Question Concerning Mindset/Instincts

[cumulusprotagonist]

Someone else has more than probably already thought of this but I figure I am not the only one who does not read all of the previous topics.
Wouldn,t a werewolf still have ties with both humans and wolves. Why then would a werewolf hunt humans? Could,nt their instincts differ from a normal wolf's due to that tie? Thus it's instinct would be not to hunt wolves or humans...

[RedEye]

In the wild, Wolves are sort of non-discriminatory consumers; they'll hunt just about anything that'll fill their bellies. Humans are notorious for preferentially hunting other humans. That's two votes for Human hunting-in Europe, where most of the basic Werewolf stories came from; Wolves hunted Humans. SO-given Human and Wolf hunting preferences; other Humans would be reasonable targets for an instinct-driven Werewolf.
Add in the sad fact that Hollywood realized that a Werewolf strolling down the aisle at the local butcher shop wouldn't sell movies; and you get a Human-hunting Werewolf.
Remember: this is Hollywood-do NOT confuse it with anything factual (I live less than ten minutes from Hollywood,btw.)
Actually, instinct driven Werewolves would be timid, shy creatures; they would know there was something wrong, but lack the smarts to figure it out. They'd be more likely to raid garbage cans than hunt Humans...but that wouldn't sell books or movies, would it?
Now, go to the Intelligent Werewolf: Human smarts and Wolf cunning and strength. They'd never hunt Humans-other than for safety and survival-they'd want to stay "legendary" and thus un-noticed. THe HUmans they did have to hunt would either be forced to Cross (become Werewolf thenselves) or be killed in a way that didn't point toward the Were' population.
Think of them as smart, cunning, careful, and determined to survive in a world of Smoothskin Humans. They'd be stealthy, not vicious.
Actually, they'd probably hang out with Werewolf Wanna-be's, as camouflage.
If they actually existed, you can bet they'd be on this board, saying that "they can't exist-so let's fantasize!" and lead people away from what they really are....
Right?

[Rhuen]

Wolves today avoid humans because humans are dangerous to them.
But like any predator it will hunt what ever it can and is most abudant (at hand)
for a werewolf that would be humans, easy to kill and lots of them, and unless people can make themselves out to be a threat it would continue to attack and eat them.

Also consider mixed instincts, its why wolf-dogs are so dangerous to have around. Mix a human mind with a wolf mind and who knows what the mixed instincts would produce as a result.

[ShadowFang]

Mix a human mind with a wolf mind and who knows what the mixed instincts would produce as a result.

That's one of the traits that attract me to werewolves in the first place. Just think about what that might be like!

[WerewolfKeeper3]

True for everything, however, Rhuen a predator knows that if there is the slightest chance it would get hurt, it will avoid the situation. I think that's what you were trying to say, however, even if this is an instinct driven werewolf, it would still remember that humans can harm it. If i can take a step to scientific side of things, my sociaology teacher says, there are no nateral instincts; they're all learned from an early age. (As in "How do you know to avoid the molten lava?" A funny question, however, you kearn that it can burn you, and thats how you avoid it.) Even if a werewolf has never been in contact with a gun (hardpressed nowadays, to find such a creature) or have never seen a body, they would still know plenty from their human minds to, (even if its repressed by the beast) to avoid humans. If i was werewolf, i've seen plenty of movies to knwo what happens to one who strolls down mainstreet, to avoid any and all humans as much as possible.

Oh, and i've wondered abou that too. But i wonder more what it would be like to run through thier world, quite literally.

[Rhuen]

True for everything, however, Rhuen a predator knows that if there is the slightest chance it would get hurt, it will avoid the situation. I think that's what you were trying to say, however, even if this is an instinct driven werewolf, it would still remember that humans can harm it. If i can take a step to scientific side of things, my sociaology teacher says, there are no nateral instincts; they're all learned from an early age. (As in "How do you know to avoid the molten lava?" A funny question, however, you kearn that it can burn you, and thats how you avoid it.) Even if a werewolf has never been in contact with a gun (hardpressed nowadays, to find such a creature) or have never seen a body, they would still know plenty from their human minds to, (even if its repressed by the beast) to avoid humans. If i was werewolf, i've seen plenty of movies to knwo what happens to one who strolls down mainstreet, to avoid any and all humans as much as possible.

Oh, and i've wondered abou that too. But i wonder more what it would be like to run through thier world, quite literally.

Your sociology teacher was wrong: or was only thinking of higher order social mammals.

A bird instincivly can build a nest: to the point its a mechanical function (most can't repair a nest but can only build it from scratch)

reptiles have all the skills they will ever need right at birth, a baby croc will even do a death roll, and avoid larger animals at the start.

Even baby humans have been shown at Birth to know how to hold their breath with out learning not to suck in water the hard way.
Although some instincts are funny, a baby human will hesitate to walk over a glass floor with a deep drop under it even with out ever having fallen before.
But put sharp objects under the glass floor and its shallow the baby wont hesitate to move over them.

Its a long debate over what is a socially learned trait and what is instinct. But the fact is everything has instincts, just how much is instinct and how complex it is is another story.

[RedEye]

Many of these instincts were at one time a reflexive action unique to a certain creature that enabled it to reproduce greater numbers of itself, and over time these became instincts.
What's the diff? Not all animals will present a given reflexive action; while they all present instinctive actions.

Birds didn't need to learn Nest repair; since once their chicks were fledged and away, they would usually abandon the nest, and build another one in the next mating season. Repair of nests didn't improve their particular reflex set's reproductive success.
Beavers are the exact opposite. They build-and maintain-their dams. Why? Because those reflexive actions improved their reflex-set's reproductive success. The Beavers who didn't plug the leaks in their dams had fewer survival-to-reproduce-again episodes with their young.

In a way; it seems like a Crapshoot: The reflexes that make more surviving offspring become instincts.

This excludes situations where the adults teach their young survival strategies-like Lions or Wolves, who have the instinct to teach hunting strategies to their young. Those are related to where the Wolves or Lions are located; and have to be adapted from generation to generation.

At least, that's my take on it...

[Rhuen]

Yes adult mammals have the parental instinct to teach, although learned behavior comes in as to what exactly is tought. Different Orcas will teach different methods, and different groups of chimps will use different types of basic tools.

So then when a werewolf is involved what kind of instinct would we have.

Humans and wolves both share parental instincts and the instinct to teach their young (what again varies)

both share an instinctive reaction to out of place sounds and smells. But wolves are focused around scent, humans around sight.

In the end both species really share many of the same instincts and group behaviors. But sometimes being too simular can have the oddest results in a cross over. Like the Wolf/Dog hybrid which displays many psychological problems as base instinct and bred in behaviorial traits intermingle.

Some breeds of dog are so selective that they only have part of their hunting behavior (the parts wanted by the breeders over the centuries) so when mixed can have odd results.

Humans can in a sense also be thought of as domesticated so when mixed with a pure wild creature the results could be inpredictable as far as behavior is concerned. Perhaps confussing things they would react positivly too with the fight and flight reflex, Association problems.

[Scott Gardener]

Of course, hunting humans would become a self-fulfilling prophesy; humans would be dangerous because they're afraid of the things in the dark, lurking, waiting to devour them. They'd fear those creatures hiding among them. And thus, they'd take out their fears by hunting down the monster that threatens them. Still, once you get things set in motion, it's darned hard to change things. Problems set in motion in medieval days can linger today, a millennium later. We know real-world equivalents of this when we see religious rivalries such as Sunnis vs. Shiites, and those two versus, well, us infidels.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Well, he was talking about humans.
Anyway, what i was trying to get across is, a werewolf would not go after a human, for the simple reason that they know not to. It doesn't have anything to with the hunting instinct. It's survival that we're dealing with. Isn't it?

[Rhuen]

Well, he was talking about humans.
Anyway, what i was trying to get across is, a werewolf would not go after a human, for the simple reason that they know not to. It doesn't have anything to with the hunting instinct. It's survival that we're dealing with. Isn't it?

Unless the cross confusion causes them to associate people with food. Even avoidance behavior can't over-ride feeding behaviors, which is why even though dogs know better sometimes they will still chase a car, just because its moving away from them at a high speed which triggers hunting and chasing instincts.

[RedEye]

It would take some really strong stimuli for a Werewolf to deliberately hunt humans-unless it were a plot device-since there's all that garbage available for the taking--without conflict.

If the Werewolf were intelligent, Humans would be one of the last food sources exploited, both for maintainance of the Were's "invisibility" and because of human "anti-cannibalism" mentality.
If the Werewolf were instinct driven, then I believe that the Were' would be afraid of humans to the point of shunning them in Were' form.
Where the danger would arise would be in the Semi-intelligent/Semi-instinctive Werewolf. Those people would be unpredictable; completely so.

[Ceekur]

RedEye brings up a good point. I don't see why werewolves would deliberately hunt humans as that would increase their public awareness and will cause unnecessary problems and physical stress/effort.

Adding to it with my own input, whether or not the werewolf was were-borne or changed, since they are part human, I don't know how comfortable they'd feel eating another of their own (half) kind. Even if their instincts are playing a more dominate role over their mind, then the human instincts, which include not practicing cannibalism, would conflict with the wolf instincts driving them to want to eat a human. (unless, of course, their wolf instincts are stronger than their human ones)

Also, we should establish what type of werewolf we are talking about here exactly. Are these particular ones good or evil? Borne or bitten? In control or no control, and to what degree?

[Rhuen]

RedEye brings up a good point. I don't see why werewolves would deliberately hunt humans as that would increase their public awareness and will cause unnecessary problems and physical stress/effort.

Adding to it with my own input, whether or not the werewolf was were-borne or changed, since they are part human, I don't know how comfortable they'd feel eating another of their own (half) kind. Even if their instincts are playing a more dominate role over their mind, then the human instincts, which include not practicing cannibalism, would conflict with the wolf instincts driving them to want to eat a human. (unless, of course, their wolf instincts are stronger than their human ones)

Also, we should establish what type of werewolf we are talking about here exactly. Are these particular ones good or evil? Borne or bitten? In control or no control, and to what degree?

You both certainly put alot of control emphasis on the human side.
I would see the wolf as being the more stable and less likely to hunt humans side, wolves avoid humans when ever possible.

Humans on the other hand minus inhibitions and driven to their own animal side are chimps (murderious psychotic creatures with little logic to their actions)
Perfectly healthy adult male chimps with plenty of alternate food snuck into a village kidnapped a baby and ate it.

I see a werewolf while looking like a wolf having the confused behavior of mixing primitive primate behavior with primitive canine behavior.

So on one hand in some stories we have the controlled civilized born a werewolf guys.
on the other hand the horror movies arn't too far off base in that if the average person were to suddenly find their own animal side in control would end up minus rational tactical thoughts (wolves have tactical thought too, chimps don't).

So how much of a werewolf is wolf and how much is primitive human? this question will ultimatly affect how your werewolf thinks. Unless its somekind of "I just look like a wolf but have the mind of a man" type deal.

[cumulusprotagonist]

Leave evolution debates out of it...(I am neutral but some may not be...<< >> << >> << >>)
BESIDES some people exceed your expectations,,,

Actually since It is related just try and disguise it

[Ceekur]

Well there have been incidents of wolf breeders being eaten because they forgot to feed the wolves on time. Survival and feeding instinct can override (perhaps weak) bonds and connections. Only because they were hunted, have wolves learned to avoid humans over time. I'm not sure what you mean by tactical thoughts (as in planning on how to close in on an animal and use teamwork for example?), but there was at least one incident where chimps planned and executed the murder of another chimp.

[Rhuen]

Leave evolution debates out of it...(I am neutral but some may not be...<< >> << >> << >>)
BESIDES some people exceed your expectations,,,

Actually since It is related just try and disguise it

I am not debating evolution. Just mentioning the fact that everytime we see humans minus their cultural inhibitions we seem to always get a psychotic out of control and violent creature, and the only thing otherwise resembling that is the other animal that shares 98% of human genetics. So basically why would the human side be the reasonable control side of the werewolf? wouldn't the wolf with its in born instincts for self preservation and tactical hunting be more on the side to run and hide from people than the human side that when it becomes animalistic just lashes out at anything nearby.

With out reason man becomes an ape.
give an ape a brain and it thinks its the center of the universe.