Body Condition Vs "THE BITE"

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
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Post by Figarou »

Apokryltaros wrote:
Figarou wrote:
Interesting stuff. Mmmmm...milk!! Image

Heh, I wonder if I should add that wolf icon to the list? :D


I know milk is also used to pass protection to the young to fight diseases.
It's not so much as the milk itself, as mother's milk contains antibodies and vitamins that are passed on to the baby.
A motherly payload of love, so to speak.
yes, thats what I said. I said that. That I said, I think? :?
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Post by Vicious »

A virus? A curse? I always like dot think of it as a blessing, or heritage.

Being human is the curse. Consider that, and you will see what many therianthropes think.
Beauty isn't human.
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Post by ABrownrigg »

(points his finger to his nose).... That is indeed what some of the characters feel. It's a blessing... not a curse. And for many, the ultimate vacation.. get away from taxes, backstabbing, lying, and humanity altogether.
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Post by Apokryltaros »

ABrownrigg wrote:(points his finger to his nose).... That is indeed what some of the characters feel. It's a blessing... not a curse. And for many, the ultimate vacation.. get away from taxes, backstabbing, lying, and humanity altogether.
Um, what about the fleas?
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Post by WolvenOne »

Yeah, give a person enough horrible experiences with people and ultimatly things like flea's won't be a big deal. Though I can see a mostly wild werewolf occasionally meeting up with a city wolf to trade pine-cones for flea collars. ;)
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Post by Apokryltaros »

WolvenOne wrote:Yeah, give a person enough horrible experiences with people and ultimatly things like flea's won't be a big deal. Though I can see a mostly wild werewolf occasionally meeting up with a city wolf to trade pine-cones for flea collars. ;)
Apparently, you have yet to experience the abject, unmitigated pain, and misery, if not flat-out mind-rending horror that is being infested with a swarm of blood-thirsty fleas in the summer time.
Lawyers can starve to death, fleas don't need to.
Give me lawyers over fleas any day.
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Post by WolvenOne »

Nope, but I have experienced the unmitigated horror of Mosquito season in Alaska. Oh yeah sure you can slap em, but for every one you kill there's a million more. Plus the Mosquito's in Alaska are huge, there's an old joke that the railroad company used to pay people for thier stingers so they could use them as railroad spikes.

Yet another story

An army airmans plane crashed in Alaska and his Perachute broke causing him to break both legs upon impact. When he was rescued a few hours later and asked what the worst part was, he replied, "the mosquito's."
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Post by Figarou »

ABrownrigg wrote:(points his finger to his nose).... That is indeed what some of the characters feel. It's a blessing... not a curse. And for many, the ultimate vacation.. get away from taxes, backstabbing, lying, and humanity altogether.
Yes, thats true..

.......but then again.....a new set of problems has risen. Now that character must learn to live in secrecy. He can't expose his werewolfism to the public. If that werewolf can't control his secrecy, the others may do something harsh to him. Death.
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Post by Vuldari »

So many issues to cover...Image

Before I say anything, I have to repeat that all I can do is provide my own opinion on how I think it would work. ...which will vary and contradict some other opinons.

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On WHAT TRAITS will pass from a werewolf to the newly bitten:

I don't follow the "Carbon Copy", idea at all. That would suggest that the persons DNA in every cell of their body would be re-written. I don't see it that way at all.

As I see it, the Werewolf contagion would not overwrite a persons genitc code, but rather, ADD to it. (Like a "Patch" or a "Plug In" for a computer program.) Only the information about how and where hair, muscle, skin, bone, etc. should grow, and how it should be re-absorbed (where neccesary) would be added.

The Werewolf Virus/Contagion would be Gender Neutral (NO Trans-Gender TFs), and would contain some "Cosmetic" / "Strain Specific" trait coding, but it would be passive, in a sense, so that, (depending on the individual), the person MIGHT inherit the Common Fur Color (for thier wolf form) of the perticular line of Werewolf that bit him/her, but it would also be possible for the persons own exiting genetics to override that perticular gene and keep their existng Hair color as their Fur color.

[Side Note: Hair and Fur ARE the same thing. The only difference with Human head hair is that it is Hair that does not stop growing, like normal leg or arm hair/fur.] {Side, Side Note: I actually have stray hairs on both arms that grow long and thick like my head hair. I've never heard of such a thing, but I have them. ...Long arm hairs...}

I also believe that a "Family" of werewolf would evolve/mutate over time, just like any other species, so that the decendants of a single werewolf, seperated by continents for hundreds or thousands of years would develop region-specific traits different from each other. (So...the American Werewolf clan and the Australian Clan could both have originated from the same French Werewolf hundreds of years ago, and yet, a trained eye could tell which clan a Werewolf came from based on the texture of the fur/ Thickness of the claws/ ETC. because they each developed unique "mutations" over the years.)

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On unique reactions from the "infected" and whether they would DIE, be IMMUNE, shift FASTER or have DELAYED reactions:

As has been discussed before, I believe that an infected individual could very easily DIE from the infection rather than become a Werewolf.

The first way would be the bodys reaction to the foreign invader. The Human body's capacity to heal and protect itself is truely remarkable...but it is also an imperfect system. Very often, (such as is the case with "Allergies" and other ailments), the body's reaction to an irritant is actually far more destructive and lethal than the substance itself. So, a person could die because their body's intense and self-destructive attempt to rid itself of the contagion before it takes hold. (The Human immune system IS that stupid sometimes. It does not know that it should STOP if the increased bloodflow to an infected aria is giving the body a lethal FEVER, for example)

The Second way would, of course, be at the moment of the persons first shift. If the persons body is weak is some way (due to AGE, Disease, Injury, etc.) then the process of intense, accelerated growth, hormone production, as well as the stretching and constricting of Vital organs durring the re-shaping of the body, could easily cause the person to have a stroke, a heart attack, go into shock, or who knows what other ways a person can die in such moments of extreme trauma. (I am not a doctor, so I don't really know)

Some, I imagine, could be immune or resistant to the contagion, which could result in the infected person having a delayed transformation, or perhaps never contracting Lycanthropy at all. That would totally depend on many different variables, such as the amount of the contagion/virus intriduced at the point of infection, the condition of the infectee at the time (Sick, Injured, Healthy? A person who is exposed to normal viruses and toxins on a regular basis would be more resistant, as thier immune system would be on constant "high alert"), as well as specific bio-chemical/ genetic qualities of the individual, such as blood/hormone conditions could make it easier, more difficult or impossible for the contagion to spread properly throughout the body.

As for SUPER ACCELERATED shifting...I just don't see it happening AT ALL. There is just WAY too much stuff that has to happen in the body for it to happen that fast. The body would have to be "Primed" first. A person would need to build up a store of specific minerals, protiens and chemicals in their bodies in order to make the Shifting process possible. (Werewolf Cells need Fuel to grow and do their thing)

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On "PERFECTION":

I think what Figarou was trying to ask is... "Are Werewolves Flawless?"...or..."Are a Humans biological shortcommings Fixed when they become a Werewolf?"

...for example...Would "near-sighted" humans gain corrected 20-20 vision after becoming a Werewolf? Are Blood Diseases "Cured" by Lycanthropy? "Are arthritis, degenrative bone diseases, hormonal imbalances, skin disorders, hair loss, and/or Birth Defects FIXED when one becomes a Werwolf?"

... that is a really tough call. I think it would vary from condition to condition and situation to situaltion. Degenerative conditions might be corrected every time the person shifts, with the body returning itself to the form their genetics say it should be. ...unless it is the kind of degenerative condition that get's WORSE with the process of the body's cells dying off and replacing themselves, in which case, shifting would actually Accelerate the process. (...I'm not sure, but I think that some common ailments of AGING work that way...making repeated regeneration a BAD thing...)

Also...if the persons "near-sightedness", or "blood disease" or whatever is part of their genetics, then it may just remain a part of them as a Werwolf as well.

...but then, the Werwolf part of them would have it's own traits as well, but what exactly they would be is a matter of opinoin.

EYES: Wolves have poor vision (in terms of "focus"). Therefore, would a persons vision "degrade" while in wolf form, being more like a natural wolves vision...or Is a Werwolf Different in that respect. Maybe Werwolves actually have "Exelent" vision, unlike their ferral conterparts. That would make them more impressive. ...but less like natural Wolves.

MUSCLE: Again...Wolves are not Largely muscular, so If Werewolves are more like real wolves, they would be very lean. However, popular opinion invisions Werewolves as being huge, powerful beasts. So which is it? More Imressive...or More Natural?


...that's all I can think of right now. Did I miss anything?

(once again, this is all just MY Opinion, as that is all I can give.)
Please Forgive the Occasional Outburst of my Inner Sage ... for he is Oblivious to Sarcasm, and not Easily Silenced.

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Post by Howling Fan »

He's a thorough guy, that Vuldari! :P
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Post by Figarou »

Howling Fan wrote:He's a thorough guy, that Vuldari! :P
Nope...didn't mention the belly button. Not thorough at all. :lol:
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Post by Arania »

*smiles* Sounds like you and I share a lot of common thoughts on the subject, Vuldari - though I believe that you phrased it better in many resepects ^^
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Post by LoboLEO »

Great achivement Vuldari!... I'm positive agree with most of the facts.

About musuclar and body shape of werewolves , size and all...I really think werewolves should difference themself in termns of how they are from theirs human shape.

Maybe the werewolf shape could add some improvemente in the muscular bodybut just some... What I mean is that if the human shape is normal one....we may have a little muscular average werewolf ..., if the human is muscular we'll have a werewolf with great arms and power attack...but maybe slower than others and if you have a thin guy but athletic...we may have a not so muscular ww but with great agility skills...Mmmm... I think Im getting too much with rppg stuff ... :P

Anyway, for end I just think werewolves must someway retain a human characteristic of how they are and not just tf into a wolf who walks in two feet and are clones from other wwolves.

All wwolves are unique...no matter if they were bitten or born, they are similar of course but fur patterns and colors eyes, personal traits, body shape, size..., ammount of fur, long or short tails or ears...I dont know. I feel that important somehow to indetify ourself with one wwolf or another... thats the way I see it. :howl:  :oo
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Post by Vilkacis »

Vuldari wrote:I don't follow the "Carbon Copy", idea at all. That would suggest that the persons DNA in every cell of their body would be re-written. I don't see it that way at all.

As I see it, the Werewolf contagion would not overwrite a persons genitc code, but rather, ADD to it. (Like a "Patch" or a "Plug In" for a computer program.)


I agree--I really dislike the 'carbon copy' idea. Although, as for the actual method of changing the DNA, I prefer the idea that no DNA from the werewolf is transferred at all (or perhaps the contagion has its own DNA). Rather, the lycanthropic agent alters the existing DNA. But I don't find the 'patch' idea to be an unacceptable one; after all, we are discussing a problem that could have many potential answers.
Vuldari wrote:The Werewolf Virus/Contagion would be Gender Neutral (NO Trans-Gender TFs),
Agreed :D
Vuldari wrote:I also believe that a "Family" of werewolf would evolve/mutate over time, just like any other species, so that the decendants of a single werewolf, seperated by continents for hundreds or thousands of years would develop region-specific traits different from each other. (So...the American Werewolf clan and the Australian Clan could both have originated from the same French Werewolf hundreds of years ago, and yet, a trained eye could tell which clan a Werewolf came from based on the texture of the fur/ Thickness of the claws/ ETC. because they each developed unique "mutations" over the years.)
My own take on that is that it would depend entirely on the person. It wouldn't matter if a person was bitten by an American werewolf or an Australian one, if the person bitten was Chinese, then they'll have all the traits common to Chinese werewolves.

On the other hand, your method would allow the 'virus' to develop over time, allowing for it to have a background, if you will, of evolution to explain why it does what it does.

I can see it working either way.
Vuldari wrote:EYES: Wolves have poor vision (in terms of "focus"). Therefore, would a persons vision "degrade" while in wolf form, being more like a natural wolves vision...or Is a Werwolf Different in that respect. Maybe Werwolves actually have "Exelent" vision, unlike their ferral conterparts. That would make them more impressive. ...but less like natural Wolves.

MUSCLE: Again...Wolves are not Largely muscular, so If Werewolves are more like real wolves, they would be very lean. However, popular opinion invisions Werewolves as being huge, powerful beasts. So which is it? More Imressive...or More Natural?
In either case I go with the More Impressive view. Werewolves are really not all that natural in the first case. In general, as a fan, I don't care for any idea that would make werewolves inferior to their human counterpart. Thus, I would put the werewolf with equal eyesight, or better; with equal strength, or a little better. While it is an amusing idea, and could work in very specific contexts, I think most people would not care to see werewolf carrying around glasses.

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Post by Apokryltaros »

Vuldari wrote:EYES: Wolves have poor vision (in terms of "focus"). Therefore, would a persons vision "degrade" while in wolf form, being more like a natural wolves vision...or Is a Werwolf Different in that respect. Maybe Werewolves actually have "Excellent" vision, unlike their feral counterparts. That would make them more impressive. ...but less like natural Wolves.
I still laugh whenever I remember this one home video shot at a zoo, where the wolf kept a sharp eye on his camera man... And trotted right into the tree in front of him.
He was all, "Whuh huh? Where did that come from?"
:lol:
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Post by WolvenOne »

Ahh, this topic.

Well, I've always been in the boat of either having the vision somewhere in between or keeping it mostly human-ish. While I'm no expert a large factor in vision is the brain I believe, so unless we have major reshaping of the brain going on, I'd vote to keep sight somewhat human-ish, but maybe giving them a slightly better night vision.
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Post by Figarou »

Vuldari wrote: I think what Figarou was trying to ask is... "Are Werewolves Flawless?"...or..."Are a Humans biological shortcommings Fixed when they become a Werewolf?"

Yup. Thats what I meant when I opened this topic. :D

To me, I don't think becoming a werewolf would solve all problems.

If you have diabetes, you WILL die from a werewolf bite. Same goes for sickle cell anemia. Lycanthropy is not a cure. I find it silly to see a character wanting to be a werewolf just to be cured from an illness he/she already has.
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Post by WolvenOne »

The "regenetive" nature of werewolves will help with a lot of ailments, but can only really be approached on a case by case basis. As was mentioned earlier, it is indeed resonable to expect that some forms of near sighted-ness would be corrected and assuming it's not genetic then things like asthma would likely be corrected too.

The regenetive nature is also likely going to be a boon to general health, for example, if you life a lot of wieghts, the regenetive nature is going to repair the micro-fissures to your muscles, allowing a werewolf to recover a lot more quickly and effectivly, therby allowing the werewolf to excercise more often.

As for genetic abnormalities. Well, it's a lot less likely that it'd correct those unless something very specific to the nature of wolves contradicts the genetic abnormality. I cannot think of anything that'd fall under that catagory though.

Then we have things like cancer. Seriously, if you're a werewolf, you had better hope you don't get cancer. With your body regenerating so quickly certain kinds of cancer are most likely going to grow a LOT faster. This may partially be countered if the regenetive nature keeps the rest of your body healthier longer, but I'm not sure it'd do all that much.

Then there's age, which is kinda iffy. I have always personally liked Werewolves with long lifespans, but if a Werewolves regenetive nature only repairs damaged tissue and not damage as a smaller level, then it's just as likely that it'd accelerate the aging process.

Best bet, keep aging about normal, it's a good middle-ground.
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Post by Apokryltaros »

WolvenOne wrote: Then we have things like cancer. Seriously, if you're a werewolf, you had better hope you don't get cancer. With your body regenerating so quickly certain kinds of cancer are most likely going to grow a LOT faster. This may partially be countered if the regenetive nature keeps the rest of your body healthier longer, but I'm not sure it'd do all that much.
Actually, no. Whenever possible, cancer cells are attacked and killed by antibodies. Furthermore, cancer cells are dependant on nutrients that they can draw from the body. If a werewolf is resistant to disease, then it'll probably be resistant to cancer, too. After all, a good (cellular) repair system does not just replace lost tissue and cells, but also replaces/destroys damaged tissue and cells. Remember, a cancer cell is simply a normal cell that has mutated into something it shouldn't be. And the immune system can and will attack and destroy things produced by our own body.
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Post by IblisPendragon »

what about the age thing?..I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but how long would a werewolf live? As long as a normal human being, or does the Werewolf's ability to regenerate cause them to live longer?



As for the other questions I don't really have any good answers...hehe..but I believe that in order to survive being bitten and turning into a werewolf the different cells or Dna codes or whatvere have to merge. If the lycan dna is stronger and consumes the human dna I think the human will die..since there's nothing to "operate" the body until the lycan dna is ready to take over..or something. A person witha poor immunity system, like me, would probably die, or if they're lucky the regeneration thing will help them and they'll become werwolves...But it is an infection..and..and yeah...

But the virus is in the saliva right? They have to be bit to be infected, and not just scratched?
.? That is the problem with you mortals, you die too easily. You hardly fight back. A couple of pitiful screams and a little squirming and you are done. I can hardly call it satisfactory."

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Post by Scott Gardener »

On Stuff Vuldari already covered:

The "gene patch" approach would be a heck of a lot more efficient, since it would boil down 78 chromosomes worth of information down to about four. Considering how much more info you're going to need on managing shape-shifting, it's really the most plausible approach. Of course, if done, a werewolf would technically be a human with a gene patch, and would not be a wolf, even though he or she would look like one. And, the wolf form would look like the person as a wolf, since it would take his or her human features and translate them over.

(I mostly do this in my werewolves, but I do have a little spill-over, in that some of the previous person's traits can get transferred over. That's why my lead character has yellow eyes instead of blue.)

On "Tis but a scratch":

A lot of werewolf fan fiction pictures the infection transferring by a mere scratch, but the virus-like vector champions insist that the consensus werewolf generally requires a bite.

On lactose intolerance:

Lactose intolerance actually appears to be the norm. In every other mammal, milk is only taken in in infancy, and lactose intolerance is seen in the adult population. In most human races, lactose intolerance is seen in the majority of the population. White people have a large percentage of non-lactose-intolerance for the reasons described earlier--a strange tendancy to continue drinking milk--and not even our own milk, but that of cows. It's only the lobbying and marketing of the dairy industry that has so many convinced to this day that it's so essential a source of nutrition. And, yes, there are other sources of calcium.

On longevity:

A bleed-over from vampires has caused a lot of werewolf stories to suggest that lycanthropes live either very long or are immortal altogether. While this might be kind of nice, it's not essential, nor inevitable. A lycanthrope virus-like vector could conceivably immortalize occupied cells, but it could just as plausibly cause a more rapid aging. I've yet to see put to use the rather nasty plot device of having werewolves age in wolf years instead of human years. It would be great as an AIDS metaphor, and it would help restore the "tragic," "cursed" quality in somebody with great empowerment. Not that I want to see this done with Freeborn, mind you. I'm just surprised it hasn't been done.
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
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Post by Apokryltaros »

IblisPendragon wrote:what about the age thing?..I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but how long would a werewolf live? As long as a normal human being, or does the Werewolf's ability to regenerate cause them to live longer?
At the moment, we're thinking that a werewolf lives as long as a human does. I personally think it's rather silly for a werewolf to say supermodel-fresh for 3 to 6 hundred years at a time.

IblisPendragon wrote:As for the other questions I don't really have any good answers...hehe..but I believe that in order to survive being bitten and turning into a werewolf the different cells or Dna codes or whatvere have to merge. If the lycan dna is stronger and consumes the human dna I think the human will die..since there's nothing to "operate" the body until the lycan dna is ready to take over..or something. A person witha poor immunity system, like me, would probably die, or if they're lucky the regeneration thing will help them and they'll become werwolves...But it is an infection..and..and yeah...

But the virus is in the saliva right? They have to be bit to be infected, and not just scratched?
We've decided that the werewolf DNA does not replace the human's DNA, only modifying it somewhat.
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Post by wolf lady »

???????
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werewolves
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Post by Figarou »

wolf lady wrote:???????
Hehe yes...I'm confused at some of this myself. Thats why some of my posts are question based.
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Post by outwarddoodles »

Being human is the curse. Consider that, and you will see what many therianthropes think.
I don't know about others but in the community I talk in we do not appreciate the 'I wish to run away stupid humanity'. I myself appreciate my humanity and the way it is. The people who think that way are little wishers and dreamers and quite ignorant. And its not just therianthropes who think this, alot of people wish to escape it. Yes, I do not appreciate all the harsh parts and confusion, yet look, I'm human! I am capable of long drown out thought and capabilities! I can talk and draw and throw rubber duckies! I can meet wonderful people on the internet, and eat beef jerky all day.
The Werewolf Virus/Contagion would be Gender Neutral (NO Trans-Gender TFs), and would contain some "Cosmetic" / "Strain Specific" trait coding, but it would be passive, in a sense, so that, (depending on the individual), the person MIGHT inherit the Common Fur Color (for thier wolf form) of the perticular line of Werewolf that bit him/her, but it would also be possible for the persons own exiting genetics to override that perticular gene and keep their existng Hair color as their Fur color.
Ah, *Nods head.* Oh, and I'm quite sorry, hair and fur are the same. I'm a stupid arse. Everybody, throw rubber duckies!

Though what else can change here precisely? I see fur color changing, and eyes, but what other differences can be effected by the person's own gentic coding? Or does that not even matter. I'd still say that though if the traits are similair or the same that alot of them may be the same as what they are given.
EYES: Wolves have poor vision (in terms of "focus"). Therefore, would a persons vision "degrade" while in wolf form, being more like a natural wolves vision...or Is a Werwolf Different in that respect. Maybe Werwolves actually have "Exelent" vision, unlike their ferral conterparts. That would make them more impressive. ...but less like natural Wolves.
I think eyes would be neutral just as the gender sugestion.

?? Also as I've mentioned earleir, yet no one seemed to respond on: How much does the brain change?

I'd suspect that it should not change, but in order to use a different form wouldn't the nerves change and thus the brain must have a section in it to control it? Such as the tail, we do not have the information in our brains (that I know of, being once monkies we could.) to control a tail, won't we need that in a wolven form? Most of it has to do with the sizing and changing of the body and thus should still be used. Yet for new and unique parts, as the tail, how could we control it? Would the slight changes posibly happen before the first shift and then never change. Eh, confused.
"We are not always what we seem, and hardly ever what we dream."
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