Okies..Check out this werewolf expert..*rolls eyes* >_>

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

This guy on DA he draws really impressive werewolves IMHO..Check out this though..


Here's wat I said..

Hiya!!1 I remember u now!! I saw one of ur art books at Borders ^^ I loved your werewolf design, I do wonder though why you choose not to give ur werewolves any tails?

and he said ((and I don't know which order he said this in))

Because werewolves don't have tails.

Just to back up my previous statement... since this is the second time you've asked me about this... The Wolf Man, The Howling, An American Werewolf in London, Oliver Reed in Curse of the Werewolf... Michael Landon in I Was a Teenage Werewolf... Wrightson's illustrations in Cycle of the Werewolf... in all the cool werewolf stuff, you never see a tail.... even in my old "nonfiction" occult books on werewolves I've had since I was a kid... it says one of the ways you can tell if an especially large, ferocious four-legged wolf might be a werewolf is that it will have no tail.

And why is this such a big deal?

This guy..I dunno why..It actually made me growl abit... How the hell does he know this?! Is he an expert on werewolves now? Just because all these other werewolves had no tail..HOLLYWOOD werewolves mind you, story books...PEOPLE GOT LAZY!! THAT'S IT!! How hard it it to sew on a tail? geez.. This guy either knows something or he is something!! Pft...or he's just a loon..


This one really got me an I quote again:

one of the ways you can tell if an especially large, ferocious four-legged wolf might be a werewolf is that it will have no tail.

A werewolf would stand out from a normal wolf any day..Whether it's a full wolf form werewolf. It would definately have a different body build than any NORMAL wolf..It'd have a tail..

Werewolves don't have tails?! What?! The idea is absurd..It's insulting to me for many a reason..One me being a WOLF Therian..I'm not afraid to say..As I'm sure there are plenty of folks on here who can relate to this..Anyways what is your input on this?


Here's the guys Page..It's still on his front page this lil debate..Ugh it just irks me...

http://bryanbaugh.deviantart.com/

[Vuldari]

As popular as the idea of Werewolves WITH Tails are around here...the guy has a valid point.


Prior to the Furry/Therian movements, it was common knowledge that Werewolves DON'T have tails. In fact, in more than a few traditional legends, that is a point that was specifically brought up as a significant, defining mark of a Werewolf...as one of the primary ways to tell a Werewolf apart from just an ordinary wolf.


...you can't really blame him for preferring to stick to the traditions he knows. There is no need for anger.

[ShadowFang]

His werewolf drawings aren't even that great. There are tons of better drawing out there already. He's most likely the guy who draws (lol) plantigrade werewolves. HAH!

[PariahPoet]

Feh. He doesn't have to be so arrogant about it.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

Eh..he's basing his therioes off Hollywood, story books...If I remember correctly Vuldari you like werewolves with tails too right? Z again brought this up about a human already having a tail bone it just makes sense!!..Why would it not curve out into a tail? Especially if that person is shifting into a wolf like creature? He's not looking at it scientifically..Common sense though even would tell you this..That's how it would be, how it would happen..Why does he believe this so much? Actaully ShadowFang I've seen his books, He does draw Digigrade werewolves, but still..

Edit. The guy was pretty rude. Like he knows everything there is..Just cause he made a book with werewolf drawings in it..Big deal..A person who would draw them should look at all the facts before stating such claims..

[Doruk Golcu]

Now now now... I think the guy has a valid point here: Why is it such a big deal?

I myself like the aesthetics of a werewolf with tail as well. But this doesn't mean a well-drawn werewolf without a tail (or at least not a visible enough tail) won't work. The guy gives good examples of this.

It is true that some old European legends specificaly point out that the werewolf does not have a tail. It is one of the tell-tale signs that the creature is a werewolf rather than a regular wolf. Some other legends claim they have human faces. Notice that the guy is not saying storybooks, but occult books. He does have basis in legend, in fact.

Now, obviously, neither he nor any of us has seen werewolves. All we have at hand are legends and interpretations by artists or filmmakers. Which interpretation we will go with is a personal choice. He makes the mistake of saying that his interpretation is not an interpretation but the way that werewolves actually are, which is silly, but he is free to draw them without tail and think that werewolves without tail are better/cooler/whatever...

[Anubis]

No werewolves do have tails, at lest in mythology.

In every medieval wood cut i seen of werewolves i see tails attached to their butts!

It's just a legend that was warped by the passing of time.

[Shadow Wulf]

Eh..he's basing his therioes off Hollywood, story books...If I remember correctly Vuldari you like werewolves with tails too right? Z again brought this up about a human already having a tail bone it just makes sense!!..Why would it not curve out into a tail? Especially if that person is shifting into a wolf like creature? He's not looking at it scientifically..Common sense though even would tell you this..That's how it would be, how it would happen..Why does he believe this so much? Actaully ShadowFang I've seen his books, He does draw Digigrade werewolves, but still..

Edit. The guy was pretty rude. Like he knows everything there is..Just cause he made a book with werewolf drawings in it..Big deal..A person who would draw them should look at all the facts before stating such claims..

Sabre, you seem to act like you know all about werewolves and that your an expert yourself. As far as I can tell only fanbase drawings of werewolves have tails. I love werewolves, tails or no tails, as long as the whole body looks good. He does make good a point and I agree with Vuldari. Why are the werewolf and furry fans that love tails make such a big deal about it when the ones that doesnt like tails dont? I noticed this quite a bit, its almost as if the tail lovers are indirectly trying to ban all werewolf drawings without tails. Relax, he likes hes werewolves without tails...then let him be. Like Vuldari said, dont blame him for believing in traditional legends, it doesnt make you (or Z...) right for forcing your beliefs on him, thats what he believes, learn to accept it.

Who knows? Theres probably werewolf fans out there that hate tails are offended by people like us who say they should because its (scientifcly)more plausible, or so we believe.

No werewolves do have tails, at lest in mythology.

In every medieval wood cut i seen of werewolves i see tails attached to their butts!

It's just a legend that was warped by the passing of time.

Most werewolf images of during med-evil times and before didnt have tails. It wasnt untill after the med-evil ages I think is when some people decided to add tails. the pictures you saw might just have been a regular wolf.

The whole tails and no tails is a mix emotions. And we just have to learn to live with it, I hate it when one side think they are right when they have nothing to back it up with.

[RedEye]

While everybody else was fussing, I went and looked at some of the old woodcuts (or pictures of them anyway) from the Medieval period and a bit later and found out the following:
Werewollves had tails until 1935, when Lon Chaney Jr played "The Wolfman.
Every single picture pre-Hollywood showed Werewolves had something sticking out of their butts; and I'll bet it was a tail!
Now, it's O.K. to portray Werewolves as tailless: they are a subspecies that got crossed with a Welch Corgi a few centuries back.
As to why not in the Movies? Sabre: you've built enough Suits to know how hard it is to make a real looking tail that moves like it's alive and not just a stuffed bit of fabric.
Hollywood didn't want to go to that bother...

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

Sabre, you seem to act like you know all about werewolves and that your an expert yourself. As far as I can tell only fanbase drawings of werewolves have tails. I love werewolves, tails or no tails, as long as the whole body looks good. He does make good a point and I agree with Vuldari. Why are the werewolf and furry fans that love tails make such a big deal about it when the ones that doesnt like tails dont? I noticed this quite a bit, its almost as if the tail lovers are indirectly trying to ban all werewolf drawings without tails. Relax, he likes hes werewolves without tails...then let him be. Like Vuldari said, dont blame him for believing in traditional legends, it doesnt make you (or Z...) right for forcing your beliefs on him, thats what he believes, learn to accept it.

Who knows? Theres probably werewolf fans out there that hate tails are offended by people like us who say they should because its (scientifcly)more plausible, or so we believe.

You know what..I DON'T ACT..I happen to know facts about werewolves Shadow Wulf..But I rather keep them to myself, Hence I hardly ever post in What should a werewolf be section..I know alot more than you could ever possibly know, that's the only reason I posted this here..I have good reason to keep what I know to myself Shadow Wulf..This topic was posted for others to see an Of course I KNEW somebody would try to throw it back in my face..I can only laugh at that..ha..ha..This thread can go where it wants. I said my piece..

[DarkShadow]

bleh... hollywood it doesnt make sence to not give werewolves tails, but then again, I am just saying that.

and Sabre has rights to posting what she believs as well as everyone else

[Shadow Wulf]

When you say facts I hope you meant as in just history of werewolves mythology.
And RedEye, could you give me the links to your source.

And Sabre you dont have to be so hostile towards me. I just think its wrong to argue someone about something like wether werewolves should have tails or not, they arent even real as far as I can tell. To me it feels like trying to spread a religion.

Im not againts your beliefs Sabre, and you can post your oppinions all you want and I encourage you to. But is it a crime to post mines or anyone elses to post an oppinion aswell? Even if it does conflict with yours? That just makes it a more interesting topic to have. This forum has been dead for a while and thanks to you we have a little kick back in here. its not much fun if everyone agrees with what ones saying.

[Amoux]

but nobody has been born with pointy ears or a long muzzle.

I was born with a pointy ear.

[Shadow Wulf]

[PariahPoet]

[White Paw]

[Amoux]

Well, I was going to say this in my previous post, but I'll just put it here.


In my own personnel opinion, I think werewolves should have tails, I like them with tails. Its just my opinion, I wouldn't even call it a belief just an opinion.

Sabre, what is it about werewolves you think we don't already know? Please, enlighten us if you have any info that we don't already know, can't find in a book, or online.

[Timber-WoIf]

in his own mind, he's an expert. But really, its impossible to be an expert on something imaginary

[Doberman]

Sabre, you seem to act like you know all about werewolves and that your an expert yourself. As far as I can tell only fanbase drawings of werewolves have tails. I love werewolves, tails or no tails, as long as the whole body looks good. He does make good a point and I agree with Vuldari. Why are the werewolf and furry fans that love tails make such a big deal about it when the ones that doesnt like tails dont? I noticed this quite a bit, its almost as if the tail lovers are indirectly trying to ban all werewolf drawings without tails. Relax, he likes hes werewolves without tails...then let him be. Like Vuldari said, dont blame him for believing in traditional legends, it doesnt make you (or Z...) right for forcing your beliefs on him, thats what he believes, learn to accept it.

Who knows? Theres probably werewolf fans out there that hate tails are offended by people like us who say they should because its (scientifcly)more plausible, or so we believe.

You know what..I DON'T ACT..I happen to know facts about werewolves Shadow Wulf..But I rather keep them to myself, Hence I hardly ever post in What should a werewolf be section..I know alot more than you could ever possibly know, that's the only reason I posted this here..I have good reason to keep what I know to myself Shadow Wulf..This topic was posted for others to see an Of course I KNEW somebody would try to throw it back in my face..I can only laugh at that..ha..ha..This thread can go where it wants. I said my piece..

What stuff about werewolves do you know that we don't? I agree with Amoux, if you have any info that you think we can't easily find, then please tell us.
But Joker, you make it sound like werewolves are real( Well, the physical shape shifting ones).
Telling Shadow Wulf that you know a whole lot more is completely ignorant; when you don't know what(or how much) he knows about werewolves in the first place!

[Vuldari]

What this all seems to be boiling down to is...no one of us (not here in the pack, nor the artist in question), is intimately familiar with every werewolf story and legend ever told or written.

All of our opinions and experience is based upon the first few that we ever heard, and those that we have encountered since.


In classical mythology, some Werewolves had tails, and some did not.


Though it could take me more time than I feel like spending right now looking for a traceable source, I know for a fact that I have read, heard and seen history and stories about werewolves, predating Lon Chaney Jr's film by at least a century or three, that described the appearance of a wild wolf behaving strangely, and lacking a tail, was an almost sure sign of a WEREWOLF.

I can even picture in my mind the illustrations, (originally printed in a Cryptzoology journal in the 17-1800's), I saw, showing how a mans body resided within the skin of the beast, (the artists sense of proportion and scale was very questionable) and had notes highlighting the lack of a tail on the creature, and I'm pretty sure I've heard the same thing elsewhere, which solidified that notion in my mind that old werewolves did NOT have tails.

...but then, clearly I have not read and heard them ALL.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

*sighs* I called no one any names, but people are ready to start calling me names...Geez..Even the noob who just got here..Geez..This is awful I shouldn't have said or posted anything..This subject is way to personal for my liking..I don't call people names on here..I may speak outta line but I have NEVER called anyone any names..This topic here just proved to me that, I've been wasting my time an art here.. Anyways even if I told you what I knew what would that prove? Would you believe any of it? NO!! It dun matter..like I said I'm done here..You want to call me names, call me names..have fun..

[Aki]

Now now now... I think the guy has a valid point here: Why is it such a big deal?

I myself like the aesthetics of a werewolf with tail as well. But this doesn't mean a well-drawn werewolf without a tail (or at least not a visible enough tail) won't work. The guy gives good examples of this.

It is true that some old European legends specificaly point out that the werewolf does not have a tail. It is one of the tell-tale signs that the creature is a werewolf rather than a regular wolf. Some other legends claim they have human faces. Notice that the guy is not saying storybooks, but occult books. He does have basis in legend, in fact.

Now, obviously, neither he nor any of us has seen werewolves. All we have at hand are legends and interpretations by artists or filmmakers. Which interpretation we will go with is a personal choice. He makes the mistake of saying that his interpretation is not an interpretation but the way that werewolves actually are, which is silly, but he is free to draw them without tail and think that werewolves without tail are better/cooler/whatever...

Agreed. It's not a big deal at all and this thread seems like a bit of an overreaction. One can have their own intrepretation of a mythical creature, afterall. Or a real one. It's art afterall. One needn't adhere to reality or legend.

[Shadow Wulf]

Joker, you should have no reason to be angry. We respect your oppinion and we love it when you tell us these kinds of things. we all agree to disagree at one thing or another, thats all. This is really a trivial thing to get upset over. We should just let thing whole thing blow over. And please dont threat to leave or say that we are all a waste of your time, I know you dont mean it because you love us and we love you. Vuldari have mentioned things that some pack members disagreed almost immediatly. But it usually ends before you know it and life goes on.

And I thought you would enjoy debating over this. I mean I havent had a talk like this on here for a long time, we need more things to talk about, even if it means debating (or argueing) over it. I enjoyed the talk I had in this thread, I was waiting for over a week to have something to debate about. It was just feeling.....dull for a while. Atleast this was more interesting.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

don't mind debates..The name callin has gotta go..That's not KOOL at all..THAT'S why I'm angry..I hate being called names..That Crap is for school..Not for adults..When some one calls me names that throws me over the edge..I'm pissed off now..Screw this crap..I think that's plenty enough reason for me to be mad..

[Shadow Wulf]

Oh you mean dobermen, calling you ignorant! Is that it?

Well I agree with you there joker. But you shouldnt listen to him (or her)

Doberman, you havent even been here that long and you so please dont call names to a veteran pack member. It doesnt look well.