The skeleton in TF

Moonstalker · Post by **Moonstalker** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:00 am

In my story, the hero turns in to a werewolf and on the first time its painful. The bones change rapidly and it hurts. Bones grow longer and they change, skull becomes more wolfish and legs more animal. Bone is a living tissue as well, it grows and feels pain. It might be quite disturbing if your bones suddenly start to change, it might hurt quite a bit. It could me painless as well though

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:07 pm

I always had the same numebr of molecules such that everything was merely distorted. But then again, in my stories, i had magic too... The was everythign was done was that a bit of magic attached itself to each molecule or atom and moved it into place. Since it';s mostly mammals-> mammals the end result looks very much like a 'traditional' tf. the mind is preserved via magic. Of course, this is all poppycock, but very fun to conisder.

redwolfmoon · Post by **redwolfmoon** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Okay, I'm finding that my theories are usually The Pack's punching bag, so here's some fun for you punchers. It's an excerp from something I wrote a long time ago...

"...Sage cried out as his body burned, he could feel his blood rushing and every cell rubbing together as they rearanged all across his body, friction nearly unbareable. The heat and pain made it nearly impossible to move as his bones snapped and muscles strained to stay attached to tendons, he could only curl into a pile on the concrete of the parks walkway. His chest cavity felt like bursting as he roled to his back, even screams not able to discribe his pain. His nails grew as the pain of his jaws elongating swept over him, a new wave of agony. He could feel how different he was and thanked the gods for the wave of cool, light pain as his hair became fur over his naked form as the shift completed. His breathe steadying..."

Any time I think of the change scientifically, I always imagine the CGed grafics of rushing cells, waves of electricity over the brain, and bones fracturing and elongating.
As the bones brake and quickly try to heal as they elongate, muscle tissue does its best to keep with it and all the tendons, like braking your leg and getting a charley-horse at the same time all across your body... ow.
Since compared to all the other pains, hair would probably be a peace of cake and perhaps help relax said shifter. I have a concept on what the final outlook of the skeletal shift at-
http://www.deviantart.com/view/35068750/

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:53 pm

That's actually a really good descrip and illustrations, Redwolf.

While I was at Market today, someone came through carrying a pit bull puppy. I was looking at the paws mostly, and rather fascinated at how much they look like hand digits. A little larger knuckles, thicker phalanges and webbing between them to keep them moving together, but basically the same structure, with longer, tougher nails of course. I never really looked at dogs' feet, to tell you the truth.

Bit of insight into the suspensory (tendons and ligaments) system...I'm currently dealing with a bout of tendonitis and I can tell you, IT HURTS. Add to the list of "bones breaking and charley-horses happening all over your body at once," tendons and ligaments stretching and popping.

I never really thought about how much punishment the human hand takes. It truly is an outstanding piece of physiological art and a supreme adaptation. I can make a fist and type with a little difficulty, but tonight, that's all I can do. After the laundry's done I'm going out to the store and buy myself some Tiger Balm or Badger Sore Muscle Balm.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:42 pm

Try Salonpas or epsom salt.

howlbigbadwolf · Post by **howlbigbadwolf** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:01 pm

Im thinking a massive meleular change happing in a short amount of time that is why werewolfs have such a fast healing factor. somthing changing that fast need to be able to heal at the same time, thats why we have to eat our matablism is working in a almost impossible state and need to be fueled all the time. Thats why i Eat Cows plenty of meat, humans are not enough you have to eat like 3-4 of them to equal a cow. Now that good eating

Moon_Lover · Post by **Moon_Lover** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:25 pm

vrikasatma wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote:Little nitpicking:I think you mean osteoclasts.
*PING*
Yes.

Rassafrackin' chemo-brain messin' wit' my cognitives...

Careful... :idea2:

It is a shocking discovery, but still...

Back on the subject, I vaguely recall that bone is a composition of chips. My notion is the fact that the chips are attached through bonds, and a virus, if it is such, would harbor in the mind and marrow. From there, I'd take the psychic route. The bonds between the cells o the body are simply energy, so all you would have to do is subconsciously adjust those energy bonds, and then the bones themselves would shift. After a time, you learn how to control such modification, and you have controlled shapeshifting.
Painful, like how someone puts their hand through a table, but still...

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:32 pm

Um, I hate to break it to you, but, "bone" bone is made up of crystals of a calcium phosphate mineral called "apatite," and are cemented together with collagen and proteins in vertebrates with cartilaginous skeletons, like sharks and sturgeons, or with collagen, proteins and calcium carbonate secretions with higher vertebrates.
Also, the cells of the body are not so much as bonded together, as being cemented together with stuff like collagen and elastin, not "energy," and that bone marrow is not ennervated like muscle tissue.

Moon_Lover · Post by **Moon_Lover** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:35 pm

Understandable. I was thinking of atomic theory at the time.
And I was about 10 when I last thought of this, and rather naive about biology.
So, on that note, thanks for clearing it up.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:03 pm

I find it helps immensely in believability that one be as aware of current scientific ideas as humanly possible when one tries to explain fantasmical organisms, such as werebeasts, scientifically.

RedWolf · Post by **RedWolf** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:49 pm

If you're interested in technical details about lupine skeletons,
check out the "Virtual Wolf Osteology" website at
http://www.uwyo.edu/RealLearning/wolfindex.html

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:22 am

Actually, bone is covered with a layer of periosteum, which is very sensitive. It's true that bone tissue per se doesn't have much in the way of pain receptors, but bone problems are none-the-less notoriously painful; that's one reason why cancer patients often times have to be on high dose Oxycontin. Bones shifting form suddenly would hurt like crap. But, a lot of shifting pain probably would be from all the soft tissue, also shifting form.

Bone can conceivably change shape. As an osteopathic doctor, my own training includes a well-backed theory that it indeed does routinely. I've been taught how to feel a subtle rhythmic change in the width and length of the skull, by about a millimeter or two, every four seconds or so. (If you've got lots of free time, try Googling "craniosacral mechanism" or "Sutherland cranial osteopathy." I'm sure there's also plenty of articles that may try to accuse our profession of making the whole thing up, but I've felt it and I've worked with it. I know it's there.)

Osteopathic strangeness aside, bone is only hard because of the calcium phosphate (and other mineral) deposits. I've seen a documentary showing someone bending a bone like rubber once these deposits were dissolved in a chemical bath. It's not a big leap to postulate osteoclasts or other cells secreting a similar chemical. (Though, admittedly, it's not a small leap either, since the chemical shouldn't also damage the cells, collagen, and everything else.) Then, the calcium, phosphorus, and so forth can be re-layed and the bone appearantly stays fairly firm while shifting and becomes pretty solid almost immediately after. (Good for the psychology of the newly shifting werewolf, who can then worry about how one can ever get back into human form, when one's distended face feels pretty rigid.)

Indeed, you don't want the bones to get too dissolved too much all at once, as too much calcium in the blood leads to hypercalcemia (a medical term for, well, too much calcium in the blood. But, trust me, it's not a good thing. Think fatal arrythmias and such.)

KitWolf · Post by **KitWolf** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:30 am

ok well Im no genius when it comes to science and all that. My explanation is basically.. there isnt a scientific reason. I believe that the curse itself is started by mystic means.. it is a curse.. and therefore the transformation of the skeleton is just a part of the curse.. wih no proper scientific reason. Science and mysticism would never be crossed

Kanibal · Post by **Kanibal** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:42 am

I always thought the body could take material from somewhere as easily as it could put it there.
Shouldnt that happening at an incredably fast rate explain it?

As for the nails and stuff, it's still connected to the body, could the material not still be used?

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:38 pm

Okies heh I didn't see this thread before so I will throw in my two cents. In a werewolf shift since to shift into anything is scientifically impossible it would be even more impossible to come to how it happens. But here goes..In the shift everything grows bones, muscles, size, an strength. Where the mass comes from, no one can explain it, but try to. Another thing is the body has to do all these changes according to the size of the Being that has shifted for instance with" Z" permission this Jez shifting

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/426 ... ort%3Atime

Not human at all, but still it's able to shift an grow mass. How? We don't know? I'm sure people have heard of the term "Big Boned" Some people are naturally born with this. It is explained to us as it's just in the family genes. Same as if there was a werewolf. The bone structure can an will change, It has to so it can accomadate(sp?) the new mass of muscle an the immense increase in size. It will probably never be able to be explained unless a werewolf for some reason set themselves up to be tested on which I doubt. You can't explain the unexplainable..