Next topic. What kills a werewolf?

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Next topic. What kills a werewolf?

Post by Calypso Blue »

Yeah, I've seen all sorts recently. Silver is the classic which im a fan of. My viewpoint on silver is this.

Regular bullets to a werewolf are like BB's to a human. They might hurt a bit, but not do too much damage.

Silver bulelts on the other hand are like shooting regular bullets at a human, (45's).. hurt, and can kill easily.

Chopping off the head works with most anything.

Also, if a werewolf is in human form, is he more veunerable to normal damage?
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bullets smullets

Post by WolfBoy »

Why silver? It just seems so Hollywood. I figure a shotgun would do the trick with normal bullets. Its just the werewolf should be smart enough to know when he/she is being/going to be shot at and avoid it *or even just outsmart the person that is trying to kill it*, all the increased senses have to help keep the werewolf knowing whats around him and the danger the person poses to him/her. Sure the silver idea is cool and adds to the supernatural creature that is a b**** to kill but it isn't very realistic if realism is what your going for. I mean, a normal wolf or human you don't go blasting with silver bullets because you know better so how does mixing the 2 make it immune to regular bullets. The only thing I could think of is that it would take alot more firepower to bring a werewolf down, I've seen footage of a out of control dog take a good 10 bullets and still try to attack the vitcum*real tv*.

Do think the human should be just alittle more veunerable, but hardly. That change of DNA is still there in human form so somethings have to carryover from werewolf to human form.

Just my thoughts on it.*shrugs*
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Post by Xodiac »

Silver vs. regular bullets only ONLY works if werewolves are magical/mystical in origin. Silver represented the moon, purity, and good, and so is an excellent symbolic foil for werewolves. But if this is supposed to be transmitted by a virus like in Ginger Snaps, or is otherwise treated more logically, then a regular bullet would do just as much damage as a silver one - at least at the onset.

One semi-logical nod to silver as the anit-werewolf metal that I've seen is that weres are genetically allergic to silver. Putting any to their flesh or against their bodies thus is treated like an extreme allergic reaction. Another is that silver represses the regeneration capability. A bullet hurts like hell, but it heals over quickly. (Logically, the insta-heal of movies isn't possible, but a few days can be accepted as "logical.") Thus regular bullets can kill if they hit in the right spots; otherwise, they are indeed like BBs. A silver bullet would be like regular bullets wherever they hit.

Of course, depending on the setting, it's always possible that silver has no effect, werewolves having successfully subsituted it in mythology centuries ago for what really hurts them.
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Post by Inry »

IMO, silver, mercurium and some oher metals are highly toxic to the super-regeneration system of werewolf. Based on this:
1. silver can be dangerous in non-metalic form. f.ex., photo fixer or other materials could kill werwolf too.
2. there could be antitode for wervolves: any recative that tie with silver. f.ex., sulphur or EDTA.
3. marking a cross on bullet helps only because bullet splits apart.

Because werwolves have regeneration, I give anothe two ideas:
1. destroyed werwolf could heat up until burning or it's remaints are highly-destructive acid.
2. If you decapitate ww, or seriuosly damage it's brains without silver, he can regenerate, but newly created parts are mindless. So, shoot neutral sapien wolf and recieve mindless angry beast. If you split ww in half, first half would become same person, but second - usual wolf with high regeneration abilities.
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Post by WolvenOne »

If it's magical, a silver bullet is fine, if albeit somewhat cliche.

If it's not magical or if the exact cause is unknown, I'd avoid the entire silver bullet bit, it's been used so much that it's simply expected.

If the werewolf has regenerative capabilities, then a normal bullet can kill them, but it'd have to be aimed at a vital organ such as the brain.

However, regenerative capabilities wouldn't protect at all against drowning, nor would speed, or strength. When it comes to water, a werewolf should be just as vulnerable as any reguler old joe. So if it were me, I'd set up a situation where the werewolf could be drowned.
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Post by Xodiac »

However, regenerative capabilities wouldn't protect at all against drowning, nor would speed, or strength. When it comes to water, a werewolf should be just as vulnerable as any reguler old joe. So if it were me, I'd set up a situation where the werewolf could be drowned.
Oh, well, sure. Besides silver, there logically should be other ways to kill almost anything. Throw it into a hot enough oven and it'll get cremated, and if you burn something enough, it WILL die. Probably wouldn't have to be turned entirely to ash, either. (This works with vampires too, I'd imagine. Like I said, burn anything enough...)

Drowning is more problematic, as is electricution and various other things that kill people but leave the body more or less whole. Once again it depends on how much the writers are relying on magic to explain their supernatural creatures. Make them magical enough, and so long as there's a body it can heal. In which case, it WOULD have to burn all the way to ash, drowning would be a termporary setback, electrocution might slow it a few minutes, and so on.

Without a more definite idea of what the writers of this movie intend, it's kind of hard to say what's "right" when it comes to the supernatural.
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Post by Guest »

Well my specialty is dragons,however I did used to try the armenian werewolf ritual on mtself

circle of chalk
the candle in the center
the poppy/parsley mix
the nudity
the rhyming incantation
midnight

never did work,but it was cool

That said,Ive noticed the old world connections between the
dragon and the wolf

In the old days roman legions had windsocks called dragon standards
which looked like a wolfs head

that old kempion ballad had a wolf/dragon tie in
Lots of old artists did St Georges dragon as a dog/wolf
like creature

for example
check Carpaccio's St George and the Dragon (1502)
and especially The Triumph of St George ( 1502)
http://www.wga.hu

and you'll notice the dragon model might have been sound sick
mongrel yapping at Carpaccio from a back alley

I've also seen Satan portrayed as that dragon St George is fighting

Some say the devil grants the power of werewolfism to evil
humans

Satan was supposed to have excessive pride,be a bit of a trickster
and be smart

So we have this boastful tricky ivory tower con man
winged doggy reptile turning humans into HIS
idea of what a werewolf looks like

Plenty of plot potential there

-Satan gives the werewolf some of his physical and mental and emotional
attributes which leads to a very smart tricky butt ugly werewolf

-Satan sneaks in a Jack in the Box surprise into the new big prideful
smart werewolf to get its soul when he needs it

etc
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Post by Guest »

I would then take the notion of the damned/shystered werewolf conman
and mix it with a lyric such as " Tall Men Riding" ( sung to the " Hawkers
and Tramps" tune http://www.contemplator.com/america
to give a spirit to the beasties plight
dD

hmm

Post by dD »

Ordinary bullets should dissolve harmlessly within the rapidly healing werewolf's body. Silver however circumvents this if it has been consecrated in a church.
No machine gun holding werewolves please, this is a primal bloody beast not a kids comic book. ;)
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Post by Guest »

Perhaps something that matches the age the werewolf bloodline was created to the age of the weapon

hence if the wolfline was founded in 1746AD a M16 loaded with silver
bullets won't work
but a Brown Bess flintlock smoothbore will
tamier (Silver)

What kills a Werewolf

Post by tamier (Silver) »

Ok, here's my two cents.

In human form - I would think that their metabolism would cross over a littl bit into their bipedal form. They would - say - heal something that takes stitches in twentyfour hours, and broken bones in say three or four weeks. Not enough regeneration to be able to walk away from a bullet, but certainly a bit more than the normal human.

Wolvesbane. That's prett bad. It's like garlic to Vampires. Some of it could make a werewolf sick - like poison ivy. So werewolves stay away from it. If someone ate poison ivy they would get very sick. If they ate lots of poison ivy, or got it in their bloodstream, they'd die. Enough wolvesbane, applied correctly, kills werewolves. It's a great repellant.

I agree with the bullets are like BB's explaination. They hurt, they can really really damage, but they just don't have enough to kill - unless many people are all shooting BB machine guns. You could put someone's eye out! or worse, actually rip through their neck and their head would come off. (hey, it could happen. Makes as much sense as some of the stuff we see in movies) But for the most part, bullets would make a werewolf really mad, and maybe slow them down a bit.

Drowning - I'm sure it's possible - you can drown anything with lungs that need air. But it would take a HHHHEEEELLLLLLL of a lot. Who's going to volunteer to hold one down? Same with baking, frying, broiling - you could, but who's going to get them in the oven.

A hot enough fire kills anything. When something is broken down that completely, it would take more than good regeneration to return to health. Fire kills werewolves.

No Head - unlike worms, werewolves need heads to regenerate. This comes from the old belief that the brain controls every action of the body. We know, now, that some cells and other organs act independantly of the brain. However, the brain operates heart, and lungs, and when THEY quit, so does the werewolf. I think it's like fire. When too many things go wrong, there's no chance of repair.

Silver - now for the big debate. The idea of silver harming a werewolf was from many different origings, but none were Hollywood. Silver was connected to the moon like gold was to the sun (in some places, gold affects vampires). But more than that, silver is one of the purest metals known. Even today. It was the purity of the metal - and its connection with the moon, that made it dangerous to werewolves. The instructions for killing a werewolf included using siver weapons. But it was stressed that the silver could not be forged with any other material, not even in the handle of the weapon. It had to be pure. It didn't need to be strong. Werewolf flesh sizzled at the touch. Silver - pure silver not silver's cousins, kills a werewolf.

For some reason, the chemical make up of the metal counter acts their ability to regenerate. Not only that, it acts like acid and eats away whatever it touches. If a werewolf manages to survive an encounter, they will take as long as any human to heal it, and only after it's been thoroughly removed from the system. It is their Kryptonite.

Good or evil? - There are various legends on that, but I like the ones that say werewolves can be both. One or two legends say that when a werewolf voluntarily eats human flesh, they become evil. Good by me. If anything sentient voluntarily eats human flesh, they're either desperate, insane or evil.

Last thing. I would like to see a werewolf movie try to stick as close to traditional as possible. I absolutely love Blade. But I hate hate hate how they use silver to kill vampires. Look, we purists don't want our fantasy to be messed with. If you change things, how will we know how to act if we meet a werewolf on the street? We might insult them. And while we're figuring out what to use to kill them, we're dinner. Just keep it traditional. I'll sleep easier.
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Post by Guest »

Drowning - I'm sure it's possible - you can drown anything with lungs that need air. But it would take a HHHHEEEELLLLLLL of a lot. Who's going to volunteer to hold one down? Same with baking, frying, broiling - you could, but who's going to get them in the oven.
Yes there are many ways to kill something that regenerates. I would have to argue that it wouldn't be THAT hard to drown a werewolf. If you managed to push a werewolf into a fairly sizable river, the current would do the rest. This may not be common knowledge but most sizable rivers tend to have strong under-currents that pull things under the surface, and there's no reason to believe that a werewolf would be any stronger of a swimmer then a human or a dog.

If you look at how normal people drown, very rarely are they held down, it simply doesn't work very well. More likely then not a person will drown when thier leg gets stuck in something or they cramp up, or if they simply get caught in an undercurrent.

More likely then not, this'd be the same for werewolves.

On an after-note, yeah, heavy weapons such as flame throwers and machine guns, probably could be used to kill a werewolf without TOO much trouble. However, I highly doubt you'll find such weaponry just laying around.
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Post by Guest »

Well according to that armenian werewolf spell after you make your pledge
to sserve the great grey wolf spirit for evermore you do the
' make me a werewolf,make me a man eater...make me a werewolf,make me a child eater ' incantation and then you're supposed
to do another spell to make you invulnerable to bullets,etc

I suppose what kills you depends on the wording in that 3rd recital

hence miss a line and you're at risk from that danger

Also theres nothing in the spell about tf'g under the full moon

It says the grey great wolf spirit will find you shaking quaking in a
magic circle of your making

Whether the giggling laughing effiminate guy decides to show up is
I suppose up to him/her?

However you've pledged to serve him/her forever more in cold raw grey wolf land,which I'm sure could freak out a lawyer if he read such a contract

I could certainly see myself calling apon my " servants' at the most
inconvenient of times,since theres nothing in the armenian spell contract
forbidding me to do so

Thus forget about once a month under the full moon
< Uncle Grey Wants You >
i can just imagine the recruiting poster saying

which would then have a major bearing on how you kick
the bucket as a werewolf
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Post by Goldenwolf »

I'm a fan of the old silver as well. To me it just screams "werewolf" both in mythology and current media. Also, the regenerative thing I've always loved as well. Makes the creature that much freakier that it can just walk up to a guy unloading his pistol into it and reach out and crush his skull. Or fall from a building and walk away, etc. I love for something that powerfull to have an achille's heel, something that can be used against our hero (yes, hero!). As for regenerative abilities only in werewolf form? Please. Why not in ALL forms? Also have strength, stamina, and agility of the wolf in human form as well. Makes for a more interesting creature in my eyes.
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Post by WolvenOne »

As for regenerative abilities only in werewolf form? Please. Why not in ALL forms? Also have strength, stamina, and agility of the wolf in human form as well. Makes for a more interesting creature in my eyes.
I'll agree on most counts, however, the wolf form has to be obviously supperior or else there's really no reason to shift into it. So, sure, a werewolf in human form should be stronger and faster then an average human, and have at least some degree of regenerative capabilities. However, these strengths shouldn't scream super-human.

At least that's what I think.
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Post by Terastas »

Silver is regarded as being synonimous with purity, so making a weapon out of silver can feel like a really soul-damning process. If it's magic we're talking about, it wouldn't be the silver itself that's harmful to werewolves, but the process by which one uses a pure material to make a tool of death. It would therefore be similar to removing the horn of a unicorn (pure magic when attatched, but cursed when removed). Something with that kind of maliciousness put into it's creation would kill anything.

But I'm not too big on elements of magic, so I'd recommend that the silver bullet be just a myth.

If you want anything anti-werewolf, I'd go with Belladonna (AKA: Deadly Nightshade).
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Post by runningwolf »

Goldenwolf wrote:I'm a fan of the old silver as well. To me it just screams "werewolf" both in mythology and current media.
Having read up on the mythology, I can't find Silver mentioned as the Werewolf's weakness. Only shattering the spinal cord seems to work. I'd prefer that way over the silver bullet method, since I feel it's getting old.
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Post by Silverclaw »

I have some mixed feelings on this one. It is a bit overdone, that only a silver bullet can kill a werewolf. I think if it can kill a human, it can kill a werewolf. But they should be much stronger, with faster healing abilities. A bullet that would kill a human would slow down an werewolf. Drowning would work for them and if they fell off a plane or something. If their are people like werehunters or something, they could use silver weapons more for symbolic reasons then anything else.

If silver is used, I agree that it should be more of an allergic reaction. Burning and healing ability is impared ect.
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Post by Silverfang »

i'm on 2 halfs on this, but yes one point thats been raised is that the werewolf should gain something extra in human form, noting to the point that screams " I'm a werewolf! " but in sutile ways eg: increased hearing, better night vision and smell and some increased strength
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Post by Terastas »

Realistically, it doesn't have to be a silver bullet. Back when it was said that only a silver bullet could kill a werewolf, the most advanced firearms they had available were cannon balls. Silver injected into the blood stream might cause an allergic reaction, but someone trying to hunt a werewolf would probably have better luck with a Desert Eagle or an M-16.
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Post by Darksong17 »

I think they should be able to regenerate at abnormal speed in human form and are harder to kill than your average human. A hit to a vital organ is more likely to kill particularly heart or brain. In werewolf form I think they should have even faster regenerative abilities and should be even harder to kill. I think normal things should kill a werewolf not silver bullets. Explosions.. getting shot in the brain or heart.. etc.
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Post by Apokryltaros »

To add my two cents again, it's mentioned that wolf's bane is to werewolves what garlic is to vampires.
As something of a horticulturist, I want to point out that it's deadly poisonous to humans, too, in that it contains very powerful alkaloid neurotoxins.
I'd like to see a scene where a hunter decides to use wolf's bane to flush out a werewolf, possibly by poisoning food, but is unaware of it's toxicity towards mundane humans.
Also, witches' "flying ointments" or "werewolf ointments" contained wolf's bane because if the juice of the plant, the root especially, is rubbed onto skin, one then immediately gets the sensation of hair sprouting (hence the werewolf ointment), and if enough is rubbed on, one begins hallucinating (possibly its use as a "flying ointment").
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Post by Guest »

Do we really need to kill werewolves?
They're too cute to kill.
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Post by Terastas »

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need to kill werewolves?
They're too cute to kill.
Of course we don't. All of us here love them for what they are, but don't forget, some people are xenophobic, stupid, misguided and/or want to eradicate anything that doesn't fully agree with whatever the hell their preaching. African Americans have the Ku Klux Klan, Jews have the Neo Nazis, homosexuals have the Westboro Baptist Church, and werewolves have the Van Helsing wannabes.
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Post by Vuldari »

Taking into account the rate at which a werewolves body changes durring transformation, accelerated regeneration/healing is logical. However, I beleive that a werewolf should be able to be killed just like any other living creature if the right parts are injured. ( Heart, Brain, lungs, spine or any other vital organ.)
A creature, human or otherwise, can drown far easier than most people realise. Take this from a person who has experienced trying to tread water with even a tiny bit of water in my lungs.
I agree that a werewolf should have slighty enhanced physical attributes while in human form, but not "greater than a normal human". Rather, just greater than they were previously.
As for the whole Silver debate...I think it should be mostly a myth, but still applicable. Silver is poisonous. So is Wolfs Bane.
A single stray silver bullet killing a Werewolf in either form...NO way. But a chunk of poisonous silver lodged into the right vital organ...definately. It could be a ironicly appropriate end for a werewolf to be killed by what "wasn't" supposed to kill it.
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