The 2008 Elections

The place for anything at all...
Post Reply
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

The 2008 Elections

Post by vrikasatma »

It's a political discussion but let's try to keep things civil, hm'kay? Post here thine ongoing thoughts about the 2008 presidential election. Outside-of-Americans welcome to weigh in from their point of view.

I'll start:

Campaign overall: It's exciting. We're finally coming into the 21st Century with a woman candidate and an (openly) black candidate.

The Dems:
Hillary: Believe it or not, I'm somewhat ambivalent on her. I like her stance on the issues; she's good for small businesses and I'd love to see a woman in the Oval Office. Whatever her politics, we'd see a change simply because the views are coming from the distaff. However, as the first woman president, and a Democrat, we KNOW the Republicans would dredge up the Whitewater scandal and throw it in her face like the proverbial blue dress. I'm also not convinced as to what she'd do about the war. There's a lot she's not talking about.

Barack Obama: President Obama, visualize that! Nevertheless, I'm excited and encouraged about him. He's a man of the people and a <i>good</i> mediator. He was addressing a pro-choice rally in Chicago and there were a bunch of pro-life demonstrators outside. His minders tried to sneak him past them and he said, "No, let me talk to them." He did go out and address the group, placated them and got them to understand where the pro-choicers were coming from. We NEED someone who listens and has the trick of talking to all sides of the table.

John Edwards: I could tell straight off, back on that awful day of November 5 2004, that he wanted to keep fighting, even as his running mate Kerry was bowing out. John wanted the ballots to be counted to the last before conceding.
That said, I like his stance on the planks, too. He wants to give America universal health coverage, which is shaping up to be one of if not thee top issue of the campaign. Experience also states that traditionally, it's the southern states that win the White House. How long has it been since we had a President from north of the Mason-Dixon line?

Vilsack: Not a lot to say. Haven't done much reading up with him.

Reverend Al Sharpton... :scream: Yeah, just TELL him about separation of church and state!!!! :scream:

Senator Joe Biden. Don't like him. He's a hawk. I think we've had enough pugilistic types, haven't we? We need a socially liberal and financially conservative President.

The Repubs:
McCain: I liked him. He did his level best to kill BushCheney's torture bill. But he's a stealth conservative. He approves of the surge and that's what killed him for me.

Giuliani: I respected the guy. He did more for NYC on 9/11 than the whole of the Bush Administration did. He got New York standing tall and proud a month after the towers fell. BUT. I know a bunch of people who lived in the Big Apple under his watch as a mayor and they're all scared of him. I understand he has a horrible temper and he can be abusive. Smart, tough, dedicated, and boy does he have a reason to want Bin Ladin's liver and lights on a majolica platter. But I don't think we need an anti-arts bully in the White House.

The rest: They all know they're long shots so I'm not really paying much attention to them, save to get the real wingnuts and whackjobs on the radar and make sure they don't rise to the top.

Third Party: Define? Do you mean the Greens, the Libertarians, the Constitution Party?
Well, as much as I hate to say it, the Third Party in whatever flavour you see it, is shut out of the White House simply because of the Electoral College. As for the Libertarians, they never focused on the prize, all they're interested in is "sending a message." I voted Green in 2000 because I couldn't stomach either Bush nor Gore, and we all know what a fiasco that turned out to be. Libertarian is more like a way of politicking than a bonafide political party. IMO, it's the way the country should be, but we have the Two-Headed Monster, whether we like it or not. Personally I'd love to see the Electoral College jump on a slow boat to Antarctica, but that's not likely to happen in the next two years.

Okay. That's it from me. Discuss (again, civilly).
ImageImageImageImage
Teh_DarkJokerWolf
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 4997
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:54 pm
Mood: Disappointed

Post by Teh_DarkJokerWolf »

Honestly I don't really follow this..I've always been told that I shouldn't vote, but then again I am 22 now so I guess I could now, but I also guess it would mean reading up on the partys that are to be voted on :)
User avatar
MattSullivan
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1480
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 6:54 am
Location: AMERICA, bitches! :P

Post by MattSullivan »

Hey, whoever enforces immigration laws gets my vote.

And yeah, I'd love to see either a black man, or a woman as president. They certainly couldn't do any worse than the current administration
Image
ravaged_warrior
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1629
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 10:33 pm

Post by ravaged_warrior »

I'd personally like to be able to vote for either Obama or Edwards.

As for the whole black/woman thing, I don't see much importance politically, since their decisions aren't going to be indisputably better because of skin color or gender, but I can see it benefiting the country as a symbol of equality.
"We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some w**** he picked up in town."
-Jack Handey
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

Post by vrikasatma »

That was my thought. Their stands on the issues and plans once they hit the ground...two years from today? Yes!...are primary. The symbolism of public diversity is gravy.
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Darth Canis
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:23 pm
Location: Gainesville Florida

Post by Darth Canis »

So far i am liking Borak Obama, i have always kind of like mccain too but I really can't stomach republicans recently... What I want to see is what Boraks stance on the environment is. Environmental policy has always been the big pusher for me and the whole drilling in Alaska debate grrr. Yeah I voted green in the last election too lol. Couldn't stomach either canidate.
The little girl who always wanted to fly an x wing and be raised by wolves... Come to think of it she still does.
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

Post by vrikasatma »

MattSullivan wrote:Hey, whoever enforces immigration laws gets my vote.
Guess that wouldn't be Obama, then. He voted for the Guest Worker program and wants to give them Medicaid, Social Security and Welfare.

Uhmm....NO.

NO. :eyebrow:

NO!
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Darth Canis
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:23 pm
Location: Gainesville Florida

Post by Darth Canis »

:blink: I think i need to read up a little bit more....oh heck i might just vote green again lol. I guess as things get closer i will become more informed. Or.... John Stewart '08 woot :P
The little girl who always wanted to fly an x wing and be raised by wolves... Come to think of it she still does.
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

Post by vrikasatma »

I found a pretty good, thorough and unbiased site:

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

Been poring through it all evening, found I'm still a Kerryite.

I have to be honest: I met the guy, and all I could think was "Why aren't you President?"
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Post by Terastas »

I'm not even going to discuss the Republicans individually because, thanks to everything the Bush regime has done to screw over the entire planet (Iraq, Katrina, etc.), the Republicans barely have a chance at winning. The only Republicans that would have a chance at winning would be those that immediately distanced themselves from the Bush regime, but if you ask me, the last thing the Republican party wants is a free thinker (why do you think they nominated a guy that doesn't think at all?). If the party had half a brain, they'd nominate McCain, but right now the most likely candidate to me is Romney, a man who is practically the embodiment of crooked politics.

The Democrats:

Hillary Clinton:
Hillary is certainly a qualified candidate, but because of her direct association with Bill Clinton, she would be far too easy to antagonize. The Republicans, as I mentioned above, will be desperate in 2008, so they won't miss any opportunity to drill her about the Whitewater and Lawinksy scandals. She's a good candidate, and I have no doubt in my mind that there are enough people out there that want a woman president to put her in office, but she's also far too easy to slander. If George W. Bush could defeat John Kerry because the latter had Botox, a Republican candidate with a decent record could defeat Hillary Clinton just because she's married to Bill.

Barack Obama:
Right now, Obama seems like the most likely candidate. His race could prove equally effective as Clinton's gender, he's classy, intelligent, and can admit when he doesn't have the answers (in other words, the opposite of Bush). The biggest dilemma off the bat is his minority, but if the Republicans ever attempted to use that as a campaign edge, they'd be doing Obama a favor. The thing is that, while 9/10 Americans are racist, only 1/50 will admit that they are, so if the vote came down to a black man and a bigot, most Americans would rather be associated with the former.

His other issue is his lack of experience, but Obama makes up for it with his unique ability to bring people together. He may not be the most qualified, but he'll have the best cabinet you could ask for.

John Edwards:
Edwards is just as qualified as Clinton and Obama, maybe even more so, but he lack the charisma he'll need to win the election. The only time he ever really had my attention was during the 2004 VP debate, and in all fairness, it's easy to look good when you're sitting next to Cheney. Just like Al Gore, I think he needs to be somebody's Vice President before he can be considered a possible future president.

The Third Party:

Just like in previous elections, I don't think any of them will be possible winners, but it will be interesting to see who runs on the 3rd party. As I said above, the reputation of the Republican party has been irreversibly tarnished, so much so that the only Republican candidate that could have a chance at winning would be one with a history of opposing the Bush regime. The problem is that, as a result of the almost Big Brother-esque Bush policy of firing/oppressing anyone that disagrees, a lot of middle-ground Republicans, I am convinced, will be either be leaving the Republican party, either to switch to the Democrats or to run as a third party and/or Independent. It won't surprise me if the 2008 ballot has the names of more than one of Bush's former cabinet members on it.
User avatar
twirrlacurl
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: U.S. Chicago area

Post by twirrlacurl »

Maybe someone should have started this post with an un-biased opinion and described both parties candidates equally.

Personally I like none of the candidates.
Meet me on the tee, it's going down. Meet me on the green it's going down. Anywhere you meet me guaranteed its going down.
User avatar
psiguy
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:27 pm
Custom Title: The pack's Linux Nerd
Location: (A) - - (I am here) - - (B)
Contact:

Post by psiguy »

Personally, they all scare me to death. I'm not sure I'd vote for any of them.
...
I can say that these are democratic times though. Democrats seem like the lesser of two evils.
...
And when I say "two"... its that those running in the "other" category are less than noticed.
(exception being the Clinton vs. Bush Sr. election of '92 in which Ross Perot stole enough votes from Bush Sr. to allow Clinton to become president.)
www.psiguy.deviantart.com <-- My artwork and generalities.

May the force be with you!!!
User avatar
MattSullivan
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1480
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 6:54 am
Location: AMERICA, bitches! :P

Post by MattSullivan »

Say what you want about Clinton, but we had eight HUGE prosperous years under his watch.
Image
Fang
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: Hmmm..... Good question

Post by Fang »

*nods*

I think hillary would make a great president

but I'm torn between Obama, Edwards and Giuliani
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori :P
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Post by Terastas »

MattSullivan wrote:Say what you want about Clinton, but we had eight HUGE prosperous years under his watch.
*nods* The fact that he is best known for the Lewinsky scandal is the embodiment of injustice.
Set
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:34 pm
Custom Title: Devil in disguise
Gender: Male

Post by Set »

twirrlacurl wrote:an un-biased opinion
Opinions are always biased. That's what makes them opinions.
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

Post by vrikasatma »

I have to admit to a slanted opinion of the parties, but with the events of the past seven years, can anyone really blame that?

I'm holding my fingers crossed for Kerry but if he doesn't enter the race, I'm afraid I'd tip for Edwards over Hillary. She's good but she's a magpie magnet, and I'm somewhat concerned about her unbalanced stance on everything for the children. That's all well and good but what about their parents? Take care of the adults first, and the adults can take care of the children by themselves. And I got seriously pissed off when I read Obama voted to give Welfare, Medicaid and Social Security to illegal immigrants.

We had an interesting article in today's Op-Ed section of the paper. The writer suggested that the candidates not choose a running mate and whoever is defeated, gets to be Vice Pres. It's not a bad idea, the Constitution is okay with it, and there's legal precedent for a bipartisan administration. Lincoln was a Republican, and his vice president was a Democrat. And one that was antagonistic to him, at that.

I'm thinking, "Why not?" This election is shaping up as the most iconoclastic I can remember (and I've been paying attention for more than 35 years): we got at least one woman candidate (there's rumblings that Condi Rice might run...the very thought gives me another grey streak), two black candidates, a Mormon, and a bipartisan White House would be a built-in checks and balances. We know it works, we know it's legal. Thoughts on that?
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Ink
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:02 pm
Custom Title: A Fledgling Shovelbum - Pack Archaeologist & Cultural Anthropologist!

Post by Ink »

Right now? No idea.

I'm going to say one thing about Hillary - she terrifies me. Not because she's a woman but because she's a snake in the grass. She's turned New York State into a laughing stock in the Senate.

And while she's a bright woman she's not on the top of my list- using our state as a stepping stone and squishing us while she's at it? How pompous! But New York loves Hillary - though I find her dangerously well scripted and a threat to both liberty, identity, and the moral code. I wouldn't touch her even if she wore a shock collar - she could still turn on you with a twist of her words.

She spoke last year at our college - and boy she's good at what she does. I just wish she would not have made her speech about her when she was going to talk about the graduating class. Funny how that seemed to so beautifully slip her mind... and the crowds...

I really like Giuliani - why? Because I know the guy who worked directly under him during 9/11 (A professor at University teaching an Emergency Management as a graduate certification program was Giuliani's right hand man dealing with the issue).

Giuliani is charismatic, somewhat tempered sometimes, but in New York nobody's exactly quiet or sheepish. He'll get the job done. He makes a strong candidate - I'm just not 100% sure yet if he's the guy to lead the pack.

Ultimately - I'm for the Republicans because my big issue is with gun control; I don't want it. I have enough trouble establishing my 2nd Amendment rights in New York State. (DISCLAIMER: This, of course, is a huge-huge-huge debate I refuse to get into unless someone makes another thread, has read up on the subject, legislation, regulations, knows key terms about guns, gun functions, proper procedure for a trained official, civilian, and has fired a gun before. I won't dick around with hot air and my responses will come in the form of books and hand puppets. Fear the wrath of HAND PUPPETS!)

I suppose that's why I'm moving to Alaska or Vermont...

Yeah - I just can't wait for the real fishing begins and we'll see what really rolls about this next election. I need to look into the democrats and what exactly is going on in the playing field once 2008 rears it's fat head.
Lukas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1604
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 9:29 pm
Custom Title: living
Gender: Male
Mood: Indifferent
Location: Lakeland,Florida
Contact:

Post by Lukas »

as a modest republican the big favorites that would get my vote if i could vote would be
Rep.
McCain
and
Dem.
Barack Obama
Image
(for every afro avatar, a funky man loses his hair, please, think of undercover brother)
User avatar
MattSullivan
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 1480
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 6:54 am
Location: AMERICA, bitches! :P

Post by MattSullivan »

y know it's funny. NO ONE who dislikes Hillary Clinton can ever articulate exactly what it is they dislike about her. All I ever hear is "I don't like her" or "she scares me".

The woman wanted to give us health care. the Republicans vilified her for that. For HEALTH CARE?

They claim she's "too cold". HUH? I suppose I oughta come back by saying Bush is too stupid. Nixon was too crooked. Reagan was a LIAR ( iran contra anyone? )

Seriously. NO ONE has ever been able to give me a reason why Hillary is such a godawful person in their eyes.
Image
User avatar
Aki
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2595
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:06 pm
Custom Title: Wolfblood
Gender: Male
Location: Massachusetts

Post by Aki »

One thing I absolutely hate about being sixteen is I can't do s***-all when this stuff goes down.

Cheering for a candidate is worthless when you can't vote, afterall.

That said, I like Obama. He seems the most in-line with my own thoughts (not 100%, of course, but close enough and still has a chance at winning. I like some of Nader's stuff - but independents never really have a chance...)

Can't say I like Hilary or some other candidates due to positions on some issues (I particularly dislike Hilary for her take on violence in media.). But there are redeeming values to them.

Also, I think somethings up with that 'Issues' site. I kept getting a box prompting me to download something, and I of course, didn't, as trusting a random download isn't smart. Just a warning. Might be a virus or somethin'.
User avatar
Kaebora
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:51 pm
Custom Title: Werehare In Disguise
Gender: Male
Mood: RAR!
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Post by Kaebora »

I have been a republican for some time now... but I am having doubts. I'm going to take a serious look at what ideals these two groups are trying to bring into the federal government. As a college student, rising computer animation arstist, and possibly future small buisness owner, I will be looking closely at what issues they address that most ultimately affect my life and the lives of my family.

Undecided.
Lurking softly, reading your posts, loving your ideas...
-Kaebora
User avatar
Terastas
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 5193
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:03 pm
Custom Title: Spare Pelican
Gender: Male
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

Post by Terastas »

vrikasatma wrote:I'm holding my fingers crossed for Kerry but if he doesn't enter the race, I'm afraid I'd tip for Edwards over Hillary.
I'd like to support Kerry too, but if I learned anything from 2004, it's that, just like Hillary Clinton, he's too easy to antagonize over the dumbest of things. He's from Massachusetts, had some botox and his wife has a funny accent -- sad but true, that's all Bush needed to get reelected. He's a brilliant man, but he's too easy to fall victim to a mudslinging campaign of utter stupidity. :P
User avatar
vrikasatma
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 2062
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:59 am
Custom Title: Sometimes, ya just gotta say ... BLEEEE!!
Gender: Female
Additional Details: Digg: Gemfinder
Dragon Cave: http://dragcave.net/user/Xocowolf
Twitter: @Xocowolf
Mood: Busy
Location: EugeneOR
Contact:

Post by vrikasatma »

I didn't say I disliked Hillary. She is cold, but that's hardly a reason to *not* vote for her. Ever heard of "Cool" Calvin Coolidge? My reservations about her revolve around her heavily pro-child stance and, yes, I am concerned that she'll be a censor.

This isn't to say I'm anti-child or anti-family, but like I said before, it's *adults* that need to be governed. You can have all the services for "junior citizens" (her term) that money can buy, but if their parents are broke, taxed to death, overworked, underpaid and underinsured, then you're in a vicious cycle and the kids will suffer. Even nature agrees: children prosper when their parents and guardians prosper.

On the flipside, being staunchly pro-child could be a good thing. It means schools will get funded, funded, funded. California's gang culture is literally out of control because kids aren't engaged with the school communities so they turn to the streets and run wild. We only have 86% literacy in this country, Thailand has 100%. We're graduating people from universities who can't even find themselves on a map. That's not good.

My hope is that she'll be wise enough to see that kids can be taken care of if you set your sights higher and think about their parents. Hopefully, if she gets in, she'll balance it out.

Terastas: Bush won mostly on the "Christian values" vote. Also, keep in mind that neither Bush (or more importantly) nor Cheney will be running this time and I believe the frontrunner McCain is at least not adversarial to him (my feeling is that he'll win the GOP nomination). I'll have to read up and see if they've synched up or joined forces on any issues and legislation.

Aki: You're one election from being able to vote. Are you going to be 18 on or before October 2008? If so, you might even be able to vote. If not, oh well, you'll miss this Presidential/Senatorial election, but you'll be in line for the midterm election and as was recently demonstrated, a Representative/Gubernatorial election can be just as politically crucial.
I had no problem with the OnTheIssues page; didn't get a prompt to download anything, but there is a popup for Undertone Networks. Didn't wait around to see what it was, I just closed the window before it rezzed up. Then again, every computer's different...
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
deruty
Legendary
Legendary
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:05 pm

Post by deruty »

I've never really been a Democrat or a Republican. Personally I don't care much for politics, but when I "can" vote I will.. I just don't know who yet. If I could vote, I'm probably going to vote Obama as of right now. Mainly becuase....uhm....something....
My real online handle is Derutydragon
Post Reply