Downloading illegal movies, movies etc. Your opinion?

[Scott Gardener]

Note that "fair use" precedents in the cassette days has established that it's legal for one person to make a copy of a movie or music album for a friend. (Unless, of course, you're going against the DMCA and cracking the copyright protection of a CSS-encoded DVD.) You can legally make a copy of Metallica's "Master of Puppets" for a friend. (I think most of us in our thirties discovered Metallica by getting a low quality tape of that album on cassette.) You can't, however, upload it to a file-sharing server to be downloaded by millions of strangers. Giving "every Pack member" a copy of a movie is probably also a bit much, but meeting, say, five of you at a con and exchanging copies of "Lycan Colony" or MST3K's "Werewolf" would be legal. Granted, since Lycan Colony is a low budget independent film, it really needs the benefit of royalties. (Anyone who sees it will see why!)

[Morkulv]

I'm anti-piracy as soon as they drop the prices from most media, wich will unlikely happen soon IMO.

[twirrlacurl]

Yes indeed we all know its wrong and illegal, i do it myself but mostly only for music. Movies on the other hand take so long to download and then you have to illegally download the right software to make it into a DVD... its a lot of work. If its a movie I heard got bad reviews and was awful, yea I'm going to download it instead of wasting my money. But movies I actually want to see, liked in theaters, I buy.

[Scott Gardener]

I don't personally consider whether it was a "good" or "bad" movie criteria for justifying piracy; if I am going to spend the time to watch it, it's good enough to pay royalties. If it's bad enough, I'm not going to watch it. Even crappy werewolf movies like "Howling IV" have some entertainment value. If you want it enough to watch it once, I feel you owe them the cost of rental. If you have to have a copy, good or bad, you should either buy it or get it from a friend via fair use clauses.

Update on WKRP in Cincinatti: I saw the DVD available at Best Buy. To get past the licencing dilemmas, they redubbed some of the incidental radio broadcast music with more readily available music tracks. It's not the original show, but it's the closest approximation legally available. ET-hunters bearing walkie-talkies instead of rifles and Imperial Stormtroopers inquiring whether Greedo or Solo shot first will feel right at home, but purists will have one more case of digital revisionism about which to complain.

[CyberWolf]

My pattern:

Download a new movie
If I like it, I go the the theatre for better quality and buy the DVD when released.
If I don't like it, no money is wasted on my end.

[MattSullivan]

My opinion. You're a lazy prick who didn't want to work hard enough to make money...so you steal someone elses work. Right now there's a thread about some jerk leaking the harry Potter book. That's piracy, and people seem outraged by that...so why is it ok to steal movies and music?

You're theives, no matter what you think. Trying to justify it only hurts your argument.

[Kaebora]

According to the United States Courts...

If you do not have legal permission, and you go ahead and copy or distribute copyrighted music anyway, you can be prosecuted in criminal court and/or sued for damages in civil court.

Criminal penalties can run up to 5 years in prison and/or $250,000 in fines, even if you didn't do it for monetary or financial or commercial gain.

For all the public confusion, a long series of court rulings has made it very clear that it's against the law both to upload and download copyrighted music without permission.

It doesn't matter whether you're dealing with sound recordings, pictures, software or written text. The courts have consistently ruled that P2P and other unauthorized uploading and downloading inherently amount to copyright infringement and therefore constitute a crime.

Technology has made digital copying easier than ever. But just because advances in technology make it possible to copy music doesn't mean it's legal to do so. Here are tips from some record labels on how to enjoy the music while respecting rights of others in the digital world. Stick with these, and you'll be doing right by the people who created the music.

Internet Copying

-It's okay to download music from sites authorized by the owners of the copyrighted music, whether or not such sites charge a fee. For a list of some authorized sites, click here.
-It's never okay to download unauthorized music from pirate sites (web or FTP) or peer-to-peer systems. Examples of peer-to-peer systems making unauthorized music available for download include: Kazaa, Grokster, WinMX, LimeWire, Bearshare, Aimster, Morpheus, and Gnutella.
-It's never okay to make unauthorized copies of music available to others (that is, uploading music) on peer-to-peer systems.

Copying CDs

-It's okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
-It's also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R's, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) — but, again, not for commercial purposes.
-Beyond that, there's no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won't usually raise concerns so long as:
-The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
-The copy is just for your personal use. It's not a personal use — in fact, it's illegal — to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.
-The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
-Remember, it's never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.

Are there occasionally exceptions to these rules? Sure. A "garage" or unsigned band might want you to download its own music; but, bands that own their own music are free to make it available legally by licensing it. And, remember that there are lots of authorized sites where music can be downloaded for free. Better to be safe than sorry — don't assume that downloading or burning is legal just because technology makes it easy to do so.

Source: http://www.musicunited.org/2_thelaw.html
"Don't you have a better way to spend five years and $250,000?"

[ravaged_warrior]

Funny song on the subject.

Once in a while
Maybe you will feel the urge.
To break into national copyright law
By downloading mp3s
From file sharing sites
Like morphous or grogster or limewire or kazza.
But deep in your Heart.
You know the guilt would drive you mad
And the shame would leave a permanent scar
Cause you start out stealing songs
Then you're robbing liquor stores
And selling Crack
And running over school kids with your car

[Chorus]
So Don't Download This Song
The record store is where you belong
Go and buy the CD like you know that you should
Oh Don't Download This Song

Oh you don't want to mess
With the R I Double A
They'll sue you if you burn that Cdr.
It doesn't matter if you're a grandma
Or a seven year old girl
They'll treat you like the evil Hard-bitten criminal scum you are

[Chorus]
So Don't Download This Song (don't go)
Pirating music all day long
Go and buy the CD like you know that you should
Oh Don't Download This Song

Don't take away money
From artists just like me
How else can I afford another solid gold Hum V
And diamond studded swimming pools
These things don't grow on trees
So all I ask is everybody Pleaseeeeee

[Chorus]
Don't Download This Song (Don't do it No No)
Even Lars Urlich Know it's wrong (You could just ask him)
Go and buy the CD like you know that you should (You Really Should)
Oh Don't Download This Song

Don't Download This Song (Oh please don't you do it or you)
Might Wind up in Jail like Tommy Chong (Remember Tommy)
Go and buy the CD (Right Now) like you know that you should (Go out and Buy it)
Oh Don't Download This Song.

Don't Download This Song (No no no no no no)
Or you'll burn in hell before to long (And you deserve it)
Go and buy the CD (Just buy it) like you know that you should (You cheap bastard!)




Not an argument or anything, just a funny song by Weird Al, who apparently became popular and successful again, which I've heard he apparently attributes to YouTube and internet downloading.

[Timber-WoIf]

Really this is a moot arguement. Piracy is stealing. the creaters of the work are being denied their just rewards. No matter what your cheesy excuse, its still stealing. and yer just proving the fact that most people cant see past thier own greed. Exactly why i have no problem with oil companies ripping people off. because i know the people being ripped off would be doing the exact same thing if tables were turned.

the only thing i will bow down too are scotts first 2 scenerios earlier on. if they aren't tryin to market it, then there shold be any problem copying it.

[ravaged_warrior]

New scenario I just found out about:

In the early '90s, Nintendo made a game for the Super Nintendo called Star Fox. It kicks a**, though more people probably the remember the even more awesome remake, Star Fox 64. Anyway, Nintendo initially planned to release a sequel, but the project was scrapped at the very end. The near finished game was released onto the internet somehow, but Nintendo was able to keep it generally unreleased, as they are a member of the ESA. Not only did Nintendo never release the game, but they don't plan to, and when asked if they planned to release it to the Wii Virtual Console, their response was "probably not". Basically, this is a game that is pretty much finished but, with the exception of anyone who was able to get their hands on the unfinished ROM, will never be played.

What is everyone's opinion on that?

[Silverclaw]

I really don't like bootleg copies of dvd and cds around. Or movies still in the theatres. Just go buy/see the real thing. It supports the people who made it, is better quality, ect, ect.
Though, I am ok with burning/downloading stuff that is no longer available to buy anywhere. For example, this band from the 80s-90s that I really like. I bought all their cds that are still in print. But their are songs on the internet that were singles and was never released on a full cd and are very rare. Perfectly fine to download. And if some wonderful day comes where I can buy them on an official cd (fat chance) I'll gladly fork out the cash for it. Same goes with ravaged_warrior's example. Nothing wrong with trying to get a copy of something that is not available officially for sale, or will be anywhere in the near future.
Now if a game/cd/movie is for sale anywhere legally, definitely buy that. No reason not to.

[MoonKit]

My opinion. You're a lazy prick who didn't want to work hard enough to make money...so you steal someone elses work. Right now there's a thread about some jerk leaking the harry Potter book. That's piracy, and people seem outraged by that...so why is it ok to steal movies and music?

You're theives, no matter what you think. Trying to justify it only hurts your argument.

Its human nature to take whats avaliable...aka steal. Be mad at the people for making it avaiable to take...not at the people who take it.

The Harry Potter thread wasnt about people stealing it. Those people paid for their book and just got it early. He was angry that he had to deal with people putting parts of the book up...not for people stealing it. Harry Potter fans are not annoyed at the piracy people. They dont give a damn how you got your book so long as you dont ruin it for them. Its two different topics.

[MattSullivan]

Moonkit, that makes no sense whatsoever. If someone takes my stuff, I have every right to be pisse doff at them, or take my stuff back by force, or prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

[Timber-WoIf]

tis human nature to fight too. but when one guy shoots someone else, we dont shake our heads and say "he shouldnta made himself so easy to kill"

[fredriksam]

Hmm. I was thinking of something. Here in Sweden we have a popular site called "Pirate Bay", where people are uploading stuff. Movies, music, programs, E-books. You name it, they got it.

It was here the potter book was posted first and they are damn proud about it. However if you browse through the files they have and the commentaries, you find that many files, especially PDF and Exe files often are infected with virus.

I have myself made some vinyl rips of extremly rare vinyls and i have had the thoughts of uploading it, but hasnt. What do you guys think about that? One of the greatest records i have is "Red Box - The Circle and the square" That one is really really rare even in vinyl format.

Speaking about the potter book, this could make the site less popular. Our newspaper where i live had pictures of the book and said the pages was very hard to read. Someone had taken photos of the pages and uploaded them that way.

How many people wanna read such antispected book on a computer monitor? Printing it out would be more expensive than buying the real thing. But STILL there where 1200 seeders. I wonder how many of them read the book that way. Plus it was only 3-4 days before the book came into the stores.

Some people

[Scott Gardener]

Though I'm an archivalist by philosophy, I don't advocate breaking the law. Do it at your own risk. And, if you do, it might not be the best course of action to confess to doing it afterwards online. Police have caught some of the people on YouTube who videotaped themselves committing crimes and "getting away with it." Posting on here that you've pirated movies or music is, technically, a confession, or at least evidence linking you to the crime. (Watch a number of posts on here disappear or get edited!)

Edit: I edited this post.

[fredriksam]

Well like i said. I havent uploading anything so no one can use it as confession. As for pirate bay, you can browse the page without downloading anything, so just being there proofs nothing.

[Morkulv]

My opinion. You're a lazy prick who didn't want to work hard enough to make money...so you steal someone elses work. Right now there's a thread about some jerk leaking the harry Potter book. That's piracy, and people seem outraged by that...so why is it ok to steal movies and music?

You're theives, no matter what you think. Trying to justify it only hurts your argument.

I'd rather be a thief then a fraud.

[MoonKit]

tis human nature to fight too. but when one guy shoots someone else, we dont shake our heads and say "he shouldnta made himself so easy to kill"

Im sure some people do.

Its a matter of morals and you know what? Nobody is right. Some people generally dont believe that stealing is bad and while most people do it doesnt prove anything. Some people dont think killing is bad. Some people think sex before marriage is almost as bad as murder. There is no actual right and wrong, you know. Its all a matter of perspective and people are going to do things that you hate. And you have every right to fight. But just remember that not everyone thinks like you and that you may not be 'right'. People are going to do what they want no matter how wrong you truly believe it is.

MoonKit...the philosopher.

[Draca]

Its human nature to take whats avaliable...aka steal.

A little deductive reasoning should solve this problem.

Premise 1: It is human nature to take what's available.
Premise 2: We are humans.
Conclusion: Therefore, humans should take what's available.

See anything wrong with this statement? It's the should in the conclusion. There's nothing in the premises to support it. It's an appeal to common practice, a logical fallacy. (A.K.A. the "but everyone else is doing it!" fallacy.) Try justifying your point without fallacies.

[MoonKit]

Its human nature to take whats avaliable...aka steal.

A little deductive reasoning should solve this problem.

Premise 1: It is human nature to take what's available.
Premise 2: We are humans.
Conclusion: Therefore, humans should take what's available.

See anything wrong with this statement? It's the should in the conclusion. There's nothing in the premises to support it. It's an appeal to common practice, a logical fallacy. (A.K.A. the "but everyone else is doing it!" fallacy.) Try justifying your point without fallacies.

Huh? You were the one who added should. I said will.

All I was trying to say was that if people are given the chance to pay for something or get it for free (at a decent quality), MOST people are going to take the free one. Whether its illegal or perfectly legal.

[MattSullivan]

Right. And if someone is presented with the opportunity to steal, they should do the dignified thing and not steal it. In the long run, you'll feel better about yourself as a person. ( you may not feel it at first )

[MoonKit]

Right. And if someone is presented with the opportunity to steal, they should do the dignified thing and not steal it. In the long run, you'll feel better about yourself as a person. ( you may not feel it at first )

Some people will never feel remorse. Not everyone cares about dignity. Some people will feel better about themselves because they didnt spend the money on it. Its just the way some people think. And of course you're not going to agree with it.

[Morkulv]

Right. And if someone is presented with the opportunity to steal, they should do the dignified thing and not steal it. In the long run, you'll feel better about yourself as a person. ( you may not feel it at first )

Are you kidding me? You seriously think that I or anyone else that ever downloaded a movie or anything will ever sit around and think "gee, I've been such a bad person... I really feel bad for the creators of that movie wich are complete strangers to me". No. Its digital bits. 0's and 1's. You don't feel remorse for that, no matter how much you hope that a person does.

Furthermore I stand by my opinion that I'm rather a thief then a fraud. And mind you; I've got a respectable DVD and CD-collection and I know what I'm talking about when I say this. Lower the prices first, then we'll talk.

[Draca]

Huh? You were the one who added should. I said will.

All I was trying to say was that if people are given the chance to pay for something or get it for free (at a decent quality), MOST people are going to take the free one. Whether its illegal or perfectly legal.

How does most people doing something make it ethical?