THE PACK Message Boards

Midnight wrote:

Vuldari wrote:Isn't a Wiki a page of (supposed, "As far as I know this is correct") "FACTS"?

... after all the grief I get about expressing my own (albeit often incomplete) knowledge of how werewolves WERE portrayed in the past, are commonly portrayed today, and how the average person perceives a Werewolf ...

... You don't get grief from having your own opinion about things, you get grief for trying to shut other people down for having their own opinions. We know that you cannot countenance any vision of a werewolf other than that of a ravening monster completely out of control of him- or herself; most other people here think that it's time that alternative visions (which may be every bit as dangerous, but aren't as ubiquitous as yours) got their own fifteen minutes of fame.

This Wiki has the potential to be an amazing information resource about werewolves and werewolf lore of all types - books, films, legends, comics, web comics, you name it - and the last thing I want is to see it restricted to stories which fulfil the "Approved by Vuldari" criterion.

I believe that one of the three best fictional Monsters in the history of the world (the other two being Dragons and Vampires) is the Werewolf, and find pressured opinions that forbid (without actually saying it) the description and depiction of a Werewolf as a "Monster", or something worthy of being seen as a Monster (at pain of hate and ridicule) to be a painful stab at the heart of dramatized fiction and the beloved battles between good and evil altogether.

That is my motivation behind preferring to keep Werewolves "Scary" (and a good person who is in complete control is not scary at all).

I believe that the whole "Werewolf" genre is nothing and will not continue to thrive without it roots left planted firmly around the identity of a MONSTER ... regardless of how far it's branches may stretch and wander away from that in all different directions. (Which I never, EVER have claimed or suggested they shouldn't. ... but some just never seem to understand that. Branch out as far as your imagination can take it ... I'm just afraid some are trying to rip it up by the roots and remove it from the garden of MONSTERS it grew from ... which I often fear my lead to it's demise.)

I just like people to understand my opinion. (which I don't think you do yet)

My essay-posts about elements and histories of Werewolves that I did not invent myself have ALWAYS been intended as informative (like mini-wikis), as reference and reason for my opinions and suggestions. It has always been a matter of misinterpretation by readers that the stating of historical facts and personal observations is a claim to have any authority to invalidate anyone elses opinions or ideas. There is a reason for everything I do and everything I believe, and I just like to provide others with all of those reasons so they can see for themselves the train of thought that led me to having the opinion or coming to the conclusion that I did. Some are intimidated by my efforts towards making strong arguments, and others just seem to miss the points I make and suggest that I said something other than I did, which leads to those conversations turning heated and argumentative rather than passive discussions and debates very often. However, though I may occasionally list reasons why an idea or opinion is unappealing to me, I never intend to suggest that person is not allowed to have it.


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Books, Films, Comics, Legends, Folklore ... If you read my whole post, you would have seen that I said that these things would be GOOD things to make a Wiki about, because those are established and well defined.

That is NOT what Celestialwolf suggested though. The suggestion was that we make a Wiki of ideas from "The PacksDen" about what a werewolf SHOULD be ... (which would, by essence, intentionally or unintentionally, also be saying that all that differs from it's contents are what a werewolf SHOULDN'T be)

THAT is what I was in protest against.



Many here have shared their opinions on what they WANT werewolves to be, and there are many points that are notably more popular one way than the other ... but I don't really like the idea of collecting all of the POPULAR ideas together in any kind of "Official" document, as to me it would just sort of feel like the popular kids all ganging together and sticking their tongues out at the less popular kids going, "Nya, naa, na, naa, naaaaaa ... we're more popular than Yoouu ... ooooo ..."



A Wiki about every Book, Film, Comic (printed or web) and Traceable Legend/Folktale we know of? (Relating to Werewolves) SURE!



A Wiki about whose opinions are more popular than others? No.

Well, how about instead of grouping together the most popular opinions, we could list every single specific fact, opinion, perspective, concept, observation, and analysis of every single specific topic, source, idea, folklore, historical information, cultural aspect, art, literature, and fiction relating to the werewolf? One gigantic list of everything anyone has ever said or done relating to werewolves, on the Pack or elsewhere, ever?

What a pipe dream. Could we pull it off?

What a pipe dream indeed, but it is good to see someone with a positive outlook on how things should be....unlike some people*cough*

Gevaudan wrote:Well, how about instead of grouping together the most popular opinions, we could list every single specific fact, opinion, perspective, concept, observation, and analysis of every single specific topic, source, idea, folklore, historical information, cultural aspect, art, literature, and fiction relating to the werewolf? One gigantic list of everything anyone has ever said or done relating to werewolves, on the Pack or elsewhere, ever?

What a pipe dream. Could we pull it off?

Have you ever read an encyclopedia ... or a Wiki Article? That is not how a "Wiki" works.

You mention something ... summarize it briefly (as much as possible) in a way that makes sense ... and then cite sources for each tidbit that one can trace to learn more about that specific thing if they are interested.

Even if there is not a link to an article online, if you read it from a book ... mention the title and author of the book. If you read it in a comic ... name the comic. One does not need to re-post the entire rulebook for a pen and paper RPG that involves Werewolves to mention that it exists, list points of note, and then cite the name and source of the book so that one could look it up on their own.


Such a thing is defined and finished though. The opinions of the the people here are constantly evolving. There really is no such thing as a "Pack Consensus" for anyone to list. There are just too many opinions.


Who decides what goes in, and what doesn't? How would that decision be made? I just don't see how that could work.

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Vuldari: I already explained once, albiet probably not very articulate, how an article about a specific topic holds an abundant amount of opportunities for expressing differing werewolf opinions. If it's one consensus the pack has come up with over the years, it's that we don't all agree. No body is going to make this wiki read like a 'fact book' (or 'in universe' as some Wiki users might say.), it's going to be both a source of information and ideas.

Don't take me the wrong way when I say this: If you're not interested, it's not your wiki: Don't write.

Gah, this new editing syntax is messed up

I have an inkling of an idea. Maybe when (or if) Freeborn is made, we could make a Freeborn wiki. That way there's an established universe, and facts on which everybody can pretty much agree.

Wingman wrote:Gah, this new editing syntax is messed up

Quite. It should work similarly to Wikipedia, right?

Yeah, I think it's the same as wikipedia. Ah, just found an editing guide.

Don't be shy; feel free to add more content to the wiki!

So far so good, but this will only work if a lot of people help put it together. You can ask questions or whatever on the discussion pages if you need to, and I have a few links on the main page to help you out if you're new to editing (like I am!).

Another link for your convenience (and see my sig as well):

http://thepack.rcromar.com/wiki

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Made a couple of small changes for clarity/sense. You'll have to compare pages closely to find them, they're that miniscule.

Well, The Pack Wiki has been screwed over by a bot and I can't seem to recover my admin password.

Unless someone knows how to revert everything that was changed (I checked the history and I see that it can be reverted back, but don't know how) or how to recover the admin password and then lock it, I'm going to remove that domain and all associated files from my server.

Nobody was really using it anyway, but if you're interested in keeping The Pack Wiki alive, reply here or forever hold your peace