Science POWER

[Night_Hunter]

Alright I'm new but I think I saw about a thousand reasons for why a werewolf could come about. But can we try to explain the powers a werewolf has?

1) Strength = giant muscles created by super proteins manufactured by a WW high metabolic rate
2) Senses = obvious
3) Heightened Sexual Appeal = modified pheromones possibly an evolutionary tactic to keep the species going
4) Regeneration = heightened metabolic rate created a heightened healing ability

And where does the extra mass go when a man goes from 5' 9" to a 7 foot tall giant wolf-beast with extra bones and more tissue than before. WHERE DOES IT ALL GO!?

[RedEye]

Alright I'm new but I think I saw about a thousand reasons for why a werewolf could come about. But can we try to explain the powers a werewolf has?

1) Strength = giant muscles created by super proteins manufactured by a WW high metabolic rate
2) Senses = obvious
3) Heightened Sexual Appeal = modified pheromones possibly an evolutionary tactic to keep the species going
4) Regeneration = heightened metabolic rate created a heightened healing ability

And where does the extra mass go when a man goes from 5' 9" to a 7 foot tall giant wolf-beast with extra bones and more tissue than before. WHERE DOES IT ALL GO!?

The question is more properly, Where does it all come from? Mass doesn't just grow on trees.

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

it almost sounds like if your to shift, you'd have to eat more than your body weight, and maybe more during the process of shifting.

[Howlitzer]

true...mass can't be created on demand, especially in your body....it can only be reconfigured.

So, you can NOT take a 5'9" man and turn him into a 7' tall wolf beast with more mass than before, so no muscles and bones coming from nowhere. That would break these annoying things called the laws of Physics.

if you want a 5'9" man to become a 7 foot tall giant wolf beast, well, they can't truly be a normal 5'9" tall man to start out with immediately before the transformation...

possible solution: denser bones, denser muscles. It's possible. That way, when the person is in human form they may appear within the realm of acceptable normalcy....but they'll have to have the same total mass, same bone mass, same muscle mass, as they do after they transform... all the materials are *there*, it's just squished into a slightly smaller package.

as for hulking big muscles after they transform, you might have to compensate... if you go rearranging the skeleton from a 5'9" human to a digitigrade werewolf, you can still have a very intimidating beast without really adding much muscle... in terms of total body composition, humans have a lot of muscle compared with their skeleton, moreso than wolves I believe.... so if you reconfigured a skeleton to a more lupine configuration, muscles may be redistributed as well in a way that would make it look bulkier in the end....

lack of bulky muscles also wouldn't mean lack of strength, seeing as many animals are much, much stronger than humans, yet have less muscle. Their muscles aren't larger, they're just much stronger. So, a particularly lean werewolf should still reasonably be able to tear you apart.

[RedEye]

Keep in mind that going from plantigrade to digitigrade will add height, since the heel is now some inches in the air, and the "foot" is now comprised of the area around the toes. You could reasonably add up to a foot of real height through change of stance and a little foot growth.

Werewolves walk on their Tippy-Toes!

[Ansuru]

Well, the shapeshifting dragons in Andre Norton's Elvenbane trilogy shifted spare mass into an extradimensional space they referred to as "out" when they downsized. They never got bigger, but could get smaller (good thing, too...small-mountain-sized dragon is understandable, but an elf? O_o)

And then there's the fact that there's extra mass all around us...we breathe it every day. Who says the change doesn't operate at the subatomic level to convert nitrogen and other atmospheric gasses into heavier atoms and bind those into the compounds that make up living tissue?

Further, energy can be turned into mass—and mass into energy—and it's also all around us, too.


Just because we don't understand the mechanism by which the Change occurs doesn't mean size-changing isn't following proper thermodynamic principles. ;)

[LunarCarnivore]

Well, the shapeshifting dragons in Andre Norton's Elvenbane trilogy shifted spare mass into an extradimensional space they referred to as "out" when they downsized. They never got bigger, but could get smaller (good thing, too...small-mountain-sized dragon is understandable, but an elf? O_o)

And then there's the fact that there's extra mass all around us...we breathe it every day. Who says the change doesn't operate at the subatomic level to convert nitrogen and other atmospheric gasses into heavier atoms and bind those into the compounds that make up living tissue?

Further, energy can be turned into mass—and mass into energy—and it's also all around us, too.


Just because we don't understand the mechanism by which the Change occurs doesn't mean size-changing isn't following proper thermodynamic principles. ;)

That's what i would have said, had i read this thread sooner. Remember those "Animorphs" books? when they morphed, their mass was stored innegative space, an empty demension parallel to our own. and multiple dimensions (the "multiverse" theory) are pretty widely accepted by the scientific communtity. nuff said

[Night_Hunter]

I read all of the Animorph books as a kid. Yeah they said that when they become smaller (like a spider of a tiny furry play dog) their mass was pushed out into a empty demension and if they get big (bear, tiger) they glean mass from other things

Hey, if a chunkier person shifted into a werewolf would the werewolf 's metabolism take away the extra unneeded weight or would you go back to how you were before?

[Terastas]

These are by no means the end-all answers. These were just my own individual interpretations that I included in my own writing:

Strength

Terry's explanation:
It could be argued that a person's strength is inversely proportional to his threshold for pain; most people can bench press a ton but they don't want to because it hurts like hell. What I would argue is that werewolves doesn't gain extra muscles, but rather benefits from an increase in adrenaline and a higher endurance point that allows them to push themselves further than a normal human would.

2) Senses

Yeah, obvious enough. The new senses come with the new body parts.

3) Heightened Sexual Appeal

Er. . . Sex and werewolves is a recent Hollywood cliche. They think the only people that give half a crap about werewolves are dumb teen suburbanites (which they may be right), so they "sex it up" to further package the movie for their target demographic.

If there really was a heightened sex drive, however, I would attribute it to be a side effect of the sense of smell, namely that a werewolf could know a lot more about someone just by standing downwind from them than we could ever imagine, including possibly how long it's been since somebody's made whoopee, how much they want to do it again, and possibly even what the chances of the werewolf being the next one they do it with are.

4) Regeneration

No comment on that. I've debated at length about why regeneration is in the package, but nothing that only Scott would be qualified to proofread.

And where does the extra mass go when a man goes from 5' 9" to a 7 foot tall giant wolf-beast with extra bones and more tissue than before. WHERE DOES IT ALL GO!?

Just because a werewolf appears larger doesn't mean it has increased in mass. Think of the werewolf form as being coal and the human form a diamond. They're the same damn thing; one is just more condensed. A werewolf might therefore appear larger, but I think they would still weigh more or less the same.

[Howlitzer]

Just because a werewolf appears larger doesn't mean it has increased in mass. Think of the werewolf form as being coal and the human form a diamond. They're the same damn thing; one is just more condensed. A werewolf might therefore appear larger, but I think they would still weigh more or less the same.

*ding ding ding*

EXACTLY what I was trying to say.

[JoshuaMadoc]

Being a werewolf makes you a hot chick magnet? s***, son, now that's a way to save all that $$$ on plastic surgery...

... But that's if it does come with the package.

[Xiroteus]

Where does it all come from? Mass doesn't just grow on trees.

Excellerated cell multiplication?

I would wonder more on where does it go when reverting back.

[Howlitzer]

Where does it all come from? Mass doesn't just grow on trees.

Excellerated cell multiplication?

I would wonder more on where does it go when reverting back.

Accellerated cell multiplication does NOT increase mass, seeing as the cells simply split. The actual GROWTH of cells requires intake of food.

So if you were to gain 100 lbs in mass during a transformation that takes mere minutes....you'd have to eat, digest, AND fully process well over 100 pounds of food in that period of time, considering much of it is released as waste.

Then, when you shift back...your body would have to get rid of that excess mass in a rush as well.... and this would likely work the same way it does with diet pills.... it comes out the chute.

In which case, if you did pull this off in that manner, transformed into a werewolf and back, you would have the two WORST cases of spontaneous diarrhea in the history of all gastric events.

So it doesn't quite work.

[Xiroteus]

Accellerated cell multiplication does NOT increase mass, seeing as the cells simply split. The actual GROWTH of cells requires intake of food.

I know, just using movie logic on this one.

Or there is ............. magic.

Almost have to pretend the laws of physics are different where these stories take place.

[RedEye]

Hold on there, Xiro... Current experiments at my hangout (JPL & Cal Tech) are showing that all those so-called Laws of Physics, well, uhhh, uh-umm...aren't quite as set in stone as we thought they were. The speed of light has been repeatedly exceeded in the laboratory, for example. Hawking's work has shown that the Universe isn't quite as orderly as we had thought it was. The Future is mutable, yes; but it seems that the Past is mutable, too; if what Steven Hawking is saying holds water.
In bluntness: The level of Chaos is several exponential powers greater than was believed possible, so "magic" may not be as unlikely as once was thought. Magic is essentially the application of some sort of control over something that we can't understand the mechanics of... Or, to use the Clark Paradigm, "Technology that is more than three degrees advanced from what we know is indistinguishable from magic."
So...don't discount magic; it might be the simplest explanation for something we encounter, like disappearing mass. Until the methods and systems that can explain things are understood, magic is a viable causative agent.
Still, I have trouble with a Werewolf instantly gaining mass; it...just doesn't seem right, somehow.

[Rosiewolf]

First of, mass and weight are to different things.

And second, I don't really see how it would be possible for a werewolf to switch to his or her wolf's form and be much larger. The wolf form of the werewolf would have to be around the general size of the werewolf in human form.

[RedEye]

First of, mass and weight are to different things.

And second, I don't really see how it would be possible for a werewolf to switch to his or her wolf's form and be much larger. The wolf form of the werewolf would have to be around the general size of the werewolf in human form.

Quite true; Mass is the density of an object times the volume that object happens to occupy. Incerease Size and you Decrease Density; but the Mass remains the same. Note: Weight is a Function of Mass X G(ravity); not size. (note, I'm simplifying this)
So, if said Werewolf gains size but retains the same mass; the Werewolf's weight stays the same but said WW's density goes down.

Hmmm...Jet-Puffed Werewolves?

[Howlitzer]

Jet-puffed?

or, once again....you could have a denser-than-normal human form simply to accommodate a larger werewolf form.

that part isn't at all out of the realm of possibility, seeing as there is no *set* density for the human body, or even human muscle. Some people are denser than others, even if they aren't in amazingly good shape, and still have a bit of body fat on them. I for one am just plain *NOT* buoyant when I swim, even in salt water, and I'm not in particularly good shape...whereas I know people who are natural-born athletes and can hardly get themselves under the water.

[RedEye]

Jet-puffed?

or, once again....you could have a denser-than-normal human form simply to accommodate a larger werewolf form.

that part isn't at all out of the realm of possibility, seeing as there is no *set* density for the human body, or even human muscle. Some people are denser than others, even if they aren't in amazingly good shape, and still have a bit of body fat on them. I for one am just plain *NOT* buoyant when I swim, even in salt water, and I'm not in particularly good shape...whereas I know people who are natural-born athletes and can hardly get themselves under the water.

As in "Jet Puffed Marshmallows" The Werewolf as Foam Rubber.

As you point out, there are people who float (density=Less than Water) and people who sink (density=Greater than water). That could apply to Werewolves, too. As a Smoothskin, they are semi-normal people. As Werewolves, they have to wear lead weights when there are winds in the forecast...

[Night_Hunter]

right

so why argue that a werwolf is super powerful or has increased anything
if it expand and spreads out it's density wouldn't it be super weak. Like something strechted to a breaking point
so the werewol fin super dense human form be more powerful than humans AND more powerful than his werewolf form.

So the whole "Jet-Puffed" (though funny ) would mean super weak, super killable weres?

BTW
what happens to the fur?

does it .... idk ungrow? or shed off super fast like a Van Helsing Wolf Man

[Howlitzer]

Jet-puffed?

or, once again....you could have a denser-than-normal human form simply to accommodate a larger werewolf form.

that part isn't at all out of the realm of possibility, seeing as there is no *set* density for the human body, or even human muscle. Some people are denser than others, even if they aren't in amazingly good shape, and still have a bit of body fat on them. I for one am just plain *NOT* buoyant when I swim, even in salt water, and I'm not in particularly good shape...whereas I know people who are natural-born athletes and can hardly get themselves under the water.

As in "Jet Puffed Marshmallows" The Werewolf as Foam Rubber.

As you point out, there are people who float (density=Less than Water) and people who sink (density=Greater than water). That could apply to Werewolves, too. As a Smoothskin, they are semi-normal people. As Werewolves, they have to wear lead weights when there are winds in the forecast...

well, I was saying just the opposite there.... In human form they would kinda *be* lead weights, just all around very heavy for their appearance due to such a dense muscle/bone mass...but in werewolf form they would be normal.

[Terastas]

right

so why argue that a werwolf is super powerful or has increased anything
if it expand and spreads out it's density wouldn't it be super weak. Like something strechted to a breaking point
so the werewol fin super dense human form be more powerful than humans AND more powerful than his werewolf form.

So the whole "Jet-Puffed" (though funny ) would mean super weak, super killable weres?

Well, like I stated above, the human body's tolerance for pain is lesser than its actual physical capacity.

Remember Niam vs. Valerios?

Since a werewolf regenerates at a faster rate, it might also be true that a werewolf's threshold for pain (and with it, his physical potential) is greater as well.

[Black Claw]

i think its mainly adrenaline(don't make fun of my wrong spelling!).

[Dreamer]

Hold on there, Xiro... Current experiments at my hangout (JPL & Cal Tech) are showing that all those so-called Laws of Physics, well, uhhh, uh-umm...aren't quite as set in stone as we thought they were. The speed of light has been repeatedly exceeded in the laboratory, for example. Hawking's work has shown that the Universe isn't quite as orderly as we had thought it was. The Future is mutable, yes; but it seems that the Past is mutable, too; if what Steven Hawking is saying holds water.
In bluntness: The level of Chaos is several exponential powers greater than was believed possible, so "magic" may not be as unlikely as once was thought. Magic is essentially the application of some sort of control over something that we can't understand the mechanics of... Or, to use the Clark Paradigm, "Technology that is more than three degrees advanced from what we know is indistinguishable from magic."
So...don't discount magic; it might be the simplest explanation for something we encounter, like disappearing mass. Until the methods and systems that can explain things are understood, magic is a viable causative agent.

Actually, that fits in perfectly with my idea in my planned stories that magic is just some sort fo scientific force that scientist's haven't discovered yet. Not because of some conspiracy mind you, rather more because they haven't bothered to look.

[Distorted Realism]

may sound strange but I'm just throwing this bone out there but could the extra cells be rapidly digested somehow or be deteriorated... maybe turned into fat. or possibly transfered into.... i know this may sound strange but cancer cells... its also possible that the transformation could have a alteration on digestion to where it turns into fat instead of being... you know...


i am only 14 so i don't really know that much about biology...