Body Condition Vs "THE BITE"

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:22 pm

No they probably wouldn't due to thier regenerative capabilities but I'm assuming that any virus is going to take the shortest possible route to achieve the desired effect. Since going with a middle ground vision is less drastic then going from full human vision to full wolf vision, I'm assuming it's easier for the virus to achieve.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:48 pm

WolvenOne wrote:No they probably wouldn't due to thier regenerative capabilities but I'm assuming that any virus is going to take the shortest possible route to achieve the desired effect. Since going with a middle ground vision is less drastic then going from full human vision to full wolf vision, I'm assuming it's easier for the virus to achieve.

That sounds very logical to me.

Also...I think that, in most cases, transforming would only ADD things (like fur, claws extra muscle/bone, etc.) and usually not take anything AWAY, unless it was somehow, temporarily "in the way". (Like Big Toes...)
Therefore, I don't see why the extra ocular sensory nerves allready present in a humans eyes (which give us a broader visible light spectrum), would be taken away durring a shift...though a WereWolves vision might be dilluted by the ADDITION of extra low light sensing nerves (which give Wolves better Night Vision, but do not distinguish between colors as well), thus retaining the same spectrum of visible colors, but making everything look "washed out" or "faded" in a Werewolves eyes.

...just a thought.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:15 pm

I don't see why the extra ocular sensory nerves allready present in a humans eyes (which give us a broader visible light spectrum), would be taken away durring a shift...though a WereWolves vision might be dilluted by the ADDITION of extra low light sensing nerves (which give Wolves better Night Vision, but do not distinguish between colors as well), thus retaining the same spectrum of visible colors, but making everything look "washed out" or "faded" in a Werewolves eyes.

Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking. Though I'll refer again to the werewolf vision chart I added earlier to go into detail.

As you can see the color spectrum is roughly the same as a humans, but I've added extra yellow and light recepters which I'm assuming is responsible for night vision.

As you can see these spectrums of light arn't as wide as a wolf's because I'm assuming that even if the rest are washed out, with the sheer amount of colors there simply wouldn't be enough room after awhile to achieve the same effect. In short, without removing the red and green spectrums it's impossible to reach the same level of low light vision.

So yes I think the description you threw out would fit fairly well.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:42 pm

Here's another chart detailing the differences between human, wolves, and werewolves. I'm afraid the wolf portion isn't quite right as there's still some green and red, but I just haven't been able to figure out how to convert those colors into something within the wolf spectrum.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:19 am

Just as long as it isn't through a Solarized or Posterized filter, accompanied by heavy breathing or a heartbeat. I wonder why we don't see the wolves in Wolfen or its billion immitations smacking into things.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:23 am

Heh, a lot of movies seem to just throw in the heat-vision speciel effects from Predator without much thought. Tis silly, I agree.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:27 am

Vuldari wrote: Therefore, I don't see why the extra ocular sensory nerves allready present in a humans eyes (which give us a broader visible light spectrum), would be taken away durring a shift...though a WereWolves vision might be dilluted by the ADDITION of extra low light sensing nerves (which give Wolves better Night Vision, but do not distinguish between colors as well), thus retaining the same spectrum of visible colors, but making everything look "washed out" or "faded" in a Werewolves eyes.

...just a thought.

I don't think the having having extra rods would end up making regular vision look 'washed out' or anything; IIRC, there's a level of light above which rods stop working. (That's why there's a period after dusk where it's hard to see; it's too dark for cones to work properly, and too bright for rods.)

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:36 am

WolvenOne wrote:http://wolf0013.xepher.net/temp/VisionChart.jpg

Here's another chart detailing the differences between human, wolves, and werewolves. I'm afraid the wolf portion isn't quite right as there's still some green and red, but I just haven't been able to figure out how to convert those colors into something within the wolf spectrum.

I think it should look something like this:

(Original)

The red and green channels were merged. and then I reduced the image by 40% and resized it back to normal.

Edit: I don't pay attention.

Set · Post by **Set** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:15 pm

Lupin wrote:I don't think the having having extra rods would end up making regular vision look 'washed out' or anything; IIRC, there's a level of light above which rods stop working. (That's why there's a period after dusk where it's hard to see; it's too dark for cones to work properly, and too bright for rods.)

That was also how the humans in the movie Reign Of Fire killed the "dragons". (going by their build it would've been more accurate to call them wyverns...) They attacked them at dusk.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:54 pm

You know one of these days I've got to break down and learn how to work with those color channels. Anyhow yeah, that does look about right for how a wolf would see thing's. Though I'm not sure light this is compared to the original picture. With a wolf's better low-light vision the shadows may look less drastic to them.

I should note though that I'm going to stick with the somewhat washed out stance though. The fewer colors a creature can see the more difficult it should be to distinguish between one color and another. I am assuming of course that a werewolf will lose some of it's ability to make distinctions between subtle variations in color, in large part because it'd seem to me that there is probably a limit to just how many light receptors can be fit in one eye. In short, something has to be given-up in order to get that better low-light vision.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:53 pm

WolvenOne wrote:You know one of these days I've got to break down and learn how to work with those color channels. Anyhow yeah, that does look about right for how a wolf would see thing's. Though I'm not sure light this is compared to the original picture. With a wolf's better low-light vision the shadows may look less drastic to them.

Whoops. I though I had linked the original picture. I guess I wasn't paying attention. Yeah, I think the brightness is still a bit off, since I wasn't really sure how the channel mixer woked.

And for something completely different: the cereal aisle as it would look to a werewolf.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:22 pm

you could probably generate the effect by takign the pic into pphotoshop and using the contrast/brightness meters to put the brightness up and contrast down and then go and make the saturatio na bit less.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:32 pm

Lupin wrote:
And for something completely different: the cereal aisle as it would look to a werewolf.

werewolf in cereal aisle-- "What!! No Frute Brute!!"

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:44 pm

Hehehehe, nope, no Fruit Brute. ;)

Actually the cereal aisle picture looks pretty darn close to how I think a werewolf would percieve things. Good job.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:27 pm

Well what I'm wondering if the eyes really need to change. It could be eye neatrul so that the eyes may change shape to fit in the head properly but not change fully the way its built. With the werewolf there are things that seem to be changed from a regular wolf, the big toe for instance. The eyes don't have to change through different shapes too much do they?

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:35 pm

Well, even though humans have the ability to view an ultra wide veriety of colors, thier low light sight is horrible and a werewolf is likely to be most active during low light situations anyway. Without at least slightly improved low-light vision a werewolf would have an extremly hard time, even if the rest of thier senses were completly on par with a real wolf's

*since a human has spent most of thier life percieving the world through sight it'll be hard to consciously change this behavior without remapping the brain.*

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:10 pm

i think that if a person gets bitten by a werewolf i think that i would take months for the virus to rewrite the DNA of the victom well think about it there is over billions of cell in the human body it will take some time.
even though i like to think that werewolves are perfect creatures. they will have allergies like any other living the silver for an example can cause a siver allergic reaction.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:20 pm

Oh realistically shifting from one form to another would take months if not years. This is another area where the science is simply fudged, rather drastically.

Personally, because of such drastic fudging, I prefer sticking to magic and such.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:13 am

I don't know why, but I hate having magic as a solution for everytihng.

If you do your research, you can find a logical solution. The only problem is making others accept your philosophy.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:50 am

*puts on glasses to fake smartness*

Science 101 "matter can NOT be created or destroyed" some guys law of something. So if a were wolf is suppost to get bigger and stronger were does he get the matter from

From the surrounding air or something, or my personal faverite he pigs out on an all you can eat buffet the night before. "Golden Corral" here I come.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:59 am

Heh

Somehow I doubt a human could possibly eat enough food to account for an extra 15 to 30 pounds of body-mass. Plus this would really confuse things when it comes to voluntary shifting.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:30 pm

I don't want to see a werewolf "Pig-out" before he shifts. A reasonable meal is ok. But please don't make the werewolf eat what can feed an Army.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:15 pm

Well, like I said earlier, this is simply an aspect of werewolfdom that'll have to be fudged. However most people won't notice if done correctly, I'll use a comparison to similer effects to demonstrate how.

The Live Action Hulk series

The effects used definitly implied an increase in mass, but it wasn't so drastic as to seem terribly wrong to the viewer. The fact that the audience never got the best vantage point for the transformation helped a lot.

The New Hulk Live Action Movie

The difference in size between the main character and the CG hulk was so dramatic that there was no helping but to notice the fact that mass was coming out of nowhere. Between how drastic it was and how good of a vantage point there was, the effect resembled a balloon being inflated.

American Werewolf in London

The effects in this movie strike a pretty good balence. The audience is given a resonably good vantage point but not so good as to give them time to dwell on the mass-gain. As for the mass gain itself, if I remember correctly the main character does gain more mass then the main character in the original hulk did, but between it being slow, not super drastic, and not having the best vantage, it manages to work.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:06 pm

I perceived no change of mass in AWIL. But, even if there was, that movie did rely on some magic elements, like the undead walking in Limbo.

Werewolves gaining any mass at all, even one pound (or 0.45 kilograms for those of you in every part of the world smart enought to use the metric system), goes against basic physics. We're already pushing biology so much past the brink that the Creationists think we're reaching a little. Let's not have Professor Hawking ordering our execution as well.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:23 pm

Trust me, I've gone over this over and over again and simply put you're not going to have the addition of a a muzzle, and a tail without gaining some bone mass and I don't think there's enough Calcium elsewhere in the body to create these new bones.

Knocking a few inches off a wolf's hieght might do it but once again you'd be breaking the laws of physics by spontainiously breaking down calcium in one part of the body and moving it to another. Plus by the time you knocked enough size out of the WW to accomplish this you'd have trouble fitting all the internal organs within thier body.

So as I said earlier, mass increase in inevitable. The question instead is how percievable it'd be to the audience. As a rule I advocate keeping it less percievable however, what works from a speciel effects standpoint would most likely be the deciding factor.