Body Condition Vs "THE BITE"

[Figarou]

Okay, probably wouldn't work but something I've played with is the idea that the extra mass in werewolves would be stored somewhere within the body in an ultra dense form.

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[WolvenOne]

Okay, probably wouldn't work but something I've played with is the idea that the extra mass in werewolves would be stored somewhere within the body in an ultra dense form.

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Good comparison

[Shadow Wulf]

I think lycanthropy would actually cure stuff like diabetes or cancer. think about it people. cancer and diabetes is a type of infection. regenerating fights off infection, and as far as blindness goes if the person goes though changes whynot the eyes, nails become claws and gets stronger, teeths get sharper. the eyes appearance changes its all genetics it should heal the eye from blindness, unless the person is born bling then tthe blindness is a natural thing with him but if you tell me that it cant heal the blindness then if i had a serouise burn on my hand before i transformed it want heal it . and the werewolf virus would kill the person unless thier an infant or too old, because the bones would become to weak or not formed enough as well as the heart cant take the transformation. and the virus id like to believe wouldnt rather just kill the person for the high fever, remember its steal healing the person at the same time, and plus it simply just combine with the human chromosones and blood cells, another words become one with the person, so yeah its true that if a person were to find a virus he/she would have to take it before the virus takes over by atleast 60%. the human body probally want fight it because the virus is trying to emerge with it not just killing it. look at aids and syphillas, the body dont bother fighting agients them, so no the virsus should cause a fever. the infected person would probally get high temperatures during the tranformation.

[WolvenOne]

Mmmm.... simply healing body-cells faster likely wouldn't have a barring on things like diabetes. It probably would have a barring on the immune system though which may help with cancer. However that may be countered by the fact that the cancer cells would be reproducing more quickly.

[Apokryltaros]

I think lycanthropy would actually cure stuff like diabetes or cancer. think about it people. cancer and diabetes is a type of infection.

Some kinds of infections can cause cancer. A virus may insert its DNA into a gene, and disrupt it, causing it to alter the cell and turn it cancerous, or a bacterium can produce mutagenic products (very rare in animals), or that the damage from a long-term bacterial infection has cause so much cellular damage that some surviving cells become cancerous. However, diabetes is not an infection. Diabetes occurs when the body is unable to manufacture insulin, or becomes insensitive to the effects of insulin. Insulin functions by inducing cells to take up glycogen, fyi.

Mmmm.... simply healing body-cells faster likely wouldn't have a barring on things like diabetes. It probably would have a barring on the immune system though which may help with cancer. However that may be countered by the fact that the cancer cells would be reproducing more quickly.

If it was Type I Diabetes, then I doubt that lycanthropy would fix that, as you are wholely incapable of manufacturing your own insulin. If it was Type II Diabetes, then, perhaps lycanthropy could stand a chance of curing that, as you'd be using up your glycogen for energy each time you change.

And I strongly doubt that cancer would be a problem in werewolves, as
A) I would think that a creature with such fast-replicating, or quickly-changing cells would have lots of fail-safe, fool-proof systems for repairing DNA or nuclear damage, thus minimizing, if not negating the threat of cancer.
B) You'd be surprised to how quickly one's own immune system responds to potentially cancerous cells.

[Lupin]

look at aids and syphillas, the body dont bother fighting agients them, so no the virsus should cause a fever. the infected person would probally get high temperatures during the tranformation.

The body does mount an immune reponse against HIV. The problem is that the HIV attacks the memory T-cells and the body can't mount a strong enough immune response to eradicate the virus.

[Apokryltaros]

the human body probally want fight it because the virus is trying to emerge with it not just killing it. look at aids and syphillas, the body dont bother fighting agients them, so no the virsus should cause a fever. the infected person would probally get high temperatures during the tranformation.

The HIV virus eludes the immune system, not because the immune system "doesn't bother fighting the agent," but because the protein coat mutates at a very high rate, changing its composition to fool the immune system.
Treponema pallida, the bacterial agent of syphilis, evades the immune system because it lives inside of, and in-between cells, beyond the reach of our antibodies.

[WolvenOne]

A werewolf might fare slightly better against Aids if thier immune system is being regenerated somewhat.... however, they would only fare better in regards to the other viruses that enter the system whilst the body is under the influence of aids/HIV.

My understanding is that aids and HIV in and of themselves cannot kill but because they thrash the immune system so badly common viruses can wreack havoc on those whom have it.

So they would still have aids, thier symptoms may simply not be as severe.

[Lupin]

A werewolf might fare slightly better against Aids if thier immune system is being regenerated somewhat.... however, they would only fare better in regards to the other viruses that enter the system whilst the body is under the influence of aids/HIV.

My understanding is that aids and HIV in and of themselves cannot kill but because they thrash the immune system so badly common viruses can wreack havoc on those whom have it.

So they would still have aids, thier symptoms may simply not be as severe.

Contracting lycanthropy might change the immune system enough, since it now has to deal with shifting between human/gestalt/wolf that HIV might not recognize anything any more. And shifting to full wolf and staying that way for an extended period of time would probably stop the virus in it's tracks, since it's no longer dealing with a human, pathogens tend to be pretty specific. And while it's said that HIV crossed over from apes, apes and people are more closely related than wolves and humans.

[WolvenOne]

Possibly, depends how much the immune system and everything connected to it changes from one form to another. *I'm really not much of an expert on such things so I'm merely making a guestimate most of the time.*

[Scott Gardener]

ShadowWulf:

I think lycanthropy would actually cure stuff like diabetes or cancer. think about it people. cancer and diabetes is a type of infection. regenerating fights off infection...

Uh, no. But, you might still be right in spirit.

Diabetes is the loss of pancreatic beta islet cells. This happens in two ways. In Type I Diabetes, it is indeed hypothesized that a virus may cause it, but this is uncertain. Most diabetics, however, have a combination of genetics and a history of eating too much of the wrong stuff, overloading a faulty system, causing the islet cells to burn out through overwork. In both cases, however, regeneration is hypothetically plausible. Indeed, diabetes is one of the venues in which stem cell research is suspected to hold promise.

Cancer is not just one disease, but a whole class of diseases. There are many causes and many forms, but the basic gist of it is that cells within the body itself lose their normal self-regulatory mechanisms and behave erratically, reproducing rapidly and losing their ability to stay put. Most cancer cells die off, but the survivors start selectively breeding into more aggressive cell types that invade and destroy the body.

Lycanthropy could just as conceivably cause cancer. So much of what we describe about it sounds very oncogenic--that is, very much like the kind of stuff that causes cancer. In my own stories, werewolves are somewhat more likely to get cancer than non-lycanthropes, but are less likely to die from it, because of a modified immune system and the error-correction abilities that would be neccessary to fix the cancers created by lycanthropy itself.

, and as far as blindness goes if the person goes though changes whynot the eyes, nails become claws and gets stronger, teeths get sharper....

It all depends on how the shapeshift works. Creating new cells quickly takes a lot of a metabolic rush--one cell becoming thousands in a few seconds is pretty much unbelievable. I picture werewolves instead reshuffling existing cells, stretching and re-molding them from one type to another. Still, even as I picture them, there's the potential to regenerate. (I have to fudge a bit to explain the tail, for example. You can only shove so many condensed stem cells into a coccyx.) Mine can slowly regenerate small body parts.

...the werewolf virus would kill the person unless thier an infant or too old, because the bones would become to weak or not formed enough as well as the heart cant take the transformation....

I'd certainly agree that the geriatric population would have the highest mortality rate from it; in the most extreme example, the frail and cachectic victim of chronic dementia, mortality would be almost 100%.

But, I'm inclined to think that young children would actually faire better than adults. In pediatrics, children are known to get sick quickly but get better quickly, too. Since everything is still fresh and still forming, the lycanthrope virus (or virus-like vector organism) would already have a bit less work to do physiologically. Children tolerate better high fevers and recover more quickly from physical injuries such as broken bones. An infant's small size would make the spread of the virus happen more quickly, too.

...it simply just combine with the human chromosones and blood cells...

Actually, red blood cells have no nuclei. There's nothing that would need to be changed right away. As the body breaks down and replaces the red blood cells, however, over the course of three months, I suspect that some changes would happen. My werewolves are somewhat polycythemic--that is, they have more red blood cells than normal (the opposite of anemia), and there are cell markers detectable on chemical analysis, though it would take awhile to become detectable (longer, in fact, than the time to the first transformation), and there would be much better tests for it available.

...the human body probally want fight it because the virus is trying to emerge with it not just killing it. look at aids and syphillas, the body dont bother fighting agients them, so no the virsus should cause a fever. the infected person would probally get high temperatures during the tranformation.

The immune system is not designed to think about what it does or make decisions about what to fight or not to fight. It's designed to fight off anything that doesn't fit within certain parameters.

Immune cells infected with the virus could actually be recruited to help spread the infection. (This is what happens in HIV.) But, those that are not yet infected would put up a huge fight, dumping all kinds of inflammatory compounds into the bloodstream. So, yes, I'm very much inclined to agree about the fever. In fact, I can easily see as complications of lycanthropy hemorrhagic fever (the same thing that happens with ebola) or febrile seizures (epileptic fits that happens usually in small children, when the body temperature rises above 105 degrees F / 40.5 degrees C.)

Another thing that lycanthropy could cure is atherosclerosis, the buildup of plaque in arteries. Fixing this would cure the #1 and #3 causes of death in most developed countries--heart attack and stroke. Canines don't have plaque buildup, and lycanthropic physiology would certainly benefit from fixing that problem. That problem in fact would have to be fixed in order to make shifting happen smoothly, otherwise, the hardened plaques would cut and tear into the arteries, causing death from internal hemorrhaging. Note that the process of breaking down and dissolving these plaques risks embolisms, causing strokes or heart attack, and not to mention playing havoc on the kidneys.

Lycanthropy could cause sudden death by:

Hemorrhagic fever--as explained above

Febrile seizures--as explained above; prolonged seizures can fry the brain

Other forms of prolonged seizures--from the brain not being used to getting shrunken or squeezed

Cerebral herniation (sudden coma, followed by death in an hour or so)--from the brain not shrinking or reshaping at just the right moment

Ventricular fibrillation (that's when they pull out the paddles and shout "clear!")--from problems with the electrical conduction system in the heart while it's shifting for the first time

Stroke or heart attack--in anyone old enough to have arterial plaques that could break loose while shifting. And, we've found plaques in people in their twenties.

Internal hemorrhaging--from torn blood vessels, if the atherosclerosis is really bad and still not fixed in time for the first shift.

[Shadow Wulf]

damn i knew there was going to be a loop whole somewhere in my response......there always is. next time im doing my homework before posting a reply. but cancer is a virus and werewolves should fight off any other virsus out there

but i still think a werewolf geneticswill counter just about every virus the world throws at them.

[Scott Gardener]

My intention wasn't to discourage posting thoughts. Please, if you have a thought, post it. You shouldn't feel that the entire burden of research falls on you. This is a collaboration. I happen to be a physician, so medical information is my specialty.

This isn't one of those obnoxious boards that insult you just for typing. Please, continue.

[Apokryltaros]

And while it's said that HIV crossed over from apes, apes and people are more closely related than wolves and humans.

Actually, HIV was transmitted from the Green Monkey.

[Lupin]

but cancer is a virus and werewolves should fight off any other virsus out there

Cancer isn't a virus. It's an uncontrolled growth of cells. Like Apokryltaros said, it can be caused by a virus, however.

Actually, HIV was transmitted from the Green Monkey.

It depends which group you're talking about. HIV-1 is said to have come from a similar virus usually found in chimpanzees. HIV-2 is said to come from a related virus in monkies.

[Shadow Wulf]

cmon guys, stop being so technical, your making me feel bad. but you get what im trying to say, right?

[WolvenOne]

Well, when you're discussing a werewolf's biological make-up and how thier bodies react to various medical conditions, people are gonna be technical. For this sort of a topic it's almost a neccesity.

Don't feel bad though, people correct me all the time, it's not a big deal.

[Figarou]

Well, when you're discussing a werewolf's biological make-up and how thier bodies react to various medical conditions, people are gonna be technical. For this sort of a topic it's almost a neccesity.

And the only way to discuss it is by using the technical information we have in the real world.

There is no way of knowing if an extra agent aids in the process of fast healing in a werewolf. It could be something not found in the real world.

[Shadow Wulf]

well i believe a werewolf should be able to fight off any unwanted stuff in the body. just my oppinion

[Lupin]

cmon guys, stop being so technical, your making me feel bad. but you get what im trying to say, right?

Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. Yeah, as the others have said, discussing how a werewolf 'werewolfs' is going to get a bit techincal.

(Yay, I made a verb!)

[WolvenOne]

well i believe a werewolf should be able to fight off any unwanted stuff in the body. just my oppinion

Well it's true that anything that can survive such a massivly stressful event like turning into a wolf-man at will, is probably going to be durable enough to withstand quite a lot. However as with any biological being there are going to be things that they simply won't deal with very well.

Besides, we don't want to give werewolves SO many advantages as to drastically distence them from human beings. People are defined by thier imperfections, as are human-beings-in-general.

[Vilkacis]

(Yay, I made a verb!)

Excellemundomente, personidude. Your verbogenesis creatifies, like, a source-basis of much inspirationitude for my self-entity. How can I-receiver ever repayonize you-begatter?

-- Vilkacis

[Figarou]

(Yay, I made a verb!)

Excellemundomente, personidude. Your verbogenesis creatifies, like, a source-basis of much inspirationitude for my self-entity. How can I-receiver ever repayonize you-begatter?

-- Vilkacis

Heh, I like to see all this as an adjective.



I have the feeeling I will.

[Apokryltaros]

(Yay, I made a verb!)

Excellemundomente, personidude. Your verbogenesis creatifies, like, a source-basis of much inspirationitude for my self-entity. How can I-receiver ever repayonize you-begatter?

-- Vilkacis

Heh, I like to see all this as an adjective.



I have the feeeling I will.

Want to help embiggen us all?

[Shadow Wulf]

well sorry but i felt like you guys were rubbing it in on me but that ok