Legally' permitted to buy and use as they please.

I hold no grudge against my Boss for letting me go. I understood the situation before I confronted him. The only thing I am really pissed about is his attitude. He did not even attempt to come to a compromise with me, or agree upon a way for me to leave the company more gracefully than being called a fool and being kicked out. After I told him how I feel and the decision I had made, he was very quick to specifically say that he will not even try to find a different position in the store for me because I did not give him any "Notice" (...umm...that WAS my notice. In what way can I notify him of my choice besides approaching him before work and informing him of it? When I asked him how he thinks I should have done it differently he said *in his own words*, "...it's too late now. I MIGHT have tried to fit you into the Pharmacy, but since you've decided to tell me this now, I won't even consider it. You are a fool and I no longer have any respect for you..." He ACTUALLY Said That).

I think he took it personally because he is a smoker himself. He even started rambling on about how I was going to start protesting certain prescriptions next or something...I'm guessing he was just unloading his personal frustrations on me.

( Though it may be true that I believe that many drugs are excessively prescribed as alternatives treating only the symptoms instead of actually addressing the underlying problems many patients suffer from, I trust Doctors and Pharmacists on the most part, and do not object to the PROPER use of prescription drugs. Many people would die from stupid things if they were forbidden from being used AT ALL.

If I ever felt compelled to confront any issues I may have on that front, it would be best applied to do so on the level of the Doctors giving out the prescriptions, and not on the consumer level.)

As for filling out petitions and writing letters...

...that would be about as effective as simply ranting about it here as I have been. Words can only do so much...and they hold almost no power, or can even work Against you if your actions do not back them up. No one listens to a Hypocrite.


Standing up for what you believe in is not something you only do when it is momentarily "Convenient" to do so...only to betray those values as soon as it becomes troublesome to defend them. Once my mind was made up about what I was going to do, it was done...there was no good reason in my mind to wait a few weeks or a month or however long until I got a new job or I got enough signatures to petition the store to remove tobacco from their stock. (that never would have worked...not for a few YEARS at least...and even then, they are making too much money off of it, and would likely just ignore the petition anyway.)


I care enough about this issue to loose my job over it. I think that sends a much more powerful message than just writing nagging letters to the local government. Although...starting a petition also, certainly could not hurt.

I made the decision that I did because it was important to me. However, it is also my hope ,(though there is no way I can be sure if it will really have that effect), that as a secondary effect of my action, all of the employees at the store (including the smokers) will know why I left employment and will give the topic a great deal more thought than they did before. Also, when the Regular customers start asking where I went, I hope that everyone will tell the truth about why I left so that they will be compelled to think about it as well.

I am confident that the ideal that I stand by is the right one, and that the more others take time to really think about it, the more they will come to realize themselves that it is right as well.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm against smoking too. I think it's a completely foolish thing to do with absolutely no benefit but it is a free country. They can smoke if they want. If they want to waste their money and kill themselves, let them. This world is too populated as it is.

BAAAAAAD Idea...

*Speaking In General of the Entire Human Race*

Stupid People far outnumber Smart people...and they reproduce like rabbits. If you just stand back and wait for the irresponsible and the destructive to kill themselves off, you will find that this will not occur until they have completely destroyed the world around them and exhausted all of the resources that were keeping them alive in the ****hole they created as a result. Once that happens, it's not just them that will die off, but every other friggin living thing on the planet that relied upon that environment and those resources too.

The Popularity of Tobacco and other such substances is a symptom of a social, and psychological disease that is gradually destroying the Social Strength and Civility of the entire human race.

Sitting back and just letting those who are sick in the head govern themselves as they are is guaranteed to end in disaster. Putting the intelligent in charge and ruling the majority with an iron grip (ala Dictatorship, etc.) can only end in bloody war. The best solution I see is to Cure the sickness of the many so that they are smart and well minded enough to govern themselves as is ideally the way it should be...which is accomplished by making them smarter and wiser...which begins with those who know the path slamming their foot down (metaphorically speaking) and saying, "NO...You Can NOT be an IDIOT...that is NOT okay...and it will NOT be allowed so long as you are capable of better".

IMHO NO ONE has the "right" to knowingly choose to be a careless moron. If you know better, there is no excuse. If you can be TAUGHT better, there is no reason not to do so.


[ Sorry for turning this into a RANT again. What it boils down to is, I did not make the decision that I made because of any petty grudge I hold against Smokers or the Tobacco industry...though those feelings exist as well...but instead stems from a conclusion I made while pondering my outlook on life and my overall philosophy. When I compared my actions over the past two years to my philosophy, I realized that continuing to act as part of the source for many to acquire what I deeply object to allowing them to have went against my overall values, which was simply unacceptable...therefore, it had to stop...IMMEDIATELY.


So it did. ]

[Kaebora]

In a buisness, it's their way or the highway.

I've had that nailed into my skull quite a bit by many bosses, professors, and family members for years. It's as true as can be. You can have whatever opinions you want, but you'd better do the job the way they taught you to do it, or you wont have a job anymore. Making money is the point of a buisness. Denying the sale of products to a customer defeats the purpose, dispite what the product is.

[Vuldari]

In a buisness, it's their way or the highway.

I've had that nailed into my skull quite a bit by many bosses, professors, and family members for years. It's as true as can be. You can have whatever opinions you want, but you'd better do the job the way they taught you to do it, or you wont have a job anymore. Making money is the point of a buisness. Denying the sale of products to a customer defeats the purpose, dispite what the product is.

Money should never...ever...EVER be the #1 priority for Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime...

...that is part of the "disease" I have been talking about.

They call it the "REAL WORLD".

I call it the path to Hell on Earth.

...and we have been walking that path for Centuries too long...

It's only a matter of time before we reach the end of that path...unless people are willing to stop marching along blindly and choose a NEW path. That doesn't happen by just "letting people be".

Our instincts are defective...they are leading us to our own destruction. Either we learn to act in defiance of our destructive impulses or we are doomed to watch the world continue to get worse until it is too late.


...but I am not a depressed fatalist. I'm actually a very positive and High Spirited person...because I have seen the sick get better, and I know there is still hope...if only more were willing to TRY.

[Kaebora]

What other purpose does buisness have? Buisness is the art of making money. Money is what is needed to live a prosperous life. Many brilliant artists lived poor and destressing lives because they always worried about where the next meal would come from. It's what some would call "a nessesary evil". Without money, we are helpless.

Of course we must all question how some people obtain that money, but that is a different topic altogether. The point here is, you don't start a buisness for any other reason but to make money. If you make no money, or very little for a lot of work, I'd see that as a charity. You really can't argue about the facts. It's just the way things are.


If I were filthy rich, I'd pay for every Pack member's trip to A-Kon, and donate to many Wolf sanctuaries. At least my spending would be good natured.

[Shadow Wulf]

Well money isnt the problem. What we need is more business with conscience, because you know how businesses without a conscience are. They dont care how they make their money aslong as they make more of it.

[Vuldari]

Business is one method by which to make a living. You provide a service or product to the community, and the community rewards you by providing you with the means to acquire the things you need, which in modern society in place of direct barter is accomplished through the exchange of money.

When Business works this way, there is nothing "EVIL" about it...necessary or otherwise.

The reason why most businesses have become the "Evils" they are today is because the DON'T work that way any more.

"MODERN" business (which I refer to as such only because it is how it has evolved to function, not because it is in any way superior to it's previous incarnations) instead is not about a constructive purpose of providing things the community actually needs in exchange for due rewards, but simply about acquiring larger and larger sums of money by whatever means that can be devised, regardless of the long term effects of those "means".

Personally...I think the Stock Market is a source of Evil. It is not evil fundamentally, but it encourages evil practices. When a company has "Stock", they are not only encouraged, but actually legally BOUND to do everything in their power to try to make MORE money every quarter and every year than those prior.

I think that is just messed up and wrong. If you have a consistent number of employees and a steady number of people every year who have need of the product or service you provide, then it is only reasonable that the companies profits would stay likewise steady. If all the employees paychecks are being paid...why exactly is it ESSENTIAL to make MORE money next year?

If the Businesses Customers are receiving the services they need, and they business staff's paychecks are all being paid, then why is that not "Mission Accomplished"? It should be. That is the fundamental purpose of the system in the first place.

The FALSE 'need' to acquire more and MORE money only encourages, and in some cases FORCES businesses to partake in dishonest, harmful and sometimes downright Evil practices in order to accomplish this unreasonable, and unnecessary goal.


No...the purpose of a Business should not be to "Make Money". The purpose of a Business is to serve the community though whatever methods they specialize in, and to reward its workers by providing them with the means to live...which is accomplished with Paychecks.


Money is merely part of a means to an end...Not the very point and goal in and of itself.

[MoonKit]

I hold no grudge against my Boss for letting me go. I understood the situation before I confronted him. The only thing I am really pissed about is his attitude. He did not even attempt to come to a compromise with me, or agree upon a way for me to leave the company more gracefully than being called a fool and being kicked out. After I told him how I feel and the decision I had made, he was very quick to specifically say that he will not even try to find a different position in the store for me because I did not give him any "Notice" (...umm...that WAS my notice. In what way can I notify him of my choice besides approaching him before work and informing him of it? When I asked him how he thinks I should have done it differently he said *in his own words*, "...it's too late now. I MIGHT have tried to fit you into the Pharmacy, but since you've decided to tell me this now, I won't even consider it. You are a fool and I no longer have any respect for you..." He ACTUALLY Said That).

OK...THAT I could see being pissed at. If there were possibly other positions where you could have worked that didnt sell cigarettes, I could see you being pissed off. Sucks that he was a smoker too...you cant really win in a situation like that.

[Vuldari]

FYI... I am not going to continue this discussion in this thread any longer.

I have allowed my messages to drift off topic into a rant only loosely related to the original message.

Thank you all for your words of confidence caring and support.

[Scott Gardener]

Now wait... they fired you because you wouldn't sell cigarettes? At a pharmacy?

Keeping in mind that some pharmacists have refused to give contraceptives and been endorsed for it by their companies. You can refuse to give people medicine, but you can't refuse to help them kill themselves. Shoot, my profession has it backwards. I guess I should be writing my next patient a script for a pack of Marlboro and a hand grenade with instructions on how to remove the pin while placing the metal pine cone in one's mouth.

[wolfbound]

i do allot with my free time. like keeping my porn collection nice tidy. just kidding. i have been working with my new job, and hitting the books for photography school hard.

[Vuldari]

Good News...I was just offered a New Job today, and have been asked to start next week. The pay per-hour is about the same as my last job, (though the weekly hours will be slightly less), and the position sounds like a perfect fit for me.

I actually applied for a completely different position with even less hours, but just before I left for the scheduled interview yesterday, I got a call from them asking me if I was interested in this other better position they had open which they were not advertising. Of course I said "Yes", and so they rescheduled my interview for Thursday Afternoon (today) to meet with a different manager, and the interview went Perfectly.

If I was to walk into the store, look around at all of the different tasks that I know need to be done to run the store (based on 5-years experience) and make-up my own Position based on what I am the best at doing, it would be exactly what this new Position was described to me as. The Job was almost tailor-made for me, and we both could see it, so they offered me the job on the spot.

It will be a minor pay-cut at first, but I'm sure I'll be able to make up for it in 'Overtime' and promotions/raises soon enough.



This was so fast. This was only the first place where I applied (and really my #1 choice). Depending on how their payroll works, I might not even have a gap in paychecks from my last job to this one.


I was just really happy and felt like sharing...

[lupine]

Good on you kidda

Hope all goes well for you.

The way things are going, I may be looking for work myself soon.

[Shadow Wulf]

Congradulations, Vuldari. Im glad you got a new job that you'll enjoy and so quick too.

I wish you the best of luck on your new job.