Werewolf cliches?

bar1scorpio · Post by **bar1scorpio** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:35 am

Werewolf not always the antagonist... Van Helsing's transformation into the good guy werewolf was pretty bad@$$ as well. It's just incredibly rare that any werewolf group is shown to be non-dysfunctional.

As for Were-Goth. Never seen it. Usually they seem to be bikers/punk rock, though. But not walking-dead-emo-goth.

Were- wedgies. WLP's Bootleg #7... I did a 2-page transformation gag, girl turning into a wolf, ripping through her clothing (although her stubborn panties refuse to give way.... in a painful manner)... and that was actually the start of what eventually became PitW.

And of course, the wedgie wars of Fred Perry's Gold Digger.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:57 am

As for Were-Goth. Never seen it. Usually they seem to be bikers/punk rock, though. But not walking-dead-emo-goth.

I've never seen any of these biker/punker werewolves myself.

But THESE i've seen everywhere.

bar1scorpio · Post by **bar1scorpio** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:10 am

kitetsu wrote:
As for Were-Goth. Never seen it. Usually they seem to be bikers/punk rock, though. But not walking-dead-emo-goth.
I've never seen any of these biker/punker werewolves myself.

But THESE i've seen everywhere.

Actually, I was thinking immediately of the movie Skinwalkers.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:48 pm

Skinwalkers shows how well a dork-rec-tor can ruin a concept. The entire picture was actually painful to watch, because I happen to know the person who did the film treatment for the thing. She was so horrified by what had been done that she walked out less than halfway through the flick (and since she was my date...so did I). I DVD'd it later, and she missed the worst parts, fortunately.
Now she hates Werewolves (actually any transfroming beast-man) and won't help me with marketing my novel about...yep, Werewolves.
Dammit squared. She had contacts...

The Cliche' Werewolf is a staple that Hollywood sticks to because it makes money. It has a designated audience share. What a waste.

Unless you happened to BE one, that is. Then (if they existed) they'd be right up front demanding more standard Werewolf stuff; more gore, more angst, more of what Hollywood excels at. Then every flick that comes out makes hiding in plain sight that much easier, since they don't fit the mold. Think about it: Lupans would love this stuff, since it steers people away from them and toward a fantastic unreal creature that nobody would really believe in, anyhow.
The Cliche Werewolf would be a shield for the real Werewolves, if they really existed and needed to hide from people. Call it what it is: Classic Mis-Direction...every stage magician uses it to some degree.
As would the Children of the Wolf...

bar1scorpio · Post by **bar1scorpio** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:13 pm

well, I never actually saw skinwalkers, just the trailers...

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:06 pm

bar1scorpio wrote:well, I never actually saw skinwalkers, just the trailers...

Don't. It's really not worth the non-sequitur gunfights.

Skinwalkers shows how well a dork-rec-tor can ruin a concept. The entire picture was actually painful to watch, because I happen to know the person who did the film treatment for the thing. She was so horrified by what had been done that she walked out less than halfway through the flick (and since she was my date...so did I). I DVD'd it later, and she missed the worst parts, fortunately.
Now she hates Werewolves (actually any transfroming beast-man) and won't help me with marketing my novel about...yep, Werewolves.
Dammit squared. She had contacts...

I sincerely hope you make an effort to convince her not to act like that permanently, because pulling off a stunt like that is sometimes just as counterproductive as hiring a dickhead for a director/exec. producer/writer.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:12 pm

bar1scorpio wrote:well, I never actually saw skinwalkers, just the trailers...

So? Trrrrrust me. You saw the best scenes in the entire picture...

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:50 pm

Wolfzilla wrote:Uh....what? Could you point me to the movie were the vampire kicks the werewolf's a**? Werewolves are always stronger than vampires in modern fiction, the only way vampires and werewolves are ever equal is if the vampire is a elder, and even then the werewolf always winds up winning, even if the werewolf has never shifted before and has been in his wolf form for like....ten minutes, and the vampire is a five thousand plus year old super vamp who rips apart tanks with his mind.

Typically Hollywood prefers vampires because, from a prosthetic mindset, they're just humans with fangs and bad makeup. That's why vampires usually take center stage, and in turn why they get more kills in.

The worst offender in terms of the "vampire over werewolves" cliche was Underworld. I can't speak for the sequel, but in the original, the only werewolf to ever kill a vampire in were form was Raze. First he got somebody in the subway in the opening sequence, then it was hinted that he nailed that black guy with the British accent. . . And that was it! But all through the rest of the movie it was blazing guns and dieing werewolves. And the worst was definitely when Viktor killed Raze. He didn't even fight; he just lifted him up by the throat like he was a blow-up doll. A skinny, pasty old man throwing around a seven-odd ft. hulking monster -- that aint' right.

RedEye wrote:Unless you happened to BE one, that is. Then (if they existed) they'd be right up front demanding more standard Werewolf stuff; more gore, more angst, more of what Hollywood excels at. Then every flick that comes out makes hiding in plain sight that much easier, since they don't fit the mold. Think about it: Lupans would love this stuff, since it steers people away from them and toward a fantastic unreal creature that nobody would really believe in, anyhow.
The Cliche Werewolf would be a shield for the real Werewolves, if they really existed and needed to hide from people. Call it what it is: Classic Mis-Direction...every stage magician uses it to some degree.

Actually, it can go both ways. If something becomes too cliche, it becomes "truth," and truths are hard to dispel. Werewolves might not be bloodthirsty monsters, but a lot of people out there, thanks to Hollywood, can't think of werewolves as being anything other than bloodthirsty monsters. That might make it easier for a werewolf to go undetected, but in the unfortunate event that someone does discover someone is a werewolf, they will more often than not make assumptions about the real life werewolf based on what they saw in the movies and assume him to be a bloodthirsty monster. So there's a pro and a con to Hollywood misdirection.

Back to the list. We've mentioned the girl just standing there screaming, but I don't think anyone's mentioned what usually comes before that:

Werewolf: "It's a beautiful night, isn't it? The moon is. . . You have to leave. Now."

Now I know there's a full moon once every other night in your typical werewolf movie, but that's still a set cycle. Shouldn't a werewolf know when the next full moon is? Shouldn't he have made plans that don't involve being out in the woods or the park with his girlfriend in the middle of the night? Apparently amnesia is a common side effect of lycanthropy, cuz' more often than not these dunderheads forget they are werewolves until the full moon is staring right at them. What's wrong Romeo? Did you think that was the last one you'd ever see again?

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:27 am

May i also like to point out that almost everybody liked Thundercats (maybe) because they look more human than animalistic. And it's for that reason that i hated it, because i thought it felt like pretending to be something i'm not when i can just become the best of both worlds.

Wolfzilla · Post by **Wolfzilla** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:07 pm

And the worst was definitely when Viktor killed Raze. He didn't even fight; he just lifted him up by the throat like he was a blow-up doll. A skinny, pasty old man throwing around a seven-odd ft. hulking monster -- that aint' right

Viktor was a very old vampire, an Elder. Vampires tend to get stronger as they get older in most modern fiction, and as Underworld is generally a rip off of the White Wolf RPG games, which have pretty much set a standard in the genera as we see it today, it would make sense if Underworld vamps followed the same rule. It is also hinted at that Viktor was the first vampire, which would make him very old, very expireanced. Raze on the other hand seemed to be pretty young werewolf, so it would make sense if Viktor was able to outmatch him in strength.