Freedom-loving Republicans

[PariahPoet]

I told you I'm not here to debate. I am not interested in getting into a pissing match with you.

I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change yours so let's move on.

[Terastas]

No offense Pariah, but if you're not here to debate and not interested in politics, why did you take the time to click, read and comment on a political thread? Even if it did start off as just a joke thread, it's still political in nature.

So what's your excuse Pariah? Is this you being a hypocrite, or is this you trying to weasel your way out of the discussion now that your comments are backfiring on you?

It's amazing what a political thread can do. I used to think Pariah was intelligent, insightful and considerate to her fellow man, but this thread alone proved I was wrong on all three accounts.

And yes Pariah, I'm aware that there's no changing your mind. I can figure out for myself why you couldn't give a quarter of a crap about me now, but tell me, what's your excuse to the rest of the pack? The entire world is watching this election; the fate of the U.S. economy will reflect on the world economy. So really Pariah, I want to hear it: What's your excuse? Why can't you give a damn about anyone and everyone around you, and what did the people who do give a damn ever do to you to be worthy of such resentment?

EDIT: Typos corrected.

[Wselfwulf]

You trolling is getting old Terastas. Practice some courtesy. I may have more common ground with you than a conservative but hyperbole, immature stereotypes and presumptuousness will bring no one to your side.

[Anubis]

wow...

I'm republican in a sea of dems. No wonder you all hate me...

[Midnight]

.

[Spongy]

I haven't looked into the candidates enough to make a decision. Not that it really matters, though. I can't vote. (Not a US citizen, or 18).

As for political orientation... I don't have one. Politics is too complex for me to get involved in. I think Sweden has something like 6 major political parties currently involved in the Parliament of Sweden (Riksdag). Plus tons more that are constantly trying to get votes. There are just too many different ideals to keep track of for me to care.

That's a bit of a contrast from the two major parties in the United States. (I may be wrong on this. Like I stated, I don't care much for politics.)

Anubis, just because we don't agree with you dun mean we hate you.

(On a side note... Before this turns into a war, maybe keep nasties to yourself, or a PM?)

I will say this, from the videos I've seen of Palin, and what I've read...she scares the crap out of me. I can't see her going up against, say, China and it going well. Same goes for following up on a disaster of any kind.

There. I gave my two cents. Let's hope I don't end up regretting posting.

[Silent Hunter]

It's not what I'm being fed but more like a hunger. 'Man's Nature' as you cite is what I take to be the propensity for freedom. But even if I take your account of man's nature (which is in dire need of some empirical backing) I think it then becomes quite necessary to argue against it.
I do not really think you are accepting anything blindly and am sure you have thought about it to some extent. And I concede that for all my posturing this representative democracy (if I dare call it that at the moment) may be the most viable and fair system (again I really hope not). My idea is that if you simply cease believing alternatives are possible, but they are, you have fashioned a mental cage for yourself. If you were simply say 'but they are not' you miss the point of entertaining an idea just to test your moors every now and then and make sure you stay out of cycles of control.
If there's one thing I'm to guess human nature won't let you achieve? It's a smart populace.

What alternatives would be any better then? Dicatorship where a dicate could drive a country into the ground and kill so many without a chance of uprising? A Juntra where the country is ruled by a military? Tribes scattered around fighting for survival? Communisim, the greatest political pipe dream there ever was? You seem to think I beleive the democratic system is perfect but I know its not in plain view. I am not in a metal cage, I am just weighing up the systems and realising the facts. Backing? Its plain to see that humans sort themselves into an order like a pyramind. There is always an alpha, a pecking order. You see it in schools, prisons, work, social orders, goverment and you can not just toss that off as some kind of crazy crackpot theory. A truely smart populace probably can not be kept up but its worth a shot, you can't' have TOO much of an education and if the bar raises slighty then thats its work done.

You trolling is getting old Terastas. Practice some courtesy. I may have more common ground with you than a conservative but hyperbole, immature stereotypes and presumptuousness will bring no one to your side.

The most he is really doing is just trying to keep a dicussion up. PP just kind of walked in, flaunted her opinion and just left again denying to discuss why. Thats like me walking into some kind of political debate and shouting my opinion and walking out again. It does not lend to discussion and was therefore a bit pointless. Ter does need to calm down but I doubt he is flaming. He just needs the chill pill. Though I doubt its worth him perusing this route.

Just thank your lucky stars that you've got a clear-cut choice. We've got an election four days after yours, and the choice is between an incumbent (tired) and a challenger (as dodgy as a three dollar note) without much to differentiate them otherwise.

Not trying to attack you Midnight but I doubt they are debating that. They debating policy and that is fine. Its going to affect a country and their lives and their views should be allowed (though I think trying to press PP on this is like getting blood from a stone, her mind is made up). Your argument seems to be: "Stop complaining and be lucky with what you got" which imo does not work with political discussions. I could have gotten it totally wrong though.

I'm republican in a sea of dems.

E're ganna cut ya up and #'erve you on a plate. Well I don't hate you, I am not even a Dem really as I am from the UK.


I think we all need to calm down, I am against locking this thread as it is interesting but its getting a bit tense. Calming down is good.

[PariahPoet]

It's amazing what a political thread can do. I used to think Pariah was an intelligent, insightful and considerate to his fellow man, but this thread alone proved I was wrong on all three accounts.

I'm female.


Anubis- Matt and I are generally conservative too.

[PariahPoet]

PP just kind of walked in, flaunted her opinion and just left again denying to discuss why.

I believe what I do. I said I hate both candidates and I do. I have a right to state my opinions without having to justify myself to anyone. Had I attempted to change anyone else's opinions that would be different, but I did not. I am perfectly comfortable knowing that plenty of people disagree with me and I don't feel the need to change them, thus I do not feel the need to debate, so I don't. All I ask is to be granted the same respect that I give everyone else. People are going to believe what they do, just deal with it and move on.

And I think you meant I declined to discuss why. Denying would mean I went back on what I said, which I do not.

[Terastas]

wow...

I'm republican in a sea of dems. No wonder you all hate me...

Just for the record, I don't hate Republicans. I despise the current Republican party, the people that lie, nitpick and hatemonger on their behalf, and the voters that recognize it for the B.S. that it is but applaud it anyway. But I don't hate the entire Republican philosophy and anyone that abides by it as a whole.

It may be confusing since, after eight years of Bush, the entire Republican party has been almost completely purged of anyone with a political mind, leaving the party now dominated by businessmen with a minority of religious psychopaths. With the possible exception of Chuck Hagel, all of the republicans I ever admired are either dead, out of office or are declared Independents now.

So while I can't speak for everyone, I personally don't hate you just for being a republican, and I'm sorry you thought that anyone here did.

Huh? The PariahPoet you've described isn't the PariahPoet I've got to know here over the last couple of years... and, more to the point, isn't the PariahPoet I've seen in this discussion either.

It isn't the Pariah I've known for years either. But she still posted "Politics suck. I don't care. I'm not here to debate" in a thread that is clearly political. That's not something the Pariah I thought I knew would have done, nor are these the sentiments I would have expected from her.

But for all intents and purposes, it's the Pariah in this thread that I'm addressing right now, and that's the Pariah that apparently doesn't think anything affects her in any way and therefore doesn't give a care in the world. Democracy only works when the people care enough about it, so hey, excuse me for caring.

[PariahPoet]

Stop accusing me of not caring. I do care. I do not find either candidate suitable for the presidency. That is why I am voting a write in. No, it may not help decide who gets in, but I will not vote for someone I do not support. I will continue to vote in this manner until either political party offers a decent candidate.

[Werewolf Warrior]

well presidents cant promise everything, not even the ones running for president. however who ever is doing well in the polls thats who I'll vote for.

[Spongy]

well presidents cant promise everything, not even the ones running for president. however who ever is doing well in the polls thats who I'll vote for.

That doesn't really work though, does it.

Think about it. If everyone did what you do, then we would have one of two situations:
1. No one would vote because no one would be ahead in the polls because no one has voted yet.
2. Extremely corrupt voting.

If you're going to vote, vote for the one you believe in. Don't vote for the hell of voting for whoever. If you're going to do that, just abstain.

By the way, how can you even vote? You can't. Your profile says you are 17. I'm assuming you live in the United States. Unless you are lying about your age, that is.

[Werewolf Warrior]

I dont lie about my age, plus as i fogot to add to the second post to this which i know your going to get annoyed about. "thats if im 18" thats what I forgot

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

You know. I am not pointing any fingers, but I am ashamed that after all these countless topics of politics that you people STILL can not be adult. You know who you are so I am not even going to say it. If your in denial of what is actually going on that is your problem. Again this is not siding with anyone. We are all adults here so I am going to talk to you as one. GROW UP!!! I might be an admin and alot of you have all known me for years on here so I am not going to sugar coat anything. I refuse to let this forum go to hell because of a silly joke. You all need to sit back and think about what you said. Why can we all not be open to opinions? It's called being openminded. From what I am seeing nothing, but closeminded folks here.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

I decided that we'll do the 3 strike your out deal as Kaebora once did for another thread. Lets please try to keep it cool folks

[Werewolf Warrior]

I agree.

so lets agree to disagree. if you know what i mean.

[PariahPoet]

Sounds good to me. Everyone has a valid opinion.

[Aki]

wow...

I'm republican in a sea of dems. No wonder you all hate me...

Nah, you're cool and I don't judge folks by political parties, myself.

I'm independent anyways, not a dem. Voting for whomever catches my fancy sounded like a good idea to me.

Plus it's fun to be the "swing vote" heh.

[Kaebora]

I decided that we'll do the 3 strike your out deal as Kaebora once did for another thread. Lets please try to keep it cool folks

Whatever system you feel works best for the situation. Politics always seems to light fires here.

Note to everyone. If you can't laugh at yourself (or your political party), I suggest you don't post responses to jokes.

I used to be a Republican. After the recient world events I'm just one of those undecided ones now, and I refuse to say who I'm voting for. I still find the joke page to be funny.

[Wselfwulf]

I apologize if everyone is over it but I enjoy repartee and I haven't been on in a while. so:

Yes calming down is good but difficult when people challenge each others ideas.

What alternatives would be any better then? Dicatorship where a dicate could drive a country into the ground and kill so many without a chance of uprising?

If everyone disagreed with this dictator, and this dictator killed everyone who disagreed with him, who would he have left to dictate? That sort of end would appeal to a sociopath/murderer, not a megalomaniac or would-be despot. At worst, that would happen in third world countries where there is minimal military legislation and a class divide between them and the basic citizen. Surely not in a typical western country? Although I don't see the problem as I do not suggest that as an alternative.

A Juntra where the country is ruled by a military? Tribes scattered around fighting for survival? Communisim, the greatest political pipe dream there ever was?

Same issues, I think. There is no scale with democracy on the one end and tyannical military on the other. Nor does communism allow any great majority to get any less screwed over by privatised businesses and 'wealth distribution'. So I am not suggesting that.

You seem to think I beleive the democratic system is perfect but I know its not in plain view.

I appreciate your insight then. My intuition is that once we smooth out the issues with our system it will cease to be representative democracy. But of course those that 'represent' us seem to prefer many wrinkles left in place no matter the party.

you can not just toss that off as some kind of crazy crackpot theory

Yes, yes I didn't mean to say that people did not act that way. I've read plenty of Zimbardo. My response to that is twofold. It is not empirically backed that hierarchy is the default and inevitable stance of modern man, it is a correlate of society and instinct. Secondly, supposing it is does not mean it is desirable or a good foundation for a political system. No one can rule you unless you give them your consent, doesn't the saying go? And in times of voting, consent is a funny thing. Even though I didn't agree to it, majority rules me and the majority is stupid, as the bell curve goes.

A truely smart populace probably can not be kept up but its worth a shot

You have my full agreement on that one.

The most he is really doing is just trying to keep a dicussion up

That is a poor way to do it.

Ultimately I do not want to abolish the engines of social change, just their catalysts. Politicians do not seem to sit in their office and think up benevolent policies, but how to best spend tax dollars on war machines and profligate slander campaigns while schools, hospitals and research institutions beg for revenue. They pursue localized and often personal agendas that have little to do with maintaining peace in a country. The promises sound sweet, they always do. They play upon fears and patriotism to keep you backing them. They lead us on issues where leadership is not necessary, just support to get things done and the facts that convince us to do it.

I am sure you are not blind to the issues of exploitative or deceptive government, but how do you suggest these problems are solved? You might suggest greater watchdog organizations, more ability to protest and engage in activist activities, or the ability to dismiss a representative from office if they break election promises. But (seeing as though things like consumer watchdog organizations ultimately look up to the government) if this is achievable it makes the need for political parties arbitrary. More emphasis placed upon finding the right action to be taken, rather than whether or not it will be allowed to occur or picking the best lesser of two evils.

[Gevaudan]

As a true patriot, I say that Barack Obama’s proposal to raise the tax rate on the top income bracket from 35% to 39% is a Socialist policy that must be stopped. We can’t let this dirty Commie into the White House and allow him to redistribute the wealth. However, upon further investigation, I have found that most of our so-called “American” politicians who have entered the highest positions of power in our government and political philosophy were nothing but a bunch of Bolshevik subversives.

Let’s start at the root of it all: Adam Smith. This economic crackpot explicitly wrote that it was reasonable for the wealthy to pay higher taxes than the poor. So all along the founder of capitalism, who died 28 years before Karl Marx was born, was a dirty Socialist.

Guess what Nixon’s top tax bracket was? 70%. There was a particular commie-hating congressman from California in the 1950’s who wanted to get his hands on this pinko.

Eisenhower was one of the worst. With a Republican congress, Eisenhower’s "spread-the-wealth" presidency held our proud country captive under a 91% top tax rate. Welcome to the collective, Ike.

Clinton’s anti-American regime upheld the tax rate for the top bracket at the same 39% that Obama is proposing. This corrupt Communist government caused America to suffer through the longest economic expansion in its history.

And now we come to the real traitor to our values, John McCain. He seems pretty American, right? Wrong. In 2001, he voted against Bush’s proposed 35% top tax rate, in favor of keeping it at Clinton’s 39%. He actually defended this “progressive tax system”, denying claims that it was Socialism: “When you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.”

But wait, there’s more! Many “Americans” living among us true patriots also support this Communist progressive tax system! I say we should purge these Bolsheviks from the motherland and ship them off to gulags in Alaska! These undesirables must be stopped at all costs to ensure pro-American values stay in America! LONG LIVE THE MOTHERLAND!

[/sarcasm]