Pastafarianism

takyoji · Post by **takyoji** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:57 am

Just curious, are any of you Pastafarianists? For those who don't know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism
And as another resource: http://www.venganza.org/

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:08 am

Funny me an Z were just talking about this last night. I however won't say much on the matter here due to it being a religious topic. People tend to be touchy about their faith an could find this a tad offensive which I respect...

takyoji · Post by **takyoji** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:10 am

Ahh, true. I don't have the intent of raising arguments, otherwise I could just delete this topic.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:15 am

takyoji wrote:Ahh, true. I don't have the intent of raising arguments, otherwise I could just delete this topic.

We know you don't tak. You could just leave it open to see wat comes of it.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:18 am

I'm sorry but i just busted out laughing when i read that!!!

Who ever actually believes that needs to get their head examined.

Then again....

People believe in scientology, and there are people who actually worship H.P. Lovecraft's Cuthulu.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:25 am

This is even funnier then scientology.

Dreamer · Post by **Dreamer** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:10 pm

Anubis wrote:People believe in scientology, and there are people who actually worship H.P. Lovecraft's Cuthulu.

There are people who actually beleive in Cthulhu? I'm intrigued, tell me more.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:12 pm

I like Pastafarians but aren't one myself.

Who ever actually believes that needs to get their head examined

Pastafarians don't (for the most part) entirely believe it. The FSM is an argument against Intelligent design/creationism. It's to point out how silly the idea is.

Afterall, if a bearded man in a toga can create the universe, why can't a flying, hard-drinking pirate-loving spaghetti monster?

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:24 pm

Infidels! How dare you mock the Sacred Flying Spaghetti monster? (cheese optional at a small extra fee)

Besides, the game is one of the few I can play well...

Set · Post by **Set** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:50 pm

*reads*

Oh, that just wins. I like this.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:19 pm

Dreamer wrote:
Anubis wrote:People believe in scientology, and there are people who actually worship H.P. Lovecraft's Cuthulu.

There are people who actually beleive in Cthulhu? I'm intrigued, tell me more.

this guy thinks it real, and set up a real cthuthulu cult.
http://www.cultofcthulhu.net/index2.htm

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:06 pm

What a great idea.

Kaebora · Post by **Kaebora** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:06 am

The Eight "I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts" is classic, and the world would be a better place if those issues were more directly discussed in the Bible. LoL!

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:20 am

(sigh) The Bible is more noted for Mandates and Orders than Discussions.

That's it's greatest weakness. People don't like to be told what to do any more, they prefer to have it reasoned out so they can understand it.

There are still enough people who don't want to think on their own, however, to keep all the "Justification by Faith" churches well funded; even when the "Justification" requires more suspense-of-reality than reading a science fiction novel.

I suspect that there always will be: thinking makes one responsible for one's thoughts.

And Puh-Leeze: this is not a slam at Christianity or the Bible. It's an observation, nothing more.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:27 pm

Pastafarianism was created as a parody for the sake of a reductio ad absurdum argument against requiring teaching "Intelligent Design" in American school curricula.

(A "reductio ad absurdum" argument is a form of inductive logic that takes a stated premise and states that if it is true, then a particular absurd conclusion would also be true, and therefore the original argument must be flawed.)

Intelligent Design is a contemporary reinvention of Creationism, arguing that the complexity of life today could not have occurred by random chance alone, and thus our existence is proof of God's existence. I'll avoid a detailed discussion of the flaws of such arguments--I believe personally that there is a God, but I do not advocating using this argument to substantiate it, as the principles of evolution are extremely well supported, the entropy argument (that life has increased in complexity "uphill" against entropy over 4.6 billion years) falls flat when one factors in how much energy the sun has poured into the system, and my own particular model of God does not require literal interpretation of one particular religious text and a need to coerce all other data into substantiating it.

The inventor of Pastafarianism concocted it in a letter to a school board, arguing that if Intelligent Design could be taught along-side science, then his own hypothetical religion should be taught as well. He then proceeded to invent a model of God as a "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and worshippers as people who dress as pirates in honor of those ancient seafarers, whose dwindling numbers today are causing global warming.

The later point, that the decline in numbers of pirates through the years is causing global warming, was an argument reductio ad absurdum to illustrate the difference between correlation and causation. A graph showing the numbers of pirates from 1600 to today declining and the increase in global average temperatures does not neccessarily mean that the two have anything to do with each other. (Technically, incidence of piracy on the ocean has not declined, and modern pirates are a serious problem for merchants as far as along the Amazon river to the southern Philippines. But, that's beside the point being made.)

OK, actually following the link above shows that this is already covered. OK, ignore my blathering.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:37 pm

Actually, I look with great favor on the "Intelligent Design" crowd. Their existence means that the "Creationism" people are feeling just a bit exposed and weak in their positions.
It means that "Creationists" are beginning to realize that very few are buying into their flawed interpretation of history; especially in the face of completely neutral evidence that the Universe and Earth are far, far older than they wiill admit it could be.
In short, they see the handwriting on the wall. They don't like what they see, either. Hence, they twist evolution into intelligent design.
It's clever, yes; but still wrong-unless we are all in a Science-Fiction universe.
If that's the case, where's my flying car? What? Matt Sullivan's diving it?
I want it back!

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:41 pm

I really cant wrap my head around the fact that people really believe in Creationism. I suppose they feel the same about us.

Morkulv · Post by **Morkulv** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:18 pm

I think there are some straight angles on creationism, although not in a traditional way or something.

Templar · Post by **Templar** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:00 pm

Aw yeah, that's what Ms. Garrison was talkin' about in that South Park Episode. This all reminds of those mutant guys at the end of that Planet of the Apes sequel (The original sequel, not the 2001 hack), the ones that worship the bomb. It cracked me up when they sang about the "heavenly fallout".

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:10 am

I believe in a higher power of some sort--though I am not entirely sure of the nature of that higher power.

Despite that, it doesn't bother me when people say they believe in nothing. I'm not even sure WHAT I believe, so it would be pretty darn hard for me to get offended. I've read about the Flying Spaghetti Monster before, and thought it was hilarious. I really want a T-Shirt with that guy on it.

The only thing that really bothers me in regards to religion is when people act all high-and-mighty about their beliefs, or lack thereof, as if they KNOW they're right. You think you're right, you believe you're right, but you can never KNOW, and therefore everyone should always respect anything anyone else chooses to believe (or not believe).

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:34 am

Renorei wrote:I believe in a higher power of some sort--though I am not entirely sure of the nature of that higher power.

The only thing that really bothers me in regards to religion is when people act all high-and-mighty about their beliefs, or lack thereof, as if they KNOW they're right. You think you're right, you believe you're right, but you can never KNOW, and therefore everyone should always respect anything anyone else chooses to believe (or not believe).

Well, that's called "Justification by Faith" and is a really big thing in the Bible belt. Essentially, it's "This is what I believe, and all the evidence to the contrary can be explained away as either error or the work of the Devil." Yeah, it's arrogant and egotistical, but it gets people through a lot of grief and trouble with their faith unshaken.
Religion is about faith. There is no evidence that "Deity" of any sort exists, outside of faith. That faith has managed to keep people going through fire, flood, and tornadoes and as such deserves respect.

Unfortunately, some people will try to make Faith superior to Science. Some people think that their version of "faith" is the only game in town, or should be the only one, anyhow. Then it stops being "faith" and becomes dogma, which is used to justify actions that are neither legal nor moral nor even upright. "Faith" becomes a weapon to hurt people with, and force them to think in one and only one way. It becomes the antithesis of "faith". It becomes evil, seeking only destruction of those who are different, or who dare to disagree.
So human. So stupid. So sad. Because when you get down to it; "faith" is the only thing we have that leads us to the eternal and unknowable.
Everything else is dogma and ritual. Fine for you, if you like it; but not something to force on anyone else. Ever.

Renorei · Post by **Renorei** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:48 am

I agree. Dogma = bad.

That said, I've known more than one atheist who was as "dogmatic" (if the term even applies here) as some spiritual people. It's just as annoying to have some Christian shoving their views down my throat as it is to have an atheist shoving their lack of beliefs down my throat, making condescending comments about anyone who chooses to believe anything. For me, it's as simple as this: As long as everyone leaves everyone else alone, respects everyone else's beliefs (or lack thereof) and doesn't try to interfere with the government on account of their beliefs, we'll all be fine (granted, we haven't matured enough as a species to a point where that's possible yet).

I've never felt that science or the existence of scientific discoveries should be a threat to religion (if anything, that simply means that the higher power, if it exists, is even greater than we initially thought and we should be pleased). We ought to teach what science has proven to us. Do not teach them that any particular God exists, but ALSO (and this is just as important) NEVER teach them that there is no God. We do not know these things, and never will. Let the children come to conclusions about those things on their own.

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:00 pm

Wouldnt it be funny if thousands of years from now, the archaeologists of the future thought this was the main religion?

Probably be even funnier if in the future, this WAS our religion.

Baphnedia · Post by **Baphnedia** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:06 pm

Well, it's very possible - especially considering that in the latest US Census, about 200,000 people (I think) listed The Force as their religion. The future looks good for Pastafarianism.

Howlitzer · Post by **Howlitzer** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:07 pm

haha...FSMism....wow.

yeah that one's popular among my friends...

I can see how some might find it disrespectful...but seriously. It's a very amusing, rather clever parody....

me personally....i'm agnostic. Not the indecisive view of agnosticism that my atheistic friends ridicule... in fact a couple of them see religion as stupid and agnosticism as a viewpoint not even worthy of any respectful consideration....as a result I carefully avoid such conversations with them.

But I prefer to think of it as acknowledging that humans vastly overestimate their knowledge of how things really do work, so why delude myself into committing to any one explanation and shutting out the rest? Not to say that I won't find something ridiculous and then not even bother considering it...but still,

I mean, we've got almost as many scientific theories of the workings of the universe as we have religions... (ok possibly an exaggeration, but i trust you see my point)....so what's to say we're even close to the right answer, if there is one?

But yeah, people who force religion, or for that matter ANY ethical or political viewpoint, really piss me off...especially if they see themselves as morally superior because they hold the "correct" stance. Having said that, vegans scare me.

In terms of requiring teaching intelligent design along side evolution in school...no. It should not be a requirement... I mean, in certain situations, to prevent any big stink, it's reasonable to present that evolution is only a theory (and it IS only a theory, this is true, but it explains things very well). Actually teaching intelligent design should be left for actual churches and bible schools where RELIGION based classes are taught, not in a public school's biology class. If parents have a problem, well, they can enroll their kid in a bible study class.