The tongue.....

NightmareHero · Post by **NightmareHero** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:18 am

Have you seen Lady and the Tramp? 101 Dalmations? When in those movies where the dogs were "personified" did they have scenes where they were panting for extended periods, or slobering?

If this movie is to help us personify the characters and relate to them, then their tongues should not stick out so much that they be seen completely. They can have a big tongue, but I think for astethitic value it would look better if they kept most of it in their mouths, especially when interacting with other wolves. Or if a female were interacting with a human for that matter. I think about the point where they can lick the front of their lips would be enough. It all depends on how it looks on screen.

Why do I say this, what is my reason; association. If there is supposed to be an intimate scene with a female and a male, werewolf or otherwise, haveing a large tongue stick out would give the impression, a subconscious association for dog owners, that they are pets, not "people". Try to picture it in your head, and see if the reaction you get from the picture appeals to you, assuming you want these characters to not be associated with animals that cannot talk, and are not as intelligent as us. No disrespect to pet owners intended.

Lasthowl · Post by **Lasthowl** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:13 am

I do think this can fall under "putting too fine a point on it."

NightmareHero · Post by **NightmareHero** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:40 am

Lasthowl wrote:I do think this can fall under "putting too fine a point on it."

I don't understand, could you please explain?

Lasthowl · Post by **Lasthowl** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:45 am

It might be detail for detail's sake, and as such, a little superfluous.

We don't have to define werewolves down to how their intestines work.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:54 am

The werewolf design I've seen for this movie appears to be one with a canine muzzle, so it would make sense for them to have a big tongue like a normal canine would. Also, there's currently another thread going on concerning wether a werewolf would sweat or not, so by some definition the werewolf would pant after a period of physical stress. Ultimately though, a werewolf is still mostly human, so a panting or slobbering werewolf could indicate it's status as a rookie to the rest of the pack.

But on the whole, I don't think this is something drastic enough that we need a thread to discuss it.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:19 pm

Terastas wrote:But on the whole, I don't think this is something drastic enough that we need a thread to discuss it.

I dissagree. The presence of a long, slobbery tounge on a Werewolf could have a fairly significant effect on the viewers first impression of it. If it is the directors intention to present the Wolves in this movie as something other than slobbering monsters, then I think it is very significant if they are actually "slobbering" or not.

ABrownrigg · Post by **ABrownrigg** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:05 pm

Actually that IS a good point. As I said in another post, the presentation of these creatures is NOT as creatures of horror, the horror part comes from the human nature involved, not from the creature aspect itself. therefore the tongue hanging out of the mouth, would only be appropriate in my opinion in the same way a wolf would pant after running a distance. Fur diminishes the ability to sweat, they need to pant to keep cool.. But thats it really,I don't think it would be an emotional thing, or to show expressions of ... shal we say.. sensual interest...

Anthony Brownrigg

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:30 pm

Yeah, I agree. A werewolf tounge would be much like a real wolf's. They would pant to keep cool only. Like after running or a fight.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:43 pm

My opinion, long cannine like tongue, however I wouldn't do anything that stresses the FX budget too much, plus, I would think it'd be difficult to create a realistic looking tongue hanging out the side of a werewolfs mouth.

You know, could easily end up looking like a lifeless piece of dangling latex or whatnot if not handled right.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:50 pm

WolvenOne wrote:... I would think it'd be difficult to create a realistic looking tongue hanging out the side of a werewolfs mouth.

You know, could easily end up looking like a lifeless piece of dangling latex or whatnot if not handled right.

Panting would be logical as I see it, but I would avoid excessive "dangling". That would just look silly.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:54 pm

what I mean, is, well, tongues have a certain texture to them, as well as a bit of life and movment that may be difficult to replicate with a prostetic. There's a chance that any prostetic, no matter how well done, just may not look right, you simply run the risk of the tongue looking like a piece of dangling latex.

I would almost think that heavy panting would need to be done by CG. Then again, I'm not an expert on this subject.

Treads Lightly · Post by **Treads Lightly** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:02 am

I agree that panting for no reason would look odd, but it would make sense if the poor werewolf had just been running for his life, for example.

With some creative camera shots, a real canine could stand in for the CGI. I can imagine a quick shot of the muzzle with puffs of steamy breath and a real tongue in silhouette. Then change to a different angle, perhaps of him hiding and holding his breath to conceal himself or whatever. I honestly couldn’t see long scenes of werewolves with their tongues hanging out, that’s just weird

Nouska · Post by **Nouska** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:43 pm

Meh, I don't know if this is even relevant or if you care. I think I'm suffering from newbieism

From my experience with my two dogs, panting doesn't always have to involve a long slobbering tongue. It can be sensibily be in the mouth. I guess it just the length of the hunt that changes it.

And panting can have other reasons. One of my dogs pants when he's happy (like if you're stroking him) the other pants when he's frightened during a thunderstorm or what not.

LoupGarou · Post by **LoupGarou** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:09 pm

From my experience,i had 4 dogs,when dogs pant with their tongues dangling,is usually when they are really tired or when its really hot outside,

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:01 pm

Now think of this situation...

When human males needs to scratch thier private part, we use are hands. Wolves/dogs...well, we know what they do. What about the male werewolf? Whats he going to use? Its going to be a funny scene if he doesn't use his hands!!

LoupGarou · Post by **LoupGarou** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:52 pm

i think Brian from Family Guy can asnwer that question,although he acts like a human,he still licks his you know what.
I guess some habits are a little tougher to break.

Darth Canis · Post by **Darth Canis** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:45 am

i would like to think that the pups and young inexperienced werewolves will the only ones panting and slobbering. Although many dogs have a certain opened mouth grin when they are excited and happy that usually includes panting. So you could attribute that also to wolves or even werewolves at play. So that could be another instance for that action.

Bladewing · Post by **Bladewing** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:45 am

Good idea.

I don't think their tongues should stick out and pant rapidly. It makes them too dog like. They are half human technically, and their appearance is dog-ish enough. Maybe have their tongues stick out at certain points though, to add to the mood of the scene. Like if the werewolf is about to chase a human/werewolf running away.

ANTIcarrot. · Post by **ANTIcarrot.** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:04 am

Dogs slobber mostly because we've ****ed around with their genes so much the mouth in many breeds simply isn't a good fit any more. If you're talking about drool... Well, human do that as well. You wake up in the morning with a wet patch on the pillow - you haven't been crying in the night. ;)

Drooling/salivating because of other reasons is something both species do as well. Food or mating can both trigger it. You know a dog or a wolf is *really* interested in something they're staring at when they work their jaws and then swallow. And/or lick their lips. As others have said it's also a sign of enjoyment.

Keep the drool where appropiet, and the long tounge, but only show them when a wolf would. Doing otherwise seems fooliosh to me, like making the ears unmovable. Or leaving out half the fur.
Or making the knees bend forwards during the change.

ANTIcarrot.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:20 am

ANTIcarrot. wrote: Or making the knees bend forwards during the change.

Let it be known that I will break someone's knees if they have the knees bend backwards....

WordWolf · Post by **WordWolf** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Personally,
I think the movie people got the message.

I think this thread went as far as it's going to and actually remain useful.