A debate on furries

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:17 pm

Recently I got into a debate with this anti furry guy. I thought you would like to cast your views and see how me, and a friend did. I am Ciaran:

[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: We will kill and rape you (in that order)
[03:51] Ciaran: I am already daed
[03:51] Ciaran: dead
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: So
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: we are raping you
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well
[03:51] Ciaran: You are raping a wolf
[03:51] //Friend - - <3: ... I finished we can stop
[03:51] //Friend - - <3: Hows the weather?
[03:51] Ciaran: OH MY f*** GOD STOP
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: omfg
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU f*** FURFAG
[03:51] Ciaran: XD
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: GET THE f*** OUT
[03:51] Ciaran: No
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: FURRY s***
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: BURN
[03:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: f*** FURFAG
[03:51] Ciaran: I am not a furry b****
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: f*** FURRY
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: FURRY
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: FURRY
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU f*** DIE
[03:52] Ciaran: Antrhro
[03:52] Ciaran: XD
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU ARE s***
[03:52] //Friend - - <3: =)
[03:52] //Friend - - <3: XD
[03:52] //Friend - - <3: Dude I just like, f*** bubble drooled everywhere
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: SAME DIFFERENCE
[03:52] Ciaran: No.....
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: NOW GET THE f*** OUT
[03:52] Ciaran: No
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO THE HUMAN RACE
[03:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: SERIOUSLY
[03:52] Ciaran: I am not a furry. If you can not realise that then you need sleep.
[03:52] //Friend - - <3: *blows bubbles with drool*
[03:52] //Friend - - <3: got mud on your face
[03:53] Ciaran: I dont' wear a fursiut, I do not draw furry pics. I do not go to furry cons.
[03:53] Ciaran: I JUST may not be a furry. ;)
[03:53] Ciaran: Calm down dear
[03:53] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: OKAY
[03:53] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: WELL
[03:53] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU STILL WANT TO BE AN ANIMAL
[03:53] Ciaran: I don't
[03:53] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YOU PRETEND TO BE
[03:53] //Friend - - <3: booom cha booom
[03:53] //Friend - - <3: *totally oblivious*
[03:53] Ciaran: So much for any imagination.
[03:53] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: IMAGINATION
[03:54] Ciaran: Yes
[03:54] Ciaran: I know it is not real.
[03:54] Ciaran: Get it?
[03:54] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: YES. BUT STILL, SERIOUSLY MAN, YOU HAVE SOME PROBLEMS, IF YOU USE AN ALTERNATE PERSONA ONLINE, AND AND AND, ESPECIALLY IF ITS THAT OF AN ANIMAL
[03:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: IT CLEARLY SHOWS YOU HAVE SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH YOURSELF
[03:55] Ciaran: You could apply that to 65% of DA.
[03:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: SO f*** OFF AND GET THEM SORTED OUT PLZ
[03:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I DONT CARE.
[03:55] Ciaran: I don't care for what you say so no amount of spamming or shouting is going to make me leave.
[03:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: SHOUTING
[03:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: THIS IS TEXT
[03:55] //Friend - - <3: DA?
[03:56] Ciaran: Deviant Art
[03:56] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: THIS IS NOT SPAM EITHER
[03:56] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: IT IS ON TOPIC
[03:57] Ciaran: I see
[03:58] Ciaran: *TumbleweedU
[03:58] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Fail.
[03:58] Ciaran: ?
[03:59] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It is what you just did.
[03:59] Ciaran: *Wonders if you were from 4chan*
[03:59] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: How can anyone be "from" 4chan?
[03:59] Ciaran: Well dwell on the boards.
[03:59] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Unless the 4chan server started producing sperm I doubt anybody is actually a product of 4chan.
[04:00] Ciaran: Its a figure of speech.
[04:00] Ciaran: But thats a funny mental image
[04:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I prefer 7chan to 4chan
[04:00] Ciaran: Ahhh
[04:01] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: And 12chan when it existed.
[04:01] Ciaran: May I ask someting?
[04:01] Ciaran: something*
[04:01] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: No. You may not ask anything as any attempt to do so will be met by instant death.
</sarcasm>
[04:02] Ciaran: Why did you react like that?
[04:03] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: To what?
The question you just asked or something else?
[04:03] Ciaran: The reaction when I mentioned you were raping a wolf.
[04:03] Ciaran: You seem to go a bit....mad...
[04:04] Ciaran: :/
[04:04] //Friend - - <3: Umm, well guys, hate to just leave but ummm, urgent news brb
[04:04] Ciaran: kk
[04:05] *** //Friend - - <3 has left the conversation.
[04:06 Anti Furry Guy: Well. I think that it is ridiculous that you have such a huge problem with yourself that you feel the need to mask your real identity completely online.
[04:06] Ciaran: I am not
[04:06] Ciaran: You are hurling accusations at me and assuming who I am and what I do over one comment.
[04:06] Ciaran: I have no problem with myself.
[04:06] kat.fish@hotmail.co.uk: Of course you don't.
[04:07] Ciaran: Is that meant to be sarcasm?
[04:07] Anti Furry Guy Anybody who pretends to be a wolf online clearly has some kind of problem.
[04:07] Ciaran: Says you.
[04:07] Ciaran: If I were trying to pass myself out as one then yes but just playing around with a persona is in no way wrong or a sign of ill health
[04:07]Anti Furry Guy: Says psychiatry.
[04:08] Ciaran: Otherwise all RP's are f***.
[04:08] Ciaran: A lot of DA is f***.
[04:08] Anti Furry Guy: I don't care about DA and it's ridiculous userbase.
[04:08] Ciaran: Another genralzation.
[04:09] Anti Furry Guy: Overall the userbase of DA is ridiculous
[04:09] Ciaran: You are focusing one aspect.
[04:09] Anti Furry Guy: It was a genralization as it was not targetted at anyone nor anything. So you were just stating the obvious there.
[04:10] Ciaran: DA is Fur Affinty.
[04:10] Ciaran: Affinty*
[04:10] Ciaran: not*
[04:11 Anti Furry Guy]: I never said it was
[04:11] Anti Furry Guy :I said DA has a ridiculous userbase
[04:11] Ciaran: Why
[04:12] Ciaran: ?
[04:13] Anti Furry Guy: A lot of the users on there have posted almost nothing, a lot of them are horridly s*** at art, a lot of them are immature and young, a lot of the decent art is ignored, there is, of course the furfags on there too
[04:14]Anti Furry Guy: This wolf thing, if you do that online, then you clearly have a problem with your own personality in real life, or you are trying to escape your real life to a ridiculous extent...
[04:14] (Fellow Debater) has joined the conversation.
[04:15] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Oh and here comes the ninja.
[04:16] Fellow Debater: The ninja? Excuse me?
[04:16] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I've seen the picture.
[04:16] Fellow Debater: It was for halloween
[04:17] Ciaran: Ok,, for a start DA is can be for people who just like to see art. I admit it will be used as social networking to a certain extent. You can not force art onto people. Point two, just because people are s*** at art does not make it any higher or lower, plus everyone starts from somewhere and you can not change fans. You will get a lot of young people anywhere, deal with it. Finally you are actually one pathetic soul to act like a b/tard. Fur fags hm?
[04:18] Ciaran: Oh and I do not any real life problems so don't think you know a shred about me. I am not trying to escape from anything. I having fun and thats it.
[04:19] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: You don't get immature people everywhere, I tend to avoid places where they are as abundant as they are on DA.
[04:19] Ciaran: This is the f*** internet where any bastard can be on a computer and say their views.
[04:19] Ciaran: Some places will have them more then others but you wont have an imature free place
[04:20] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: That is ridiculous
[04:20] Ciaran: No it is not.
[04:20] Ciaran: Its human nature
[04:20] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I go to places that ban immature people and little kids
[04:20] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: So, I do go to immature free places.
[04:20] Ciaran: Ditto
[04:21] Ciaran: But they were immature before being banned right?
[04:21] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well then what is this: " you wont have an imature free place "
[04:21] Ciaran: Just beucase they were banned does not mean they did not grace where you go.
[04:21] Fellow Debater: People get around that, it's not hard to lie about your age
[04:21] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Not really. It's passworded so only those who are known can get in.
[04:22] Ciaran: Those do not make up the staple of the internet.
[04:22] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Screening process checks what they are like. Nobody immature gets a pass.
[04:22] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It's a public private.
[04:22] Ciaran: Nothing is 100% though
[04:22] Fellow Debater: immature is a point of view.
[04:22] Ciaran: What do you want of DA anyway? A purge?
[04:23] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well, you can tell if their balls have not dropped fairly easily on the ventrilo. So that helps a great deal.

I don't want anything of DA. I ignore it. I do not use it.
[04:24] Ciaran: This has gone off topic anyway.
[04:24] Fellow Debater: Immature and young are two different things.
[04:24] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: True, but age and maturity are closely related.
[04:24] Fellow Debater: Not really. I know people way older who are less mature than I am.
[04:25] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Are you honestly denying that age and maturity are not closely related?
Really now, that is a /very/ stupid statement.
[04:25] Fellow Debater: They may be a little, but age does not always equal maturity
[04:25] Ciaran: Which is what you are implying.
[04:25] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I never said it did, I said they are closely related
[04:26] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: An 8 year old will never be able to posess the level of maturity an 80 year old could.
[04:26] Ciaran: Leap of logic.
[04:26] Ciaran: You took it too the exetreme there.
[04:26] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: So, why is it that you are online at 4:27am Ciaran?
[04:27] Ciaran: Why is that you are online yourself? I am on for my own pleasure.
[04:27] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I have a sleeping disorder.
[04:27] Ciaran: I see
[04:28] Fellow Debater: More importantly, why does it matter why other people are online?
[04:28] Ciaran: But what has me going on at this time got to do with this debate?
[04:29] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Nothing. It was entirely off-topic.
[04:29] Ciaran: It just seemed a bit out of the blue thats all.
[04:29] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: The average 12 year old does not posess the same level of maturity that the average 16 year old will.
[04:29] Ciaran: The thing is I disliked your insulting reactions to furries which is why I called you a b/tard.
[04:29] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It's /b/
[04:29] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Not b/
[04:29] Ciaran: That vulgur phrase reminds me of them and their raids.
[04:30] Ciaran: I think they hit Wiki Fur a while ago.
[04:30] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I've only ever taken part in the raid on scientology.
[04:30] Ciaran: I am not sayingg all did.
[04:30] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I know.
[04:30] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I was clearing something up.
[04:31] Ciaran: I just really do not like that phrase.
[04:31] Ciaran: Why do you dislike furries anyway?
[04:31] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well, furries have a clear social disorder, psychiatry agrees
[04:31] Ciaran: How does that bother you?
[04:32] Ciaran: If I said I had a fetish for vore would that give me a clear social disorder/
[04:32] Ciaran: ?*
[04:32] Fellow Debater: If they have a disorder, it's not your concern.
[04:32] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I'm not concerned
[04:33] Fellow Debater: I mean, it's none of your business unless they force it on you
[04:33] Ciaran: But you told me to get out.
[04:33] Ciaran: I am not sure whether that was jokingly or not..
[04:33] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: That is not me showing concern, that is me showing disgust.
[04:33] Fellow Debater: If you don't like it, don't look or don't read.
[04:34] Ciaran: Each to their own I guess.
[04:35] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: http://www.surf-revolutions.com/images/ ... 4chanb.jpg
[04:36] Ciaran: What is this for?
[04:36] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: For entertainment and informative purposes I suppose.
[04:37] Ciaran: Ah.
[04:37] Ciaran: Btw, Well, furries have a clear social disorder, psychiatry agrees
[04:37] Ciaran: Any evidence on that?
[04:37] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I'm sorry, I don't have any sauce.
[04:38] Ciaran: Then your claim is not backed up.
[04:38] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I watched a documentary on it once a while ago.

Why don't you try searching around looking for a professional opinion on furfagism
[04:39] Ciaran: If you were mature enough you would stop calling them that.
[04:39] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It is a habit.
[04:39] Ciaran: Break it
[04:39] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Mesays (04:35):
Each to their own I guess.
[04:40] Ciaran: That was over you digust, not the naming.
[04:40] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It can be applied to this.
[04:40] Ciaran: It makes you look like arsehole.
[04:40] Ciaran: an*
[04:40] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Do I care on your opinion on me?
[04:41] Ciaran: No, I was mearly noting.
[04:41] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: about*
[04:41] Ciaran: But the burden of proof is on you.
[04:42] Ciaran: Not me, you find why it is a social disorder. You back up your claims if you can.
[04:42] Ciaran: Unless you just want to leave it as opinion
[04:43] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I would rather spend my time doing something more productive than searching google for an article on it.
[04:43] Ciaran: Then its the latter which is fine.
[04:44] Ciaran: It has been a good debate.
[04:44] Ciaran: Out of interest, how old are you?
[04:48] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1czzb6ofj0
Clearly abnormal behaviour.
[04:49] Ciaran: "I would rather spend my time doing something more productive than searching google for an article on it." Out of the window I assume.
[04:50] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I did not search for that.
It's on a forum I visit.
[04:50] Fellow Debater: If people want to act like cats, why does it matter? As long as it's not harming other people, no one has a right to complain.
[04:50] Ciaran: You taking the extreme of a group highlited though. You can not base the actions of a whole group on but a few.
[04:50] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: You think that is the extreme?
[04:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: The extreme is yiffing and porn.
[04:51] Ciaran: Is youtube a peer reviewed journal on medical behaviour?
[04:51] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Obviously not. Like I said I am not searching around for an article.
[04:52] Ciaran: The actions in that video are do not account for the whole furry spectrum.
[04:52] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Here is a comment on the video (Not on the youtube page)
WTF? You're a member of the smartest most resourceful species on Earth and instead you want to be an animal rolling around in the mud? Pitiful.
[04:52] Ciaran: By that logic, waving a controller around to move a virtual bat is pitiful.
[04:53] Fellow Debater: Or playing video games at all, for that matter.
[04:53] Ciaran: You or the commenter are not the decider of what is or what is not ptitiful.
[04:54] Ciaran: People will do a variety of things to furfill or entertain themselves. If you find that pitiful then tough luck on you.
[04:54] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Playing video games is entirely seperate, it's a way to have fun by challenging yourself on your thinking skills, hand eye co-ordination and other things, unless of course you play a game to role play on it
[04:55] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Personally I play games for income and fun of the challenge.
[04:56] Ciaran: You are always playing a role in video games no matter how disconnected or basic. People just play games to escape reality and relax and trust me. A lot of people play for that reason. Its called being immerserd in the game.
[04:56] Ciaran: You can not subscribe what your view of games are to everyone else though.
[04:56] Ciaran: As said people play for many reasons.
[04:57] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well, some people play to role play, others play for the fun that comes with the challenge
[04:57] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: If a game was without any challenge it would not be a game
[04:57] Ciaran: So video games ARE NOT entirely seperate
[04:58] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It depends on how you play them.
[04:58] Ciaran: But many people do not play just for challenge.
[04:58] Ciaran: How would story driven games work otherwise?
[04:59] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: If a story driven game had no challenge to it at all it would not be a game, more of an interactive movie
[04:59] Fellow Debater: Many people play games for story and challenge.
[04:59] Ciaran: But I am not saying that they do it for one or the other.
[05:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Playing a game is about the challenge, without the challenge it is not really a game.
[05:00] Ciaran: It is not about the challenge.
[05:00] Ciaran: No one is arguing that it is not.
[05:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It is not about the challenge.
[05:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: xD
[05:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Mesays (05:01):
It is not about the challenge.
Mesays (05:01):
No one is arguing that it is not.
[05:00] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I cant believe that.
[05:01] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Are you stoned or something?
[05:01] Ciaran: Before you string that up I was focusing on that I was not trying to debate the challenge.
[05:01] Fellow Debater: Even if playing a game is about being challenged, you are still playing at being something you are not
[05:01] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Sure, but the difference is, you are not playing it for that.
[05:02] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: AND it is not brought into real life very often
[05:02] Ciaran: The point remains that people will do many things to entertain themselves.
[05:02] Fellow Debater: And it's no one's business except those doing it
[05:02] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Sure, pissing all over each other and having sex in animal costumes is a great, perfectly normal form of entertainment.
[05:02] Ciaran: Whether it is roll around in mud, play for both challenge and story. People get their kicks in different ways but its all for entertainment.
[05:03] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Yiffing is f*** disgusting. It happens at anthro conventions, and it is the reason I hate furfags.
[05:03] Ciaran: You are not complaining about BDSM.
[05:03] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Thats because its not on topic and hasnt been brought up
[05:03] Ciaran: Odd, I would not consider that NORMAL enterrtainment
[05:04] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: It was sarcasm.
[05:04] Ciaran: Oh, and who gives you the righ to determine what is normal.
[05:04] Fellow Debater: And you are talking about extremes here. Not all people who roleplay animals online, or at conventions do that.
[05:04] Ciaran: Can I have another spoon fed youtube video that you found.
[05:04] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Definitions of normal on the Web:

* conforming with or constituting a norm or standard or level or type or social norm; not abnormal; "serve wine at normal room temperature"; "normal ...
[05:05] Ciaran: So I assume we are going by the social norm.
[05:05] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Which is not rolling around on the floor in a fursuit.
[05:05] Fellow Debater: So you find something wrong with people who are abnormal? In any way, or only in the furry way?
[05:05] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I find something wrong with furries.
[05:05] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I find something wrong with rapists
[05:05] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: With pedophiles
[05:05] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Etc.
[05:06] Ciaran: A lot of things do not live up to the social norm.
[05:06] Fellow Debater: Difference = pedofiles and rapists are hurting other people.
[05:06] Ciaran: I probably would not live up to it. Does that make me wrong?
[05:06] Fellow Debater: Furries do not.
[05:06] Ciaran: You are going on the extreme
[05:06] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: So?
[05:06] Ciaran: You do not take a groups extreme and base the whole group off it.
[05:06] Ciaran: Thats genralizing and is a fallacy
[05:07] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I can use an example if I want.
[05:07] Ciaran: Which you then use to disprove to my argument
[05:07] Ciaran: You can but its wrong.
[05:07] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Anyone who dresses up in a fursuit to get their kicks, in my opinion, has a problem somewhere in their life.
[05:08] Fellow Debater: Do you think that all people who dress up like animals are 'wrong' ?
[05:08] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Why cant they just interact with others normally?
[05:08] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Why do they have to pretend they are a lower being
[05:08] Fellow Debater: Friend dressed up as a cat.
[05:08] Ciaran: People who cosplay are then wrong if they get their kicks
[05:08] Ciaran: Because they enjoy it?
[05:08] Ciaran: Why this sense of ultimate human morality?
[05:09] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: The fursuit thing, to do it on a regular basis, is wrong.
[05:09] Ciaran: Says you
[05:09] Ciaran: and your "proof" that you can be barely be bothered to find.
[05:10] Fellow Debater: Oh, so now it's only on a regular basis. You're changing your story.
[05:10] Ciaran: Back up your claims with a more stalwart source.
[05:10] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Furries are generally people who do it often?
[05:10] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Not the occasional, lets have a go at this for a bit of fun, try something different
[05:11] Fellow Debater: Ah, but that's not what you said. You said that you didn't like those who 'pretended they were a lower being'
[05:11] Ciaran: You are still not adressing why doing it on a regular bassis is not wrong.
[05:11] Ciaran: You are forcing your standards on what is the norm.
[05:12] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: If you would give me longer than 5 seconds to reply I might be able to get a word in at somepoint in this conversation Smile
[05:12] Ciaran: Why did you not say that before?
[05:14] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: To change your personality - - -
I thought it would be standard to let another person reply

- - regularly and dress up in a fursuit is clearly a sign that you have a problem with your own personality or your life and so you want to escape it by doing something quite extreme
[05:14] Fellow Debater: You don't think that maybe, they're just having fun?
[05:15] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I have, this entire time, been talking about those with a "fursona"
[05:15] Ciaran: You have yet to approve that dressing up is "extreme" you are basing it off the actions of them in that video and other extreme sides that not do make up the fur communty.
[05:15] Ciaran: Fursona!=Furry
[05:15] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I am basing it off an hour long documentary on it not off of youtube
[05:16] Ciaran: And I would like to see the source of this hour long doccumentery otherwise its like saying "I studied in this." It does not make you anymore knowledgeable . We do not know the source, contents or how firm this doccumentary is. For all we know, you could be making it up
[05:17] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Indeed, I could.
[05:18] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I would rather spend my time working on my website and finishing requests.
[05:18] Fellow Debater: Then why did you start this debate?
[05:19] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I did not start the debate actually, Medid.
[05:19] Ciaran: YYet again the burden of proof is on you. If you can't back up your claims then you have practiically forrfieted.
[05:19] Ciaran: Why did you choose to conitnue it. I gave us a chance to stop.
[05:19] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Point this chance out?
[05:20] Ciaran: We had a similer situation where yet again you did not back up your proof until the youtube video. Plus you could of asked to of stopped anytime.
[05:21] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well, I don't see why a debate should stop instantly if I have enough time for it.
[05:21] Fellow Debater: If you have enough time for the debate, it would follow that you have time to back up your points in said debate.
[05:22] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I don't have enough time to do anything more than a 2 second google search really
[05:22] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I don't want to end up scrolling through pages searching for an article on it.
[05:23] Ciaran: Then if you are unwilling to find a proper source then how can you expect to able to debate when you have to proove your statments?
[05:23] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: You have yet to proove any of your statements and/or opinions.
[05:24] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I mean, make your opinions more than opinion.
[05:24] Ciaran: We a both even really.
[05:25] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Yes
[05:25] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Now /discussion on this
[05:25] Ciaran: Is it possible then is can done at a later date?
[05:26] Ciaran: It is 5:26 am.
[05:26] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Why would I want to continue this?
It's not a very interesting, exciting nor intellectual debate.
[05:26] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Mesays (05:27):
It is 5:26 am.

Ahaha!
Nice one.
[05:26] Fellow Debater: Some people's clocks are different times.
[05:26] Ciaran: ?
[05:27] Ciaran: I am tired
[05:27] Ciaran: Is that ok?
[05:27] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: No?
[05:27] Ciaran: Well people make mistakes.
[05:27] Ciaran: Which is why I am asking for a break
[05:27] Ciaran: I really need sleep.
[05:28] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Don't let me keep you up, you'll be here until tomorrow.
[05:28] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Well
[05:28] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Toda
[05:28] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Today*
[05:28] Ciaran: I know your contact on MSN.
[05:28] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I did add you.
[05:30] Fellow Debater: Well, good. Meneeds his sleep, and I need to do dishes.
[05:31] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: Cya

Discuss

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:23 pm

Like anyone should care what this guy thinks. ( and this is coming from me, a person who regularly criticizes furry fandom and its lack of "decorum"

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:29 pm

He was pretty sharp for what time this started but did not hold strong when it came to evidence though the same could of been said for me as well. I want to see how I did in peoples minds how I can improve my debating skills.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 6:50 pm

Here's my biggest problem. Pedophiles are taking over furry fandom.

Don't believe me? Go to furaffinity.net and have a look for yourself. There are a whole lotta pedophile pics up there disgused as "furry art" Don't get mad at me...just look. Their excuse is..."this is a drawing...it isn't real. Therefore, no one is getting hurt and we are NOT pedophiles."

Yeah...right. And BTW, i don't even include people like babyfurs. That might be wierd, but it SEEMS to not cross the line. Real pedophiles operate within their own "gray area"

It's for that reason, that most decent furry artists have left that fandom. They don't want to be associated with that. Now...you KNOW it's a problem when people who draw furry prawn( yes, i have drawn that

)think others are perverts LOL.

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:02 pm

It hard to judge really as I am not an expert on furry fan art. The deepest I have seen is some soft vore. I am not sure what to say. Though I would argue that drawing it=does not equal action I can not know how the person is thinking. Same with things like lolicon.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:03 pm

Lolicon? What's that?

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:05 pm

There is no way to put this without it sounding wrong. IIRC is a basic a bit like hentai but themed around kids. I am not sure if that really is but that is what I thought anyway.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:10 pm

Ewww. Wronnng!

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:12 pm

I find it disgusting but as long as the person is taking futher then I am no going to rally against it. It would be unfair otherwise.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:13 pm

Dude, when the debate starts with "we will kill and rape you," it's already not a debate anymore. And if the same guy that professed a desire to screw a corpse calling you a "f**" not even a minute later wasn't proof enough that you were talking to just another worthless load his mother should've swallowed, I don't know what more I could offer you.

I didn't read the whole thing because it was obvious from the very first line that you were talking to a walking waste of oxygen. There was no debate; it was just some lamebrain emo P.O.S. looking for someone to take out all of his Slipknot-flavored anger on.

Furry bashing is the crutch of dumb emo suburbanites, jocks and Insane Clown Posse fans that are too meek to be bullies, too sensitive to be racist and too insecure to be gay bashers. Unless you're a right wing conspiracy nut that works in the animation industry like Shawn Keller or (no offense) Matt Sullivan, there's absolutely no reason why anyone should have anything against a teeny-tiny Internet subculture that barely even acknowledges its own existence.

Regardless of how lame furries may seem, furry hating is just a great big waste of emotion. End of story.

Regarding furriness as a whole. . . You know, I more or less feel the same way about being furry that Ron White feels about being gay, IE: it's not a question about whether or not someone is furry, just to what extent they are furry.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:18 pm

Actually, i know Shawn Keller. he's a big time furry. he makes AMAZING costumes that put the ones at Disneyland to shame. And he has ALWAYS acknowledged his involvement in furry fandom. he just thinks its a hoot to make fun of the same fandom he is a part of. problem is, no one in this fandom has a sense of humor. NO ONE.

Lukas · Post by **Lukas** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:22 pm

MattSullivan wrote:Actually, i know Shawn Keller. he's a big time furry. he makes AMAZING costumes that put the ones at Disneyland to shame. And he has ALWAYS acknowledged his involvement in furry fandom. he just thinks its a hoot to make fun of the same fandom he is a part of. problem is, no one in this fandom has a sense of humor. NO ONE.

true true Matt, I joke about the catholic church sometimes and im Catholic, hell on SL im a fake pope for a fake religion, but I do it all for laughs, and you know, i never had to doubt my faith even while doing all these jokes, I've also seen a few furries make fun of other furries just for laughs (mostly furzi types) i really find it quite amusing sometimes
to quote my father "if you can't laugh at yourself in this world you will be hard pressed to enjoy life"

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:30 pm

MattSullivan wrote:Actually, i know Shawn Keller. he's a big time furry. he makes AMAZING costumes that put the ones at Disneyland to shame. And he has ALWAYS acknowledged his involvement in furry fandom. he just thinks its a hoot to make fun of the same fandom he is a part of. problem is, no one in this fandom has a sense of humor. NO ONE.

Hm. OK, my mistake. I'd heard from someone else (supposedly) in the business that Keller was one of several old duffers in the animation industry intentionally spreading bad press about furries within the industry, supposedly because they're paranoid the many young furs studying art and animation will take away their jobs one day or something like that.

So I withdraw my statement about Shawn Keller himself, but I only brought him up because that would be the one and only scenario where I could legitimately understand a fear and/or hatred of furries. Anything beyond that one small possible case scenario is just a waste of emotion.

Set · Post by **Set** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:20 pm

The guy's just jealous because we get more tail.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:30 pm

Silent Hunter wrote:There is no way to put this without it sounding wrong. IIRC is a basic a bit like hentai but themed around kids. I am not sure if that really is but that is what I thought anyway.

Sort of. Think of it more as being, oh, I dunno. . . Hentai in the chibi art style.

It can involve kids, yes, but it's kinda-sorta' tolerable because it doesn't involve adults.

I. . . Don't know how much sense that made. Gimme' a break, I'm trying to keep things as PG as possible here.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:55 pm

Matt, so-called pedos in the fandom are the least of the fandom's worries. It's the ones with the same sensitivity of a fascist governmental leader on a drunken rage that furries should worry about. That's not counting the other majority who "leaves" the site over the slightest hint of non-personal-life drama going on that involves topics like art theft and loliknocopywriteonposes.

But then again, it's no surprise you'd come to such a hasty conclusion after you left FA over something as insignificant as that cub crap. As if i'd let something that trivial get in the way of my delusional ambitions to control the fandom's creative bane because of their zealous love of their pornography...

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:48 pm

Kite, you're funny :}

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:18 am

Anything funny will come after the party van leaves the yard. Until then, any topics like this, i have to be perfectly honest about.

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:25 am

Dude, when the debate starts with "we will kill and rape you," it's already not a debate anymore. And if the same guy that professed a desire to screw a corpse calling you a "f**" not even a minute later wasn't proof enough that you were talking to just another worthless load his mother should've swallowed, I don't know what more I could offer you.

For a start I did not expect a debate. A friend of mine had introduced him to me around 10 minutes earlier and it was just a load of random chat spam to be honest. You know, the crazy type which is why that "we will kill you and rape you comment" came up. This is before he went of on me about furries. When he started swearing; THEN he had grasped onto that I either was a furry, had a fursona or Rped animals (the last two apply to me). So he starts mouthing off as you can see and his friend who was taken by surprise had to leave. Soon after the guy calmed down. THAT is when the debate started. It came out of the blue basically. This is one of the first debates I have had over the furry fandom and other people who like animals in different ways. I have a few friends who are so it felt right to at least see what he had to say on it and debate. Plus nothing much was going on at the time. :p

there's absolutely no reason why anyone should have anything against a teeny-tiny Internet subculture that barely even acknowledges its own existence.

No rational reasons or reasons to use the most extreme of a sub culture as a marker for ALL the sub culture (should be the other way around). Probably the simple reasons in peoples mind for furry hate is:

A. "Who's gonna want to dress as an animal?"
B. "This ain't normal. They must be fags or mental"
C. "These people want to pollute our art sites with furry work"

Now i am not saying these are the correct and true reasons and my "" marks indicate these are not my views. The only one I can even possibly relate to is C but it assumes there is some kind of furry agenda on art sites like DA. Personally I find the idea of dressing in a fursuit a bit odd but everyone gets their kicks some way. The artists that do it just want to draw their ideas and RPers just want to have some fun roleplay.

Oh and could someone explain in the most unbiased way possible what Matt has said of furries that has not been himself in this topic?

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:19 am

I think Matt's unbiased enough (though he's being extremely cynical), but he's also adressing just one of the many core issues with the fandom. I've already mentioned all the other ones that i've known, and fursuits and fursuiters is another one of the problems that people, especially me, have an issue with.

From my personal view, look, i'm not going to stop you making whatever it is you're designing, but if you KNOW VERY WELL that you want to make a suit that has to conform with the proportions of your proposed design, don't just loaf about and make them horribly disproportionate (i.e. swollen heads, hands and feet), and have saggy skin, especially if you want the word "cool" on your design.

If i want "cool", i expect it to be this kind of cool:

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:59 pm

Two big issues always seem to come up whenever Matt gets on the furry topic, one of which is largely unfounded but understandable why he might think such, and the other isn't about furries at all.

The one that does pertain to furries that I can understand is that one case scenario I mentioned earlier where I could understand a possible dislike of furries: the idea that furries are trying to squeeze their way into the animation industry so they can take over. Like I said above, I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

The other I think is a result of Matt's association between furries and liberalism in general; more than once in a furry thread he's just gone straight off into a rant about taxes, welfare, immigration, Chinese communism, or whatever. Now I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but trust me on this: Not all furries are liberals. Trust me, I know, I've been in even more trouble in more than one furry forum for being liberal that Matt has at the Pack for being conservative; there are just as many fascist furries as there are commie furries.

And regarding fursuits. . . Now mind you, I've never actually worn a fursuit (and since it's 100 degrees out where I live now, I don't think I ever will), but I think the magic of fursuits is similar to the magic of online aliases, IE: you're more free to be who you want to be. Like in real life, I'm actually pretty shy and reserved, but here at the Pack as Terastas, I can go all out on a liberal rant, profess my love for cute kittens, claim to be throwing explosive rubber duckies and use phrases like "uber kawaii" without half a thought.

It's the euphoria of pretending to be someone else for a change. And we all do it to some degree. Very few people are fursuiters, but just the same, very few people can walk by the hat rack in the costume shop without trying on the pirate hat and going "Ar-r-r-r-rgh!" at their friends or in the mirror. It's not as extreme as fursuiting, but it's essentially the same thing.

Set · Post by **Set** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:41 pm

[04:38] //Anti Furry Guy - - <3: I watched a documentary on it once a while ago.

Who wants to bet that it was some piece of crap on MTV?

Terastas wrote:the idea that furries are trying to squeeze their way into the animation industry so they can take over.

And this would change the animation industry...how? It's only been filled with anthropomorphic animals since it began. *points to Mickey Mouse*

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:03 pm

Matt conservative?? He's one of my best friends, and I can tell you right now... he is not conservative... unless I am really rubbing off on him... What next Bible College!

As for furries and furry fandom... I can only judge by what I see, hear, and personally know, and thus far every furry that I've met (physically that is) had some serious social issues. In short they've taken a wholesome view of fandom and transformed it into an obsessive complusive lifestyle and then, of which is worse, wish to force that lifestyle on others as a legitiment way of thinking and acting.

You have to understand our species... humanity, has ALWAYS anthropromorphasized animals. We can go all the way back to cave paintings 40,000 years old and find animal drawings or the use of animals to tell stories. The Bible is full of animal allagories and many of the early Christians used lions, wolves, and other animals to depict the characteristics of certain people. I remember reading a book about lions and finding that ancient churches had used a lion to depict the Apostile Peter. Another notable lionized man was King Richard I. Also known as King Richard: The Lion Heart. The story teller Aesop used humanized animals through out all of his stories. In short people adopting animal characteristics or personas is nothing new or really unique.

Most people don't have a problem with people using animals to describe themselves, it is when this "fandom" becomes obsessive people start raising their eyebrows.

Again and again I hear people crying that the "deviant" furries is a minority among the "culture" however, as Lukas has pointed out as well as I have that it doesn't take anyone five seconds to find porn of some sort on almost any furry related site. The other day I even found German Shepherd sexual fantasies, where a woman turned her husband into a dog, so she could fulfill a life long dream... If this was just a random find, I could honestly understand, but it wasn't. Am I saying this type of art is wrong? No... We live in a free world and all interpretations of art is fine.... BUT if ya take it to the extreme, you are going to have to expect some feedback.

If you want people to change their views of furry fandom, then it is up to all those who are furry to distance themselves, their art, their literature, from sources that aren't contributing positive feedback. Like Matt said already, many animators who used to consider themselves furries have now stopped due to the polluted image that has been created. While some may cry foul, that negative image could cost these men and women their jobs. If it is that bad, then it is become more than just a person's opinion...

Lukas · Post by **Lukas** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:16 pm

i don't really remember mentioning a porn point (i believe that was Matt or silent) but i would agree its not that hard to find

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:30 pm

I LIKE furry art :} I LIKE critter movies. I LIKE anthropo-whatever. It's fun! I LIKE sexy sassy fuzzy art! ^-^ I've never denied that. I'm like Shawn Keller. i make fun of this fandom because I'm part of it. At least, i was more active a long time ago, before SO MUCH of it became a mostly sexually driven thing. ( not your average plain jane ol sexy stuff but the whole "see all the way inside up to that critter's heart covered in ranch dressing kind of thing"

Fetishes? SURE!! go nuts guys!

Just keep it legal...and in the world of adults. As Alpha pointed out, there are negative aspects that keep people away from it..people who probably wouldn't be so critical if a lot of furries would just acknowledge "Yes, there's some problems with this fandom" A lot of times, when someone DOEs point these things out, there's a great collective cry, a massive "harrumphing!" and pounding of chests from furries who are JUST...TOO....SENSITIVE.

We're not talking about YOU. We're talking about SOME people. People who overreact. Like this guy on the chat. I'm guessing he's ust a reguler, VERY heterosexual non-fury guy who sees furry as a deviant thing, but has no control over his caveman like-thug-response gland, and hence, comes off looking like a total twit.

i agree with you guys^-^ Oh! And ffuries CAN'T take over the animation industry..there aren't enough of them *chuckle* But any animator who DOES like furry stuff tends to keep it to themselves because they want to be seen as something other than a pervert which...SADLY, the majority of Hollywood producers see it as (true! )