How painful should the shift be? And...

[Rosiewolf]

The first shift should hurt like hell. Because your body hasn't ever changed into a different form before. But after you have changed more and more times, the pain should not bother you so much. But if you fight it, I suppose it would hurt more.

[RedEye]

Let's take the concept of Shifting as a meatphor for any sort of extreme physical activity.
In that sense, I still remember my first forty kilometer march, with eighty pounds of kit and my M-14 as well ( and the ammo for it). I hurt like there was no tomorrow! My hair hurt! I hoped I'd just die right then and there.
Then, many weeks later, I and the platoon of which I was a member were involved with war games as a part of the final section of basic training.
After a fifty kilometer march, setting up a bivouac, and getting ready for maneuvers the next day; I couldn't sleep; not for the pain, but for the excitement! I hurt, yes; and I was tired--but it wasn't like the first march in the discomfort area, not at all!
Same thing in working out--a strenuous one will have you hurting a lot at first; but later you look for "the burn" and welcome it as proof you are accomplishing something desirable.
I suspect that Shifting is much like that- the actual pain changes as you are accustomed to it; and the percieved pain is now desired, as part of your accomplishing a change from Smooth Human to WolfKindred as a Werewolf...unless you had other plans for the evening. Oops!
So, it changes, but it doesn't; if you get my meaning.

Exactly. It never STOPS hurting...but you build up an endurance for it after a while, and eventually you may just stop worrying about how much it hurts anymore, even if it still does. You feel GREAT when it's done, so it's worth it.


...or like going to the chiropractor...

"...OW !!!!..." ... *relaxes* ... "...Ahhhhhhhhh..."

EXACTLY!

[Silver]

For those who don't remember, we discussed this before and came to a conclusion. Nothing wrong with re-discussing...in fact I think it's important to look an new views. The funny thing is that it seems to be coming back to the first conclusion

Here's how I remember it:

It's a lot like any other major physical exertion, only more so. You hurt like crazy and it's really hard (sometimes fatally so) the first time.

As you and your body learn to deal with the change, like a marathon runner , you get adjusted. You learn to control the body, rather than it control you. Eventually, you can change parts as well as all of your body. It always takes concious effort, but it does get easier. A change of your hand might be the equivilant of running a quarter mile. Effort, but for the marathon runner, always possible. A full change might be the equivilant of a half mile for the VERY experienced Were. You could certainly jump into a fight right after but it would be taxing on your system and you would tire sooner than normal even in Gestalt form.

A full change is always difficult and takes a lot of effort, like a marathon. It will always have its aches and pains.... but the results are worth it and the
endorphines are a rush every time. It's not a runner's high, it's a shifter's high.

So what about that 75lb. paraplegic that's been insulting you? Even a marathon runner would work a hefty amount of anger out running a quarter mile. It would take something significant to sustain the anger after changing (IMO). So I think the guy is safe unless he was very, very insulting, or continues to egg it on after the change.


That's how I remember it windiing up the first time

[Vuldari]

For those who don't remember, we discussed this before and came to a conclusion. Nothing wrong with re-discussing...in fact I think it's important to look an new views. The funny thing is that it seems to be coming back to the first conclusion.

Silver...all of your recent responses in this section have seemed to suggest that there can only be ONE answer to all of these questions.

The title of this section is "What should a werewolf be?"...not , "What should the Werewolves in Freeborn be". We are considering ALL opinions, and ALL possibilities...not just the ones that are applicable to "Freeborn". (Not that we CAN'T discuss that here...but we are talking about other ideas as well.)

It seems to me, However, that you are anxious to talk more about the film. Perhaps you should discuss with Anthony the possibility of bringing back the "Silvers Corner" section. (Making it viewable to the rest of us again. Right now, only Moderators can see it.)

The discussions there (or rather, in the companion "Responses to Silvers Corner" section) hopefully would be more focused, useful, and relevant to you.


On your conclusions...that sounds about right (to me)...

[RedEye]

If some 75 pound paraplegic had the liver to keep insulting me after I shifted (playing in character), I'd have to give him a lot of respect.

Anyone who kept mouthing off to a Were' after said Were' shifted either has something very important to say or has nerves of steel...

Or is blind....(forgot about that one)

Fact is, that a Werewolf would be more inclined to listen to someone who didn't run away screaming, "Cue the extras, Cue the extras;" or whatever it is that people yell when somebody goes all fuzzy and toothy right in front of them- simply because they would seem to be really invested in what they were saying.
And it would appear that the WolfKin in this picture are of the intelligent type, as opposed to the "RrrrAwRRR" folks that seem to get all the juicy parts in Horror Movies these days.
That's important. In going against "type"; Mr. Brownrigg is creating a different type of Werewolf- a more believable type of Were' than the usual genre' we see lurching and clawing his or her way across the screen and into the state of mundainty that Werewolves seem to have become these days.
I saw Blood and Chocolate, and it was so far beyond bad.... Multi-million dollar triteness.
Of course we come to the same conclusions as before: We are being moved by reason, not sensationalism.
I hope Free Born gets funded soon...I really would like to see some realistic Werewolves!

[White Paw]

it should be to the point where you would want to kill yourself.....screaming in absolute agony and pain

[Vuldari]

it should be to the point where you would want to kill yourself.....screaming in absolute agony and pain

If it is your first shift and you are afraid of it and/or resisting it...yeah...I think that is probably about what it would feel like.

In time, if you learn to work WITH the change instead of Against it, and stop panicking, I think one should definitely be able to do it without all the screaming and agony...but it would still hurt like nothing else. ...you would just learn to deal with it....hopefully.

Fighting it all the time would surely make the experience agonizing enough to drive almost anyone to madness. (...or suicide...)

[Silver]

Vuldari, Whoa, I guess you told me!

I'm thinking that you don't know or remember the history of this website and who I am.

To start: I am one of the two writers of Freeborn, one of the original members of the Pack, and one of the original founders of this site.

The purpose of this website, and this particular forum "What should a Werewolf be " was SPECIFICALLY to formulate ideas and concepts for Freeborn. The point was to gather a consensus, based on the exchanges here. We wanted to have a movie that reflected the views of the fans. It was, and is, a place to birth ideas, solidify, and re-birth concepts.

WE take any and all opinions and ideas. If someone wants to bring up things that were discussed before, WE don't have any objections at all.

I know that this site has grown tremendously due to the people who want to share ideas and opinions, and just have a cyber gathering place in general for Weres. Way beyond anything we dreamed, that's for sure. It's grown into a community that we never hoped or dreamed could happen. It's way more than we originally conceived, and I hope it continues to grow.

As I wrote, (and you put it in a text box in your reply), I think it's important to go through these concepts as new members join, and as new ideas occur. The original purpose of THIS forum has been added to, stretched, flavored, and given extra life. But the original purpose still stands.

Because we need it to. As I am in the process of writing a sequel (just in case), I plan to use this forum as it was originally intended. If that bothers you, I'm sorry. I still need the opinions that flow, and at times I need to see how people see those old ideas at this time.

WE created this site as a forum to bring the fans what they want in a movie. I will continue to ask opinions (as I have recently), and remind folks of previous conclusions. It's been done with links to previous threads, pictures and links to other sites, etc. We like it!

Make no mistake, Vuldari, anyone can talk about Freeborn or any other movie any place they like on this site. And they can re-discuss ideas.

Anyone. Including me.

[lupine]

Well said Silver. Not knocking you Vuldari, your entitled to your opinion, but I've seen a lot of people (mostly noobs) steamrollered lately for not using the search engine before posting a topic. There is at the end of the day, only so many subjects to discuss, eg Transformation, temperament, appearance... the list DOES go on, but is not endless. So we do, as new members arrive and want to join in, have to cover old ground. For someone like yourself Vuldari, who has been here from pretty much the start I'm guessing, this may seem like a chore. But for someone like myself, who only joined last August, I'm unable to trawl through all of the past posts to see if my opinion has been expressed before.

[Vuldari]

...wha?...

Silver...where have you been since 2005?

Do you think there is a completely separate section for "Freeborn" for no good reason? Have you not noticed that we are hosting and supporting two other budding film projects here as well?

YES...the entire forum, and the "What should a Werewolf be" section was originally intended to only pertain to Freeborn...back in 2004/05...

All of that changed when we became "THE PACK".


NOW, when we have a discussion in THIS section, the discussions we have (unless specifically said otherwise) are general Pot-Luck opinions, which can apply to Freeborn, or H.O.D., or Camp Lycanthrope, or theoretical future projects that may or not even be films, or even just general opinion with no specific project focus.


I'm just really confused as to why you don't seem to remember that. It was Anthony HIMSELF that officially declared that "The Pack" is not exclusively about "Freeborn" any more.

...I'm just saying...you have entire sections with your name in the title...I don't see why you are interrupting our NON-Freeborn Specific discussions to tell us what we have already "DECIDED" upon. The ideas and possibilities we are discussing here apply to projects and stories beyond just Freeborn.


Now...if you want to start a new thread specifically pertaining to "Freeborn", or wish to invite us to participate in a discussion in the "THE FILM - FREEBORN" section, specifically in the sub-forum specifically set aside for YOU, the co-writer of the screenplay...with your name in it : "Silvers Corner", and the companion "Replies to Silvers Corner" sections, by all means do so. We will all be more than happy to help and join the focused discussion.


Yes...absolutely...the website from the beginning, and until the film is actually released and beyond will support and inspire the progress of the "Freeborn" film project as part of our founding purpose.

...but we have diversified since our founding. We have an entire SUB-SECTION devoted to discussions specifically focused on "Freeborn", comprised of no less than 10 sub-sub-categories on the topic. (some not visible to the public)


...But, all by it's lonesome, at the top of the page, we have just one little section that is open to ALL werewolf related ideas and opinions, including ones that are clearly poor fit's for 'Freeborn', but could inspire great future works of literary fiction, art, or even entirely different films, from Bloody Horror, to outrageous Cartoon Comedy.

And that is the one where you have chosen to interrupt and tell us we are not fulfilling the "Purpose of this website"...


There are TEN sub-categories for that...and we have been using them. This is the ONE section where we discuss Werewolf ideas that DON'T need to apply to Freeborn, but instead whatever we decide is interesting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry if this has come off sounding like some kind of attack Silver...that was not my intent. You just seem to be a little lost and confused, and I'm trying to clear things up as best as I can.


If you think that some of the ideas we have been talking about in here just wont work in "Freeborn"...you are right...because they were never intended to. Many ideas are for another day...another project...another story...OR JUST FOR FUN.

[Midnight]

... Easy on, Vuldari. Even though "Freeborn" has its own section, why shouldn't Silver still contribute to the discussion? It's not as if she's trying to shut it down... after all, as even you have quoted:

Nothing wrong with re-discussing...in fact I think it's important to look an new views.

Put it in perspective. "Freeborn" is going to be a major motion picture. In comparison, my entire contribution to the genre is a NaNoWriMo project that is so poorly thought out I haven't even shared it with anyone here. So, if anything, Silver has much more right to put her opinions here than I do.

And that is the one where you have chosen to interrupt and tell us we are not fulfilling the "Purpose of this website"...

I honestly don't see that in what Silver writes:

The original purpose of THIS forum has been added to, stretched, flavored, and given extra life. But the original purpose still stands.

I take that to mean something along the lines of "this isn't just about "Freeborn" any more, but it's still a place for people to share with others what we want a werewolf to be".

[Vuldari]

Sorry...please don't misunderstand...


I would very much like to hear what Silvers beyond Freeborn ideas are as well. I ENTHUSIASTICALLY welcome her to join in on any and all conversations that she would like to be involved in, or has any opinions and/or insight upon.


It is just the undertone and phrasing of her posts that makes me think she is confused. Her phrasing seems to suggest that she thinks each of these discussions here are attempting to actually come upon a SINGLE CONCLUSION.

In reality, most of the time, more-accurately, we are weighing the popularity and feasibility of NUMEROUS possibilities, without ever finally deciding upon JUST ONE.

Very often, the progress of the conversations will lead into discussions about how one idea may be more "Realistic" than the other, (citing logical reasons why), or why a different "Less Realistic" idea is better to use, (again citing all the popular reasons why), but even though we may be debating over which we feel is the BETTER idea, the discussions rarely seem to be leading up to any "Decisions" being made about any project in particular based upon that discussion.

This is more of an "Open Discussion" aria, than a "Decision Making" one.

When we want to make a final decision about what we would like to see in "Freeborn", or "H.O.D." or the format we would like to see Matt create "Camp Lycanthrope" in, we post those opinions in the appropriate sections.

...but we are making no Decisions here... (In THIS section)

...merely "weighing the possibilities".




...RIGHT?

[Scott Gardener]

Relax, everyone! Have some coconut...

Silver summarized what we had decided the last time. That's hardly the same as hijacking the topic. (There's a pun in there somewhere; extra ducky to anyone who can spot it.)