Lycanthrope Society and Sexuality

[Marcwolf]

Hi All.. Back again...

Interesting topic.. Lets look at a couple of things.

Firstly - Would werewolves follow the standard pack structure or be more looser.

This is very important as it would mean that there be only ONE mating pair in the group (the Alpha's) and the rest would not mate.

If the pack structure is looser then other members may mate.

Either way I'd feel that monogamy may be the norm but other relationships will work also.

With Gay and Lesbian wolves. I think they would be accepted for a couple of reasons.

Firstly - it is unlikely that a hetro werewolf could see a gay werewolf for sex. And same sex interests are no real threat to the breeding rights of the leaders nor introduce cubs not sired by the leaders).

Also a gay or lesbian werewolf can still offer valuable support in the pack - hunting, looking after cubs, doing other skills. Often gay or lesbian people are viewd are more spiritual in some societies so they might even be the Shamans

Its also interesting to note that now-a-days homosexuality within animals (including wolves) have been documented and accepted. It has been observed before but discarded mainly due to bias and religious viewpoints.

If there is any prejudice to gay and lesbian werewolves it would be more from the human influence rather than the wolf.
Many primitive societies do accept same sex couples, and it is usually by the intervention of certain religious factions that starts the objections.

Just the views of a white muzzle

Marcwolf

[Scott Gardener]

I would expect werewolves to have the same diverse gamit of opinions about lifestyle preference as standard humans, with two notable exceptions.

First, being different and having a secret would create a point of reference for empathy with homosexuals.

And next, there's the more drematic issue of bestiality, since you've got human form, wolf form, and Gestalt form, and in some timelines anything in between; and, your life partner has the same. So, there's many different ways to plug tab B into slot A.

Some might be adverse to doing anything other than mating in human form. Others might see this as the equivalent of the "misisonary position," and would be open to all kinds of stuff otherwise known only in yiff literature.

[ChaosWolf]

I would expect werewolves to have the same diverse gamit of opinions about lifestyle preference as standard humans, with two notable exceptions.

First, being different and having a secret would create a point of reference for empathy with homosexuals.

And next, there's the more drematic issue of bestiality, since you've got human form, wolf form, and Gestalt form, and in some timelines anything in between; and, your life partner has the same. So, there's many different ways to plug tab B into slot A.

Some might be adverse to doing anything other than mating in human form. Others might see this as the equivalent of the "misisonary position," and would be open to all kinds of stuff otherwise known only in yiff literature.

I'd say this one best fits my personal opinions on the subject.

Scott, get out of my mind. You might get hurt or lost in there.

[whereismydemon]

Here is my view (not to say your views are wrong or bad, they are all equally good no matter what they are, because these aren't the final choices yet): if you plan on making the werewolves lose intelligence when they change from human to werewolf form, then i agree with the pack style setup of true wolves. if you will allow them to keep their intelligence then they should still have the same views on mating, marriage, and courtship as humans do. if they only lose part of their human intelligence then you can try some sort of mixture of these that most of the general public would agree on, you would want to have an audience that likes the film and recommends it to others for viewing.

[RedEye]

I suspect that Were's would take from Smooth society what works well in mating behaviours, and discard what doesn't. Remember, these are a mix of Heritage and Cross-over were's. The Heritage Were's would form the Pack's backbone...and the Crossers would be the effective Gammas in the Pack.
Whether they came from Were' or Human Society...they all come from human stock, and live in contemporary society with Humans. The peer pressure from Human society would be extreme. That would affect the Pack dynamics one way or another. As well, the local Cinema situation could impact the Pack: How'd you feel if there were Movies being made about you that were pure trash...and you weren't able to even grumble about it? This would have to affect the Were'-Smooth relations a bit...or a lot. Take a look at the U.S. during the Pre-Civil Rights era for a clue.
As to Were'-Smooth matings (Weremakings) one supposes that it would be on a tiered set of steps. First: sniffing out...Is this Smooth capable of Keeping a secret as dynamic as Werewolf Existence? There would probably be something like "I know somebody....", then seeing if the person coould keep the secret, perhaps even while being twitted by other were's, trying to draw them out. Then...Introduction: "That person I was talking about..is me." This is the riskiest point. There would HAVE to be some sort complete denyability, should it not work out. If things still work out...then, Induction. One suspects these pairings would be very tight, regardless of the rest of the pack's attitudes toward sex. The amount of Personal investment is immense. The actual Mating...or Making (if Were' isn't sexually transmissable (a first)). There might be some ceremony here, it's ripe for it.
Some packs might be principally sustained by taking in Smooth humans as Werewolves...others might be self-sustaining. I suspect every pack would be different in that respect.
AND...there might be a Town or two that is Principally Werewolf. Out-of- the-Way little places, but towns where Were's and Smooths live side-by-side (possible) as members of a decidedly odd society. Hmmm...there's a story there, methinks.
To sum up, My opinion is that Werewolves would be as different as their Human correspondants. Just as every town is different, yet the same; I'd suspect that would apply to Were's, as well. We are an adaptive species.....

[strykeriuswolf]

The only thing that i do have to say on this on because it can be a touchy subject and people my be offended that i have to agree with what Marcwolf had said. He does have a strong point and i say props to ya!

Strykerius Wulf

[Dreamer]

Only about 3 percent of the 4,000 mammal species are monogamous (and Homo sapiens isn't one of them).

Interesting. I kind of wonder what sort of mating structure humanity should adapt to incorporate human's desire for sexual variety yet provide enough stability to raise children.

Anyway, on the wolves, why not both. They could posess the human capasity for promiscuity and yet still be constantly looking for that special someone as a lifemate.

[Terastas]

Another thing is a factor as well. Most females, or people in general for that matter, won't fight back. They just plain won't. The most the average person does is squirm a bit and say "Let go of me!" with no conviction whatsoever. They let themselves become victims and then whine because some bad person did something to them. Something that could've easily been prevented.

Then there's the problem of human laws. You hit someone, you get arrested. You can claim self defense but it comes down to whether or not they believe you. The guy could claim the woman assaulted him and file charges if he has any bruises to show for it. Lovely world isn't it? Some worthless slimeball tries to rape you and you're the one who ends up in jail.

I hate to say it, but Set's right. It's like the first homework assignment in Fight Club -- the predominant instinct regarding conflict is to avoid it altogether.

For a werewolf, that need to avoid conflict would be twofold because going to the police isn't exactly an option; who's to say a rape kit couldn't possibly reveal other personal details. She also couldn't really use her lycanthropy to fight back, because that leads to two possible scenarios, both of which are bad: Either the rapist gets away with his life and the pack has a witness they have to worry about, or the werewolf kills him and the pack has a crime scene they have to worry about. They could possibly initiate him into the pack, but come on, what pack in their right mind would want a rapist in their numbers; that's just begging the police and/or monster hunters to come find them. The only way a pack could hope to handle it would be to keep tabs on him after the fact and quietly take him out before he finds out he's got lycanthropy the hard way (IE: the full moon).

[RedEye]

There's another way as well: Kidnap him the night before the Full Moon, then after he does the first Shift; turn the Pack's bitches loose on him.

I've seen what happens in a Wolf pack during a b**** fight.
Not Nice....

[Terastas]

There's another way as well: Kidnap him the night before the Full Moon, then after he does the first Shift; turn the Pack's bitches loose on him.

I've seen what happens in a Wolf pack during a b**** fight.
Not Nice....

Why would you want to empower him first?

Plus, like I said, the pack wouldn't want the kind of crime scene a pack of angry werewolves would leave behind. Ideally, the pack would want the police to find him and think he was just another random murder victim. You know, slit his throat, snap his neck or something like that.

[Avareis]

There's another way as well: Kidnap him the night before the Full Moon, then after he does the first Shift; turn the Pack's bitches loose on him.

I've seen what happens in a Wolf pack during a b**** fight.
Not Nice....

Why would you want to empower him first?

Plus, like I said, the pack wouldn't want the kind of crime scene a pack of angry werewolves would leave behind. Ideally, the pack would want the police to find him and think he was just another random murder victim. You know, slit his throat, snap his neck or something like that.

Or disappear entirely? Either way, the evidence is removed for such a society to exist. Of course, how many werewolves would be in the police enforcement, having an inside man as it were?...Protect and Serve.

I'd say that there would be a period where a new werewolf would be under the supervision of guardians, in order to ensure that they will not tell others of what they've seen and of course for the benefit of that individual to make sure his health isn't in danger.
Bringing in a new member into a society of such is always risky, that's given. Duu! But, you know, you can't just pick anyone. That society would have to do a background check, including his bloodlines to make sure he's "safe" to be let in. I think you've heard the slogan, "Get tested." An AIDS test might be a cover in such a werewolf story. I'd like to write a story about that sort of thing, about the structure of a werewolf society.

As for sex? I'm not going to go there. What is in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. I rather not think about fuzzy things when it comes to that. But, like human beings, werewolve would need to use protection to prevent infection of diseases and such, in and outside of the 'family'. Question: How many werewolves are traditional catholics? You know?!

[Dreamer]

As for sex? I'm not going to go there. What is in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. I rather not think about fuzzy things when it comes to that. But, like human beings, werewolve would need to use protection to prevent infection of diseases and such, in and outside of the 'family'. Question: How many werewolves are traditional catholics? You know?!

Very few in my stories, because in my world the Catholic church created the organization that took advantage of the schism within the main organization of the European packs to create the hunters organization (Although they split when the church lightended their views a bit) that obliterated the organization of the packs (although the werewolves were able to reoganize after a few-hundred years), and the were's can't forgive the church for that. If they were a Catholic before being turned however, they are somewhat grudgingly okay with it.

[Silent Hunter]

Or disappear entirely? Either way, the evidence is removed for such a society to exist. Of course, how many werewolves would be in the police enforcement, having an inside man as it were?...Protect and Serve.

If the rapist went missing then it could lead to a full scale manhunt which would have the police combing though local area's. They would look for any sign and any stuff of his that would be found or dropped. It would be fingerprint checked, DNA checked etc. They might find something rather odd to put it lightly. Plus if the guy is not known for being a rapist then he might have many family, friends and colleuges that would push the case on. One inside were would not stop this and it would look rather odd.

So making it look like a normal random murder would work best.

[Terastas]

If the rapist went missing then it could lead to a full scale manhunt which would have the police combing though local area's.

Exactly. When a person goes missing, regardless of what kind of person he is, people will look for him.

If he leads a decent respectable life on the surface: Search and rescue.
If he's a known criminal: Manhunt.

Either way, the werewolves are going to have authorities swarming all over their woodland getaways.

Also, regarding religion, I seriously doubt any would be Catholic. Organized religion overall has a bad reputation for discriminating against and persecuting anyone different from themselves, so Catholicism etc. would have a big negative stigma for werewolves. A werewolf could be a Christian, but there'd be too much negative stigma with organized religion overall for him/her to be Christian in identity. They might believe in Christianity, but not share it.

[Silent Hunter]

I'm willing to bet any Catholic Were would keep it his shameful secret. They could see it as a test or punishment by god or some spell Satan has cast. It could though drive some suicidal.

For the more liberal Christians who got bitten it may be less of a shame to them. Sure they would not tell the church but they could possibly form their own Were church.

[RedEye]

For that matter, Werewolves could form their own particular religion; based either on Christianity or perhaps older beliefs...since societies make religions in their own image, anyway.

[Silent Hunter]

Yeah. You will also get more natural orirntated religions followed by Were's.

You'd a varity of belif's all over the world. Same goes for G/L/B/T Were's. Some would accept them and other would not. Some would be mixed too. You'd also might get G/L/B/T packs.

[ChaosWolf]

Yeah. You will also get more natural orirntated religions followed by Were's.

You'd a varity of belif's all over the world. Same goes for G/L/B/T Were's. Some would accept them and other would not. Some would be mixed too. You'd also might get G/L/B/T packs.

A pack of lesbian werewolves?

[Silent Hunter]

Possibly if a group of lesbian Weres got together.

[MoonKit]

And then there's the matter of birth control...

I always assumed their using "the pill" if they're messing around in all different forms.

[Silent Hunter]

Depends what form they...erm...mate for fun in.

Human? Condom probebly, maybe the pill too.

Were? Pill if it does not lose effect or harm a Were. Keeping their paws of each other works to.

[RedEye]

Why not simply have heats? The rest of the time, nothing is needed; and during heat/rut/whatever-just use whatever works.

There's the Humanity in the Werewolf: making sexuality into a major big hairy THING and worrying it to death.

There is some possibility that there would be physical limitations brought on by bodily conformation...Canids are rather limited physically; but add in Human ingenuity...

And, why wouldn't Were's take the best of what's Human, and the best of what's Wolf; and add to it?
Everybody else does...

[Kzinistzerg]

...

Are you a woman? Let me check your profile...

...mmmmm seems to indicate no.

Heat? NEVER! Periods are bad enough, having something like that would eb worse. So much worse. Horrible. Humans go nuts enough once a month, do you really think werewolves would need more o' that?

[ChaosWolf]

What's really bad?

When "that time of the month" coincides with "THAT time of the month".

[MoonKit]

Guys, dogs in heat bleed a little. I think that would probably be a turn off to a lot of werewolf men considering they still have their human mind too. Thats why I hate those werewolf romance novels. Totally unrealistic!