Werewolf cliches?

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:03 pm

Oh, dang it; my character Scott Gardener in my novel starts off a vegitarian. OK, I knew it wasn't original. But, it's because he's based on me. OK, even less original, and that's NOT something I tell prospective agents! They hate ego-leads.

FoxOfWar · Post by **FoxOfWar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:28 am

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:26 am

*nods* That's why I'm confident Freeborn will get good reviews: All the critics will go expecting a cheesy B movie, so no matter what the finished product looks like, it will be much better than they expected.

Fullmoonstar · Post by **Fullmoonstar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:09 am

Terastas wrote:*nods* That's why I'm confident Freeborn will get good reviews: All the critics will go expecting a cheesy B movie, so no matter what the finished product looks like, it will be much better than they expected.

jeah...i totally agree with that...

FoxOfWar · Post by **FoxOfWar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:37 am

Terastas wrote:*nods* That's why I'm confident Freeborn will get good reviews: All the critics will go expecting a cheesy B movie, so no matter what the finished product looks like, it will be much better than they expected.

*nods back* Agreed.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:42 am

Scott Gardener wrote:Oh, dang it; my character Scott Gardener in my novel starts off a vegitarian. OK, I knew it wasn't original. But, it's because he's based on me. OK, even less original, and that's NOT something I tell prospective agents! They hate ego-leads.

Not only is it cliche'd, but it is also very likely to detract the overall quality of the story itself.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:14 pm

Scott Gardener wrote:Oh, dang it; my character Scott Gardener in my novel starts off a vegitarian. OK, I knew it wasn't original. But, it's because he's based on me. OK, even less original, and that's NOT something I tell prospective agents! They hate ego-leads.

I think you'd need to explain why he's a vegetarian before you could determine whether it's cliche or not. It's not so much vegetarianism that's stereotypical, rather the cliche is that the newly infected protagonist is always this meek little kid.

So if he's a vegetarian because he can't stand the thought of killing an animal, that would be cliche. Someone that is a vegetarian for health and/or environmental reasons would be tolerable, while maybe even a militant vegetarian could be considered original.

The meek human protagonist is one of the cliches I'm addressing in one of my works: there's a human in the pack they're weary of infecting because, though he's kept the existence of werewolves a secret all this time, he's a total outspoken bastard when it comes to everything else.

geekboy1500 · Post by **geekboy1500** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:17 pm

isn't the werewolf in and of itself a cliche??

FoxOfWar · Post by **FoxOfWar** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:45 am

geekboy1500 · Post by **geekboy1500** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:33 am

whoops. I didn't think it was off-topic, i just thought it was interesting that there are cliches within cliches

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:26 pm

I think the one fur color thing has already been said somewhere as a cliche. The fur almost never looks like wolf fur or that of any canine.

Another cliche is the overly long front arms and short back legs, this muscle head version tends to pop up alot especially in animated forms.

avogadro522 · Post by **avogadro522** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:01 pm

Rhuen wrote:I think the one fur color thing has already been said somewhere as a cliche. The fur almost never looks like wolf fur or that of any canine.

Another cliche is the overly long front arms and short back legs, this muscle head version tends to pop up alot especially in animated forms.

To a certain extent, this version of a werewolf does solve some logistical problems. If a werewolf is suppose to be quadrapedal and have digigrade feet, then the arms would have to lengthen and the thighs and calves would have to shrink inorder to comfortable accomadate this type of movement. Of course, loading up your upper body with an insane ammount of muscle defeats the purpose of these adjustments.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:38 pm

Yes, the whole digigrade thing is an issue that has to be looked at. One of the solutions given is to have the quadraped be a different form from the digigrade. If it's a shift, then it's certainly easier to deal with. I prefer that because each form can be correct, with no elongating or shortening of the wrong limbs.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:17 pm

Yeah the muscle head werewolves I've seen come across looking like gorillas with wolf heads with how long they make the arms and the amount of muscle they put on them.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:29 pm

Silver wrote:Yes, the whole digigrade thing is an issue that has to be looked at. One of the solutions given is to have the quadraped be a different form from the digigrade. If it's a shift, then it's certainly easier to deal with. I prefer that because each form can be correct, with no elongating or shortening of the wrong limbs.

Why not have the Gestalt (mid-form) as a digitigrade biped? Then there would be a sort of mini-shift where the shoulder blades slide down the ribcage so that the forearms are the necessary 2-3" longer than the hind legs.
That would also explain the somewhat muscular shoulder form that Were's are usually assorted with: Those muscles are holding the shoulder blades in place after they've moved from Smooth-human form to Gestalt or Quadruped.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:45 pm

RedEye wrote:
Silver wrote:Yes, the whole digigrade thing is an issue that has to be looked at. One of the solutions given is to have the quadraped be a different form from the digigrade. If it's a shift, then it's certainly easier to deal with. I prefer that because each form can be correct, with no elongating or shortening of the wrong limbs.
Why not have the Gestalt (mid-form) as a digitigrade biped? Then there would be a sort of mini-shift where the shoulder blades slide down the ribcage so that the forearms are the necessary 2-3" longer than the hind legs.
That would also explain the somewhat muscular shoulder form that Were's are usually assorted with: Those muscles are holding the shoulder blades in place after they've moved from Smooth-human form to Gestalt or Quadruped.

that reminded me of the hindged collar bone Idea that I had for going between biped and quadraped stances rather than needing more metamorphing. I mistakenly compared the design to a wishbone when in quadraped or hunched over stance and that got dragged on rather than just looked at as a necisary evil to keep a collar bone around when its not needed with out having to regrow a new one when going biped.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:44 pm

You need collarbones for ripping things apart, as well as climbing climbable surfaces. They provide support and securement.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:18 pm

RedEye wrote:You need collarbones for ripping things apart, as well as climbing climbable surfaces. They provide support and securement.

exactly why its needed for bipeds, and extra support for the werewolf for a curved collar bone in quadraped. The idea of the hendged one was that in biped mode the collar bone is like ours, but thanks to it being able to unlock it (like a snake's jaw) it could unhindge and relock it in a curved form for when going on all fours rather than the werewolf needing to transform this bone structure with metamorphosis.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:57 am

geekboy1500 wrote:isn't the werewolf in and of itself a cliche??

It depends on what you believe about werewolves. Or more accurately, what you believe about werewolf movies.

When this forum started, there were some people that insisted that if a werewolf doesn't [insert cliche here], [insert another cliche here] or [instert yet another cliche here], then it's not a real werewolf.

So if you take everything we've mentioned and insist that anything that doesn't adhere to those cliches is not a real werewolf, then yes, the werewolf is a cliche in itself. However, if all you accept to be true about werewolves is a man/wolf association and leave everything else open to an alternative interpretation, then the answer is no.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:55 pm

Has anyone yet mentioned the part where in werewolf media, any character with a religious background, i.e. priests and clerics, are either stubbornly zealous or psychotically/antagonistically racist?

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:04 pm

kitetsu wrote:Has anyone yet mentioned the part where in werewolf media, any character with a religious background, i.e. priests and clerics, are either stubbornly zealous or psychotically/antagonistically racist?

that goes with all monster movies, sci-fi, horror, action, and just about any movie,book, comic, anime, ect... really.

A religious character is either good at what they do because of how devout they are or are pictured as religious nut jobs, either way they are always very religious regardless if the movie or what not wants to make them good or bad,
PS: As a side note I have yet to meet a real priest that wasn't zealous, but I can't speak for all of them just the ones I have come across.

Set · Post by **Set** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:43 pm

Priests are always somewhat over-enthusiastic about their religion. That's why they're priests.

WerewolfKeeper3 · Post by **WerewolfKeeper3** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:19 am

The whole priest thing seems to be a backdrop for the "hunting of the monster" crap.
({Snoring}) {He's sleeping, thank god. He won't post right now.} It's as if they need some religious freak to stir the townspeople into a frenzy. Isn't it also the guy who's usually using this to push his church or religion? As in "My church/religion killed the monster. We're better."
({Yawning. Notices computer screen. Glares at human.} Why didn't you wake me up?)
uh...
(You might be going overboard on that. But i do see what you're talkig about. The "real" badguy is the one who's trying to "save" the rest of the town. Right?)
Right.
Any thoughts? Or did i just say what someone else said?

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:41 am

kitetsu wrote:Has anyone yet mentioned the part where in werewolf media, any character with a religious background, i.e. priests and clerics, are either stubbornly zealous or psychotically/antagonistically racist?

Something I'd add to that is that, if there is a religious "kindly father" figure, there's always a fanatic working against him.

Something else worth mentioning about religion in movies is that, more often than not, if a kindly father is willing to lay down his life, he'll survive long enough to bury the dead, whereas the guy that prays to God for strength and/or protection always dies, and usually in a very dramatic and/or painful way.

The scene that comes to mind the most for me was the death of the sniper in Saving Private Ryan. To the best of my recollection, he was the only person in that movie to get shot by a tank.

ravaged_warrior · Post by **ravaged_warrior** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:07 pm

Am I the only person who has never seen some of these cliches? Most of my werewolf story intake comes from movies, though...