A debate on furries

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Tue May 20, 2008 1:49 am

MattSullivan wrote:The man who is running the Rocky Mountain furcon IS a three time convicted pedophile. How's that for a start?

So, have you dropped a note to the police in whatever jurisdiction it is he's operating in about his past history? And if not, don't you think it's high time somebody did so?

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:52 am

Midnight wrote:
MattSullivan wrote:The man who is running the Rocky Mountain furcon IS a three time convicted pedophile. How's that for a start?
So, have you dropped a note to the police in whatever jurisdiction it is he's operating in about his past history? And if not, don't you think it's high time somebody did so?

If he is a convicted pedophile he is also registered with whatever county he is living in. This is required by law. As long as he does not molest any children he free to do what he wants. In short, just because he is a pedophile, does not mean he is an active one...

Dreamer · Post by **Dreamer** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 am

Terastas wrote:
alphanubilus wrote:Actually that is not true. Any pshycologist is going to tell you that if a person dwells on an obsession long enough, they will act upon it.
That's only if said fantasy is actually within the realm of reality. Unless you consider going on the website and looking for artwork acting upon an obsession.

You wouldn't accuse everyone here at the Pack of trying to become werewolves, would you? It's beyond reality -- even if people here are obsessing over werewolves to the point that it becomes unhealthy, the only thing they can do about it is keep dreaming and watch Blood & Chocolate for the umteen millionth time.

You're forgetting about our resident transhumanist Scott Gardner though.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:56 am

Yyyyyeeeeeeeeeeah... What about him?

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:09 pm

Yeah, because Scott's the only one.

Ansuru · Post by **Ansuru** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:22 pm

I'd probably be considered a furvert, and I'm fine with that. But the only time an image has EVER made me want to be physically sick was when I came across one of those aforementioned bloody cub images. There's lots of stuff I don't like, and that I'll hurry to navigate away from if I see it, but usually I have strong enough guts not to want to barf just because I don't like something.

And I like stuff by the real Artists like Balaa better than most of the pr0n anyway. ;)

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:55 pm

Someone ( not me ) did alert the hotel. that's all they can do. You don't want to go out of your way to interfere in someone's life especially if they've served their time or paid their debt to society. BUT, you CAN alert a business so they know what kind of people want to rent out their hotel/services.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:19 pm

All I want to know is where exactly are you guys surfing!?
I'm an active part of the fandom, and I've never come across that kind of abomination. You have to be really looking for some creepy stuff if you accidentally ended up with something like that.
I rarely stumble across just regular pr0nz, artists usually have it tucked away behind a clearly marked link that can be easily avoided.

But yeah, that bit of info definitely persuaded me to avoid RMFC. But luckily next year I'll have Furry Fiesta to go to. I know my fellow TX furs and trust them. They have the decency to keep their adult activities behind closed doors where it belongs.

Kaebora · Post by **Kaebora** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:41 pm

Dreamer wrote:
Terastas wrote:
alphanubilus wrote:Actually that is not true. Any pshycologist is going to tell you that if a person dwells on an obsession long enough, they will act upon it.
That's only if said fantasy is actually within the realm of reality. Unless you consider going on the website and looking for artwork acting upon an obsession.

You wouldn't accuse everyone here at the Pack of trying to become werewolves, would you? It's beyond reality -- even if people here are obsessing over werewolves to the point that it becomes unhealthy, the only thing they can do about it is keep dreaming and watch Blood & Chocolate for the umteen millionth time.
You're forgetting about our resident transhumanist Scott Gardner though.

kitetsu wrote:Yyyyyeeeeeeeeeeah... What about him?

PariahPoet wrote:Yeah, because Scott's the only one.

Ok, yall've lost me.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:05 pm

PariahPoet wrote:All I want to know is where exactly are you guys surfing!?
I'm an active part of the fandom, and I've never come across that kind of abomination. You have to be really looking for some creepy stuff if you accidentally ended up with something like that.

*nods* Like I said before, there is some really weird stuff in the fandom and it can be easy to find, but only for people who are looking for it.

Me, I've never seen "cub" artwork. Know why? Because I don't look for it. And I've never accidentally viewed it ever either, because even the people that draw cub-related artwork are super-sensitive about it and usually include "WARNING" in the topic title or URL link whenever they post it. It's really tough to accidentally view dirty furry pictures; you either have to work to find them or ignore numerous content warnings to do so.

And just because someone draws or writes it doesn't mean they will do it. Hey, Blink182 wrote a song about bestiality -- quick! Arrest them before they do it for real!

As for Scott, well, I think he could defend himself better than anyone could, but comparing some spiritual slant on werewolves like transhumanism or therianthropy to an actual pursuit of real life physical werewolfism is about as far of a stretch as you can get.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:21 pm

There will be sickos in any large group of people; not just a furry exclusive or anything. Pedos can be in any group: anime fandom, furry fandom, or someone who works at a grocery store or a church.
Porn will exist in any fandom. Humans are generaly highly sexual and will bring that with them where ever they go. Just let the idiots being public with it know that they are being idiots

Other than the messed-up minority, Furries Rock!

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:25 pm

agreed. Thanks Silverclaw

IndianaJones · Post by **IndianaJones** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:23 pm

*applause*

But!! I really "Hate" this website. http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Main_Page http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Furry

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:49 am

There's no point in discussing this any further. I've made my point..I don't want to force it on anyone. People generally know what's right and what's wrong. Best to just move on before this gets out of hand ( though I am very pleased to see this thread was discussed calmly and without any nastiness. )

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:45 am

IndianaJones wrote:*applause*

But!! I really "Hate" this website. http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Main_Page http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Furry

ED may be bad but I don't think it is an accurate source in any sense of the word on what people think of furries. ED seems like a the worst bits. I will be using it a bit for another thread though.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:15 am

Silent Hunter wrote:
IndianaJones wrote:*applause*

But!! I really "Hate" this website. http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Main_Page http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Furry
ED may be bad but I don't think it is an accurate source in any sense of the word on what people think of furries. ED seems like a the worst bits. I will be using it a bit for another thread though.

ED isn't around to be accurate. It's encyclopedia dramatica. It's around to be humorous and laugh at/exaggerate the drama of the Internet.

WereWolfBoy · Post by **WereWolfBoy** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:02 am

Can i kick his a** now or later for the anti furry guy
no body should talk like that unless they are offened by what some peoples intrests are.

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:27 am

The problem with furry fandom is that it is being taken too seriously. It is a FANdom, not a culture, way of life, state of mind, it is a fandom, straight and simple. I don't think the most people would have problems with the fandom if it stayed in those realms, but when you have people who begin to take things way too seriously by melding their fantasy world into the real world most folks are going to take notice, and unfortunately the negative aspects are the things that are going to come into the spotlight unfortunately.

Again, I use Star Wars fandom as an anology. You have fans and then you have fanatics. The fans appreciate the entertaiment value, the deep story, vast fantasy universe, and the occasional cosplay comic-con get together... The fanatics though want it to be real so bad that the fantasy world isn't enough for them. They want it to be real. They want EVERYBODY to accept it as a real entity, culture, identity, regarldess of how insane they appear: ergo the folks in London who want Jedi to be recognized as a legitimate religion. What an embarassment for George Lucas. He created great entertainment, and some people can't separate fact from fiction. A non-Star Wars fan can argue with a Star Wars fan about the pros and cons of the Star Wars universe, but if they dared argue with a fanatic, they would get zapped because you are now stepping on who they are, and destroying their pitiful little self deluded world.

As I've stated before, the furries that I met had that fanatical preception. When even the slightest criticism came up about their lifestyle, art, and whatever they went crazy and became angry, enfuriated that somebody didn't agree with them. In one instance I had a furry state that their was more truth in his fictional fursona than in the existance of Jesus Christ. Needless to say, I couldn't help but smirk, especially since I didn't say anything offensive to him. I critiqued a story he wrote, and it wasn't good. He couldn't take it.

Pariah hit it on the head, when she stated (in paraphrase) "Why can't the wakos leave us alone, and just let us have fun."

That is what it is all about, fun...

Some of the most talented artists I know come from the furry fandom crowd... people like Kuma, Solid Asp, Psycohound... all of whom, I've watched over the years grow and expand their abilities to cover a wide range of forms. I will continue to enjoy their works as long as they don't cross that crazy threshold.

Just remember, just like the "terms and conditions" forms you have to sign when creating an online account, state "For Entertainment Only" remember fandom is the same thing... entertainment only...

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:55 pm

No offense Alpha, but I think a lot of furries may appear high strung and hypersensitive to criticism, not because they take the fandom too seriously, but just because, to put it bluntly, we're sick of it.

How tiresome is furry bashing? So tiresome that even the people at SomethingAwful.com are sick of hearing it.

And it's not just exclusive to the fandom. Repeat topics happen at any online community (like the Pack, for example), and the more often they resurface, the less patience the veterans that have debated it to death in the past will have to deal with it, inevitably becoming, as Mike Reed calls them, howlers or a swarm.

Furry bashing is not only irritating, it's all old hat. That's why so few furs ever have the patience to put up with it anymore.

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:28 pm

Why even put up with it in the first place? Furry Bashers? So what if somebody strongly dislikes the fandom... who cares. It ain't like they are cursing your mother, father, religion... it is a fandom. It would be like being pissed off at somebody because they can't stand Star Wars, Star Trek, or LotR. It ain't their cup of tea... I certainly recieved negative press because I am a Christian and an avid reader of Harry Potter, but OMG I am not going to whine and throw a tussel because somebody completely freaks out over something stupid.

I'm sorry but the way some furries talk about it as if they are comparing their situation to that of Blacks, Jews, Women's sufferage... of which I find extremely stupid and self deluded. Some furries may get a lot of flack, and I will give you that, but I've never heard of people getting mistreated, murdered, lynched, and tormented because they dressed up in a fuzzy wolf outfit. This isn't persecution.

Firstly very few Americans are aware that furries actually exist. You could probably poll 100 people at random and they would probably look at you and say, "What thehell is that?" Secondly of the folks that know of furries, only a small minority go out of their way to make furry lives less floofy.

My point is this... If somebody is being a jerk (the world is full of them) why waist your breath online, offline, debating with them. There is no point at all, and this goes with ANY subject. The truth is, people who argue for the sake of arguing aren't looking for education, but a fight, and so anything you say will just roll over their head and they will be right back at it tomorrow. In short ignore those who are being stupid, and just enjoy yourself.

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:13 pm

Well, I've been on the recieving end of bashing where it turned into assault just because I was wearing a fursuit at the fair. That's what I'm sick of.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:42 pm

alphanubilus wrote:I certainly recieved negative press because I am a Christian and an avid reader of Harry Potter, but OMG I am not going to whine and throw a tussel because somebody completely freaks out over something stupid.

You might not have whined, but I guarantee you would have eventually exploded into a fit of rage if a hundred different people gave you the exact same crap within less than a week.

My point is that everyone's got a breaking point. Even the most passive fur and the most casual fan will eventually tire of all the spamming, the flaming, the misinformation, the what-have-you, will tire of ignoring it or trying to discuss things civilly with people who clearly don't, and eventually will reach a point where they get so sick of it that the well thought responses go out the window in exchange for "STFU!!!"

Furry haters are like Jack Thompson. His end of the "violent video games" debate has already been buried several times over by the opposition, and yet he keeps coming back with the exact same crap, almost like he has a reset button. Same with furry bashers; I've got a response for virtually every anti-furry statement that could ever possibly be made and have logically buried countless angsty teen suburbanites that thought they were the next Jesus [beep]in' Christ, and yet they keep popping up all over the place. It's tiresome.

And while it's true that (to the best of my knowledge) nobody has ever been killed for being a fur, I have encountered at least a handful of people that have been disowned, threatened and/or knocked the crap out of for being furs. Just because there hasn't been a furry Matthew Shepard yet doesn't mean there never will be.

WerewolfKeeper3 · Post by **WerewolfKeeper3** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:43 pm

Now, i did leave here, but this issue i did wnat to comment on. just didn't know when.

I agree whole heartedly with Terestas.
I hate that humans think they have the right to tell someone else that what they're doing is wrong, if it doesn't hurt anyone. I would actually like to meet the furries on these boards, cause they seem like really nice, interesting people. Then again, i'm 'weird' according to the rest of the world. Not that i mind or anything.

alphanubilus · Post by **alphanubilus** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:44 pm

Terastas wrote:
alphanubilus wrote:I certainly recieved negative press because I am a Christian and an avid reader of Harry Potter, but OMG I am not going to whine and throw a tussel because somebody completely freaks out over something stupid.
You might not have whined, but I guarantee you would have eventually exploded into a fit of rage if a hundred different people gave you the exact same crap within less than a week.

My point is that everyone's got a breaking point. Even the most passive fur and the most casual fan will eventually tire of all the spamming, the flaming, the misinformation, the what-have-you, will tire of ignoring it or trying to discuss things civilly with people who clearly don't, and eventually will reach a point where they get so sick of it that the well thought responses go out the window in exchange for "STFU!!!"

Furry haters are like Jack Thompson. His end of the "violent video games" debate has already been buried several times over by the opposition, and yet he keeps coming back with the exact same crap, almost like he has a reset button. Same with furry bashers; I've got a response for virtually every anti-furry statement that could ever possibly be made and have logically buried countless angsty teen suburbanites that thought they were the next Jesus [beep]in' Christ, and yet they keep popping up all over the place. It's tiresome.

And while it's true that (to the best of my knowledge) nobody has ever been killed for being a fur, I have encountered at least a handful of people that have been disowned, threatened and/or knocked the crap out of for being furs. Just because there hasn't been a furry Matthew Shepard yet doesn't mean there never will be.

Disowned for being a fur, or disowned for being gay? I seriously doubt anybody would get disowned just for the account of cosplay. If a person does then that doesn't speak well of their families in the first place.

Also it is commonly agreed upon in the civilized world that Jack Thompson and his twin Pat Robinson have issues...

Silent Hunter · Post by **Silent Hunter** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:18 pm

By request, can I have this thread locked please? It serves its purpose and is no longer needed to be up.