Issues with same sex families..yet again..

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:14 pm

Now I know there are folks who might agree this needs to happen, but as I said before doesn't love matter more? Why is is such a big issue? Why can't people of the same sex have families too an fit in with the rest of the world? Now again this comes up an I think it's wrong..The government it seems are trying to take away everything even your own freedom of choice..

We all know 2 men or 2 women can't have kids an seeing that many couples choose to adopt should make it all better, but it does not..

http://immigrationequality.org/template.php?pageid=49

White Paw · Post by **White Paw** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:07 am

because humans are too f*** ignorant and stuck up in there ways of life to accept what is different... to accept change... individuality..

makes me sick to think i live my daily life around such disgusting waste's of life.

accept change and accept individuality and get over yourselves on what your religion or your favorite celeberty says is right...

the human race makes me sick

ravaged_warrior · Post by **ravaged_warrior** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:50 am

Homophobic bullshit, the lot of it. Not allowing gays in the military, too. I thought we were supposed to have gotten past this kind of crap in the civil rights movement. Let people do what they want and leave them the hell alone.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:58 am

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Why is it such a big issue?

Because Americans love to think of themselves as being smart and involved in politics, but most are dumb as Hell. All of the issues concerning gay civil rights are incredibly juvenile in nature, as such any dumb hick and his sister/wife can have an opinion about it.

Bush, Cheney and the other elitist republicans love the gay marriage debate for exactly that reason; all the Americans that are too bankrupt of intelligent thought to comprehend issues of the environment or economy can understand "two guys kissing," so their vote is easily won over by anti-gay campaigning. In other words, it's a soapbox issue; it serves no purpose except to generate conflict in their favor.

psiguy · Post by **psiguy** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:58 am

I believe that passing any law to restrict same-sex couples is unjustified and unconstitutional.
One reason why I am against this restriction is because it goes against (my interpretation of) what a law is all about.

--------------

What should the role of the law be?

The role of a law should be to restrict the rights of all people so that...

A) One may not restrict the rights of another.

Ex: Slavery. Back then, people were free to call other people property. This freedom allowed a select few to strip the freedoms of those considered property. By not permitting this freedom, one can no longer limit the freedoms of another human being to mere property.

B) Everyone has the same opportunities and privileges.

An opposite example to this would be the Jim Crowe laws and the grandfather clause which by nature, held some people at a higher social status than others simply by their race. Those laws dis-balanced opportunities and privileges and were later deemed unconstitutional.

-------------------

So why would passing an anti same-sex marriage law or anything like it be wrong?

A) This imposes restrictions on some people. (not all of the people) Also, the very thing being restricted never caused any imposing factors on anyone else. If gay marriage were not restricted at all, would it impose any of the freedoms straight people have? I believe that is not the case. If gay marriage were restricted, only those who are homosexual will have their freedoms reduced.

B) By not permitting the marriage of same-sex couples, the opportunities and privileges of homosexuals will be at a disadvantage compared to those who are straight. Doesn't that go against "all men are created equal..." ?

-----------------

Well, there you have it. That is just one reason as to why I oppose restricting same-sex marriages. Just my $0.02

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:12 am

psiguy wrote:[snip]

Well put.

There's really no reason not to let them marry.

Especially when right now, the world needs nothing more than love, what with everyone pointing their nukes and Ak's at each other.

(I feel like such a hippy saying that....)

cumulusprotagonist · Post by **cumulusprotagonist** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:25 am

White Paw wrote:because humans are too {censored} ignorant and stuck up in there ways of life to accept what is different... to accept change... individuality..

makes me sick to think i live my daily life around such disgusting waste's of life.

accept change and accept individuality and get over yourselves on what your religion or your favorite celeberty says is right...

the human race makes me sick

HEY HEY HEY!
I hope you do not think I am a homophobe just because I am a member of the human race! It is a very bad habit to speak in such a way. The individuals who use religion, social status, politcs, or etc... make me sick not the speciest sterotype of humans.

I know you do not mean it like that but it is still a bad habit.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:45 am

I voted against a gay marriage amendment last year.( Here in Colorado ) But at the same time, I voted yes to give same sex couples the same benefits heterosexual married couples have. ( on a different proposition )

Here's my reasons...

1: I want kids to grow up knowing the difference between marriage (man and woman ) and a domestic partnership ( or whatever you want to call it. I think it's healthy for the whole Mom-Dad dynamic to be the standard definition of the institution of marriage. ( This has nothing to do with love, btw. It's only a category ) Just because someone is against gay marraige, doesn't mean they hate gay people. I know it's hard to believe, but really. Consider where the attitude towards gay people WAS, prior to say, the Vietnam war. You'd really have complained then, or maybe not, most likely, if you were a gay person, you'd be in the closet. Really, really, really deep in the closet, hiding for your LIFE.

2: Kids get confused enough growing up. I know for a fact that when I was growing up, if someone asked me torefer to a gay couple as "husband and husband" or some similar description, it would have made me squeamish and uncomfortable, and unable to address a person respectfully. Sorry, but i think even kids have a sense of the world when it's a standard family dynamic. Mom, Dad, brother, sister, etc. I mean...how many times are we going to change the way we describe things ( IE, stewardesses are now flight attendants, and COCKPITS are now flight decks. )

On a side note, people CAn accept those who are different. Just look at all the advocacy groups for little people, fat people ( i don't use the word obese, fat is fat ) People of color...Don't forget, this is the United States. We are the most culturally diverse nation on Earth.

On an entirely different subject, I checked that website. I agree people deserve respect, but immigration serves a purpose. Ellis island existed so we didn't have to bring in a whole population of the most unskilled workers, or diseases carriers. I read that site and it seems to say to me. let's let everyone in no matter their health status or whatever. We can't have that. it's what's caused our immigration crisis up to this point.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:23 pm

The thing about marriage, Matt, is that it's primarily for religious purposes as opposed to legal reasons. You can be a mother or a father without being a husband or a wife you know. Marriage implies a legal partnership, but it's primarily a religious ceremony.

So wouldn't imposing any laws regarding marriage be along the same lines as breaking the separation between church and state?

If two people want to solidify their civil union with the blessing of a priest and a hundred of their friends and family, I say let them. And if they want to somehow have children of their own, let them. Children overall are smarter than their parents give them credit for; it isn't that hard to figure out that "dad" or "father" refers to any guy that's a parent and "mom" or "mother to any woman that's a parent.

That whole thing about kids being confused about what it means to be a family. . . Sorry Matt, but that's just lazy parenting. After all, there's nothing in the law that says you can't teach your kids what you think it means to be a family.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:54 pm

That's your opinion Ter, and mine is mine. You needn't lecture me as if I were some kind of savont.

cumulusprotagonist · Post by **cumulusprotagonist** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:04 pm

Take it easy...
We should all slow down and let each post ping pong back and forth in our heads before responding to it...

DarkShadow · Post by **DarkShadow** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:04 pm

It's very sad. I don't see why it matters either. Love is love, no matter what.

I have many friends who are beaten up because of their preference.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:04 pm

My point was that "marriage" is more or less just a ceremony celebrating a domestic partnership. If you allow domestic partnerships for all groups but only marriage for one group, that's religious rule.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:27 pm

Someone on the radio said this, and I wholeheartedly agree.

The government should take their filthy fingers out of marriage entirely. All unions between any two people regardless should be domestic partnerships, in the eyes of the government. Period. You want to get married? okay, have fun with your religious ceremony. Just know that the religious ceremony is invisible and irrelevant to the government.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:35 pm

What irritates me about the issue of same-sex couples having difficulties adopting children is that: These are children that need homes, and these are parents who are willing to give these children a home. Why deny a loving parent to a needy child?

Otherwise, to sound like a broken record. I believe every America has the same free rights regardless of gender/sexual identity. Gay Marriage should be completely Legal. (Whether or not church decides to do the ceramony is their decision.)

I'm pretty happy to say that, from what I know of, most peers in my generation are generally open about homosexual marriage (I will emphasize marriage, because that doesn't mean they want to be open about homosexuality themselves. ) But boys in my age are more likely to blame others for being gay, thanks to the social stigma against men showing affection. (I will definitely not excuse the few population I have heard hurtful comments from. )

I can only judge from where I live, though. And I'm aware that my old school was known for homophobic harassment. It's posible I live in a homosexually open area, or just being a teenager is allowing me this privledge. Thank God I don't live in the South. Southern Baptists. *shudder*

I'm always happy to see people who can open with their sexual identity. I'm still backed a little into the closet, but I'll be open and tell you people that yes, I'm gay (or lesbian, whatever.). I ran into an awful bout of depression earlier this year I'm still struggling with because I wouldn't accept myself knowing that my father doesn't like me because of it. But it hurts to hide.

I understand once I get out of highschool, I don't expect social harassment to be as much of a problem. But I, personally, plan on adoption, and I'm hoping laws restricting homosexuals will die down by the time I want to do that. A lot of recent politians seem to be supporting gay marriage. (But I'd rather adopt, than get married.)

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Pride. (I forgot how to do transparent backgrounds! D;)

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Oh, I'm sure at least a few of you here have seen this:

Twelve Reasons Why Gays Should NOT be able to Marry.

ravaged_warrior · Post by **ravaged_warrior** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 pm

outwarddoodles wrote:Oh, I'm sure at least a few of you here have seen this:

Twelve Reasons Why Gays Should NOT be able to Marry.

Damn. Owned.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:29 am

ravaged_warrior wrote:
outwarddoodles wrote:Oh, I'm sure at least a few of you here have seen this:

Twelve Reasons Why Gays Should NOT be able to Marry.
Damn. Owned.

And owned hard.

Lycanthrope · Post by **Lycanthrope** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:46 am

outwarddoodles wrote:Oh, I'm sure at least a few of you here have seen this:

Twelve Reasons Why Gays Should NOT be able to Marry.

I really need to memorise this.

psiguy · Post by **psiguy** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:50 am

Interesting... Psiguy.com

I got to love this guy's sense of humor on that page.

My favorites were #3, #5, and #9

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:25 am

Kzinistzerg wrote:Someone on the radio said this, and I wholeheartedly agree.

The government should take their filthy fingers out of marriage entirely. All unions between any two people regardless should be domestic partnerships, in the eyes of the government. Period. You want to get married? okay, have fun with your religious ceremony. Just know that the religious ceremony is invisible and irrelevant to the government.

Well spoken.

I also agree with Outward's sentiments on adoption. The only real point in pushing for anti-gay policy is to win voter support in the Bible Belt -- there's absolutely no practical reason to support a ban on gay marriage, gay adoption, etc., and the people that vote for such things do so out of hatred. There was some confusion when Massachusetts initially voted to legalize gay marriage; a lot of the opponents of gay marriage that I spoke with were apparently under the impression that they were voting against the legalization of being gay.
It's amazing how much people can suck when they put their mind to it, isn't it?

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:12 pm

You know what, Z? Your not a practical solution so your BANNED!!

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:49 am

Z's right though... The history of prohibition of anything that only certain sectors of society think is harmful (alcohol, religion, weed, being gay, etc. etc.) is a history of failure. My town was dry for something like 30 or 40 years. Never stopped anyone from drinking.

Basically... I don't want the government in gay people's bedrooms because I don't want the government in my bedroom. What consenting adults do in private is none of my business, and that's the best way for it to be.

Kaebora · Post by **Kaebora** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:17 am

Midnight wrote:Basically... I don't want the government in gay people's bedrooms because I don't want the government in my bedroom. What consenting adults do in private is none of my business, and that's the best way for it to be.

Very true. But the real issue is Marraige. Not the religous type, but the legal. A court has to confirm the marraige of two people so that the benifits of the shared household can exist. Tax issues... name changes... shared property... etc.

Personally, sharing such legal things doesn't seem like such a big deal. I say allow it. But in addition (because I'm a devoted christian) gay marraige of the religous type I feel shouldn't be practiced. That case is not as much a part of the legal system though.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:34 am

My 2 cents if u please... this all started way back for any of us was born..People have been doing this same sex relationships.. People saw it an didn't like it so they put it in this book an then tried to make it a law for this not to be right..I can't understand an I tell my mom this since she doesn't approve of this either an nor her family..Why would things like finding your soul mate as a same sex or wat not be agaisnt anything? Is not love more important? Is not happiness more important? Trying to make yourself love someone you really don't would not make you happy..Because this book has been around for who knows how long an no one can know who truly made it unless they were there..This book people read an yes alot of folks agreed with the words because that was their own pref to begin with an now since it is that way, it's not becoming an even bigger issue now involving the president an government..Cause of something started years ago..

Now before you all take this as an insult i was once part of a religious background, but left cause I wasn't happy with it..I know wat my bible said an i have read many, but i also look at how alot of wat the law says is wrong so does the bible...To me alot of the many laws that are out there now came from the readings in the bible..Therefore seeing as how many people hate gays an such, it was an easy thing to put up for debate..I just don't know..no one can truly IMHO so please don't cut me up folks I'm only stating wat i have come to believe an hell i'm not saying i'm right, this is just wat it seems like to me

an outwordoodles good on you for coming out with that..I think the reason folks hide is fear, but you just can't keep yourself in the dark, it's make you so unhappy in the end..

End conclusion..why now does man still try to mess with our life? One man is no more powerful than the other, yet he is given it by other man an to me that should have ever come to be..There is still chaos everywhere you turn despite these laws that have been laid

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