Obama Won!

[Wselfwulf]

The special interest groups who funded his campaign, and the people who voted him in.

[Uniform Two Six]

He has some past history with the nuclear industry, yes, but the push for alternative energy is more a result of the rising cost of fuel, the bad economy, the conflict in the Middle East, and the environment snowballed together in one big issue. More so, he has placed much more emphasis on solar and wind, not the nuclear industry he has previous ties to, so his alternative energy stance should hardly be attributed to some of his previous associations.

There's speculation that John Kerry may also be on the short list for Secretary of State; either he or Richardson would be a good fit I think (if I could vote, it'd be for Richardson, but I'll take either).

And while we're on that subject, all that stuff about how we need to be doing nuclear stuff like the French isn't just something they made up either. The French really have themselves the right idea. They process the waste into a relatively stable glass material and can store it quite safely. It's more expensive than the let's-just-dump-it-in-the-holding-pond method we use here in the states, but is better for the environment, and cheaper in the long run to boot.
Obama has the right idea there.

Richardson as SecState *drool*... yeah, that'd be awesome. Heck, I'd be thrilled to see him come back as Energy Secretary. He was my number one pick for president back in the primaries (or would have been if I could've have voted in the Democrats' primary).

[Kaebora]

I know I'm gonna be flamed for this but i don't care!!

Obama winning the election is nothing to be excited about.

The people he allied with and/or associated him self with freaking scares me like the domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, and the racist reverend of his.

His socialist agenda is gonna destroy our already fragile economy!

I just don't like the man, period! I just hope the man gets >Bleep!<, or impeached! If he gets elected then I'm moving out of the US for good! I lost hope in the nation when we elected a member marx fan club as president.

I could go on, but i don't have the energy or the patience right now.

First of all, you've earned yourself a warning. So that's over and done with.

Second, this info you have is all slander that was produced by the McCain campaign, making it clear that you did no research outside of watching and reading campaign ads. Purely ignorance, which is what the McCain campaign had been hopeing for. All of it is half-truths, and I wouldn't have voted for Obama if I hadn't done my own research on this stuff. I will explain:

Bill Ayers is on the Education committee in the city of Chicago, and is a Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar at University of Illinois. He has served his time for his crimes, and often comments about his regrets. To squelch some of the B.S. that's going around, this statement was released by the Washington Post: [Obama spokesman Bill Burton released a statement from the senator about the relationship between the two: "Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous."] The Dallas News reported that the two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met 12 times. Since 2002, there has been little linking Obama and Ayers. You may as well accuse everyone in the Woods Fund of Chicago board of cooperating with a terrorist. And as I understand it, for a man of 60 years Bill is quite charasmatic. At least these days he is doing a lot of good for the community.

The socialist remarks are in regards to Obama's tax policies. In a nutshell, its giving tax cuts to lower-class families and independant businesses, while retaining the taxes on families that are more economically stable. If taxes are socialist, then we've been a socialist nation since the beginning. Its like they say, "there's two things you can always count on. Death, and taxes."

To be honest, either candidate would have done a lot of good to fix the economy, and both would have taken steps to end the Iraq occupation. I only felt that Obama was a bit more in tune with the average american, and has a much stronger and experianced cabinet. That, and the thought of Palin in the Vice Presidency made me cringe. My research on her turned up a lot of skeletons in her closet.

Now, everyone play nice. And if you're going to start a debate... keep it civil and DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Edit:
I know this was somewhat dropped and done some days ago (forgot to check dates before) but I thought these facts would be important to know. It's no insult to Anubis, but there's nothing wrong with being informative to sway an opinion or two, and I like to justify why I voted Democrat for the first time. Even in my workplace, I did change the minds of a few people. It's about ignoring the campaign slander and looking at each candidate on your own.

[Lupin]

Second, this info you have is all slander that was produced by the McCain campaign, making it clear that you did no research outside of watching and reading campaign ads. Purely ignorance, which is what the McCain campaign had been hopeing for. All of it is half-truths, and I wouldn't have voted for Obama if I hadn't done my own research on this stuff. I will explain:

Bill Ayers is on the Education committee in the city of Chicago, and is a Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar at University of Illinois.

I'm not sure why McCain brought this up, considering that he himself held a fundraiser at the house of G. Gordon Lidddy, who was convicted for conspiracy, burglary, and illegal wiretapping as a part of Watergate.

Glass houses and stones and all that jazz.

[Silent Hunter]

Goonight, and good luck America.
We`ll all be needing it.
God Bless America.

-Z

Zombie, you contribute little and do not defend your points, that is a poor reflection upon you character.

Obama winning the election is nothing to be excited about.

He is a source of hope even if he may screw us over. After years of the failings of Bush he has the chance to put things right.

The people he allied with and/or associated him self with freaking scares me like the domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, and the racist reverend of his

A person who was 8 when it occured and another whose comments he condemmed.

His socialist agenda is gonna destroy our already fragile economy!

So you have just ran off crying and not bothered to take heed from four different posters on why that statment is a three tier cake of manure.

I just don't like the man, period! I just hope the man gets >Bleep!<, or impeached! If he gets elected then I'm moving out of the US for good! I lost hope in the nation when we elected a member marx fan club as president.

Oh good god not the "Whaahh my country is bad so I am moving out" statment that people on the other party be it Democrat or Republican always seem to say. Please for your sake Anubis get a grip of yourself. You are not getting any better since what you said last time and its really making you look bad as I said. Whats the point of running away from a country? Seriously is that even practical for you?

Oh and member of the Marx fan club? Are you even going to bother to look up what socialsm is?

Also, sorry sweet cheecks but he is unlikley to get that. Not with his sensible policies and mind as well as a Democratic majority.

I am really dissapointed, I thought people would listen but no.

Ellen Degeneres, for letting him dance on national Television.

YOUR WINNER OF THE THREAD!

[Searif]

For all of those that think Obama is socialist, I think you have been believing McCain's ads a bit too much, Obama's policies are sometimes similar to socialism, but the democratic policies outweigh them.

[Silent Hunter]

What is so bad about certain socialist policies anyway? I know Communism flat out fails to work like it should on paper but what is wrong with nationlising certain key industries like Energy, Healthcare and certain transport services? It would allow a free market yet make sure those vital industries are kept safe from corperations and bad service as you can swiftly go to the goverment if something is actually wrong rather then have to get some idiotic regulation law or go at once company at a time.

I doubt anyone is asking for a USSA but simply a more friendly USA for the poor. A USA for those who fear healthcare bills or have been made redundent due to job losses or just want an easier time paying the pills. Is that not a noble cause?

[Kaebora]

Lets not have any more personal attacks. I don't mind some finely detailed debating as long as it stays friendly. We all went into this politcal race with ignorance, but with some conversation and reading, anyone can have a carefully decided opinion that wont cause more painfully violent reading. Backing up opinions with facts always helps.

Well, in any case... lets just give this thread STRIKE ONE. Live and learn.

[Gevaudan]

Now, everyone play nice. And if you're going to start a debate... keep it civil and DO YOUR RESEARCH!

I'm not quite sure we should be that open debates on here. The whole point of a debate is to prove your point, and internet debates usually evolve into something where not even the spectators can tell what the argument's about. I agree with you, Kaebora, but I just wonder how realistically that rule will be followed. Maybe with the right enforcement...

On another note, yes, do your research, but make sure it's unbiased! Check your sources, then check them again, and then a third time. The more objective it is, the harder it is to disprove.

[MattSullivan]

The reason we don't like socialism is because many people see the poor as byproducts of laziness. And lets face it, SOME people ARE. EVERYONE knows certain people who just don't get off their a**, whine instead of trying to BETTER themselves or their situation, and expect Uncle Sam to take care of them forever.

On the other hand there are also GENUINELY poor people who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

Point is, if I work hard and make a lot of money, I really don't think I should be taxed for my accomplishments. In a way Obama WILL be punishing the rich. And a lot of people will see it as "justified" because they see rich people as evil. ( Don't deny it, those of you who have thought this ) And because there IS such a disproportional sum between the rich and poor it makes it seem like the righteous thing to do in the eyes of the poor.

Supporters of Socialism cry "equality for everyone!" Which SOUNDS nice. But if I bust MY a**, and the guy next door sits around and plays XBOX all day, then hey, that guy DESERVES to be poor and I deserve to be wealthy. Why the hell should he be compensated equally when he does NOTHING but become a ward of the state and an even BIGGER burden to the taxpayers? I live in California, the most taxed state in the US. Here, they tax the ever loving CRAp out of you. I DON'T...NEED...MORE...TAXES. A lot of you are scraping by because we pay exorbitant taxes on EVERYTHING. More than we SHOULD. But that's not the only reason people are struggling. NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO LIVE WITHIN THEIR MEANS anymore. They think a BIGGER house...a BIGGER car.. these are the things I have to have, and I have to have it NOW. Personally, I blame MTV CRIBS for making an entire generation try to imitate how the uber-wealthy live their lives. No seriously...it's that bullshit culture of MATERIALISM ( not capitalism, don't confuse the two ) ...materialism...that makes people spend EVERY CENT on things they don't need and because of it...when it comes time to pay the bills those poelpe are royally screwed. So to the uninformed and the lazy, socialism seems like the fair and sensible way to make everyone equal.

...I wanted Obama to Win because no matter HOW much he taxes us, at least he wants to stop an unjust war that is costing us BILLIONS every month so i'm hoping it will all just balance itself out.

But just because he won, it doesn't mean I'm going to be happy. I have major gripes with 50% of his policies.

[Kaebora]

I mostly agree with you there, Matt. There are some policies out there that make it easier to slack off in poverty. I have friends that are still doing it with Social Security, and it does make me feel bitter that they wont better themselves and make a living. However, I have read (in my company's legal documents no less) that the Social Security Administration is going to be making it harder for people to abuse the system in these next couple of years. Medical examinations by designated doctors for disability confirmation, and proof of application filings for the reciently unemployed are among some new measures they are planning on implimenting.

[Pause]

I just paused to talk to Ms. Davis, the Service Coordinator Supervisor of RCI Inc., and she is the one that approves the use of Social Security and DVR (Division of Vocational Rehabilitation) funds. She says that the medical examination requirements have already gone into effect, and the unemployment benifits are being strengthened in the next few months with follow-up requirements to make sure people are actually job hunting. Well, there you have it. Obama's policies are in regards to healthcare, and tax reductions for those that have economic crisis (which means less spending for the poverty stricken), but he isn't exactly approving handing out money like Social Security is. At least we can rest assured that our couch potato friends will soon be forced into working for a living.

I'm so lucky to be able to post here during work. XD

[Terastas]

I'm not sure why McCain brought this up, considering that he himself held a fundraiser at the house of G. Gordon Lidddy, who was convicted for conspiracy, burglary, and illegal wiretapping as a part of Watergate.

He and Palin also made it no secret that they were (not had been, were) working under the advisory of Henry Kissinger. That guy gives me the willies.

I can also see where Matt is coming from regarding socialism. Mind you, he's right that absolute socialism doesn't work, but. . .

Well, capitalism does have its limits. If its a product that is absolutely necessary to the survival of its consumers and no other companies may provide it, what you're essentially left with is blackmail. That's what happened with the insurance and pharmaceutical companies; they knew we couldn't live without their services, so they jacked up their prices as much as possible.

Unrestricted capitalism only works in industries that provide a service or product an individual may turn down if he has to. Health care is one such industry that will require at least some level of government control, and as we've just now learned, banking is another.

Besides, if government-controlled anything counts as socialism, we're already socialists; we have public transportation and the U.S. Postal service. Why not banking and health care while we're at it? The government doesn't have to completely take over the crucial industries (UPS and FedEx still seem to be doing well), just compete so to hold the other companies to a standard (the hot soup / lobster with truffles comparison I made earlier).

So while I understand and (*gasp*) agree with Matt's sentiments, I think at least some elements of socialism in the most crucial markets are necessary. Lord knows I wish there had been a literal Bank of America right now, then maybe Fannie and Freddy could have gone under without dragging the entire country down with them.

[Silent Hunter]

Thats what I mean. I am not saying that we need to give hand outs with no regulation on whether that person is actually looking for a job. I am saying that certain areas like healthcare should not be at the whim of the free market. I mean look how many people are uninsured. Also:

http://works.bepress.com/christopher_robertson/2/

In recent years, there has been national alarm about the rising rate of home foreclosures, which now strike one in every 92 households in America and which contribute to even broader macroeconomic effects. The “standard account” of home foreclosure attributes this spike to loose lending practices, irresponsible borrowers, a flat real estate market, and rising interest rates. Based on our study of homeowners going through foreclosures in four states, we find that the standard account fails to represent the facts and thus makes a poor guide for policy. In contrast, we find that half of all foreclosures have medical causes, and we estimate that medical crises put 1.5 million Americans in jeopardy of losing their homes last year.

Half of all respondents (49%) indicated that their foreclosure was caused in part by a medical problem, including illness or injuries (32%), unmanageable medical bills (23%), lost work due to a medical problem (27%), or caring for sick family members (14%). We also examined objective indicia of medical disruptions in the previous two years, including those respondents paying more than $2,000 of medical bills out of pocket (37%), those losing two or more weeks of work because of injury or illness (30%), those currently disabled and unable to work (8%), and those who used their home equity to pay medical bills (13%). Altogether, seven in ten respondents (69%) reported at least one of these factors.

If these findings can be replicated in more comprehensive studies, they will suggest critical policy reforms. We lay out one approach, focusing on an insurance-model, which would help homeowners bridge temporary gaps caused by medical crises. We also present a legal proposal for staying foreclosure proceedings during verifiable medical crises, as a way to protect homeowners and to minimize the negative externalities of foreclosure.
Suggested Citation

Now yes it has mentioned living beyond your means which is a bad habit many of picked and I feel many need to kill if the US is going to get out of this fast yet 49% due to Medical reasons is horrifying. Thats why its bad to let it be in the free market. Some can't afford it. What then? They be faced with debts that were really not their fualt all their life? How is that fair? In a way its kind of like social darwinsm. The weak can not get access to good healthcare or can not afford it and end up dying younger and eariler while the rich get the best care they need. Now its hard to argue that giving money into a healthcare system is a bad thing. Europe and Canada shows it can be done.

Oh and the tax breaks are not laziness either. Funnily enough how would it be? You are getting taxed a bit less which is good as we are all getting tight on money yet its not a hand out and we would not last without jobs. Its just proggressive taxing and reforms. Again, European countries do it. Are they all socialst hell holes?

[Kaebora]

As we can plainly tell, all this socialist talk is just exaggerated campaign slander anyways. I've wanted us to have a free healthcare system since, ever. Personally, if I can afford private health care, even if government funded HC is availible, I'd go with paying the extra penny. Canada's government paid doctors have a reputation for not being as reliable as the private sector. I currently pay monthly to be in a local healthcare system, and it works fine for me.

[Anubis]

Silent Hunter,

You are really starting to piss me off! It's not that you are a democrate, that I disagree with you, but you are attacking who don't agree with you! I was ready to forgive your ealier statements, thinking it was like my first post; writtn in the passion of the moment. This one is out of the blue, and unprovocted. It's like you went out of your way to write it, to start something up.

Oh good god not the "Whaahh my country is bad so I am moving out" statment that people on the other party be it Democrat or Republican always seem to say. Please for your sake Anubis get a grip of yourself. You are not getting any better since what you said last time and its really making you look bad as I said. Whats the point of running away from a country? Seriously is that even practical for you?

Oh and member of the Marx fan club? Are you even going to bother to look up what socialsm is?

Also, sorry sweet cheecks but he is unlikley to get that. Not with his sensible policies and mind as well as a Democratic majority.

I am really dissapointed, I thought people would listen but no.

The reason why I said Obama was a socialist, because he gonna take the taxes from binesses and the "rich" and give them to people who don't really need to be on welfare in the first place. Also that first comment I made, yeah, you already responded to that post, and I already apologised for it several times already. If you are gonna attack me do it through some other way that's not repetitve, and that's not already beaten into a bloody pulp.

BTW, I was trying not make the situation worse. I've already gotten a warning from Kaebora, but you just had to pull this out of me.

So you have just ran off crying and not bothered to take heed from four different posters on why that statment is a three tier cake of manure.

Why wont you grow up you condesending a** hole.

A person who was 8 when it occured and another whose comments he condemmed.

Really, does my age or when I was born is really a factor here? I'm twenty years old, don't you think I old enough understand polotics? Also Why not being born or a child at the time unvalidates my opinion?

Zombie, you contribute little and do not defend your points, that is a poor reflection upon you character.

I doubt Zombie's character is any of your buisness, or something to bring up in a debate. He doesn't have to respond to your or anyone's comments. besides he probably didn't want to be attacked by some one like you.

Also I would Like to add you were attacking me for standing up in what I believe in, yet you attack zombie for not standing up... Hmmmm... can any one say hippocrite?

----------

STOP ATTACKING ME AND OTHER PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THEM!

Really! If you don't like what i'm saying, rather than attacking me. You could be polite and civil and explain to why you don't agree with me, and if you don't have a polite and civil rebutle, then shut your trap! Has your mother ever taught you if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all?

If you don't think you're attacking me, take a good look at your posts.

To the mods, I'm sorry for this flame but i'm not going to sit here while this guy keeps being a little fascist and keeps attacking me.

[Kaebora]

[Deleted my response to Anubis and Silent Hunter.]
Quite simply, if it's offensive in any way, DON'T POST IT!!!!!

I will end this thread with one final thought. I dislike how uninformed a lot of people are regarding the candidates, but I mostly blame the campaign slander that both political parties were using. Just about all of it was lies or exaggerations, Obama and McCain alike. It's one of the biggest circus acts of politcal campaign history. I haven't seen more violent debating over an election since.

Can we please lay off the politics for awhile?
And now... here's a wolf with a duckie on his head...