Guild Wars 2

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Vagrant
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Guild Wars 2

Post by Vagrant »

This is a game I'm very much excited about at the moment, it's got a lot going for it in that it isn't like other MMORPGs. There's no subscription, therefore you won't be forced to grind, and thus it can't suck both your money and life out through your nose, like some sort of... I don't know, pseudo-temporal money vampire. One with a nose fetish.

The reason I bring it up here is because the Norns (who are Vikings, and really very well realised Vikings at that) are also therians, it's sort of a toss up between these two things. The end result is that they can physically shift into half-forms. What does this get us? Viking Werewolves. Allow me to say this again, because I think it needs to be said twice to really sink in. Viking. Werewolves.

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This was a werewolf done up by one of the ArenaNet concept artists, nothing's been confirmed but it's believed to be a bit of a sneak peek as to what was going through their heads in relation to the werewolves. And comparing that to their Norn bears, it's not a huge leap to consider that the Norn wolves will actually look very much like that.

Here's a Norn bear!

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Oh, and of course, there are the Charr. What are the Charr? Roman-Mongol industrialist horned-cat people, that's what!

They haven't shown the Norn forms as models yet, they're keeping that under wraps, but you can see the Charr in the following videos:

Guild Wars 2 "Manifesto" Trailer
GamesCom Guild Wars 2 Demo

Yep, the Charr run on all fours when not wielding weapons! :3

This is definitely one to keep an eye on, eh?

Edited: I changed 'grind' to 'forced to grind', I made the flawed assumption that people would realise that this is what I was talking about, especially considering the context and what the sentence went on to say. But since I don't want to end up in a battle of semantics, I've changed the phrasing.

Guild Wars has optional grind like single player games like Ratchet & Clank have achievements, whether you do those or not is up to you. The only grind in any Guild Wars is self-inflicted, it's something you choose to do and is never expected of you or necessary at any point.
Last edited by Vagrant on Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Berserker »

I've been playing Guild Wars a lot, and GW2 looks great. But the lack of grind? Oh no, there'll be grinding... GW1 has tons of grinding. Want to get the title for vanquishing every zone? Get ready to invest a few dozen hours, especially if you're a newbie who doesn't have super powered NPCs. Want to learn all the skills for your class, or dare you take a second class? Get ready to farm your brains out for gold.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Vagrant »

Berserker wrote:I've been playing Guild Wars a lot, and GW2 looks great. But the lack of grind? Oh no, there'll be grinding... GW1 has tons of grinding.
That's not untrue, but it feels dishonest to me. When I'm talking about grinding, I mean enforced grinding, the sort of grinding you absolutely cannot avoid.

The grinding in Guild Wars was purely optional by its very nature, it was something that someone chose to do if they were bored but it was never a necessity. It didn't give any valid rewards, it gave cosmetic armour upgrades, titles, and skills with easier to obtain alternatives, but it gave nothing of actual worth. Just party favours, basically.

My point is this: In Guild Wars, you can play through level 1 to 20 and then call it quits, you can be as viable as any player that chooses to grind, and you can complete Guild Wars and call it quits without ever being forced to grind at any point. I completed all three of the campaigns and the expansion pack and at no point did I experience any grind, I chose not to do it.

Usually when people think of grinding, they're thinking about the grinding that's forced on you. Saying that there's grind in Guild Wars is like saying that there's grind in any game that has completely optional achievements, which unlock only cosmetic costumes and titles.

So yes, I do feel the need to stress this. There's less grind (as the average person thinks of it) in Guild Wars than there is in the average single player game. There's more optional grind in Guild Wars than the average single player game, but none of that you actually have to do. It's just there if you want it.
Berserker wrote:Want to get the title for vanquishing every zone?
An optional thing that conveys no valid reward. That kind of thing doesn't work on me, so I never even tried for it.
Berserker wrote:Get ready to invest a few dozen hours,
Choose to invest a few dozen hours for a cosmetic reward that's completely unnecessary? Sure. See? That's my point.
Berserker wrote:Want to learn all the skills for your class, or dare you take a second class? Get ready to farm your brains out for gold.
Again, all optional and none of this is actually required to complete any of the Guild Wars campaigns. And really, most skills can be acquired easily, the ones that can't don't convey a huge benefit, and usually have an elite skill variant. An elite skill that can be captured off an NPC boss with relative ease.

Moreover, no one actually needs all the skills. It's not like you have hundreds of spells like some other games I could name, you have eight skills and that's it. All you need to do is pick out a few skills here and there that fit the skills you have. That comes naturally as the game progresses. The drive to 'complete' the skill set is a bit pointless, and only for completion rather than viability.

The core philosophy of Guild Wars was always optional grind. It was never World of Warcraft. The only grind present is the grind you inflict upon yourself.

It's not like you'll ever need a title, a cosmetic armour, or go out of your way to get a skill to proceed. I never did. There are no super-shoulder pads that bar your progression through the game and stop you from going any further until you've done your time grinding to acquire them. There's nothing like that there.

I just wanted to make sure that people aren't mislead as to how Guild Wars is different from a game like World of Warcraft, different from a game that's considered very grindy.

Edited: Goofed the quotes.
Edited: Corrected one instance of Guild Wars 2 to Guild Wars. I'm just so used to writing Guild Wars 2 now!
Edited: Had one further point to make. So the last section is a lot longer.

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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Berserker »

Oh, that's what you meant. Yeah, it's a little backwards of Blizzard to deny storyline closure to everyone but a top percentage of players.

However, the thing that made me quit Guild Wars in 2005 and play WoW was the fact that once you got to level 20 (which took two weeks,) that was it, there was nothing else to do except grind (and they even took that away when they implemented the anti-farming mechanisms.) The feeling you took away from Guild Wars was "it was fun while it lasted." No monthly fee is great, being able to play this (essentially singleplayer) game with friends online is great, but it doesn't matter when there's no more than a month of content anyway. And then a year later the first "stand alone" expansion came out and it had even less content than the original game.

In original, vanilla WoW, if you got to max level, congratulations, you had seen the game. It was very similar to original Guild Wars in that regard: everything after max level was a grind. After the expansions started coming out, the game got more geared towards hardcore grinding and that turned a lot of people off. They're just now starting to make it more casual friendly again, but it's almost too late.

If Guild Wars 2 can break all the conventions of MMOs, I'd be all for it. But developers puff up a lot of big promises and then get hit with a deadline and can't deliver on their original vision; it happens all the time.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Vagrant »

Just thought I'd post back with some things...

Let's start off with a really nice image of a lady Charr thief! (It's a pic from the alpha phase, so there are some clipping issues, but even still it looks absolutely amazing!)

Next up, take a look at this video: Thief Skills (There are Charr and Norn sections in there, too.)

ArenaNet were talking about their game at PAX East, and quite a bit of good information was shared.

PAX East GW2 Discussion Panel - Part 1 - Includes MMORPG Manifesto Video
PAX East GW2 Discussion Panel - Part 2 - Includes Thief Skills Video

There was, of course, another gameplay demo at PAX East! One of the more fascinating ones was of this Charr with a greatsword! I really like the spin attack that can be used to both clear a path for people and to make a hasty escape should the Warrior find himself in trouble.

Gameplay Videos - Charr Warrior with Greatsword - Part 1
Gameplay Videos - Charr Warrior with Greatsword - Part 2

For those who're curious about the shapeshifting Norn (whom also have a wolf form!), here's some information from Norn week: Norn Week Begins, Legend and Legacy, Designing and Redesigning Events, and A Spirit of Legend.

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of interesting background races with their own lore, too. Have a read of The Hylek - Go Forth and Multiply. (The Hylek are a particularly interesting race of frog people, not playable, but just adding colour to the world. I'm fascinated by their use of Nahuatl.)

Here's a Hands-on Article by Eurogamer. There are some particularly nice bits there and the whole thing is worth a read. One of my favourite parts being this one: "The levelling curve is now an almost flat line, replacing the epic ascent with a steady journey where content, not advancement, is king. "

That's what I was talking about before - from all this it's easy to tell that ArenaNet are trying to get away from the slow combat grindfests of ancient MMORPGs, favouring a more action-RPG like environment, where you have to move and think on your feet a lot, and where you won't be doing static quest after static quest for a week in order to level up. In fact, Guild Wars 2 doesn't even have quests!

There's not a single quest in Guild Wars 2. Not one. Some people might look at the game and think that there are quests present, but there aren't. You won't find a single static quest of the sort we've seen in previous MMORPGs, and you can read about that on page 3 of their article.

This is why I'm so interested in Guild Wars 2. The gameplay is based on situational awareness, movement, and keeping your eyes on the screen rather than watching bars going up and down, or cooldowns expiring, it's a very kinetic and intuitive experience that feels more like a game than most MMORPGs do. That and the lack of grind, and the sped up progression where they put an emphasis on content is great, because that means that the game doesn't become a second job. And this is in their own words.

Combine all that with the Charr and the Norn... and, well, World of Warcraft can keep their worgen, because they can keep their cooldowns, their bar watching, and their slow progression that makes the game feel like a second job. Have a look at all the information above and see why I think that Guild Wars 2 is the game for me. And hopefully I'll have some of you there joining me as Norn and Charr!

Oh, and if any of you PD folks have any questions, ask 'em! I've been following Guild Wars 2 since the start, even read the books, so I know everything about everything, including the game mechanics, the elements surrounding the game, and the lore.

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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Aki »

I've been (and still am) eagerly awaiting GW2 when it's done. I rather enjoyed the first one (admittedly I only played the original GW and not the expansions) and they've seem to only made it better since then with all these neat bits like having a sort of personal story, running around and finding events, nice kinetic combat, etc.

And they have incredible April Fools jokes, I'm surprised this hasn't been posted here because it's downright hilarious.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by *Darth Canis* »

I am going Norn ranger. So if a giant wolf creature wasn't enough I will also have a wolf that will come after ya too! I am set up to play the next beta on Jul 20th. I am a member of guild that has kind of fallen away from Star Wars The Old Republic. We are called Sanctus if anyone is interested just send me a message.

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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by Terastas »

I'm usually strictly opposed to anything with "Guild" in the name, but Angry Joe gave it a 10/10, so. . . Well, money's still uber-tight for me so I probably will wind up not getting any games at all. :P But yeah, after everything I've heard, this is definitely on my short list.
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Re: Guild Wars 2

Post by silver1 »

I want this game now.
If you talk to the animals,they will talk to you and you will know each other.If you do not talk to them,you will not know them and what you do not know you fear,and what one fears one destroys.

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You say werewolf like its a bad thing.

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